The thread where you hate on Kanye's new album

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  • marumaru 1,450 Posts
    you're right. i purged all those record long ago.

  • DJ_EnkiDJ_Enki 6,471 Posts
    Can we talk about Kanye's performance on SNL under the moniker Diddy Dirty Money?

  • pcmrpcmr 5,591 Posts
    please to inform me on this
    and on dirty money is this diddy's attempt at assembling a motley crue of talented rascals a la young money

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    pcmr said:

    and on dirty money is this diddy's attempt at assembling a motley crue of talented rascals a la young money

    No, it's not


  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    deej said:

    this album sounds like him trying to impress his new dance music/indie rock and fashion and art world friends.

  • I disagree with a lot of its conclusions but I suppose it's well-written

  • I've listened to the record a lot over the past couple weeks. Relatively final thoughts:

    Drums are indeed thin. I can't decide if this is intentional. Some songs it works better than others.

    1. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy - Not mad. Wish the drums were mixed a little higher. It should've ended before the final coda, which is annoying enough that I might edit it just for my own private listening.

    2. Gorgeous - Love it. Some of Kanye's best rapping on here. Raekwon fits, he seems to have mastered the Cuban Linx 2.0 style that everyone wants from him, yet it's clear he stepped it up for the level of this record.

    3. Power - I didn't love this single when it dropped earlier in the year but I like it a lot more in the context of the record. I feel like it's been a bit re-mixed/mastered/touched up for the album release? Great (except for "abomination of Obama's nation" - that bridge almost ruins the entire thing. In fact, fuck the whole 3rd verse. I wish that had been left off. "I'm killing this shit/y'all feeling this shit" is a 50 Cent rip-off, clearly intentional, but it's lazy as hell and doesn't stand up to the rest of the rapping. The first four bars are as strong as anything on the album.)

    4. All Of The Lights - Like Brian said a number of pages back, I can't always decide if I love or hate the drums here. It's odd that they're mixed so far out front when on other cuts they're barely there. Obviously intentional so as to be "jarring". But overall, it jams. I don't mind Rihanna here, usually I do. But I do wish that they would've used the stacked and layered voices of the fittyleven other vocalists for her part of the hook, too.

    5. Monster - one of my favorite songs here, sans Jay's verse. The beat is murky. Merky? Drums are, again, a bit too thin for my taste but the active pattern compensates for that and enables the track's movement. Kanye doesn't like crisp snares? The bass is thick enough. All of the verses here are strong, except for Jay's... the novelty of Nicki Minaj's clean-up performance has worn off but not so much that I can't still dig it.

    6. So Appalled - Fucking great. This is what I'm talking about when I say that the drums work well within the overall beat, I don't think I would want them mixed much higher, and although they do sound a bit thin, it contributes to this whole disaffected sound - Jay's the only one who actually sounds appalled. RZA punch-ins are extremely sloppy, which for some reason seems intentional... love Swizz' voice on this. Kanye tweeted something (fucking) ridiculous along these lines, "Swizz voice is like an instrument..." but I can totally see what he means, there's a certain timbre to it that works tonally very well with the melody.

    7. Devil In A New Dress - Love this beat! Kind of wish Ross wasn't on it because he doesn't stick with the theme. But he doesn't ruin it, if it were just a typical Ross record it probably would be dope. Otherwise no complaints... one of my favorites.

    8. Runaway - Now this, I really don't like. Don't dig the beat, the rhyme-singing, Pusha T... I do see the role it plays in the flow of the album, will probably not FF if I'm listening casually, don't mind the extended coda... actually, the coolest thing about this is the inhaled breaths through the vocoder. Shit sounds really broken, the strain of having yelled your voice hoarse, having little left to say, still going because you don't want to admit you're done.

    9. Hell Of A Life - I don't have much to say about this... it's good. I'm not bowled over by the Sabbath hook, I don't hate it either. It jams.

    10. Blame Game - perhaps the strongest thing on the album. The low drums are perfect for the track, the break shuffling somewhere in the background lends itself to an overall feeling of treading water. I've been here, and listening to it feels like a blow to the gut. Andrew said it "hurts my dick". That's about right. Could do without the spoken word rant... it's not executed well.

    11. Lost In The World - does Kanye even rap on this? I guess he does have a 16 but it's the least memorable thing about the track, which is conversely one of the most memorable things on the record. I'm kind of indifferent about the Gil Scott-Heron thing at the end... it works. w/r/t the linked review above: "Who Will Survive In America" is far from the first time race is addressed on the record.

    The one place where I feel Kanye has slipped a little here is indeed on the rapping. There are some pretty clunky lines across the record; that's nothing new for Kanye, and it's not enough to make me dislike any one song, but I feel like he might be phoning it in a little. I spent a lot of time the last couple weeks listening to his first three (rap) records and the lyrics on Graduation (which I seem to like more than anyone else) and MBDTF are a definite step down from the first two records. That seems easily attributable to the fact that he really had something to prove as a rapper back then (remember all the "Kanye can't rap" folks?) whereas now he seems to think that he can hit cruise control once he's landed a few early blows. You can almost see the thought process: "man, I spazzed on the first four bars... ok, let me just fill the rest out." Whereas on earlier records you can hear an intent to finish strong. Not so on a lot of these songs. Q-Tip described the recording of this album as "by committee" and it makes me wonder if anyone's really raising their voice to tell Kanye that this or that or the other thing sucks or is sub-par or could be done better. It sure doesn't sound like it.

    Still, I love where he went with this record sonically, I feel like thematically he had to write this record as half self-aggrandizing, half self-loathing, and surprisingly it speaks to me. "I'm living in that 21st Century, doing something mean to it" seems like a mission statement for the record, and I find it alternately thrilling and depressing, as if it's meant to be post-apocalyptic but we all missed the extinction level event. I have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of repeated plays. 8/10


    (So the number here holds a bit more weight, I'm revising my Cee-Lo review downward to 5/10. I apologize for that one.)

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts
    I keep wishing this record were either smarter or more honest, one of the two. It's not honest enough that I feel like I'm really getting warts and all, but nor is it smart enough that I feel like whatever's being held back is being held back intentionally. It's not focused enough to be a real deep listen, but it's calculated enough that I can't quite convince myself to hear its inconsistency as, you know, a sign of its flawed humanity or whatever.

    Sonically, I think it's kinda lacking presence. It's relevant, though, and you can't front on that.

    It's definitely a weather-report record, and as such it does deliver a certain electricity. But while it may stand for a minute as a sonic/aspirational yardstick, I can't imagine that in and of itself it will still have much spark six months from now. I'll be surprised if this one retains cultural or individual resonance beyond its commercial moment like 808s did.

  • james said:
    I keep wishing this record were either smarter or more honest, one of the two. It's not honest enough that I feel like I'm really getting warts and all, but nor is it smart enough that I feel like whatever's being held back is being held back intentionally. It's not focused enough to be a real deep listen

    I disagree with the last point - the only way I can really appreciate this is as an end to end listen. I don't know if that's how you define "deep"; I can at least say, "it's a listen."

    The smart/honest dichotomy is exactly what I was trying to get at with the phoned-in writing; I get the sense that rather than digging further down, crumpling up a piece of paper and starting over, saying to himself "that's not exactly it"... he gets somewhere, maybe hits a wall, says "oh fuck it, I don't even really give a shit" and the rest of the hypothetical verse gets written absent any real insight or wit. I'm afraid that's what we're stuck with, with Kanye; I'll take it, but I agree, it's a little frustrating.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    james said:
    I can't imagine that in and of itself it will still have much spark six WEEKS from now.

  • jamesjames chicago 1,863 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    james said:
    I keep wishing this record were either smarter or more honest, one of the two. It's not honest enough that I feel like I'm really getting warts and all, but nor is it smart enough that I feel like whatever's being held back is being held back intentionally. It's not focused enough to be a real deep listen

    I disagree with the last point - the only way I can really appreciate this is as an end to end listen. I don't know if that's how you define "deep"; I can at least say, "it's a listen."
    I think I'd probably call what you're talking about a "full listen."

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that this doesn't feel to me like the kind of deliberate, fully realized, nuanced record that's going to gain depth and reveal new things over time. I mean, there's some stuff on it that I liked after hearing the third time that I didn't like the first time, but that's not really the same thing.

    I think it's a good record, just not a real rich one.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    stills from Monster video.












  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    It's the work of a failed provocateur boorishly brandishing his ancient affects.

    "I like the beats on Kanye West's new album. I love the inversion of that famous line about Malcolm X--"That's too much power for one man to have." I think he's an improved MC. But I'm a little amazed that no one's disturbed by "Champagne wishes/30 white bitches" as a hook. I'm more amazed at his empty employment of white women as objects. I'm less amazed, but pretty depressed, that colorism is back--"Rolling with some light-skin chicks and some Kelly Rowlands," is little more than "you're pretty for a dark-skin girl" in this postracial era.

    All told, the album strikes me as incredibly, almost casually, racist. On some level, I wonder what would have become of John Mayer, had he cut a video with dead black women strewn about and invoked black women throughout his lyrics in the manner Kanye does. But moralism misses the point here. The problem isn't simply racism or sexism, but boring racism, boring sexism that hearkens back to the black power macho of Amiri Baraka and Eldridge Cleaver at their worst. It's the work of a failed provocateur boorishly brandishing his ancient affects. The obvious defense is that this is an exploration of West's psyche, of his fantasy. But actually it isn't. This is an aggressively external album obsessed with dismissing haters, slut-shaming women (black and white), and ultimately, not with Kanye or his fantasy, but with what you will surely say about his fantasy.

    Never has someone shouted "Kiss my ass" and sounded less convincing than Kanye West. No, seriously. Paying Chris Rock to play the cuckolder and yell, "Yeeze reupholstered my pussy," is not a stroke of genius, it's a lack of artistic courage. It means even on arguably the most emotionally painful cut, you're not convinced that the song can stand on its own. Always when listening to Kanye, I feel like I'm in a Monty Python sketch and someone is repeatedly yakking, repeatedly announcing "Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge!" I love the line "they can kiss my whole ass," but when it's followed by "More specifically, they can kiss my asshole," you fail. Lyrically.

    And I like the album. I like "POWER." I like "All Of The Lights" I like damn near every beat on the record. Nicki Minaj is a terror, and her closer on "Monster" called me back to Busta in the era of "Scenario." But maybe I'm old. Or maybe I can't bear to re-hash Soul On Ice over some (admittedly dope) beats. More likely, I'm tired of rappers who deploy slut-shame to smoke-screen their near total fear of pussy. The comparison with Prince is, again, instructive. There's something hard about submission, and something really weak in Kanye's fear of losing control, in his need to address your commentary on him losing control."

  • In before Batmon!

    (admittedly dope)

    maybe I'm old

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    I dont listen to the album as a whole, but i have my favorite tracks connected to my NBA 2K11 Arena music.

  • CosmoCosmo 9,768 Posts
    bassie said:
    I'm tired of rappers who deploy slut-shame to smoke-screen their near total fear of pussy.

    Sooooooooo good!...

  • choice quote from the comments on that Ta Nehisi-Coates article:

    I was blown away by his performance on SNL last month, but the more I listen to this album, the more he reminds me of one of those young punk chefs on Top Chef who serve "rare" poultry, insult the judges, and start crying during the exit interview after they're voted off the show.

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    My boy Jon on some Kanye meta-criticism:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/arts/music/03kanye.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print

    An Album and Its Buzz
    By JON CARAMANICA
    Welcome to 2011, a year that ??? once the last of the snow is scraped away ??? will bring new hope, the promise of renewal, a chance to wake up in a world in which Kanye West???s ???My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy??? is not the consensus pick for album of the year.

    Its reign has been tyrannical ??? surprisingly, less because of Mr. West???s maniacal and loud sense of self-importance than because of the unimaginative group-think the album has spawned. In the waning weeks of last year it was hard to read about music without being assured that this album, Mr. West???s fifth, was a world beater. It topped lists. It received perfect scores. It got ???don???t ask, don???t tell??? policy repealed. (That was Lady Gaga actually.) It secured passage of the Dream Act. (Actually, not even this album was powerful; maybe his ???Late Registration??? could have done it.)

    Lack of superpowers aside, ???My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy??? (Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam) remains, six weeks after its release, a phenomenal album, third on my own year-end list, textured enough to still be revealing new crannies upon repeated listens, and alluring enough still to warrant those repeated listens.

    But consensus is less a measure of greatness than of social climate. And when the year-end lists of several prominent outlets with different demographics and agendas ??? the magazines Rolling Stone, Vibe and Spin; the Web sites Pitchfork and Stereogum ??? share the same winner, it almost certainly indicates intangibles at play. Blessedly there was no consensus on No. 2: the Black Keys, Rick Ross, Deerhunter, LCD Soundsystem and Arcade Fire each got a nod. But that reflected a lack of other widely agreed upon ambitious albums; maybe Mr. West was a titan in an off year.

    More vexing were some of the ratings, with outlets falling over themselves to grant Mr. West a top score: a rare 10.0 at Pitchfork, a slightly less rare 5 stars at Rolling Stone (which also gave that rating to his second album, ???Late Registration???), an A from Entertainment Weekly (in fairness, a not infrequent grade at that magazine). And so such reviews are bones dropped for approval by tail-wagging puppies.

    These ratings and rankings make a statement about not only the presumed quality of the album, but also about institutional decisions regarding an artist???s worthiness, and about those institutions??? desire to be seen acknowledging an artist???s worthiness. Enjoying an album is a private, micro affair; certainly not everyone on the staffs of those publications felt that Mr. West???s album was the best. But advocating for it is a macro decision, carrying the weight of many ??? and by extension, all, not one.

    Mr. West received these simultaneous accolades for several reasons. There???s the recent egalitarian streak in pop criticism ??? the death of nongeneralists ??? even if this specific embrace of Mr. West is merely a case of exceptionalism masking as democracy. ???Twisted Fantasy??? is a hip-hop album accessible to both insiders and outsiders, arriving in a moment in which other genres are as open-armed as ever. Since his debut album Mr. West has boldly asserted his primacy, demanding that others ??? critics, award shows, other artists ??? fall in line. By asking to be judged at a higher level Mr. West implicitly allows for it by creating the language for that acclaim. And maybe in some way fear plays a role, with institutions worried that history will not smile on dissenters.

    Mr. West also spent months doing things critics like: using the Internet to reveal his inner self, which, it turned out, was pretty much the same as his outer self; giving away music; and providing a peek into his methods in the process.

    Finally, and most boringly, year-end lists often favor late-year releases, when the sense of anticipation fulfilled is still fresh. In this regard music critics are no better than Oscar voters. The last thing they remember as they fill out their ballots is the triumph of Mr. West???s album, or reading about someone else???s insistent perspective on the triumph of Mr. West???s album, or assuming ??? rightly, at it happens ??? that for the next few weeks before the actual year???s end, nothing they or anyone else will do will detract from that triumph, or perception of triumph.

    Having such strict agreement among critics is a bit like letting the blind judge a beauty pageant: the results are sometimes unreliable, and even less translatable to the world at large.

    On the most recent Billboard album chart ???Twisted Fantasy??? is No. 19; the majority of albums above it had been commercially available as long or longer. (The same is true even when the chart???s three holiday albums are excluded.) More tellingly, Mr. West has no song in the Top 75 pop singles ??? ???Runaway??? is No. 76, and ???Monster??? is No. 100. ???Twisted Fantasy??? may become Mr. West???s first album without a Top 10 pop single. Perhaps all the critical love has turned it into a cult album.

    ???My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy??? may or may not have been the best album of 2010. Believe what you will. Either way it???s not even the best Kanye West album. So now what ??? turn it up to 11.0? Plead for extra credit? Develop a new ranking system?

    Mr. West???s next album can only be a disappointment, a step down from the perfect ratings and universal acclaim he???s been openly craving since the beginning of his career and has finally wrested from the last constituency most people look to for approbation: critics.

    Now that the ballots have been counted and the legal challenges purged from the court system, Mr. West is free to misstep ??? or, rather, to misstep egregiously in a way that can???t be written off as part of his eccentric, sometimes galling genius. He made a terrific album, but mainly he avoided doing things that critics wouldn???t like. (Nonetheless there was still the occasional churlish dismissal of the music based on the absurdity of the man.)

    Late last week an unfinished cut of the video for ???Monster,??? one of the most lauded tracks from ???Twisted Fantasy,??? leaked online. It opens with a woman, dangling by her neck from a chain, lifeless down to her peep-toe pumps. Later Mr. West raps, in bed, next to a pair of limp women. It???s a grotesquerie, far beyond the slaughter for sport one might expect of a horror film, the obvious touchstone. (The video may be the antithesis of his collaboration with the artist Vanessa Beecroft two years ago for the release of ???808???s & Heartbreak.???)

    It???s hard not to think of lynchings, of sexual violence. It???s hard not to feel a little nauseous, and a lot sad. The video is empty provocation and clumsy art, the move of someone who, in a climate of unchecked glorification, has been given too much rope to play with. Maybe not enough for a backlash, but had this video been released four weeks ago, certainly enough to get some people to change their votes.

    And yet for all intents and purposes it???s a 2011 problem, likely to be forgotten by December. No one will place an asterisk next to Mr. West???s 2010 wins. History is his.

  • 'I Got All The Approval I Needed,' Content Former Pop Star Says

    January 6, 2011 | ISSUE 47???01

    SPILLVILLE, IA???Following the widespread acclaim and media adulation over his latest album, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, multimillion-selling recording artist Kanye West announced Wednesday that he had finally received the exact amount of approval he needed to attain and had therefore retired from the entertainment industry to live on a small farm in Iowa..

    Though known for his outsized ego and grandstanding lyrics, West said "all of that is over now," telling reporters outside his remote two-bedroom farmhouse that after years of nonstop public attention, he was now completely secure in his sense of self and required no further affirmation.

    "My goal all along was to be praised and talked about until I reached a level of total contentment with who I am and where I belong in the world, and on Friday night of last week, I reached that level," said West, standing outside the screen door of his home in a pair of khaki slacks and a plain gray work shirt. "I finally feel satisfied and whole as a human being, which means I can stop being a famous pop star now."

    "So I just want to say thank you to everyone who bolstered my self-esteem by showering me with so much acclaim," added West, sweeping some dust from his front porch. "Because it worked. I'm good to go."

    West said he came across Pitchfork.com's perfect 10.0 review of his new release on Friday and then, immediately afterward, was informed that his album had already sold more than 800,000 copies, experiences that caused a feeling of "total, and permanent, fulfillment" to come over him.

    The internationally renowned rap star described his many displays of outlandish behavior over the years???running up on stage and interrupting Taylor Swift during the MTV Music Awards, replacing his bottom teeth with diamonds, and posing as Jesus in a crown of thorns on the cover of Rolling Stone???as attempts at self-realization that "totally paid off."

    "A lot of people thought I was crazy or egotistical for doing those things, but they were merely projections of various childhood traumas and insecurities borne of postmodern alienation," West said. "Luckily, I found ways to make up for my deep-seated psychological needs, and I am now a fully actualized adult."

    When questioned about some of the lyrics on his latest album, including lines such as "I'm trippin' off the power," and "This pimp is at the top of Mount Olympus," West chuckled lightly and replied that he had been getting "that last little bit of validation" he needed to feel emotionally adequate and confident for life.

    "Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of the work I've done," West said. "But now that I'm finally 100 percent certain that people like me and I am talented, it would be pointless to keep seeking fame and accolades."

    Since making his decision, West said he has enjoyed passing the time by chatting with the folks who sit and talk all day in front of the post office downtown, and by taking up hobbies such as bird-watching and baking.

    The 14-time Grammy Award winner also said that he recently began dating a "very nice woman" in nearby Dubuque whose identity he preferred to keep private.

    "I might still make some music from time to time, but not so I can release it and hear people's opinion of it or anything," West said. "Who cares what other people think? It's music. If I want to make music. I'll just do it for me, because it's fun."

    After answering questions for 10 minutes, West politely asked reporters to leave, saying he was "a little tired" and had some reading he would like to get done.

    "Also, please don't make this a big front-page deal in your newspapers," West said. "This isn't some juicy scoop or anything, and I honestly don't see why anyone would even want to print a story about this. But if you have to run something, just keep it short."

    "You guys know your way back to town from here, right?" West added before walking back inside.





    http://www.theonion.com/articles/fully-validated-kanye-west-retires-to-quiet-farm-i,18724/

  • that Caramanica piece is :post_modern:

    he had the following to say mere weeks before:

    "On Monday Mr. West, who is 33, will release his fifth album, ???My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy??? (Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam), and it???s terrific ??? of course it???s terrific ??? a startlingly maximalist take on East Coast rap traditionalism... Mr. West seems virtually incapable of making a bad record."

  • mannybolonemannybolone Los Angeles, CA 15,025 Posts
    Jonny_Paycheck said:
    that Caramanica piece is :post_modern:

    he had the following to say mere weeks before:

    "On Monday Mr. West, who is 33, will release his fifth album, ???My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy??? (Roc-A-Fella/Def Jam), and it???s terrific ??? of course it???s terrific ??? a startlingly maximalist take on East Coast rap traditionalism... Mr. West seems virtually incapable of making a bad record."

    Yeah - I liked Jon's article in general but I also had to fire back and say, "dude, wasn't the NYT a big part of this echo chamber?"

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Any rap critic not citing Krit Wuz Here as far and away the album of the year should no longer be able to say anything about rap ever again.
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