wow, thats a new one on me. as a white b-man that has grown up in hip hop culture since 83 and have many black friends from many different backgrounds, i hate that this is even a topic. however, i don't think there is any clear way of making it stop. maybe the only way is to allow people to use that word and let go of whatever meaning it was given in the first place. if it has no negative meaning when black folks use it, then maybe it shouldn't when white kids use it in the same way. i hear black folks us it all the time and i have been called that by my black friends many many times but its has never prompted me to use it no matter how close i am to the people that use it towards me. i currently live in a house with an 18 year old white suburbanite who spends the better part of his days playing games on the internet and using this word with his friends. i was pretty digusted when i first heard him say it, but how can i explain to him the power and ignorance of this word when he says it? he would get slapped using that word around almost anyone i know but its accepted in his circles. its the times, they're a-changin. as long as brothers are using this word for each other, its only going to give power to the kids who can't tell the difference. since that isn't going to stop, we might as well accept that this is where the world is going. i still hate hearing people say "word" who have nothing to do with the culture that spawned this slang. 2006 is a bitch.
Man, I love Pulp Fiction- LOVE that movie- but that scene is a clunker. I seriously think it was QT trying to show he could get away with something, and I feel like he wrote the whole scene with one hand on his cock. It doesn't offend me so much in moral terms, but artistically. Just so overtly trying to push buttons gets my eyes rolling real quick.[/b]
see, i feel this way about every single thing he's ever done... his movies are like wack mix tapes...
I have friends who tell me the same thing...most of them are people who like older kung-fu flicks, or noir, or basically, all the things that Tarantino copped to form his style. You may or may not fall into that camp, but it is an argument I've heard, and accept.
At the same time, I am a child of th 90s. And, that was when he came about, and used references and launguage that spoke to me as a 16 year-old, and that I've aged with. So, I like dude's style.
Yeah, I cringe at that scene, too, and I understand why Spike got mad about it. The only way I've ever been able to square it, though, is from the perspective that, a) these guys are all criminals, b) criminals are not generally nice people and are usually arseholes, and c) that, in my very limited experience amongst them, criminals very rarely like or trust one another, despite what they may say, and may excuse a certain degree of liberty-taking and over-familiarity for the sake of the game, so to speak. I may be giving Tarantino a little more credit here than perhaps he deserves, however.
You're definitely giving Tarantino more credit than he deserves. I remember reading an article not long after Pulp Fiction came out about how he'd been in a drunken bar fight with a black man, because he'd been loudly stereotyping and making fun of black people's facial features.
The guy's a fucking tool and I'm sure he got off on saying that shit in front of Samuel Jackson. "It's OK, it's just a 'character,' and besides, Sam's alright with it..."
wow, thats a new one on me. as a white b-man that has grown up in hip hop culture since 83 and have many black friends from many different backgrounds, i hate that this is even a topic. however, i don't think there is any clear way of making it stop. maybe the only way is to allow people to use that word and let go of whatever meaning it was given in the first place. if it has no negative meaning when black folks use it, then maybe it shouldn't when white kids use it in the same way. i hear black folks us it all the time and i have been called that by my black friends many many times but its has never prompted me to use it no matter how close i am to the people that use it towards me. i currently live in a house with an 18 year old white suburbanite who spends the better part of his days playing games on the internet and using this word with his friends. i was pretty digusted when i first heard him say it, but how can i explain to him the power and ignorance of this word when he says it? he would get slapped using that word around almost anyone i know but its accepted in his circles. its the times, they're a-changin. as long as brothers are using this word for each other, its only going to give power to the kids who can't tell the difference. since that isn't going to stop, we might as well accept that this is where the world is going. i still hate hearing people say "word" who have nothing to do with the culture that spawned this slang. 2006 is a bitch.
did you just call yourself a B-man? hahahahahahaha
Yeah, I cringe at that scene, too, and I understand why Spike got mad about it. The only way I've ever been able to square it, though, is from the perspective that, a) these guys are all criminals, b) criminals are not generally nice people and are usually arseholes, and c) that, in my very limited experience amongst them, criminals very rarely like or trust one another, despite what they may say, and may excuse a certain degree of liberty-taking and over-familiarity for the sake of the game, so to speak. I may be giving Tarantino a little more credit here than perhaps he deserves, however.
You're definitely giving Tarantino more credit than he deserves. I remember reading an article not long after Pulp Fiction came out about how he'd been in a drunken bar fight with a black man, because he'd been loudly stereotyping and making fun of black people's facial features.
The guy's a fucking tool and I'm sure he got off on saying that shit in front of Samuel Jackson. "It's OK, it's just a 'character,' and besides, Sam's alright with it..."
I think youre mixing your feelings about the artist with his art.
Mingus was a total prick, but I love me some Mingus jazz.
In fact, some would agrue times are changing for the worst!
I agree in a sense.
What is happening is a "structured" lifestyle has gone to the waist side. I mean, I like my "freedom" (the word, in itself, is an illusion) and not a great deal of structure, I admit. However, at the same time, we also need balance and connectedness. (going back to how life is so contradictory, which isn't a bad thing). That shit ain't happening, especially if (back to the point) white girls are using the word ni**a because they see it on MTV and it's "totally rad mon."
Hate to say it, but the more "underground" or "urban" culture touches the mainstream culture, then this balance and connectedness will soon wither away. And after it all withers away then what we are gonna have left is kaos>anarchy>the end of modern civilization. Welcome to the (real) 21st Century folks.
In fact, some would agrue times are changing for the worst!
I agree in a sense.
What is happening is a "structured" lifestyle has gone to the waist side. I mean, I like my "freedom" (the word, in itself, is an illusion) and not a great deal of structure, I admit. However, at the same time, we also need balance and connectedness. (going back to how life is so contradictory, which isn't a bad thing). That shit ain't happening, especially if (back to the point) white girls are using the word ni**a because they see it on MTV and it's "totally rad mon."
Hate to say it, but the more "underground" or "urban" culture touches the mainstream culture, then this balance and connectedness will soon wither away. And after it all withers away then what we are gonna have left is kaos>anarchy>the end of modern civilization. Welcome to the (real) 21st Century folks.
I translate things into English for a living, but I have no idea what you just said.
Also, I think you meant wayside and not "waist side," but I'm still confused.
The end of social/societal boundaries = the end of civilization as we know it? I grade tests for a living, interpreting unintelligible English is what I do. NoZing to thesolelife intended at all btw.
Yeah, I cringe at that scene, too, and I understand why Spike got mad about it. The only way I've ever been able to square it, though, is from the perspective that, a) these guys are all criminals, b) criminals are not generally nice people and are usually arseholes, and c) that, in my very limited experience amongst them, criminals very rarely like or trust one another, despite what they may say, and may excuse a certain degree of liberty-taking and over-familiarity for the sake of the game, so to speak. I may be giving Tarantino a little more credit here than perhaps he deserves, however.
You're definitely giving Tarantino more credit than he deserves. I remember reading an article not long after Pulp Fiction came out about how he'd been in a drunken bar fight with a black man, because he'd been loudly stereotyping and making fun of black people's facial features.
The guy's a fucking tool and I'm sure he got off on saying that shit in front of Samuel Jackson. "It's OK, it's just a 'character,' and besides, Sam's alright with it..."
I think youre mixing your feelings about the artist with his art.
Mingus was a total prick, but I love me some Mingus jazz.
Actually, I was pointing out that he probably isn't separating his feelings with his art.
Don't make me pull out the "What if Hitler had been a great artist" analogy!
oh, and i still have more problems responding to the "HIP HOP HANDSHAKE" than to the n word. can we just shake hands? i mean, i dont get all the hand shakes and hitting fists and hand jive or whatevers.
There's this one handshake where a dude tries to pull himself closer to you & its kinda like a thug hug. What's up with that? I always make sure to stick my hand out straight so as to avoid a weird handshake.
oh, and i still have more problems responding to the "HIP HOP HANDSHAKE" than to the n word. can we just shake hands? i mean, i dont get all the hand shakes and hitting fists and hand jive or whatevers.
There's this one handshake where a dude tries to pull himself closer to you & its kinda like a thug hug. What's up with that? I always make sure to stick my hand out straight so as to avoid a weird handshake.
Yes, the no-wraparound-arm hug, or "chest bump." That one has thrown me off a time or two. Like, "Oh shit, is this big thuggish dude trying to hug me?"
oh, and i still have more problems responding to the "HIP HOP HANDSHAKE" than to the n word. can we just shake hands? i mean, i dont get all the hand shakes and hitting fists and hand jive or whatevers.
There's this one handshake where a dude tries to pull himself closer to you & its kinda like a thug hug. What's up with that? I always make sure to stick my hand out straight so as to avoid a weird handshake.
Yes, the no-wraparound-arm hug, or "chest bump." That one has thrown me off a time or two. Like, "Oh shit, is this big thuggish dude trying to hug me?"
it helps people feel if you've got a pistol in your waist.
im not at all excited about hipster white girls calling each other the n word but honestly, some dude over at special nerds club [aka waxidermy] just posted this like.
of course, i didnt read it but only looked at some of the pics. dude, i dont know if these chicks are what you all are talking about when folks say "hipster" but that is beside the point. what a bunch of useless fucks with absolutely no humanity. so sad.
if you can't accept it (and you really shouldn't), then did you correct these corny chicks? did you explain to them how that word makes you feel when you hear it uttered by non-blacks or even by brothers? did you explain the difference between blacks saying it and non-blacks saying it? did that explanation make sense to them? i hope you did. i know kids get slapped when they say it in the wrong company (not that there is a right company), but even that is a little hypocritical when the slapper turns to his friend and uses the same word, the same way. also, i would concur that the world is changing for the worse. no doubt. however, at the very least, these white kids who are using the word now are not using it in the same context as white folks before them. most of my life i've heard it from white folks from a feeling of hatred spawned from ignorance, but i don't feel like that's the way kids use it these days - well, still ignorance, but at least an honest ignorance. this doesn't make it okay, but kids are growing up in a world where street thug hip hop shit is in their face all day long, whether its real or not and these kids don't know the difference - hence the amount of slapped-up white kids. we all know that the media rapes and exploits ghetto culture so if its used in the ghettos, its only a matter of time before it's widely accepted in mainstream culture. so, really, if it is to stop, it's got to stop at its source. i think if black folks stop using it, white kids will continue to until its not cool any more. no its not right. but its just one more not right thing in a vast wasteland of things that aren't right in the world. i'll never use it, i'll never condone the use of it. in fact, as a white person, i am not even sure its something i should speak on.
and i don't know where the topic of handshakes came in on this one, but dang people, it's a handshake. it should come naturally, like dancing/fucking/walking. but, i guess people do have problems doing these swiftly sometimes too.... and i don't hi-five so don't try it.
im not at all excited about hipster white girls calling each other the n word but honestly, some dude over at special nerds club [aka waxidermy] just posted this like.
of course, i didnt read it but only looked at some of the pics. dude, i dont know if these chicks are what you all are talking about when folks say "hipster" but that is beside the point. what a bunch of useless fucks with absolutely no humanity. so sad.
Good job Shig - wrapping up 2 threads in one.
Those bitches are hipsters.
And people who write things like this...
///////// do you have anymore of those "children are faggots shirts," i hate those little dumb bastards Written by chvostal on 2006-07-12 16:23:16
///////// children are faggots?!?!
I just peed myself.. that's extra classic.
oh yeah.. nice work on the mouse too. Written by jizzle on 2006-07-12 16:28:58
...need to get their teeth kicked in.
But back to the matter at hand... No one[/b] besides Black folks should use that word. Period. To me, it's just as bad seeing some Mexican or Asian kids saying it to each other. I get called that almost every day but I would never say it back no matter how close I am to that person. I have no reason to.
Amir, I don't even know what to say other than keep a chick with you that will slap some sense into these batches.
Well, the chicks in question I did confront...with just this "You think that shit is cool don't you??!!" They looked like a bunch of deer caught in some headlights!! I really didn't feel like having to sit there and explain what you just broke down. I had shit to do, and fuck it I am tired of explaining shit to people like that over and over again..shit wears you down and for what, so they can forget what I said to them 15 minutes after I said it to them. Honestly, I started this thread because I was mad frustrated at having to confront that shit yet again! For real, I don't why I am complaining my parents couldn't even use the same restrooms or the same water fountain as whites back in the day.... amir
wow, thats a new one on me. as a white b-man that has grown up in hip hop culture since 83 and have many black friends from many different backgrounds, i hate that this is even a topic. however, i don't think there is any clear way of making it stop. maybe the only way is to allow people to use that word and let go of whatever meaning it was given in the first place. if it has no negative meaning when black folks use it, then maybe it shouldn't when white kids use it in the same way. i hear black folks us it all the time and i have been called that by my black friends many many times but its has never prompted me to use it no matter how close i am to the people that use it towards me. i currently live in a house with an 18 year old white suburbanite who spends the better part of his days playing games on the internet and using this word with his friends. i was pretty digusted when i first heard him say it, but how can i explain to him the power and ignorance of this word when he says it? he would get slapped using that word around almost anyone i know but its accepted in his circles. its the times, they're a-changin. as long as brothers are using this word for each other, its only going to give power to the kids who can't tell the difference. since that isn't going to stop, we might as well accept that this is where the world is going. i still hate hearing people say "word" who have nothing to do with the culture that spawned this slang. 2006 is a bitch.
There you go. It is silly to get wrapped up in the outmoded performative values of a word that has come to be nothing more than a colloquial constative. The word only creates a problem if you acsribe to the history that is attached to it--the moment that you view the word 'nigga' as evoking the history of black people in the United States you are dealing with a history, and not a word; in such a case the word is a vehicle that signifies in realms that exceed linguistics. Nobody trips over people saying God, but in biblical times that shit would get your ass cooked in any Hebrew tribe. Perhaps we are in the midst of the mediation between the power of this word and its banality, which would explain why some people have a problem with it whilst it continues to pervade colloquial parlance.
In regards to what to do during a rap song that uses the word 'nigga': I am a Hebrew man, and I don't have black skin, and I listen to a whole lot of hip hop. If I'm rapping along to a song and it says nigga I say it too. I think it's silly to create a community of exclusion around a word in this case (you can only use it if you have black skin)--delimiting who can and cannot use the word only highlights the issue. If we set up a structure that bars people without black skin from rapping along with the word 'nigga' then we essentially construct the same kind of power structure that is at issue in the first place: the othering and abjectifying of a group of people who are not part of a community. I think this word raises a lot of interesting issues in regards to both race theory and critical theory regarding the performative and signifying powers of language, and it's not simply solved, ceratinly not on a message board, but it can create some interesting conversation.
Did you read what I said..I said loud and clear that black people shouldn't be using the word either!! The fact that when a song with the nigga is used you feel it's ok to say the N word too proves my point. We as black Americans have used that word for so long because it was said to us sooo much as slaves that we identify with the word as a term of love for each other. Now we use it soo much that as someone earlier pointed out that the mass media has seized the word and co-opted the term and brought to the mass as a "cool" term. These same people i.e. those hipsters chicks that I started this whole thread about..now feel it's cool to say it without putting the word into context. That's exactly what you are doing my Hebrew brother! amir
I think I pretty much put it in context, but perhaps that is just the context that I understand it in. I use it with an acute knowledge of what I am doing. A word is not just going to disappear, espeically when it has been archived to the extent that this one has. I would argue that best way to deal with this word is to assess its values and be aware of how it works so that it is diffused on the part of the person who hears it, rather than on the part of the speaker. It is a lot easier to square it away in terms of your own understanding than it is to attempt to get other people to understand it.
Comments
word nigga
I have friends who tell me the same thing...most of them are people who like older kung-fu flicks, or noir, or basically, all the things that Tarantino copped to form his style. You may or may not fall into that camp, but it is an argument I've heard, and accept.
At the same time, I am a child of th 90s. And, that was when he came about, and used references and launguage that spoke to me as a 16 year-old, and that I've aged with. So, I like dude's style.
You're definitely giving Tarantino more credit than he deserves. I remember reading an article not long after Pulp Fiction came out about how he'd been in a drunken bar fight with a black man, because he'd been loudly stereotyping and making fun of black people's facial features.
The guy's a fucking tool and I'm sure he got off on saying that shit in front of Samuel Jackson. "It's OK, it's just a 'character,' and besides, Sam's alright with it..."
did you just call yourself a B-man? hahahahahahaha
that rules
I think youre mixing your feelings about the artist with his art.
Mingus was a total prick, but I love me some Mingus jazz.
I agree in a sense.
What is happening is a "structured" lifestyle has gone to the waist side. I mean, I like my "freedom" (the word, in itself, is an illusion) and not a great deal of structure, I admit. However, at the same time, we also need balance and connectedness. (going back to how life is so contradictory, which isn't a bad thing). That shit ain't happening, especially if (back to the point) white girls are using the word ni**a because they see it on MTV and it's "totally rad mon."
Hate to say it, but the more "underground" or "urban" culture touches the mainstream culture, then this balance and connectedness will soon wither away. And after it all withers away then what we are gonna have left is kaos>anarchy>the end of modern civilization. Welcome to the (real) 21st Century folks.
I translate things into English for a living, but I have no idea what you just said.
Also, I think you meant wayside and not "waist side," but I'm still confused.
Actually, I was pointing out that he probably isn't separating his feelings with his art.
Don't make me pull out the "What if Hitler had been a great artist" analogy!
There's this one handshake where a dude tries to pull himself closer to you & its kinda like a thug hug. What's up with that? I always make sure to stick my hand out straight so as to avoid a weird handshake.
Yes, the no-wraparound-arm hug, or "chest bump." That one has thrown me off a time or two. Like, "Oh shit, is this big thuggish dude trying to hug me?"
http://www.fecalface.com/SF/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=230&Itemid=104
of course, i didnt read it but only looked at some of the pics. dude, i dont know if these chicks are what you all are talking about when folks say "hipster" but that is beside the point. what a bunch of useless fucks with absolutely no humanity. so sad.
and i don't know where the topic of handshakes came in on this one, but dang people, it's a handshake. it should come naturally, like dancing/fucking/walking. but, i guess people do have problems doing these swiftly sometimes too.... and i don't hi-five so don't try it.
amir
Good job Shig - wrapping up 2 threads in one.
Those bitches are hipsters.
And people who write things like this...
...need to get their teeth kicked in.
But back to the matter at hand...
No one[/b] besides Black folks should use that word. Period.
To me, it's just as bad seeing some Mexican or Asian kids saying it to each other.
I get called that almost every day but I would never say it back no matter how close I am to that person. I have no reason to.
Amir, I don't even know what to say other than keep a chick with you that will slap some sense into these batches.
amir
There you go. It is silly to get wrapped up in the outmoded performative values of a word that has come to be nothing more than a colloquial constative. The word only creates a problem if you acsribe to the history that is attached to it--the moment that you view the word 'nigga' as evoking the history of black people in the United States you are dealing with a history, and not a word; in such a case the word is a vehicle that signifies in realms that exceed linguistics. Nobody trips over people saying God, but in biblical times that shit would get your ass cooked in any Hebrew tribe. Perhaps we are in the midst of the mediation between the power of this word and its banality, which would explain why some people have a problem with it whilst it continues to pervade colloquial parlance.
In regards to what to do during a rap song that uses the word 'nigga':
I am a Hebrew man, and I don't have black skin, and I listen to a whole lot of hip hop. If I'm rapping along to a song and it says nigga I say it too. I think it's silly to create a community of exclusion around a word in this case (you can only use it if you have black skin)--delimiting who can and cannot use the word only highlights the issue. If we set up a structure that bars people without black skin from rapping along with the word 'nigga' then we essentially construct the same kind of power structure that is at issue in the first place: the othering and abjectifying of a group of people who are not part of a community. I think this word raises a lot of interesting issues in regards to both race theory and critical theory regarding the performative and signifying powers of language, and it's not simply solved, ceratinly not on a message board, but it can create some interesting conversation.
amir
Whattup Amir?
And yo I would still slay some of them white hipster chicks that I meet. I am weak. That shit is like crack.
no its not
Sure it is. It's so completely out the pocket.
ahem
I'm just wondering how far it's gonna go.
What you trying to do switch up now?