i don't think marion had much voice in this trade-- this was a front office move, not @ the request of marion, who hasn't mentioned his off-season trade remarks since the season started.
and mylat-- this will be very bad.
Oh, I'm sure it was a front-office move, but Marion certainly helped the process along with his repeated grumblings of "I want to be The Man" b/w "Trade me." I think he's a very good player, but he's also in the best possible system for him, and he's about to leave that system for one that won't take nearly as much advantage of his skills.
Loved him as a player, but the dude was chronically ass-hurt.
It's almost funny what his grumblings have gotten him--a far weaker team, whose style of play will not be tailored to his strengths, but where he is even more likely to be eclipsed by one of the league's true stars.
Didn't like Amare's shadow? Try DWade's...
Tim Legler sums up the deal really well. Talking about "Marion always had to guard the best players, and covering for the lack of D for Nash and Stoudamire. Picking up the crumbs on the offensive end."
It's almost funny what his grumblings have gotten him--a far weaker team, whose style of play will not be tailored to his strengths, but where he is even more likely to be eclipsed by one of the league's true stars.
i don't think marion had much voice in this trade-- this was a front office move, not @ the request of marion, who hasn't mentioned his off-season trade remarks since the season started.
and mylat-- this will be very bad.
Oh, I'm sure it was a front-office move, but Marion certainly helped the process along with his repeated grumblings of "I want to be The Man" b/w "Trade me." I think he's a very good player, but he's also in the best possible system for him, and he's about to leave that system for one that won't take nearly as much advantage of his skills.
Loved him as a player, but the dude was chronically ass-hurt.
It's almost funny what his grumblings have gotten him--a far weaker team, whose style of play will not be tailored to his strengths, but where he is even more likely to be eclipsed by one of the league's true stars.
Didn't like Amare's shadow? Try DWade's...
Tim Legler sums up the deal really well. Talking about "Marion always had to guard the best players, and covering for the lack of D for Nash and Stoudamire. Picking up the crumbs on the offensive end."
Well seeing as how the guy can't really create his own shot and he scored plenty and plenty of points with the Suns I'd say that assessment is bullshit.
Great article from Yahoo sports about why the Shaq trade is crap.
As long as the Phoenix Suns linger as that championship-free franchise in the desert, they will continue to regret making a trade for a broken-down Shaquille O'Neal. Between going for it, and sheer desperation, there is the finest line. What happened to believing in Mike D'Antoni's system? What happened to believing speed and finesse could deliver a championship?
In every way, this trade is an indictment of these D'Antoni glory years with the Suns. If Suns president Steve Kerr is thrusting Shaq onto his coach, he never bought into his coach's system. If D'Antoni is going along with this, you have to wonder whether he ever truly believed his way could win a title.
If he's willing to trade Shawn Marion for this Shaq, the architect of this system has surrendered.
"What are they (expletive) thinking?" one Western Conference executive blurted late Tuesday night.
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
Still, there was one Eastern Conference GM who said, "I give Phoenix credit for rolling the dice and trying to make this happen."
This is beyond a roll of the dice. Shaq has to pass a physical in Phoenix on Wednesday, a source told Yahoo! Sports, and you wonder if the Suns elders might come to their senses and make sure that O'Neal "fails" the examination.
For reasons that are clear, Shaq doesn't fit offensively with the Suns. He can't run anymore. He can't shoot. He still was groaning about his touches in Miami, and you think he's going to accept life as the fourth, maybe fifth, option at times? There's little evidence to suggest Shaq simply will embrace the role of defensive stopper that the Suns so desperately want of him.
Do you think Shaq will be content with rebounding and throwing outlets to start fast breaks, never to be rewarded on the offensive end? Alonzo Mourning did it late in his Miami career, but Shaq never has come to terms with his basketball mortality. He still thinks he's the Diesel, and God bless him for it. It makes him bigger than life. Yet it doesn't make him right for the Suns.
Most of all, Shaq can't stay on the floor. He is broken down. He will be 36 next month. He always is hurt now. He has been meeting constantly with doctors this season, MRI after MRI on his hip. His knees still struggle to carry those 340 pounds on his bones. Shaq's spirit was built to endure forever, but his body is a different story.
The Suns are hoping a chance to play for a contender will motivate him to do his rehab and keep his weight down, but even that is wishful thinking. Listen, Shaq had one title left in him. Pat Riley squeezed it out of him. It's over. He doesn't bring Grant Hill's desperation to be a champion. Shaq has been there, done that four times, and you wonder how much that lure even drives him anymore.
Sure, Shaq would've made more sense for the Dallas Mavericks' half-court style, for an owner, Mark Cuban, who doesn't dump good players and future draft picks to stay out of the luxury tax. Yet that's all the Suns have done for the past year under owner Robert Sarver. If the Suns are willing to pay the $40 million owed Shaq over the next two years, they never should have traded tough-guy Kurt Thomas to the Seattle SuperSonics. He always did a good job defending Tim Duncan. He rebounded. He made shots. Most of all, he stayed on the floor.
Ultimately, Shaq can't do that anymore. How in the world is he going to make it to the end of June, through a long playoff run? Odds are he'll be wearing a suit on the bench come playoff time for the Suns.
So yes, Marion wants out of Phoenix. What does it tell you about him that he would welcome a trade to the worst team in the NBA? He wants a max-contract extension, and the Suns are unwilling to pay him. Here in Phoenix, he has a chance to win a championship, but apparently he is thrilled with taking a trip to lottery-land with the Miami Heat. Maybe Marion will opt out of the $17.8 million owed him in 2008-09 and become a free agent. Maybe Pat Riley re-signs him. Either way, Marion ought to call the Atlanta Hawks' Joe Johnson and see how life is with a loser.
Nevertheless, Kerr has played for too many championship teams to even understand a player who would want out of a system and away from a point guard who made him a star. To trade Marion is plausible for a lot reasons, but for Shaq? Now? Without the suspensions against the Spurs in the conference semifinals, the Suns were sure they could've beaten San Antonio. Maybe they were right, but trying to change themselves because the Lakers grabbed Pau Gasol, because they fear the Mavericks will get Jason Kidd, is the wrong way.
Yes, the Suns believe they need strength in the middle. They need a defensive presence. They wanted Amare Stoudemire to move to power forward, where the league's centers no longer can destroy him on a nightly basis. Still, this trade doesn't get the Suns closer to a title, just closer to heartbreak.
"Shaq doesn't fit anything they do," one Eastern Conference assistant coach said Tuesday night. "What makes the Suns great in the half-court is that they pick and roll everybody, all of those guys can shoot it. They have everyone playing a position bigger than they are, like Amare at the five, and Matrix at the four. ??? And now, you put Shaq out there, and I just don't see how it works.
"I guess he clogs the middle for them on defense, but you are stripping the identity of this team with him. Plus, what does he have left right now?"
Since Kerr took the Suns job in June, he has considered so many different trade scenarios for Marion. He talked with Minnesota and Boston about a three-way deal that would've brought the Suns Kevin Garnett. He talked with Utah about Andrei Kirilenko. To settle on Shaq seems just that ??? settling.
All along, the Suns believed they had a system that made teams change for them, that ultimately lived and died with the genius of Steve Nash and the go-go teammates. Suddenly, the Suns look so desperate, so unsure of themselves. Maybe this is Kerr and D'Antoni together; maybe this is the president going it alone.
Nevertheless, the message is unmistakable: When it comes to believing they could win a championship with the coach's style, this was a complete cut-and-run on Super Tuesday.
Somehow, this doesn't feel like the Suns are going for it.
There is nothing that could redeem this trade--not even a championship.
I'm the hooper, the hyper Protected by Viper When I rock the hoop yo, you'd better decipher In other words you'd better make a funky decision (whoo) 'cause I'm a be a Shaq knife, and cut you with precision Forget Tony Danza, I'm the boss When it comes to money, I'm like Dick Butkas Now who's the first pick? me, word is born and Not a Christean Laettner, not Alonzo Mourning That's okay, not being bragadocious Supercalifragelistic, Shaq is alidocious Peace, I gotta go, I ain't no joke Now I slam it (what?) jam it (unh) And make sure it's broke
This season for the Bulls has been worse than I ever could have imagined. But every once in a while, they reward you with a solid game. Never thought it would have been one against the Warriors with three of their top scorers, if they could be described as such, out with nagging injuries.
Looks like C-Web will pretty much be what you'd expect -- a few nice passes, little else.
And Chris Duhon? It may be a stretch, but his 34 points, a career high, may equal all of his points in every game of the season thus far.
I don't get to see the Warriors very much but, damn, are they awesome to watch. It is so much nicer watching nationally televsied games. I honestly can't handle the hometown announcers anymore; it's so tiring.
if the W's game last night impressed you, you should see when they actually show up to play. that game should have been a gimme last night-- the bulls were starting their scrappers and had 25 turnovers. the W's just did what all of their fans know they have the capacity to do from time to time: suck
pietrus needs to stop playing basketball. his nice block and slam do not make up for the fact that he can't sink a three and screwed up with the ball in his hands so many times last night. Baron looked like crap, CWebb was godawful (as expected), Jackson couldn't hit a shot to save his life.
just an off-game all around. i'm blaming it on Webber.
To be fair, I only watched the first half, where right at the end the Warriors started getting a nice swagger going. I did watch a few of the Dallas-Golden State games last year. The Warrirors rhythm and intensity is so awesome. It's the complete polar opposite of the Bulls. That's why I didn't tune into the second half. It was already late, and I was planning on losing sleep over what would clearly be another loss.
It was nice to see Tyrus Thomas getting solid minutes. I guess you can't really blame Boylan (fuck you) for playing Joe Smith, as we're still clinging onto hopes of squezing into the eighth spot in the East (fuck me), but we need to start developing the young boys -- no to Ben Wallace or Joe Smith, yes to Joakim and Tyrus. I honestly think Noah will be a solid center for many years to come.
Noah and Thomas could both contribute to the bulls in a more consistent manner-- they both need more PT, and both need to assert more self control on the court. I don't think Skiles-lite is really gonna be able to teach them that though, especially if he continues to micro-manage and coach in the manner that skiles did.
you didn't miss much in the second half. sloppy basketball all around, and nelson never played azibuike, which sucked because dude can jump out of the gym and is money on putbacks and around-the-rim play.
To be fair, I only watched the first half, where right at the end the Warriors started getting a nice swagger going. I did watch a few of the Dallas-Golden State games last year. The Warrirors rhythm and intensity is so awesome. It's the complete polar opposite of the Bulls. That's why I didn't tune into the second half. It was already late, and I was planning on losing sleep over what would clearly be another loss.
It was nice to see Tyrus Thomas getting solid minutes. I guess you can't really blame Boylan (fuck you) for playing Joe Smith, as we're still clinging onto hopes of squezing into the eighth spot in the East (fuck me), but we need to start developing the young boys -- no to Ben Wallace or Joe Smith, yes to Joakim and Tyrus. I honestly think Noah will be a solid center for many years to come.
I thought that was the best game I've seeno f Thomas last night. He showed a variety of moves on offense. He made a hook shot off a drop step in the post, created his own shot off the dribble and hit a jumper, etc. Plus he got at least one if not two blocked shots. Not sure how he did on the boards.
Disappointing loss for the Warriors though because we're bunched up with a bunch of other teams at the bottom and need every win we can get to stay in the playoffs.
Just got in from the Mavs/Grizzlies game and Memphis has to be the worst team in the NBA......and Kwame Brown brought nothing to the court......but I did get to sit next to the guy below and talk hoops......not everyday do you get to rap with a guy who played at and coached North Carolina.....he was a super nice guy and flipped that I had seen him play in H.S. back on Lonk Guyland.
Just got in from the Mavs/Grizzlies game and Memphis has to be the worst team in the NBA......and Kwame Brown brought nothing to the court......but I did get to sit next to the guy below and talk hoops......not everyday do you get to rap with a guy who played at and coached North Carolina.....he was a super nice guy and flipped that I had seen him play in H.S. back on Lonk Guyland.
Shit! The Celtics beat the Spurs without KG and I missed it! I forgot all about the game, laying around hungover all day. C's still unbeaten against the west!
Comments
Tim Legler sums up the deal really well. Talking about "Marion always had to guard the best players, and covering for the lack of D for Nash and Stoudamire. Picking up the crumbs on the offensive end."
Now THAT is fuck ing hilarious.
That's what the NBA calls a "replica."
Oh, and...
...nice game tonight, LA.
Truth
Well seeing as how the guy can't really create his own shot and he scored plenty and plenty of points with the Suns I'd say that assessment is bullshit.
As long as the Phoenix Suns linger as that championship-free franchise
in the desert, they will continue to regret making a trade for a
broken-down Shaquille O'Neal. Between going for it, and sheer
desperation, there is the finest line. What happened to believing in
Mike D'Antoni's system? What happened to believing speed and finesse
could deliver a championship?
In every way, this trade is an indictment of these D'Antoni glory
years with the Suns. If Suns president Steve Kerr is thrusting Shaq
onto his coach, he never bought into his coach's system. If D'Antoni
is going along with this, you have to wonder whether he ever truly
believed his way could win a title.
If he's willing to trade Shawn Marion for this Shaq, the architect of
this system has surrendered.
"What are they (expletive) thinking?" one Western Conference executive
blurted late Tuesday night.
"I have no clue what they are thinking," one Eastern Conference scout
said. "Shaq retired two years ago."
"It seems like a classic clash of styles," one Western Conference GM said.
Still, there was one Eastern Conference GM who said, "I give Phoenix
credit for rolling the dice and trying to make this happen."
This is beyond a roll of the dice. Shaq has to pass a physical in
Phoenix on Wednesday, a source told Yahoo! Sports, and you wonder if
the Suns elders might come to their senses and make sure that O'Neal
"fails" the examination.
For reasons that are clear, Shaq doesn't fit offensively with the
Suns. He can't run anymore. He can't shoot. He still was groaning
about his touches in Miami, and you think he's going to accept life as
the fourth, maybe fifth, option at times? There's little evidence to
suggest Shaq simply will embrace the role of defensive stopper that
the Suns so desperately want of him.
Do you think Shaq will be content with rebounding and throwing outlets
to start fast breaks, never to be rewarded on the offensive end?
Alonzo Mourning did it late in his Miami career, but Shaq never has
come to terms with his basketball mortality. He still thinks he's the
Diesel, and God bless him for it. It makes him bigger than life. Yet
it doesn't make him right for the Suns.
Most of all, Shaq can't stay on the floor. He is broken down. He will
be 36 next month. He always is hurt now. He has been meeting
constantly with doctors this season, MRI after MRI on his hip. His
knees still struggle to carry those 340 pounds on his bones. Shaq's
spirit was built to endure forever, but his body is a different story.
The Suns are hoping a chance to play for a contender will motivate him
to do his rehab and keep his weight down, but even that is wishful
thinking. Listen, Shaq had one title left in him. Pat Riley squeezed
it out of him. It's over. He doesn't bring Grant Hill's desperation to
be a champion. Shaq has been there, done that four times, and you
wonder how much that lure even drives him anymore.
Sure, Shaq would've made more sense for the Dallas Mavericks'
half-court style, for an owner, Mark Cuban, who doesn't dump good
players and future draft picks to stay out of the luxury tax. Yet
that's all the Suns have done for the past year under owner Robert
Sarver. If the Suns are willing to pay the $40 million owed Shaq over
the next two years, they never should have traded tough-guy Kurt
Thomas to the Seattle SuperSonics. He always did a good job defending
Tim Duncan. He rebounded. He made shots. Most of all, he stayed on the
floor.
Ultimately, Shaq can't do that anymore. How in the world is he going
to make it to the end of June, through a long playoff run? Odds are
he'll be wearing a suit on the bench come playoff time for the Suns.
So yes, Marion wants out of Phoenix. What does it tell you about him
that he would welcome a trade to the worst team in the NBA? He wants a
max-contract extension, and the Suns are unwilling to pay him. Here in
Phoenix, he has a chance to win a championship, but apparently he is
thrilled with taking a trip to lottery-land with the Miami Heat. Maybe
Marion will opt out of the $17.8 million owed him in 2008-09 and
become a free agent. Maybe Pat Riley re-signs him. Either way, Marion
ought to call the Atlanta Hawks' Joe Johnson and see how life is with
a loser.
Nevertheless, Kerr has played for too many championship teams to even
understand a player who would want out of a system and away from a
point guard who made him a star. To trade Marion is plausible for a
lot reasons, but for Shaq? Now? Without the suspensions against the
Spurs in the conference semifinals, the Suns were sure they could've
beaten San Antonio. Maybe they were right, but trying to change
themselves because the Lakers grabbed Pau Gasol, because they fear the
Mavericks will get Jason Kidd, is the wrong way.
Yes, the Suns believe they need strength in the middle. They need a
defensive presence. They wanted Amare Stoudemire to move to power
forward, where the league's centers no longer can destroy him on a
nightly basis. Still, this trade doesn't get the Suns closer to a
title, just closer to heartbreak.
"Shaq doesn't fit anything they do," one Eastern Conference assistant
coach said Tuesday night. "What makes the Suns great in the half-court
is that they pick and roll everybody, all of those guys can shoot it.
They have everyone playing a position bigger than they are, like Amare
at the five, and Matrix at the four. ??? And now, you put Shaq out
there, and I just don't see how it works.
"I guess he clogs the middle for them on defense, but you are
stripping the identity of this team with him. Plus, what does he have
left right now?"
Since Kerr took the Suns job in June, he has considered so many
different trade scenarios for Marion. He talked with Minnesota and
Boston about a three-way deal that would've brought the Suns Kevin
Garnett. He talked with Utah about Andrei Kirilenko. To settle on Shaq
seems just that ??? settling.
All along, the Suns believed they had a system that made teams change
for them, that ultimately lived and died with the genius of Steve Nash
and the go-go teammates. Suddenly, the Suns look so desperate, so
unsure of themselves. Maybe this is Kerr and D'Antoni together; maybe
this is the president going it alone.
Nevertheless, the message is unmistakable: When it comes to believing
they could win a championship with the coach's style, this was a
complete cut-and-run on Super Tuesday.
Somehow, this doesn't feel like the Suns are going for it.
It feels like unconditional surrender.
All that I once felt for the Suns is gone.
I look forward to watching the Lakers eviscerate them in the playoffs.
GOAT?
Best player of his era?
Nothing?
He would need one more ring to match Jordan.
Shit, that would be crazy if 16 years into his career he can help a team win a championship.
More like MJ.
But it might surprise mofos.
Im not gonna hatt just yet, even if shit smells funny.
There is nothing that could redeem this trade--not even a championship.
Huh? Isn't the championship the ONLY thing that matters in the NBA??
The REAL reason Shaq was traded.........
http://www.ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=725955
Perhaps in your vulgar outmoded form of fandom.
You schooled me last season....regular season doesn't mean shit, it's all about the grand prize......has fandom changed since '07??
You're definitely confusing me with somebody else.
I'm the hooper, the hyper
Protected by Viper
When I rock the hoop yo, you'd better decipher
In other words you'd better make a funky decision (whoo)
'cause I'm a be a Shaq knife, and cut you with precision
Forget Tony Danza, I'm the boss
When it comes to money, I'm like Dick Butkas
Now who's the first pick? me, word is born and
Not a Christean Laettner, not Alonzo Mourning
That's okay, not being bragadocious
Supercalifragelistic, Shaq is alidocious
Peace, I gotta go, I ain't no joke
Now I slam it (what?) jam it (unh)
And make sure it's broke
Probably....
Looks like C-Web will pretty much be what you'd expect -- a few nice passes, little else.
And Chris Duhon? It may be a stretch, but his 34 points, a career high, may equal all of his points in every game of the season thus far.
I don't get to see the Warriors very much but, damn, are they awesome to watch. It is so much nicer watching nationally televsied games. I honestly can't handle the hometown announcers anymore; it's so tiring.
that game should have been a gimme last night-- the bulls were starting their scrappers and had 25 turnovers. the W's just did what all of their fans know they have the capacity to do from time to time: suck
pietrus needs to stop playing basketball. his nice block and slam do not make up for the fact that he can't sink a three and screwed up with the ball in his hands so many times last night. Baron looked like crap, CWebb was godawful (as expected), Jackson couldn't hit a shot to save his life.
just an off-game all around. i'm blaming it on Webber.
Ellis went off though.
It was nice to see Tyrus Thomas getting solid minutes. I guess you can't really blame Boylan (fuck you) for playing Joe Smith, as we're still clinging onto hopes of squezing into the eighth spot in the East (fuck me), but we need to start developing the young boys -- no to Ben Wallace or Joe Smith, yes to Joakim and Tyrus. I honestly think Noah will be a solid center for many years to come.
you didn't miss much in the second half. sloppy basketball all around, and nelson never played azibuike, which sucked because dude can jump out of the gym and is money on putbacks and around-the-rim play.
Duhon looks like he's ready to really breakout.
I was surprised to see Webber at the 4 instead of the 5. I imagined Webber/Harrington paired up.
I thought that was the best game I've seeno f Thomas last night. He showed a variety of moves on offense. He made a hook shot off a drop step in the post, created his own shot off the dribble and hit a jumper, etc. Plus he got at least one if not two blocked shots. Not sure how he did on the boards.
Disappointing loss for the Warriors though because we're bunched up with a bunch of other teams at the bottom and need every win we can get to stay in the playoffs.
Very nice! Nothing beats real live action!
I forgot all about the game, laying around hungover all day.
C's still unbeaten against the west!
Pierce with 35