Agree with all of this ^^^^ - Alex Macpherson is the only Guardian writer whose opinions on hip-hop are worth bothering with, precisely because he doesn't begin from the same implied position which asserts that obviously, none of this new stuff is as good as Nation Of Millions, 3 Feet High, Deltron 3030, Operation Doomsday, Immortal Technique, Dilla, blahblahblah
That's a weird list since it can't be presumed that people who like parts of that like everything on there.
In any case, I can't really agree with any of these core points that Macpherson raises: "his [production] talents have severely deteriorated since his days as rap's golden boy producer. This album offers beats that retread past glories."
As well as "[the new album] maintains the steady downwards trajectory of West's albums."
I did love this line though: "This album offers...an emotional palette narrowed to a range roughly as wide as West's navel."
the only reason these ridiculous comparisons are being made to ( quincy jones..for real ? gtfohwtbs !?! ) p.e. etc etc.....is because rap music has sunk to all time lows in the creativity, and artistic department.
singles singles singles....people dont make quality cohesive lps with stories anymore, and the redundant bs "wealth" most brag about ( drugs sold, whips, hoes, ice blah blah) is clearly worth more than the creativity they lack.
ive heard a few tracks from this.... its clearly a pop record (rihanna?) and by no means should it be compared to public enemy's "it takes a nation".
which track resembles any of the following, sonically or lyrically ?
louder than a bomb, show em whatcha got, black steel, rebel with out a pause, dont believe the hype.... exactly.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
Its gay to mass hate or mass love.. he;s just another human being that people love to focus their own hate on or attention or whatever.. get a fucking life..
Its gay to mass hate or mass love.. he;s just another human being that people love to focus their own hate on or attention or whatever.. get a fucking life..
Its gay to mass hate or mass love.. he;s just another human being that people love to focus their own hate on or attention or whatever.. get a fucking life..
the only reason these ridiculous comparisons are being made to ( quincy jones..for real ? gtfohwtbs !?! ) p.e. etc etc.....is because rap music has sunk to all time lows in the creativity, and artistic department.
Finally read this thread after hearing about it from the homie. I listened to the whole album, straight through last night on the way down to SD.
Everyone I personally know here who likes this record, y'all have some questions to answer. This shit is unlistenable. Most everyone here bitches about "elbows" on every decent album, or is crickets when a good rap album comes out, but for you dudes riding hard for this, I can't help but lose a grip of respect for your taste and ears. Sorry. And thats tame considering what I feel like writing right now. The idea that a bunch of people who I otherwise have a lot of respect for when it comes to musical talent, taste, and history are gushing over this....man I feel like I'm in the twilight zone right now and up is down, down is up.
I watch those near and dear to me, from the friends I grew up with, to the artists I grew up listening to, to my friends out there really doing it in 2010, put in years of work on albums and performances, sweating the smallest details and working themselves to the bone, only to get picked apart by criticism or met with silence from the very people who compare Kanye to Quincy, who aren't willing to accept any critique of his self-proclaimed masterpiece. By the same people who years back would have called this man-purse motherfucker by his true colors. Who at some point in the past might have recognized that the whole album is one big pro tools plugin, and the faux-artistic BS is a slap in the face to decades of musicianship, engineering, and production. Who years back would have the balls to boo this ego-maniac off a stage.
Y'all are drinking the kool-aid and it's not up for debate. Everyone on here probably knows a dozen people who could make, or have made, better albums than this. Don't believe the hype. Trust your ears and drown out all this celebrity clamor. We're all desperate for something new, fresh, exciting - there's so little out there truly pushing those boundaries. I'm not on some strictly old school shit. I want motherfuckers to be making crazy out there records. Playing instruments. Spending weeks in the studio. Taking risks, asking their fans to take a chance on some truly different and genuine shit, even if it means losing people and burning bridges.
But this isn't it.
I don't care what Payolafork or any other critic has to say, and the details of the album have already been hashed out. I call bullshit and it saddens me that anyone I know would stoop down to this level. I know Soulstrut isn't usually the venue for honest and lengthy posts but this has me on edge.
Ha ha ha the level off asshurt in this thread continues to grow.
I still don't understand the vitriol. Without rereading this whole thing I don't think anyone stepped forward and said that this was the only album of importance this year or that it shat on all other rap releases from the West throne high above.
Some people think it's decent, some think it's fantastic, others don't like it. I know this is the Strut and everything but it's not like it's being force-fed down your throats, fucking live a little.
another review from the national, commenting on the reviews themselves. (post modern!). like this bit
""Baby, I got a plan / Run away as fast as you can," drones the chorus to Runaway. Given that this plan probably involves paragliding out of a rhinestone helicopter, using a tiger-skin rug as a wind-sail, Baby would be well advised to take heed and make herself scarce. As would anyone expecting a masterpiece from this album. "
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
First things first - "Payolafork"? Really? GTFOOHWTBS. You're lucky if a label will even send out review copies these days, so the idea of them FedEx'ing a big bag of cash and chisel to any outlet, even one as supposedly influential as Pitchfork, in exchange for a glowing review is, quite literally, laughable.
Are people really that mad about a Kanye album getting a 10 rating in Pitchfork that they'll go on a "fuck all y'all no-taste-havin' muthafuckas" rampage against anyone who has a good word for it? Or indeed will start a thread slamming the entire concept of music criticism as, one presumes, an outraged over-reaction to that one review? Because it seems to me that this is what's really at the root of the debate here - dudes getting mad that people happen to like something they don't, specifically Kanye. To which I can only say, if you're gonna act like a good review for a Kanye West album is a personal affront to your entire values system, then your sense of perspective might need recalibrating.
I'm sorry for your boys who put in work on shit that got overlooked or received a bad review - nobody likes getting bad reviews. Even when I've given something a bad review, it's always been an honest one. But your boys getting dumped on doesn't have a damn thing to do with Kanye. What, you think he used up everyone else's quota of good reviews? If Pitchfuck had dumped on his record too, I seriously doubt you'd be up in here spouting homophobic bullshit like "man-purse motherfucker" about him. I mean, seriously? Grow up.
For the record, I still think this is an exceptional album. Although I'm open to the opinions of people who are critical of it on a technical level, I could no more give a fuck whether Kanye made the entire thing on a laptop with Protools than I could about people out there comparing him to Quincy. My world don't stop - I can still bump this and Gula Matari, and they both sound good to me. Nobody is trying to tell you that you have to like it, though.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
Ulysses31nicholas said:
commenting on the reviews themselves. (post modern!).
I have read more reviews of the reviews, this thread included, than I have reviews of the music.
Everyone on here probably knows a dozen people who could make, or have made, better albums than this.
Kanye has that "it factor", though--people really connect with him, and he makes them believe and want to believe (in something big). He's clearly trying to be on that Beatles, MJ, JB level. Your boys, not so much. Nothing can bridge that gap.
I watch those near and dear to me, from the friends I grew up with, to the artists I grew up listening to, to my friends out there really doing it in 2010, put in years of work on albums and performances, sweating the smallest details and working themselves to the bone, only to get picked apart by criticism or met with silence from the very people who compare Kanye to Quincy, who aren't willing to accept any critique of his self-proclaimed masterpiece. By the same people who years back would have called this man-purse motherfucker by his true colors. Who at some point in the past might have recognized that the whole album is one big pro tools plugin, and the faux-artistic BS is a slap in the face to decades of musicianship, engineering, and production. Who years back would have the balls to boo this ego-maniac off a stage.
Hilarious. Nobody owes your friends a damn thing, least of all the listening public. This album is almost preternatural in its ability to provoke hurt feelings.
Comments
That is fucking weediculous.
That's a weird list since it can't be presumed that people who like parts of that like everything on there.
In any case, I can't really agree with any of these core points that Macpherson raises: "his [production] talents have severely deteriorated since his days as rap's golden boy producer. This album offers beats that retread past glories."
As well as "[the new album] maintains the steady downwards trajectory of West's albums."
I did love this line though: "This album offers...an emotional palette narrowed to a range roughly as wide as West's navel."
Milestone Performance
the only reason these ridiculous comparisons are being made to ( quincy jones..for real ? gtfohwtbs !?! ) p.e. etc etc.....is because rap music has sunk to all time lows in the creativity, and artistic department.
singles singles singles....people dont make quality cohesive lps with stories anymore, and the redundant bs "wealth" most brag about ( drugs sold, whips, hoes, ice blah blah) is clearly worth more than the creativity they lack.
ive heard a few tracks from this.... its clearly a pop record (rihanna?) and by no means should it be compared to public enemy's "it takes a nation".
which track resembles any of the following, sonically or lyrically ?
louder than a bomb, show em whatcha got, black steel, rebel with out a pause, dont believe the hype.... exactly.
Needledroppin' = THAT REAL SCHITT
one of the many lost arts :real_headz:
DOLOBEATS.com??? 'splains the silence.
i can't believe it's not butter.
hahahahaha
totes, brah
Fixed.
YES. I agree.
Everyone I personally know here who likes this record, y'all have some questions to answer. This shit is unlistenable. Most everyone here bitches about "elbows" on every decent album, or is crickets when a good rap album comes out, but for you dudes riding hard for this, I can't help but lose a grip of respect for your taste and ears. Sorry. And thats tame considering what I feel like writing right now. The idea that a bunch of people who I otherwise have a lot of respect for when it comes to musical talent, taste, and history are gushing over this....man I feel like I'm in the twilight zone right now and up is down, down is up.
I watch those near and dear to me, from the friends I grew up with, to the artists I grew up listening to, to my friends out there really doing it in 2010, put in years of work on albums and performances, sweating the smallest details and working themselves to the bone, only to get picked apart by criticism or met with silence from the very people who compare Kanye to Quincy, who aren't willing to accept any critique of his self-proclaimed masterpiece. By the same people who years back would have called this man-purse motherfucker by his true colors. Who at some point in the past might have recognized that the whole album is one big pro tools plugin, and the faux-artistic BS is a slap in the face to decades of musicianship, engineering, and production. Who years back would have the balls to boo this ego-maniac off a stage.
Y'all are drinking the kool-aid and it's not up for debate. Everyone on here probably knows a dozen people who could make, or have made, better albums than this. Don't believe the hype. Trust your ears and drown out all this celebrity clamor. We're all desperate for something new, fresh, exciting - there's so little out there truly pushing those boundaries. I'm not on some strictly old school shit. I want motherfuckers to be making crazy out there records. Playing instruments. Spending weeks in the studio. Taking risks, asking their fans to take a chance on some truly different and genuine shit, even if it means losing people and burning bridges.
But this isn't it.
I don't care what Payolafork or any other critic has to say, and the details of the album have already been hashed out. I call bullshit and it saddens me that anyone I know would stoop down to this level. I know Soulstrut isn't usually the venue for honest and lengthy posts but this has me on edge.
sounds like some serious business...
I still don't understand the vitriol. Without rereading this whole thing I don't think anyone stepped forward and said that this was the only album of importance this year or that it shat on all other rap releases from the West throne high above.
Some people think it's decent, some think it's fantastic, others don't like it. I know this is the Strut and everything but it's not like it's being force-fed down your throats, fucking live a little.
another review from the national, commenting on the reviews themselves. (post modern!). like this bit
""Baby, I got a plan / Run away as fast as you can," drones the chorus to Runaway. Given that this plan probably involves paragliding out of a rhinestone helicopter, using a tiger-skin rug as a wind-sail, Baby would be well advised to take heed and make herself scarce. As would anyone expecting a masterpiece from this album. "
Are people really that mad about a Kanye album getting a 10 rating in Pitchfork that they'll go on a "fuck all y'all no-taste-havin' muthafuckas" rampage against anyone who has a good word for it? Or indeed will start a thread slamming the entire concept of music criticism as, one presumes, an outraged over-reaction to that one review? Because it seems to me that this is what's really at the root of the debate here - dudes getting mad that people happen to like something they don't, specifically Kanye. To which I can only say, if you're gonna act like a good review for a Kanye West album is a personal affront to your entire values system, then your sense of perspective might need recalibrating.
I'm sorry for your boys who put in work on shit that got overlooked or received a bad review - nobody likes getting bad reviews. Even when I've given something a bad review, it's always been an honest one. But your boys getting dumped on doesn't have a damn thing to do with Kanye. What, you think he used up everyone else's quota of good reviews? If Pitchfuck had dumped on his record too, I seriously doubt you'd be up in here spouting homophobic bullshit like "man-purse motherfucker" about him. I mean, seriously? Grow up.
For the record, I still think this is an exceptional album. Although I'm open to the opinions of people who are critical of it on a technical level, I could no more give a fuck whether Kanye made the entire thing on a laptop with Protools than I could about people out there comparing him to Quincy. My world don't stop - I can still bump this and Gula Matari, and they both sound good to me. Nobody is trying to tell you that you have to like it, though.
I have read more reviews of the reviews, this thread included, than I have reviews of the music.
Hilarious. Nobody owes your friends a damn thing, least of all the listening public. This album is almost preternatural in its ability to provoke hurt feelings.