My point is that IT IS about the music (at least to me), but people on this board want to stop at the fanbase. Hipsters drive me up the wall but that won't stop me from listening to DipSet...
If you actually think anybody on here is not listening to music they think is great due to the fans you're out of your mind...
No but alot of people use artist's fanbase as their argument.. ie. fanboy hiphop...
Do you even read?
I already explained what I meant by the phrase "fanboy hip-hop," and it doesn't simply mean "hip-hop which inspires people to be devoted fans," which would obviously be redundant.
It refers to artists who are themselves little more than fanboys--like Little Brother.
Again, dude, the only people hung up on the subject of the Roots' fanbase appear to be you and your hommie van horn
I don't remember speaking on their fanbase, other than to say that their constant touring proves they don't dissapoint at their shows.
For all those commenting on how stale the Roots shows are, how many of you have seen them in the last couple of years?
I saw them at the Kimmel Center in Philly this past fall and it was hardly "recycled" material. To open up, they had this crazy routine for "BOOM!" where they looped this scratchy sample of the intro and then came out from the audience with a full marching band filling in the beat. Then they cut the music and Jaguar Right started into an accappella of Everybody is A Star. The crowd was on their feet for pretty much the whole show. Jill Scott did a guest spot/replacement for "You Got Me" and followed with her own song about Katrina. The Roots ended with some tribute stuff (most of it was new!) and then as we walked out, Quest was already djing in the lobby, which was completely unannounced and definitely appreciated.
331/3, you really think a lot of Devin's material is ehhh? I think he's made two seriously classic albums in the last five years. I can't even tell you what a Roots song from the last five years sounds like.
That's just my taste, but I don't even think the two are in the same ballpark.
they really don't though. i don't think there are too many places in america other than nyc where devin would pull a primarily white crowd. i think that crowd had a lot more to do with the promoters than with devin's fanbase.
Yup. I could send anyone who thinks Devin has a white audience some footage from his shows in Cleveland or various down south locations and finding a white dude in the audience would be like "where's Waldo" and shit. All respect due to the promoter who brough Devin to NY, but her reach doesn't really extend beyond downtown trustfund types and skateboarders and I don't think the show even necessarily accurately represented his fanbase even in NY. The Roots on the other hand play to the same audience wherever they go.
True, not saying he doesn't have a hood audience, never said that. He does have a bigger white audience now that is made up of alot of the same audience that listens to the roots, dipset, and every other hood or non hood rap group that has any kind of major presence.
I agree that "it's a different game," but my point is that hip-hop has always been driven by singles, and more often than not, by singles that people like to dance to and party to.
A club banger, circa 1988 would have meant something like "It Takes Two" or, in 1991, "Check the Rhime." Having a single that people enjoy on a visceral, physical level is not anything new in hip-hop; rather, I'd suggest that it's the precise reason why people like hip-hop at all.
And "Fight the Power" = definite club banger (for its era...well, actually, it plays pretty well these days too).
Oliver
Let's be real, the trend in hip-hop (both mainstream and hipsters) is for for club bangers.
Please to explain: when has hip-hop NOT been about club bangers? Did I miss rap's folk ballad years?
Odub, c'mon are you serious? I mean step back and look at Fight the Power vs. Get Crunked up... Its transparent. Talk to people at the majors ask them what is going on. All they're targeting are club hits. No risk taking. They're throwing singles out and seeing what sticks. Hell half the majors are getting rid of their "urban" departments because its all pop to them now...
I've seen the Roots twice in like an 18 month period. And you know what, I liked the show. Being a musician, a live band doing hip hop is pretty appealing (not to say that I am hating on DJ/MC shows) and we don't get many big hip hop acts touring down here. I am a pretty huge Roots fan, and I will agree that though they have become a bit formulaic with their output & I miss them having 2 MCs to break up Thought's flow(???) I still find musical value & substance in their albums & in both of those live shows. I can see people's problems with the 'covers band' aspect, but it's just a bit of fun & they do it well. Also some of the solo spots wank on a bit too much (10m of basic pentatonic blues guitar noodling is suspect, as is "let's try to play something using every pre-set on my keyboard"). But the slow blues that the guitarist & female vocalist did at the end of the 2nd show was particularly jaw dropping. So the good definitely outweighs the bad. Maybe some of the hate is just like the punk scene where bands get big & then it isn't cool for the OG heads to say they like them anymore, or really I don't know, it's all just speculation I guess???
331/3, you really think a lot of Devin's material is ehhh? I think he's made two seriously classic albums in the last five years. I can't even tell you what a Roots song from the last five years sounds like.
That's just my taste, but I don't even think the two are in the same ballpark.
They aren't the same, but if you look at their catalogs they even out. The roots have 2 really good albums IMO a third that had a couple of nice joints on it, and then it was maybe only singles here and there that I liked. Devin has two good albums and then the rest are pretty much singles etc. that I have heard and not everything was that dope to me. I overall liked Dude and Just Tryin Ta Live, but 2 the Extreme was ehh.
I have never seen Devin live so I can't comment on his live shows. I have seen the roots live and like I said the first show was dope.
I agree that "it's a different game," but my point is that hip-hop has always been driven by singles, and more often than not, by singles that people like to dance to and party to.
A club banger, circa 1988 would have meant something like "It Takes Two" or, in 1991, "Check the Rhime." Having a single that people enjoy on a visceral, physical level is not anything new in hip-hop; rather, I'd suggest that it's the precise reason why people like hip-hop at all.
And "Fight the Power" = definite club banger (for its era...well, actually, it plays pretty well these days too).
Oliver
Let's be real, the trend in hip-hop (both mainstream and hipsters) is for for club bangers.
Please to explain: when has hip-hop NOT been about club bangers? Did I miss rap's folk ballad years?
Odub, c'mon are you serious? I mean step back and look at Fight the Power vs. Get Crunked up... Its transparent. Talk to people at the majors ask them what is going on. All they're targeting are club hits. No risk taking. They're throwing singles out and seeing what sticks. Hell half the majors are getting rid of their "urban" departments because its all pop to them now...
its not the same as it was, its a different game.
Odub, Its not the same as it was, just from talking to cats at the majors. They are only putting out singles now. if one of those singles catches, then they will consider to do an album if the artist can come up with another catchy single to follow up with. You can't get a record deal these days without the single really catching. and Fight the Power was probably not the best example. Take a KMD or evena Mobb Deep, where they aren't making it directly for clubs but it was played there because it was popular, that kind of thing is nto about to happen at the majors now.
When Illadelph dropped really no one was fuckin with them, and they were on some different shit.
Perhaps in your private mindgarden and those of a few others...
Weren't you nine when that came out? How would you know? That shit was bangin' on the West Coast.
When I saw the roots for the first time I was the opening DJ. I really enjoyed the show. The second time I saw them they played the same songs and I was disappointed. I thought of them as the Hip-Hop Grateful Dead, and I hate the Dead. Their last two albums put me to sleep. I'll still check for future stuff, just in case.
I've only seen The Roots once around '95 or '96, and the show was fucking banging. That being said, this was 10 years ago and I dont know how well that style show has aged. I definately couldnt sit through Rahzel's beatboxing solo again.
Also, on a related note...I rode to lunch with a co-worker the other day, and he had to throw on a Phish CD since I had never heard them before. Hopefully I will never have to get in his car ever again.
I really don't think that they are--to me, both acts make uninspired fanboy hip-hop.
Faux I can`t live with this. Your definition of fanboy hiphop could fall on lil bro (hence there name) still no excuse to diss them, but not on the roots.
But man no matter how much your not feeling the roots they have to be respected. They are a good band that came up in the philedelphia scene have made consistent records. Don`t like them fine.Don`t diss blantantly.
seriously, man think about it.. people wild out dissing southern rappers for their flow. I might not like some but I respect what they do or at least say nothing
Ask a rapper to diss the MC skills of Black thought, no one can front... flow, rhymes, delivery
Ask a rapper to diss the MC skills of Black thought, no one can front... flow, rhymes, delivery
what is Black Thought ever talking about? the only memorably lyrics he wrote was the shit he said about his man Malik B on drugs on "Water" and him moaning to his girl on "You Got Me"
It's funny to see all this zealous heatred of The Roots. I haven't been checking for them since after Phrenology. Actually not even really since Things Fall Apart. But I can't deny that I used to, and still do from time to time, love their previous albums. I've seen them three times - and while the novelty wore off after the first show, and I will agree they are formulaic with their sets. It's not always as exciting as some totally off the wall, spontaneous, straight from the soul performances. That's true. But they're still a good time. Credit has to be given to the fact that they perform a tight, non stop show that is both well rehearsed and skillfully performed. I think most of the critique of their lack of energy falls on Black Thoughts shoulders... he's just not an excitable type of guy on stage. It's a style that works really well listening at home, but tends to be less than thrilling live. With a more energetic frontman the it would be different I guess.
Faux you're crazy if you think Illadelph wasn't "felt". I grew up in a small town in farmland Ontario, and most of the people that I knew who were into hip hop knew about or owned it. For its market penetration ( ) to reach the culture in my hometown, it must have been "felt" by a decent ammount of people. No arguing that it was the Badu collab on You Got Me that really put them on the mainstream radar, but people were certainly listening to Illadelph when it came out.
The latest thing I've heard from them (besides the garbage posted above) is a track off some Sly and the Family Stone remix album that Starbucks is selling. I work there, and it's one of the only good cds we can listen to at work. The song isn't bad, but as soon as I heard it, I was like "oh ok that's the same flow off that Sayin' Nothin track from Tipping Point, and the drums/guitar sound like that Cody Chestnutt one..." Just "oh. typical roots."
So yeah. I'll agree they've become placid in recent years. But that doesn't erase the quality of Do You Want More, Illadeph Halflife, and Things Fall Apart - all of which I'd consider great albums. Ok... maybe not DYWM!?. There's only a few heaters on that. But still.
PS - PLUS! More than a handful of dope beats too!!!!!
I really don't think that they are--to me, both acts make uninspired fanboy hip-hop.
Faux I can`t live with this. Your definition of fanboy hiphop could fall on lil bro (hence there name) still no excuse to diss them, but not on the roots.
But man no matter how much your not feeling the roots they have to be respected. They are a good band that came up in the philedelphia scene have made consistent records. Don`t like them fine.Don`t diss blantantly.
seriously, man think about it.. people wild out dissing southern rappers for their flow. I might not like some but I respect what they do or at least say nothing
Ask a rapper to diss the MC skills of Black thought, no one can front... flow, rhymes, delivery
I am out
Haha... dude, your argument amounts to "I find it very upsetting that you don't like the Roots"
Is this supposed to resonate with me?
Straight up, here it comes: the Roots are a boring footnote. Live with it.
Comments
Do you even read?
I already explained what I meant by the phrase "fanboy hip-hop," and it doesn't simply mean "hip-hop which inspires people to be devoted fans," which would obviously be redundant.
It refers to artists who are themselves little more than fanboys--like Little Brother.
I don't remember speaking on their fanbase, other than to say that their constant touring proves they don't dissapoint at their shows.
For all those commenting on how stale the Roots shows are, how many of you have seen them in the last couple of years?
I saw them at the Kimmel Center in Philly this past fall and it was hardly "recycled" material. To open up, they had this crazy routine for "BOOM!" where they looped this scratchy sample of the intro and then came out from the audience with a full marching band filling in the beat. Then they cut the music and Jaguar Right started into an accappella of Everybody is A Star. The crowd was on their feet for pretty much the whole show. Jill Scott did a guest spot/replacement for "You Got Me" and followed with her own song about Katrina. The Roots ended with some tribute stuff (most of it was new!) and then as we walked out, Quest was already djing in the lobby, which was completely unannounced and definitely appreciated.
Sorry about that,we need a 8 pager version.
That's just my taste, but I don't even think the two are in the same ballpark.
You're right--I had you confused with Mandrew. Sorry about that.
True, not saying he doesn't have a hood audience, never said that. He does have a bigger white audience now that is made up of alot of the same audience that listens to the roots, dipset, and every other hood or non hood rap group that has any kind of major presence.
A club banger, circa 1988 would have meant something like "It Takes Two" or, in 1991, "Check the Rhime." Having a single that people enjoy on a visceral, physical level is not anything new in hip-hop; rather, I'd suggest that it's the precise reason why people like hip-hop at all.
And "Fight the Power" = definite club banger (for its era...well, actually, it plays pretty well these days too).
Oliver
I caught them in SF around 1991...what was funny was that Cypress Hill was opening for them. Ah, the ironies of history.
They aren't the same, but if you look at their catalogs they even out. The roots have 2 really good albums IMO a third that had a couple of nice joints on it, and then it was maybe only singles here and there that I liked. Devin has two good albums and then the rest are pretty much singles etc. that I have heard and not everything was that dope to me. I overall liked Dude and Just Tryin Ta Live, but 2 the Extreme was ehh.
I have never seen Devin live so I can't comment on his live shows. I have seen the roots live and like I said the first show was dope.
see, i think the former is one of the greatest end-to-end albums of the last ten years, and the latter very good as well although very different.
Odub, Its not the same as it was, just from talking to cats at the majors. They are only putting out singles now. if one of those singles catches, then they will consider to do an album if the artist can come up with another catchy single to follow up with. You can't get a record deal these days without the single really catching. and Fight the Power was probably not the best example. Take a KMD or evena Mobb Deep, where they aren't making it directly for clubs but it was played there because it was popular, that kind of thing is nto about to happen at the majors now.
Weren't you nine when that came out? How would you know? That shit was bangin' on the West Coast.
When I saw the roots for the first time I was the opening DJ. I really enjoyed the show. The second time I saw them they played the same songs and I was disappointed. I thought of them as the Hip-Hop Grateful Dead, and I hate the Dead. Their last two albums put me to sleep. I'll still check for future stuff, just in case.
I think you have me confused with somebody that's more than a decade younger than me.
That must be it.
Also, on a related note...I rode to lunch with a co-worker the other day, and he had to throw on a Phish CD since I had never heard them before. Hopefully I will never have to get in his car ever again.
yo, me too! there are like 5 folks from new york (or who i think are from new york) and i can't get them straight.
> Black Eyed Piss[/b]
graemlin: REAL CHICKS KNOW THE DEAL
Faux I can`t live with this. Your definition of fanboy hiphop could fall on lil bro (hence there name) still no excuse to diss them, but not on the roots.
But man no matter how much your not feeling the roots they have to be respected. They are a good band that came up in the philedelphia scene have made consistent records. Don`t like them fine.Don`t diss blantantly.
seriously, man think about it.. people wild out dissing southern rappers for their flow. I might not like some but I respect what they do or at least say nothing
Ask a rapper to diss the MC skills of Black thought, no one can front...
flow, rhymes, delivery
I am out
i'm just nitpicking for clairification
what is Black Thought ever talking about? the only memorably lyrics he wrote was the shit he said about his man Malik B on drugs on "Water" and him moaning to his girl on "You Got Me"
Faux you're crazy if you think Illadelph wasn't "felt". I grew up in a small town in farmland Ontario, and most of the people that I knew who were into hip hop knew about or owned it. For its market penetration (
The latest thing I've heard from them (besides the garbage posted above) is a track off some Sly and the Family Stone remix album that Starbucks is selling. I work there, and it's one of the only good cds we can listen to at work. The song isn't bad, but as soon as I heard it, I was like "oh ok that's the same flow off that Sayin' Nothin track from Tipping Point, and the drums/guitar sound like that Cody Chestnutt one..." Just "oh. typical roots."
So yeah. I'll agree they've become placid in recent years. But that doesn't erase the quality of Do You Want More, Illadeph Halflife, and Things Fall Apart - all of which I'd consider great albums. Ok... maybe not DYWM!?. There's only a few heaters on that. But still.
PS - PLUS! More than a handful of dope beats too!!!!!
Haha... dude, your argument amounts to "I find it very upsetting that you don't like the Roots"
Is this supposed to resonate with me?
Straight up, here it comes: the Roots are a boring footnote. Live with it.