I think the jury is still out for The Suns. I cant truly judge after a week.
The experiment hasnt gelled yet.
They werent gonna make the WC finals w/ Marion in the first place.
you guys forget last year they came one dirty horry play away from the beating the spurs and possibly winning the championship. if stoudamire hadn't been suspended game 6 they would have won it (without him they lost by 2 in overtime) and would have won the series.
Here's the part of the SF Chronicle piece that was about the Marion trade.
Give Phoenix a break on deal: Marion had to go
Bruce Jenkins
Sunday, February 10, 2008 Shaquille O'Neal acknowledges fans after being introduced...
(02-09) 18:18 PST -- In attempting to digest the Phoenix Suns' acquisition of Shaquille O'Neal, fans need to realize that this up-tempo, wildly entertaining team was already doomed - at least in their own minds. Shawn Marion had given up on them, and management had no choice but to make it a mutual agreement.
The Suns' only chance to win an NBA title, in any season, was to have its roster 100 percent behind the program. That never really happened. They reached their talented peak during the 2005 playoffs, when they had the explosive Joe Johnson on the floor with Marion, Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire, who shockingly won his personal duel with Tim Duncan to the tune of 41, 37, 34, 31 and 42 points in a five-game loss to San Antonio in the conference finals.
The problem turned out to be Johnson, who missed the first two games of that series because of injury, then figured he wasn't a big enough star in the Suns' system. Johnson went to Atlanta, where he will remain in obscurity indefinitely, and as Stephen Jackson can tell you, it can be a long road back. (Jackson was an integral part of San Antonio's 2003 title, averaging 12.8 points during the playoff run, then inexplicably signed as a free agent with Atlanta and dropped right off the map.)
Marion's case was even more disappointing to the Suns' fans, because he was their highest-paid player and fully showcased as one of the league's most exciting, versatile, influential stars. But he could not accept being No. 3 in the public-relations arena to Nash and Stoudemire. "Around here," Marion once said, "it's always Steve this and Amare that."
As Sports Illustrated's Jack McCallum wrote in ":07 Seconds or Less," his incisive book about the 2005-06 Suns, "Marion lives in a perpetual state of fear that he is being overlooked, underrespected, ignored, dissed, persecuted, singled out, patronized, whatever." He's a fine, well-meaning man at heart, but there were times when Marion's personal funk surfaced in important games - and when he openly fantasized about being traded on the eve of this season, he sealed his fate.
The Suns can't replace a player who can run the floor, throw down an earth-shattering dunk, hit the three-pointer, grab key rebounds and play lockdown defense on virtually any player on the opposition. But their team chemistry was evaporating, made clear in revealing comments by Nash and Stoudemire during the season. They certainly didn't look the same in November when they came to Oakland and got run off the floor. Sources say Marion became an increasingly annoying presence in the locker room, to the point where he simply had to go. Argue the merits of the Shaq deal all you like - a lot of NBA insiders think the Suns could have acquired younger, more promising talent - but Marion was done, and so was any chance of Phoenix winning the NBA title with a run-and-gun approach. Heavy lifting
A few things to consider with Shaq in a Phoenix uniform:
-- One of the funniest, most engaging people in sports when he's content, Shaq will bring a lot of life to that team. I remember seeing him in the visitors' locker room in Oakland, as a member of the Miami Heat, lifting people instead of weights. Merely for the sake of hilarity, he was doing curls with the team's diminutive strength coach. Something you don't see every day.
-- The Suns chose to ignore every bit of evidence concerning O'Neal's condition. Most people believe he no longer can run the floor and that his tendency to get injured (Phil Jackson cites his vulnerable areas as "legs, feet, knees and hips") will bring him down. Then again, Nash's back condition is so severe, he often needs to lie flat on his back when he's not in the game. The Suns' medical crew might be the best in the business.
-- Stoudemire now has to be two people: a legitimate power forward when Shaq is on the floor (perhaps removing his customary lanes to the rim) and more of a center when O'Neal is resting. That won't be easy. Flip side: Not that either man is Bill Russell, but when they're out there at the same time, the Suns' rebounding and interior defense have to be better.
-- It won't be take long to answer some big questions. If Shaq's recovery from a hip injury goes on schedule, his first four games (all at home) will be against Dallas, the Lakers, Boston and Detroit.
-- In the wasteland of Miami, Shaq's life was a very messy divorce, several conflicts with coach Pat Riley, a dreadful team and an incessant pounding from double-teams. If his body holds up, Phoenix will be a veritable oasis. He won't draw nearly as much attention, the way the sharpshooting Suns spread the floor, and don't underestimate Nash's distinctive genius. If anyone can make this work, in a big way, it's Nash.
Dude played a really nice game. This is the first time I've gotten a look at him, and he was impressive. He did a great job sticking that 15-foot jumper to set up drives to the hoop.
Damn that Spurs loss stings. They kinda fucked up our momentum w/ them wack Ts. We historically don't win games that Danny Crawford referees. Still, we blew it.
Brandon Bass is awesome. He had two two-handed throwdowns that were directly on the greatest power forward of all time.
Damn that Spurs loss stings. They kinda fucked up our momentum w/ them wack Ts. We historically don't win games that Danny Crawford referees. Still, we blew it.
Brandon Bass is awesome. He had two two-handed throwdowns that were directly on the greatest power forward of all time.
DAMN DIRTY SPURS
ALL OF THIS WILL BECOME IRRELEVANT IN NO TIME. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I BELIEVE NEITHER DALLAS NOR PHOENIX WILL BE ABLE TO BETTER THAN THE SPAIN-ITALY CONNECTION. RECOGNIZE BITCHES.
LOS ANGELES IS DA SPORTS CAPITAL OF THE WORLD. NEW YORK ONLY HAS BASEBALL. LA ALL DAY. WE HAVE SMOG AND LUKE WARM PEOPLE, BUT WE RUN BASKETBALL.
PAC 10 ALL DAY.
DEAL OR NO DEAL IS YOUR CHOICE.
THERE'S PLENTY MORE SPACE ON THE CHAMPIONSHIP BANDWAGON.
YOU CAN PM ME IF YOU WANNA SECRETLY ROOT FOR THE LAKERS. I WON'T TELL.
The Shaq trade was all about making Amare happy......They weren't going anywhere with Amare playing half-assed and Marion asshurt.......Nash,Shaq & Bell's contracts are up in 2 years.....that's 35 million and Amare in his prime to build around......This was a very good trade for Phoenix ...They remain competitive and everybody is happy.
The Shaq trade was all about making Amare happy......They weren't going anywhere with Amare playing half-assed and Marion asshurt.......Nash,Shaq & Bell's contracts are up in 2 years.....that's 35 million and Amare in his prime to build around......This was a very good trade for Phoenix ...They remain competitive and everybody is happy.
^^^ Great point. I think people forget Amare is 25.
Why do you hate on the Shaq trade so much, Snapping? Who are you rooting for, the Blazers? Are you really from a fictional town in the Simpsons? LOL
It's not really hate for Shaq exactly, its just that he seems such an awkward fit for the Suns. It kind of reminds me of the Knicks adding Zach Randolph. No one would say it was a bad move right off the bat because there was an addition of talent involved, but everyone had reservations about how things would gel. Its just hard to see how a lumbering dinosaur like Shaq can fit with a run and gun team like the Suns. It seems like for Marion they should have looked to get a more fleet footed defensive minded center. A great move for the Suns right now would be signing Ruben Paterson for the veterans minimum to add a a rangy defensive presence.
I don't care how many trades Dallas makes ....Avery is an idiot so they aren't going anywhere.
I wouldn't go so far as to call him an idiot but he does some questionable shit at times. "Let's let JET have the ball at the end of this game w/ Kidd on the bench." WTF? Collins trying to explain that away was laughable.
who me?! I BEEN OWNING CABLE. I watch too much basketball. I HAVE TOO MUCH ARSENAL NOW TO UNLEASH. MY TECHNIQUES ARE SIC. KINDA LIKE MEHMET OKUR'S JUMPER.
Comments
you guys forget last year they came one dirty horry play away from the beating the spurs and possibly winning the championship. if stoudamire hadn't been suspended game 6 they would have won it (without him they lost by 2 in overtime) and would have won the series.
i hate the spurs.
Spurs better pray they don't face the Suns this year.
Brandon Bass is a Man.
Give Phoenix a break on deal: Marion had to go
Bruce Jenkins
Sunday, February 10, 2008
Shaquille O'Neal acknowledges fans after being introduced...
(02-09) 18:18 PST -- In attempting to digest the Phoenix Suns' acquisition of Shaquille O'Neal, fans need to realize that this up-tempo, wildly entertaining team was already doomed - at least in their own minds. Shawn Marion had given up on them, and management had no choice but to make it a mutual agreement.
The Suns' only chance to win an NBA title, in any season, was to have its roster 100 percent behind the program. That never really happened. They reached their talented peak during the 2005 playoffs, when they had the explosive Joe Johnson on the floor with Marion, Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire, who shockingly won his personal duel with Tim Duncan to the tune of 41, 37, 34, 31 and 42 points in a five-game loss to San Antonio in the conference finals.
The problem turned out to be Johnson, who missed the first two games of that series because of injury, then figured he wasn't a big enough star in the Suns' system. Johnson went to Atlanta, where he will remain in obscurity indefinitely, and as Stephen Jackson can tell you, it can be a long road back. (Jackson was an integral part of San Antonio's 2003 title, averaging 12.8 points during the playoff run, then inexplicably signed as a free agent with Atlanta and dropped right off the map.)
Marion's case was even more disappointing to the Suns' fans, because he was their highest-paid player and fully showcased as one of the league's most exciting, versatile, influential stars. But he could not accept being No. 3 in the public-relations arena to Nash and Stoudemire. "Around here," Marion once said, "it's always Steve this and Amare that."
As Sports Illustrated's Jack McCallum wrote in ":07 Seconds or Less," his incisive book about the 2005-06 Suns, "Marion lives in a perpetual state of fear that he is being overlooked, underrespected, ignored, dissed, persecuted, singled out, patronized, whatever." He's a fine, well-meaning man at heart, but there were times when Marion's personal funk surfaced in important games - and when he openly fantasized about being traded on the eve of this season, he sealed his fate.
The Suns can't replace a player who can run the floor, throw down an earth-shattering dunk, hit the three-pointer, grab key rebounds and play lockdown defense on virtually any player on the opposition. But their team chemistry was evaporating, made clear in revealing comments by Nash and Stoudemire during the season. They certainly didn't look the same in November when they came to Oakland and got run off the floor. Sources say Marion became an increasingly annoying presence in the locker room, to the point where he simply had to go. Argue the merits of the Shaq deal all you like - a lot of NBA insiders think the Suns could have acquired younger, more promising talent - but Marion was done, and so was any chance of Phoenix winning the NBA title with a run-and-gun approach.
Heavy lifting
A few things to consider with Shaq in a Phoenix uniform:
-- One of the funniest, most engaging people in sports when he's content, Shaq will bring a lot of life to that team. I remember seeing him in the visitors' locker room in Oakland, as a member of the Miami Heat, lifting people instead of weights. Merely for the sake of hilarity, he was doing curls with the team's diminutive strength coach. Something you don't see every day.
-- The Suns chose to ignore every bit of evidence concerning O'Neal's condition. Most people believe he no longer can run the floor and that his tendency to get injured (Phil Jackson cites his vulnerable areas as "legs, feet, knees and hips") will bring him down. Then again, Nash's back condition is so severe, he often needs to lie flat on his back when he's not in the game. The Suns' medical crew might be the best in the business.
-- Stoudemire now has to be two people: a legitimate power forward when Shaq is on the floor (perhaps removing his customary lanes to the rim) and more of a center when O'Neal is resting. That won't be easy. Flip side: Not that either man is Bill Russell, but when they're out there at the same time, the Suns' rebounding and interior defense have to be better.
-- It won't be take long to answer some big questions. If Shaq's recovery from a hip injury goes on schedule, his first four games (all at home) will be against Dallas, the Lakers, Boston and Detroit.
-- In the wasteland of Miami, Shaq's life was a very messy divorce, several conflicts with coach Pat Riley, a dreadful team and an incessant pounding from double-teams. If his body holds up, Phoenix will be a veritable oasis. He won't draw nearly as much attention, the way the sharpshooting Suns spread the floor, and don't underestimate Nash's distinctive genius. If anyone can make this work, in a big way, it's Nash.
Dude played a really nice game. This is the first time I've gotten a look at him, and he was impressive. He did a great job sticking that 15-foot jumper to set up drives to the hoop.
But Bruce Bowen FTW!
Brandon Bass is awesome. He had two two-handed throwdowns that were directly on the greatest power forward of all time.
DAMN DIRTY SPURS
MUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I PRAY THAT THE SUNS LOSE IN THE FIRST ROUND!!! LOL
Either that or get sonned by the Lakers in the 2nd.
Pick your poison.
ALL OF THIS WILL BECOME IRRELEVANT IN NO TIME. MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I BELIEVE NEITHER DALLAS NOR PHOENIX WILL BE ABLE TO
LOS ANGELES IS DA SPORTS CAPITAL OF THE WORLD. NEW YORK ONLY HAS BASEBALL. LA ALL DAY. WE HAVE SMOG AND LUKE WARM PEOPLE, BUT WE RUN BASKETBALL.
PAC 10 ALL DAY.
DEAL OR NO DEAL IS YOUR CHOICE.
THERE'S PLENTY MORE SPACE ON THE CHAMPIONSHIP BANDWAGON.
YOU CAN PM ME IF YOU WANNA SECRETLY ROOT FOR THE LAKERS. I WON'T TELL.
LAKER GIRLS AWAIT YOU.
Nash, Amare, and Shaq willing, this will never happen dude.
you may be wrong on both counts here
^^^ Great point. I think people forget Amare is 25.
We all know Shaq doesn't start playing until April.....Stay tuned.
The picture says it all.
Should be a goodie.
It's not really hate for Shaq exactly, its just that he seems such an awkward fit for the Suns. It kind of reminds me of the Knicks adding Zach Randolph. No one would say it was a bad move right off the bat because there was an addition of talent involved, but everyone had reservations about how things would gel. Its just hard to see how a lumbering dinosaur like Shaq can fit with a run and gun team like the Suns. It seems like for Marion they should have looked to get a more fleet footed defensive minded center.
A great move for the Suns right now would be signing Ruben Paterson for the veterans minimum to add a a rangy defensive presence.
I wouldn't go so far as to call him an idiot but he does some questionable shit at times. "Let's let JET have the ball at the end of this game w/ Kidd on the bench." WTF? Collins trying to explain that away was laughable.
I didn't know he was that clean.
Looks like it might be a good move for the kid and his new team.
yes I checked it for a while until the Spurs/Mavs joint.
Devin is a good scoring ponit guard. Quick as hell and can get to the hoop.
He and Sean Williams are credible guards.
The Nets will be fine next year.
I've never heard somebody describe a player as "clean", but yes, Devin Harris is nice. Yall Midwest/Eastcoast dudes have been sleeping.
Doesnt own Cable.
who me?! I BEEN OWNING CABLE. I watch too much basketball. I HAVE TOO MUCH ARSENAL NOW TO UNLEASH. MY TECHNIQUES ARE SIC. KINDA LIKE MEHMET OKUR'S JUMPER.
Brain by Chick Hearn, Body by Nintendo.