One of the things I learned when dealing with my friend/partners illness was that you can't force an adult to get mental health unless they commit a crime.
One of the many "freedoms" that we have here in America.
Yes, very difficult.
Laws differ from state to state.
We managed to get a relative in for evaluation in MD.
I think they were able to hold him for 48 hours.
In some cases if they can start a patient on medication they are more likely to stay voluntarily.
I think my relative refused medication.
He has guns.
Also, Palin is a freak who has compared herself to Queen Esther in the past. Though again, who knows if that was her idea or if one of her advisers came up with that one, too.
She likely meant the character on Sanford & Son.
While our country's mindset should be mourning victims, hoping the best for the survivors and addressing the reasons this happened, it is instead focused on attacking and defending the one Sara Palin.
There are not enough beds or mental health care facilities to deal with THAT insanity.
I hope you're including yourself there.
The notion that everyone should be mourning 24/7 and not discussing or considering anything else is just code for "I don't like this discussion." Yet you've been taking part in it throughout.
Actually my stance all along is that there is no reason for Ms. Wasilla to have even be mentioned in this thread.
One of the things I learned when dealing with my friend/partners illness was that you can't force an adult to get mental health unless they commit a crime.
One of the many "freedoms" that we have here in America.
Yes, very difficult.
Laws differ from state to state.
We managed to get a relative in for evaluation in MD.
I think they were able to hold him for 48 hours.
In some cases if they can start a patient on medication they are more likely to stay voluntarily.
I think my relative refused medication.
He has guns.
That sounds terrible.....and dangerous.
And if god forbid he goes off the deep end and does something irrational where would you place the blame?
He twice has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
In terms of violent behavior, it is paranoid schizophrenics who tend to be violent. (In rare cases.)
BUT, I do worry about his ex and 2 daughters. The guy is filled with hatred.
Just as in this case, I would put the blame on him or course.
But I would feel loads of guilt. I wish there was more we could do. I wish it was easier to get him mental health care.
BTW: He is a rightwingtalkradiolisteningpalinlovingxian nut.
Also, Palin is a freak who has compared herself to Queen Esther in the past. Though again, who knows if that was her idea or if one of her advisers came up with that one, too.
She likely meant the character on Sanford & Son.
While our country's mindset should be mourning victims, hoping the best for the survivors and addressing the reasons this happened, it is instead focused on attacking and defending the one Sara Palin.
There are not enough beds or mental health care facilities to deal with THAT insanity.
I hope you're including yourself there.
The notion that everyone should be mourning 24/7 and not discussing or considering anything else is just code for "I don't like this discussion." Yet you've been taking part in it throughout.
Actually my stance all along is that there is no reason for Ms. Wasilla to have even be mentioned in this thread.
Unless you're equivocatin' like a motherfucker
Yeah, that was your stance. And having stated it, you went on to post numerous other non-mourning comments about that and other things, during the course of which you mentioned Palin.
He twice has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
In terms of violent behavior, it is paranoid schizophrenics who tend to be violent. (In rare cases.)
BUT, I do worry about his ex and 2 daughters. The guy is filled with hatred.
Just as in this case, I would put the blame on him or course.
But I would feel loads of guilt. I wish there was more we could do. I wish it was easier to get him mental health care.
BTW: He is a rightwingtalkradiolisteningpalinlovingxian nut.
And given all of that, if he shot a Democratic elected official, would it:
A. Make you think more highly of wingnut hate speech?
B. Make you think less highly of wingnut hate speech?
C. Make no difference in how you think about wingnut hate speech?
If I'm reading things right it seems that the right-wing position is that the answer should always be C, no matter what, and that it's indecent to even ask the question unless you have proof that Rush or Palin actually hired the guy to do the killing.
Other than that, everything happens in a vacuum and nothing has anything to do with anything else, ever.
Also, Palin is a freak who has compared herself to Queen Esther in the past. Though again, who knows if that was her idea or if one of her advisers came up with that one, too.
She likely meant the character on Sanford & Son.
While our country's mindset should be mourning victims, hoping the best for the survivors and addressing the reasons this happened, it is instead focused on attacking and defending the one Sara Palin.
There are not enough beds or mental health care facilities to deal with THAT insanity.
I hope you're including yourself there.
The notion that everyone should be mourning 24/7 and not discussing or considering anything else is just code for "I don't like this discussion." Yet you've been taking part in it throughout.
Actually my stance all along is that there is no reason for Ms. Wasilla to have even be mentioned in this thread.
Unless you're equivocatin' like a motherfucker
Yeah, that was your stance. And having stated it, you went on to post numerous other non-mourning comments about that and other things, during the course of which you mentioned Palin.
i'm glad that it looks highly probably that GG is gonna pull through.
Anyone heard to what extent she is likely to recover her faculties??
and i dont know what could possibly define toughness more than surviving a bullet to the BRAIN!!! the lady is a champ!!!!!
I really hope she makes a full recovery and uses this in campaigning and debates..."well, sure the state is in a tough financial situation, but i've been in tougher situations and made it out okay"
I'm not defending Palin, as much as I am pointing out the absolute redonkulousness of the charges against her. The left isn't trying to just bully Palin into keeping quiet, they want anyone who doesn;t agree with their agenda to shut up, and this is how they do it. First they tried to shut everyone up by calling anyone who disagreed with them racist, now they are accusing us all of inciting murder.
As for blood libel. Here's acclaimed Harvard pinhead Alan Dershowitz's take on it, so you better get one of your long knives ready for him now too.
The term ???blood libel??? has taken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although its historical origins were in theologically based false accusations against the Jews and the Jewish People,its current usage is far broader. I myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the propriety of using this widely used term.
The left isn't trying to just bully Palin into keeping quiet, they want anyone who doesn;t agree with their agenda to shut up, and this is how they do it. First they tried to shut everyone up by calling anyone who disagreed with them racist, now they are accusing us all of inciting murder.
i'm glad that it looks highly probably that GG is gonna pull through.
Anyone heard to what extent she is likely to recover her faculties??
and i dont know what could possibly define toughness more than surviving a bullet to the BRAIN!!! the lady is a champ!!!!!
I really hope she makes a full recovery and uses this in campaigning and debates..."well, sure the state is in a tough financial situation, but i've been in tougher situations and made it out okay"
Our newspaper had a little thing today on the woman who took the 9yo Christina Taylor Green there.
The woman is still in the hospital. Her husband says she will heal from her bullet wounds. Her mental wounds will take much longer.
Unofficially, when asked to show 2 fingers Gabby makes the peace sign. Or the victory sign. Her friends can't decide which.
I'm not defending Palin, as much as I am pointing out the absolute redonkulousness of the charges against her. The left isn't trying to just bully Palin into keeping quiet, they want anyone who doesn;t agree with their agenda to shut up, and this is how they do it. First they tried to shut everyone up by calling anyone who disagreed with them racist, now they are accusing us all of inciting murder.
The endless self-pity of the right-wing is really coming out in this episode.
"Ooh, the bullies of the left are trying to silence us! Poor, poor, helpless us!"
Look, when that useless doper Limbaugh said yesterday that Loughner had the full support of the Democratic Party I didn't see a single lefty who was a big enough pussy to snivel about "an attempt to silence us." They just had the correct reaction. They laughed at him and called him an asshole. Is that another "attempt to silence him"?
If the "charges" (sheesh) against Palin are wrong, why did she wipe her site? Is she gutless or stupid or both? Seems like she silenced her own damn self, which might have been her first sensible public moment.
I'm not defending Palin, as much as I am pointing out the absolute redonkulousness of the charges against her. The left isn't trying to just bully Palin into keeping quiet, they want anyone who doesn;t agree with their agenda to shut up, and this is how they do it. First they tried to shut everyone up by calling anyone who disagreed with them racist, now they are accusing us all of inciting murder.
As for blood libel. Here's acclaimed Harvard pinhead Alan Dershowitz's take on it, so you better get one of your long knives ready for him now too.
The term ???blood libel??? has taken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although its historical origins were in theologically based false accusations against the Jews and the Jewish People,its current usage is far broader. I myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the propriety of using this widely used term.
I now regret having introduced the blood libel thing into this thread. It's not that I don't find it noteworthy (it was/is), but it's allowed saba to sidestep the point I originally made: that Palin is cynically playing the victim in this whole tragedy. Saba denied that she is, and hasn't yet explained himself.
I don't really see how saying "I am the victim of a blood libel" could conceivably be viewed as anything other than playing the victim.
I'm not defending Palin, as much as I am pointing out the absolute redonkulousness of the charges against her. The left isn't trying to just bully Palin into keeping quiet, they want anyone who doesn;t agree with their agenda to shut up, and this is how they do it. First they tried to shut everyone up by calling anyone who disagreed with them racist, now they are accusing us all of inciting murder.
As for blood libel. Here's acclaimed Harvard pinhead Alan Dershowitz's take on it, so you better get one of your long knives ready for him now too.
The term ???blood libel??? has taken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although its historical origins were in theologically based false accusations against the Jews and the Jewish People,its current usage is far broader. I myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the propriety of using this widely used term.
I now regret having introduced the blood libel thing into this thread. It's not that I don't find it noteworthy (it was/is), but it's allowed saba to sidestep the point I originally made: that Palin is cynically playing the victim in this whole tragedy. Saba denied that she is, and hasn't yet explained himself.
I don't really see how saying "I am the victim of a blood libel" could conceivably be viewed as anything other than playing the victim.
obama is honouring/eulogizing the victims and heroes right now:
@8:12 CST dude is saying the right shit......I'm proud.......and that's been a while.
i am really feeling this speech.
this part in particular:
You see, when a tragedy like this strikes, it is part of our nature to demand explanations - to try to impose some order on the chaos, and make sense out of that which seems senseless. Already we've seen a national conversation commence, not only about the motivations behind these killings, but about everything from the merits of gun safety laws to the adequacy of our mental health systems. Much of this process, of debating what might be done to prevent such tragedies in the future, is an essential ingredient in our exercise of self-government.
But at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized - at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do - it's important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds.
Scripture tells us that there is evil in the world, and that terrible things happen for reasons that defy human understanding. In the words of Job, "when I looked for light, then came darkness." Bad things happen, and we must guard against simple explanations in the aftermath.
For the truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man's mind.
So yes, we must examine all the facts behind this tragedy. We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence. We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.
But what we can't do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together.
Comments
LOL!!! can we use that phrase from now on instead of "false equivalency".
Yes, very difficult.
Laws differ from state to state.
We managed to get a relative in for evaluation in MD.
I think they were able to hold him for 48 hours.
In some cases if they can start a patient on medication they are more likely to stay voluntarily.
I think my relative refused medication.
He has guns.
Actually my stance all along is that there is no reason for Ms. Wasilla to have even be mentioned in this thread.
Unless you're equivocatin' like a motherfucker
That sounds terrible.....and dangerous.
And if god forbid he goes off the deep end and does something irrational where would you place the blame?
In terms of violent behavior, it is paranoid schizophrenics who tend to be violent. (In rare cases.)
BUT, I do worry about his ex and 2 daughters. The guy is filled with hatred.
Just as in this case, I would put the blame on him or course.
But I would feel loads of guilt. I wish there was more we could do. I wish it was easier to get him mental health care.
BTW: He is a rightwingtalkradiolisteningpalinlovingxian nut.
Yeah, that was your stance. And having stated it, you went on to post numerous other non-mourning comments about that and other things, during the course of which you mentioned Palin.
So are you insane, too?
And given all of that, if he shot a Democratic elected official, would it:
A. Make you think more highly of wingnut hate speech?
B. Make you think less highly of wingnut hate speech?
C. Make no difference in how you think about wingnut hate speech?
If I'm reading things right it seems that the right-wing position is that the answer should always be C, no matter what, and that it's indecent to even ask the question unless you have proof that Rush or Palin actually hired the guy to do the killing.
Other than that, everything happens in a vacuum and nothing has anything to do with anything else, ever.
Am I misstating their position?
No question.
I would imagine that the great majority of weapons used in homicides in the U.S. are "illegal" and not registered with the owner/user.
Anyone heard to what extent she is likely to recover her faculties??
and i dont know what could possibly define toughness more than surviving a bullet to the BRAIN!!! the lady is a champ!!!!!
I really hope she makes a full recovery and uses this in campaigning and debates..."well, sure the state is in a tough financial situation, but i've been in tougher situations and made it out okay"
I really doubt this particular fella had the kind of relationships that could've gotten him an illegal firearm, though.
As for blood libel. Here's acclaimed Harvard pinhead Alan Dershowitz's take on it, so you better get one of your long knives ready for him now too.
The term ???blood libel??? has taken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although its historical origins were in theologically based false accusations against the Jews and the Jewish People,its current usage is far broader. I myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the propriety of using this widely used term.
If he went out and bought smoke he probably could have picked up a gun too.....don't ya think?
I don't, no. I don't know what it's like in Texas, or Arizona... I've never lived anywhere where getting a gun was as easy as getting some weed.
:NO:
Well, you clearly are.
She can't really be blamed for the shootings, that much is obvious. She shouldn't feel the need to go on the defensive.
However, her most recent comments are unbelievably tactless and self-serving.
I don't think anybody will know this for months, but she's doing far better than she could be expected to do so far.
There was a guy in Italy who was shot in the eye, on New Year's. He sneezed the bullet out and is expected to make a full recovery.
Our newspaper had a little thing today on the woman who took the 9yo Christina Taylor Green there.
The woman is still in the hospital. Her husband says she will heal from her bullet wounds. Her mental wounds will take much longer.
Unofficially, when asked to show 2 fingers Gabby makes the peace sign. Or the victory sign. Her friends can't decide which.
The endless self-pity of the right-wing is really coming out in this episode.
"Ooh, the bullies of the left are trying to silence us! Poor, poor, helpless us!"
Look, when that useless doper Limbaugh said yesterday that Loughner had the full support of the Democratic Party I didn't see a single lefty who was a big enough pussy to snivel about "an attempt to silence us." They just had the correct reaction. They laughed at him and called him an asshole. Is that another "attempt to silence him"?
If the "charges" (sheesh) against Palin are wrong, why did she wipe her site? Is she gutless or stupid or both? Seems like she silenced her own damn self, which might have been her first sensible public moment.
I now regret having introduced the blood libel thing into this thread. It's not that I don't find it noteworthy (it was/is), but it's allowed saba to sidestep the point I originally made: that Palin is cynically playing the victim in this whole tragedy. Saba denied that she is, and hasn't yet explained himself.
I don't really see how saying "I am the victim of a blood libel" could conceivably be viewed as anything other than playing the victim.
And who quotes Alan Dershowitz any way?
Peter King: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/11/congressman-pete-king-introduce-gun-safety-arizona-shooting/#ixzz1AryLvJIg
Louis Gohmert: http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0111/Gohmert_drafts_bill_to_allow_guns_on_House_floor.html
Dan Burton: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/gop-rep-wants-to-enclose-house.html
A big plastic bubble filled with armed Republicans IS what I want for my birthday. How did they know?
@8:12 CST dude is saying the right shit......I'm proud.......and that's been a while.
i am really feeling this speech.
this part in particular: