My 5 all-time favorite raps

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  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    Cosmo said:
    PS, this Jaheim song is the shit.

    CinisterCee said:
    sweatshop said:
    Jaheim "Aint leaving without you" > De La Soul's " Ring Ring Ring (Ha Ha Hey)"

    Kinda funny Jaheim replaces "Impeach The President" (Aaron Fuchs lawsuit-rel) with Whatnauts' own break beat. I guess if they're already handing Whatnauts' all the publishing for "Help Is On The Way"...

    you aint never lied..

  • jjrocksjjrocks 109 Posts
    This conversation:

    ME: The box is light.
    YOU: No it's not, it's painted black.
    ME: No, I meant it's heavy. Pick it up.
    YOU: BUT YOU SAID IT WAS LIGHT! IT'S PAINTED BLACK! YOU DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT BOXES. LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER REALLY DARK BOX, I BET YOU THINK THAT'S LIGHT TOO?!?!?!?!

    There's no backpeddaling. It's what I've been saying ALL ALONG. I've said from earliest posts that Slick Rick's version represents greater artistic achievement. It's just taken you this long to get it. (Except for Batmon who needs to put in some serious work in the reading comprehension department.)

    "Definitive" is a word that just OBVIOUSLY has many different meanings. The criticisms in this thread are people screaming on me for using language in a different way than they do. There's no right or wrong way to use the word "light" or "definitive."

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    It's Gucci!!!


  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    jjrocks said:

    "Definitive" is a word that just OBVIOUSLY has many different meanings. The criticisms in this thread are people screaming on me for using language in a different way than they do. There's no right or wrong way to use the word "light" or "definitive."

    Snoop recorded the definite version of that rap. Slick Rick deserves much of credit, but Snoop's version is better./quote]

    I cant read - so your just sayin - Better and Definitive is the same thing?

    Snoop version is Better and the defining version?

    What is your definition of Definitive?

  • BigKBigK 97 Posts
    I've never seen "definitive" used to mean someone's favorite or the one they personally think sounds better, because that would be almost the opposite meaning of definitive

  • BigK said:
    I've never seen "definitive" used to mean someone's favorite or the one they personally think sounds better, because that would be almost the opposite meaning of definitive

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    What's the Definitive version of DEFINITIVE?!!!!!!!!


    :get_on_my_level:

  • SIRUSSIRUS 2,554 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    It's Gucci!!!


    once more for the cheap seats...

  • jjrocksjjrocks 109 Posts
    batmon said:
    What's the Definitive version of DEFINITIVE?!!!!!!!!


    :get_on_my_level:

    Hahaha.

    Sheeeeeit. Well, if you really wanna know...

    Definitive just means G.O.A.T.

    But I don't know how to answer that question about a song until you tell me more. Greatest in terms of artistic achievement that it represents? Or are we talking about the most beautiful? There are many, many different valuable things about a song and when we make comparisons it seems like it's usually in terms of some values specified by the context. Kind of like tall. I can say "He's tall" on the basketball court and communicate one thing. If I say it on the subway, I communicate another. But if you ask: Forget about the criteria, is the song good period? That sounds about as meaningful as: Forget about whether we're comparing him to basketball players or the average American, is he tall?

    If someone tries to call me out in a favorite hip-hop verses thread, then I must be making some kind of mistake in what sounds good. I'm like the dude who tells a wine connoisseur that Carlo Rossi is amazing. Or if I'm listing some weird shit that only I like. But I don't think that's what's going here. So I used "definitive" to claim some kind of objectivity for my taste. This is a common use of the word in describing whether something sounds better or tastes better. Here's an example of exactly how I was using it:

    So, I'm asking some guy who works at a wine store the other day for recommendations and he says "Well I personally prefer this bottle, but this other bodega has made the definitive Malbec." In that context, it probably doesn't matter whether the bodega stole the recipe and added one extra ingredient. He's also not reporting his personal taste. Since we like other similar wines, I should probably follow his recommendation even if I don't like the wine at first. Other experts might disagree with him about the definitive Malbec. If they have different tastes, this disagreement will be deep and irresolvable.

    So it turns out I made a list only based on beauty and you used other additional criteria to rank songs. So I think I'm communicating one thing with by saying "Snoop's recording is better". But you guys are taking me to mean something else.

    The only question is why anyone would have ever thought we would all be using the same criteria in the first place. I don't know why I did.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    jjrocks said:
    batmon said:
    What's the Definitive version of DEFINITIVE?!!!!!!!!


    :get_on_my_level:

    Hahaha.

    Sheeeeeit. Well, if you really wanna know...

    Definitive just means G.O.A.T.

    But I don't know how to answer that question about a song until you tell me more. Greatest in terms of artistic achievement that it represents? Or are we talking about the most beautiful? There are many, many different valuable things about a song and when we make comparisons it seems like it's usually in terms of some values specified by the context. Kind of like tall. I can say "He's tall" on the basketball court and communicate one thing. If I say it on the subway, I communicate another. But if you ask: Forget about the criteria, is the song good period? That sounds about as meaningful as: Forget about whether we're comparing him to basketball players or the average American, is he tall?

    If someone tries to call me out in a favorite hip-hop verses thread, then I must be making some kind of mistake in what sounds good. I'm like the dude who tells a wine connoisseur that Carlo Rossi is amazing. Or if I'm listing some weird shit that only I like. But I don't think that's what's going here. So I used "definitive" to claim some kind of objectivity for my taste. This is a common use of the word in describing whether something sounds better or tastes better. Here's an example of exactly how I was using it:

    So, I'm asking some guy who works at a wine store the other day for recommendations and he says "Well I personally prefer this bottle, but this other bodega has made the definitive Malbec." In that context, it probably doesn't matter whether the bodega stole the recipe and added one extra ingredient. He's also not reporting his personal taste. Since we like other similar wines, I should probably follow his recommendation even if I don't like the wine at first. Other experts might disagree with him about the definitive Malbec. If they have different tastes, this disagreement will be deep and irresolvable.

    So it turns out I made a list only based on beauty and you used other additional criteria to rank songs. So I think I'm communicating one thing with by saying "Snoop's recording is better". But you guys are taking me to mean something else.

    The only question is why anyone would have ever thought we would all be using the same criteria in the first place. I don't know why I did.

    I think there are many examples where covers son the original. And the consensus is that it becomes the favored version rendering the OG as just a good blueprint, but not the best because its the OG.

    Snoop's version which came about during his big media time, Dre. production, and tech evolution, helped introduce an African American Folk song to a new generation of Hip Hop listeners.

    In '85 that cassette/routine was like having fresh Newports at Rikers. It wasnt ubiquitous like the vinyl.
    In time many folks heard it or own a dub and memorized it despite NO RADIO play.
    I remember some dude's cousin came up from down south and knew the words, and this was before shit even came out on vinyl.

    Like many have said before - feel free to prefer Snoop's version but to try and eclipse the history of the song w/ your values is mad suspect in my eyes.

    I'm gettin tired sayin the same shit in a different way 10 times.

    This could have been put to be if you simply just said u preferred Snoop's joint vs trying to present a short-sided view of Hip Hop history or tryin' to twist the meaning of definitive.

    Would Lodi Dodi/Ladi Dadi even been on Doggystyle if it wasnt a known song?
    Could Snoop do Discombobulatorbubulator and get the same reaction?

  • jjrocksjjrocks 109 Posts
    batmon said:


    I'm gettin tired sayin the same shit in a different way 10 times.

    Me too, man. Me too.

    batmon said:


    This could have been put to be if you simply just said u preferred Snoop's joint vs trying to present a short-sided view of Hip Hop history or tryin' to twist the meaning of definitive.



    Dude, you might always use definitive on some historical achievement, must son the OG shit. But most people just mean best. And when ranking works of art, some people just look at the intrinsic features of the objects, other people take a more historical view.

    I would have the thought the take home lesson from all this is that people can value works of art for totally different reason. So it's important to understand how they are evaluating something, before jumping to the conclusions that they are wrong. Otherwise much time will be wasted.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    jjrocks said:
    But most people just mean best.

    :game_over:

  • BigKBigK 97 Posts
    @jjrocks -
    You meant "your favorite" but you went and said "definitive"

    Definitive isn't a word where you can make up your own meaning for it, it means definitive!

    It's not like we're all trying to argue against you like our opinion vs your opinion and using different methods of criteria as if it's open for discussion... we're just telling you that it IS considered the definitive version, for reasons already explained.

    It's not like everyone gets to throw their 2 cents into whether it'll be the definitive version or not, something becomes the definitive version because of specific reasons, and then that's what it is.

    You thinking something is the best and all your friends thinking the same does not change the meaning of definitive and it does not change Hip-Hop history or which tracks are definitive.

  • SIRUSSIRUS 2,554 Posts
    BigK said:
    @jjrocks -
    You thinking something is the best and all your friends thinking the same does not change the meaning of definitive and it does not change Hip-Hop history or which tracks are definitive.

  • Spoonie Gee - Love Rap
    Run DMC - Sucker MC's
    T La Rock & Jazzy Jay - It's Yours
    Ultramagnetic MC's - Ego Trippin
    Public Enemy - Fight the Power

  • jjrocksjjrocks 109 Posts
    SIRUS said:
    BigK said:
    @jjrocks -
    You thinking something is the best and all your friends thinking the same does not change the meaning of definitive and it does not change Hip-Hop history or which tracks are definitive.

    You really still don't get it? Sigh. Definitive means best. You guys think historical factors make a song better. I disagree.

    I think those factors are important in assigning credit to the artists but not at all relevant to how good the song is. I think that facts available to deaf people are irrelevant to how good the song is. What me and my friends think is irrelevant. It only depends on how good it sounds.

    I don't know how to settle who is right about the criteria. But it doesn't really matter to me. As long as we're clear about the criteria we can talk about rap and stop talking about words.

    But you guys seem to need me to be wrong. So why are your criteria THE CORRECT criteria?

    Edit: I meant to say that what me and my friends think doesn't MAKE the song good. But it's certainly some evidence that it's good.


  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    double and I'm not sure what's up with the crazy font change

  • BigKBigK 97 Posts
    jjrocks said:
    You really still don't get it? Sigh. Definitive means best.

    Er no, definitive means definitive

  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    I also digs me some Just Ice....or Justice


  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    I was 15 when this shit dropped..do you know how hard this joint is??


  • El PrezEl Prez NE Ohio 1,141 Posts
    No matter how much internet mofo's shit on KRS I remember when shit like this dropped....he got a right to say crazy shit nowadays....


  • djwaxondjwaxon 406 Posts
    not a top 5 but a top 4...



    is my "what a fool believes" of rap



    is my "i can't go for that" of rap



    is my "peg" of rap



    is my "wired for sound" of rap

  • Jj my guy, you're a fucking idiot.

  • deejdeej 5,125 Posts
    as a dude who once started a long azz thread here w/ the CHALLENGING OPINION that 2001 >>> the first chronic (i still believe this -- not as important, but more consistently listenable) im totally sympathetic to arguments like JJ's in a lot of circumstances

    but in this one hes just str8 up rong. i bet you a huge percentage of the rap audience checking that track at the time knew exactly what song it was referencing. its an all time classic. most definitive. also best, although i guess thats beside the pt
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