I think dude saying Snoop is better than Ricks version is nuts.............BUT.........to be fair this is the shit.
The word "definitive" seems to have got people's tenderberries in a ruffle. So much so that they are having trouble reading what I'm actually saying.
We normally asses songs on many different dimensions. Sometimes we take into account originality. Sometimes just how it sounds. I've had a lot of people say Snoop's is worse. Are you saying it's worse because it SOUNDS worse or are you using some other criteria?
That might help the discussion. On the other hand, Freddie, your mere reporting of your taste is totally useless and uninteresting:
Why would the order in which I heard the songs make a difference to which one sounds better? That's just idiotic.
Because people who "grow up with" one version may have "emotional attachments" to that version because they heard it first (your words, by the way). So I guess you're calling your own reasoning idiotic here.
Snoop didn't add enough to overhaul the song to make it the definitive version, and the song was already stamped on Hip-Hop's consciousness in a big way, so it's not like he took an unknown song and made the well known version of it, it was already a big deal
He used the same flow and only changed a couple of the words, and did slightly different things with the delivery.
It was over a dope beat, but probably the least impressive on Doggystyle.
And on the original Doug's beatboxing is legendary and it's one of the most famous examples of beatboxing on record, so the original is definitive in that way too.
The song is highly regarded mainly because of the quality of the story writing and the flow, both of which Rick came up with.
Definitive rarely means what any one particular person subjectively prefers, you preferring Snoop's version does not a definitive song make.
I like them both about the same personally, but Rick's is clearly the definitive version.
Why would the order in which I heard the songs make a difference to which one sounds better? That's just idiotic.
Because people who "grow up with" one version may have "emotional attachments" to that version because they heard it first (your words, by the way). So I guess you're calling your own reasoning idiotic here.
That would make you THINK it sounds better. That wouldn't make it sound better.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I think dude saying Snoop is better than Ricks version is nuts.............BUT.........to be fair this is the shit.
The word "definitive" seems to have got people's tenderberries in a ruffle. So much so that they are having trouble reading what I'm actually saying.
We normally asses songs on many different dimensions. Sometimes we take into account originality. Sometimes just how it sounds. I've had a lot of people say Snoop's is worse. Are you saying it's worse because it SOUNDS worse or are you using some other criteria?
That might help the discussion. On the other hand, Freddie, your mere reporting of your taste is totally useless and uninteresting:
Freddie Banks said:
Snoops version sucks balls.
For those that don't like it....
MY THREAD STEP OUT THE KITCHEN IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE HEAT
Snoop didn't add enough to overhaul the song to make it the definitive version, and the song was already stamped on Hip-Hop's consciousness in a big way, so it's not like he took an unknown song and made the well known version of it, it was already a big deal
He used the same flow and only changed a couple of the words, and did slightly different things with the delivery.
It was over a dope beat, but probably the least impressive on Doggystyle.
And on the original Doug's beatboxing is legendary and it's one of the most famous examples of beatboxing on record, so the original is definitive in that way too.
The song is highly regarded mainly because of the quality of the story writing and the flow, both of which Rick came up with.
Definitive rarely means what any one particular person subjectively prefers, you preferring Snoop's version does not a definitive song make.
I like them both about the same personally, but Rick's is clearly the definitive version.
]
I agree with everything you said above except the last phrase. Obviously, being the version some person prefers does not ever make something definitive. I can make my point without using that word and you'll see that my claim amounts to something much strong than "I like Snoop's version better." Whether what I'm saying counts as proper usage of definitive, that sounds like an uninteresting semantic question better left to Webster.
But I think it's silly to insist the every time we discuss art, when the word "good" has a single meaning. When I say a novel is good, it might be because it's funny or psychologically insightful or innovative. Sometimes we just mean more beautiful.
Rick tried to do too much. I like his flow, but his cadence and the rhythm he gave to his quicker flow were pulling in different directions. By slowing it, making his vowels even longer, and not so strongly emphasizing the rhythm of his delivery snoop was able to achieve something slick rick didn't. Snoop's song is hypnotizing.
I've lived up and down the west coast and thankfully got to travel a lot when I was younger through basketball. Almost hip-hop fans i've met in the real world--granted in their mid-twenties--prefer Snoop's version. The are folks who also have no interest in listening, more than a few times, to beat-boxing on record. We also find Run DMC unlistenable, no matter how much we try. So, it's not something idiosyncratic about my personal preference. To a huge group of people, Snoop's is the much better sounding version. So much so that they would never play Slick Rick's version. And I would suspect the same will hold true for future generations.
But I've also never met anyone in the real world who posts on message boards, so I wouldn't expect any of that to ring true to this particular demographic.
I agree with everything you said above except the last phrase. Obviously, being the version some person prefers does not ever make something definitive. I can make my point without using that word and you'll see that my claim amounts to something much strong than "I like Snoop's version better." Whether what I'm saying counts as proper usage of definitive, that sounds like an uninteresting semantic question better left to Webster.
Definitive is not the same as what sounds the best. What sounds the best is subjective. Definitive is kinda like classic as a term where it's based on who innovated first, influence, etc. etc.
Otherwise you could go and rewrite history now by just stating your opinion and saying it is definitive because it sounds best to you and a bunch of your friends.
jjrocks said:
Rick tried to do too much. I like his flow, but his cadence and the rhythm he gave to his quicker flow were pulling in different directions. By slowing it, making his vowels even longer, and not so strongly emphasizing the rhythm of his delivery snoop was able to achieve something slick rick didn't. Snoop's song is hypnotizing.
It's the same flow and rhythm, Snoop just changed a couple of words and did it in a Snoop voice
jjrocks said:
Almost hip-hop fans i've met in the real world--granted in their mid-twenties--prefer Snoop's version.
Everyone I know who knows Hip-Hop history properly agrees that Rick's is the definitive version
jjrocks said:
The are folks who also have no interest in listening, more than a few times, to beat-boxing on record. We also find Run DMC unlistenable, no matter how much we try.
Your friends might not care about the Wright brothers or about Henry the 8th either, but that doesn't mean those things are not a huge part of history, it just means they don't know the history or the significance because they haven't studied it enough.
You don't have to like listening to Run DMC, but you have to understand the importance of Run DMC and why their earlier albums are classics and hugely important and influential
Saw someone post appreciation for the use of Rasa on The High & Mighty "Weed" as if Boogie Down Productions "Beef" did not exist. Even that was enough to make my eyebrows bend.
I agree with everything you said above except the last phrase. Obviously, being the version some person prefers does not ever make something definitive. I can make my point without using that word and you'll see that my claim amounts to something much strong than "I like Snoop's version better." Whether what I'm saying counts as proper usage of definitive, that sounds like an uninteresting semantic question better left to Webster.
Definitive is not the same as what sounds the best. What sounds the best is subjective. Definitive is kinda like classic as a term where it's based on who innovated first, influence, etc. etc.
Otherwise you could go and rewrite history now by just stating your opinion and saying it is definitive because it sounds best to you and a bunch of your friends. l
This is just a semantic question about the use of definitive. One use implies that when I say something is definitive, I'm making a recommendation. If you're gonna listen to a version of this song, THIS one sounds the best. But this has nothing to do with history, so I don't see why using the word this way would be rewriting history. Of course, there's a certain subjectivity but also a certain objectivity. That's what makes it interesting.
jjrocks said:
Rick tried to do too much. I like his flow, but his cadence and the rhythm he gave to his quicker flow were pulling in different directions. By slowing it, making his vowels even longer, and not so strongly emphasizing the rhythm of his delivery snoop was able to achieve something slick rick didn't. Snoop's song is hypnotizing.
It's the same flow and rhythm, Snoop just changed a couple of words and did it in a Snoop voice
Hahaha. Dude, that's exactly what I said. Snoop de-emphasized the rhythm. Some of rick's phrases are filled with short words with consonants emphasized. That pitter-patter knocks you out of the hypnosis induced by the cadence. The effect of Snoop's de-emphasis is startling.
We agree on history so there's no need to keep bringing that up.
Remember who this started? Someone grandpa suggested that putting Snoop's version on your personal favorites is a mistake. Why should my favorite songs to listen to be determined by innovation, influence?
Remember who this started? Someone grandpa suggested that putting Snoop's version on your personal favorites is a mistake. Why should my favorite songs to listen to be determined by innovation, influence?
You just have bad taste coupled w/ a very ignorant sense of Hip Hop.
Keep trying to bend and backtrack.
There are many New Yorkers and their kids that will continue to place OG Ladi Dadi in front of Snoop.
Your mindgarden idea that your and future generations isnt seein Slick Rick version is shortsided.
Ladi Dadi is the a nursery rhyme dude. And Dr. Dre's version aint the template.
Jaheim "Aint leaving without you" > De La Soul's " Ring Ring Ring (Ha Ha Hey)"
Kinda funny Jaheim replaces "Impeach The President" (Aaron Fuchs lawsuit-rel) with Whatnauts' own break beat. I guess if they're already handing Whatnauts' all the publishing for "Help Is On The Way"...
I agree with everything you said above except the last phrase. Obviously, being the version some person prefers does not ever make something definitive. I can make my point without using that word and you'll see that my claim amounts to something much strong than "I like Snoop's version better." Whether what I'm saying counts as proper usage of definitive, that sounds like an uninteresting semantic question better left to Webster.
Definitive is not the same as what sounds the best. What sounds the best is subjective. Definitive is kinda like classic as a term where it's based on who innovated first, influence, etc. etc.
Otherwise you could go and rewrite history now by just stating your opinion and saying it is definitive because it sounds best to you and a bunch of your friends. l
This is just a semantic question about the use of definitive. One use implies that when I say something is definitive, I'm making a recommendation. If you're gonna listen to a version of this song, THIS one sounds the best. But this has nothing to do with history, so I don't see why using the word this way would be rewriting history. Of course, there's a certain subjectivity but also a certain objectivity. That's what makes it interesting.
jjrocks said:
Rick tried to do too much. I like his flow, but his cadence and the rhythm he gave to his quicker flow were pulling in different directions. By slowing it, making his vowels even longer, and not so strongly emphasizing the rhythm of his delivery snoop was able to achieve something slick rick didn't. Snoop's song is hypnotizing.
It's the same flow and rhythm, Snoop just changed a couple of words and did it in a Snoop voice
Hahaha. Dude, that's exactly what I said. Snoop de-emphasized the rhythm. Some of rick's phrases are filled with short words with consonants emphasized. That pitter-patter knocks you out of the hypnosis induced by the cadence. The effect of Snoop's de-emphasis is startling.
We agree on history so there's no need to keep bringing that up.
Remember who this started? Someone grandpa suggested that putting Snoop's version on your personal favorites is a mistake. Why should my favorite songs to listen to be determined by innovation, influence?
And honestly JJ I'm not trying to be a dick about this but I think you're right that it's a bit of a question about semantics. When one calls something "THE DEFINITIVE VERSION" it's not the same as "MY DEFINITIVE VERSION" at all. You can love the Snoop version as much as you want, that's great. And it's not a bad song at all - quite the opposite. But again, I use the Jimi Hendrix and the Sinead O'Connor covers songs as examples that meet the criteria of "DEFINITIVE." Sure, Prince > Sinead O'Connor in general, but she recorded THE DEFINITIVE VERSION of a Prince song. See what I'm saying? But for real, that's great you love the Snoop version over the Rick jawn... I'm just saying that that alone doesn't technically make it "THE DEFINITIVE VERSION" see what I'm saying?
I'm done arguing semantics on Teh Strut though. Let's talk about some more raps.
Jaheim "Aint leaving without you" > De La Soul's " Ring Ring Ring (Ha Ha Hey)"
Kinda funny Jaheim replaces "Impeach The President" (Aaron Fuchs lawsuit-rel) with Whatnauts' own break beat. I guess if they're already handing Whatnauts' all the publishing for "Help Is On The Way"...
I know right guess it was easier since he already used "Help is own the way"...like you said.
Jaheim "Aint leaving without you" > De La Soul's " Ring Ring Ring (Ha Ha Hey)"
Kinda funny Jaheim replaces "Impeach The President" (Aaron Fuchs lawsuit-rel) with Whatnauts' own break beat. I guess if they're already handing Whatnauts' all the publishing for "Help Is On The Way"...
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The word "definitive" seems to have got people's tenderberries in a ruffle. So much so that they are having trouble reading what I'm actually saying.
We normally asses songs on many different dimensions. Sometimes we take into account originality. Sometimes just how it sounds. I've had a lot of people say Snoop's is worse. Are you saying it's worse because it SOUNDS worse or are you using some other criteria?
That might help the discussion. On the other hand, Freddie, your mere reporting of your taste is totally useless and uninteresting:
For those that don't like it....
Because people who "grow up with" one version may have "emotional attachments" to that version because they heard it first (your words, by the way). So I guess you're calling your own reasoning idiotic here.
Yeah Special K wrote it as far as I'm aware.
He used the same flow and only changed a couple of the words, and did slightly different things with the delivery.
It was over a dope beat, but probably the least impressive on Doggystyle.
And on the original Doug's beatboxing is legendary and it's one of the most famous examples of beatboxing on record, so the original is definitive in that way too.
The song is highly regarded mainly because of the quality of the story writing and the flow, both of which Rick came up with.
Definitive rarely means what any one particular person subjectively prefers, you preferring Snoop's version does not a definitive song make.
I like them both about the same personally, but Rick's is clearly the definitive version.
That would make you THINK it sounds better. That wouldn't make it sound better.
MY THREAD STEP OUT THE KITCHEN IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE HEAT
It's all because of you, i'm feelin said and blue
You went away, now my life is filled with rainy days
Haha
b/w
Slick Rick's Version of Sukiyaki = Definitive
I agree with everything you said above except the last phrase. Obviously, being the version some person prefers does not ever make something definitive. I can make my point without using that word and you'll see that my claim amounts to something much strong than "I like Snoop's version better." Whether what I'm saying counts as proper usage of definitive, that sounds like an uninteresting semantic question better left to Webster.
But I think it's silly to insist the every time we discuss art, when the word "good" has a single meaning. When I say a novel is good, it might be because it's funny or psychologically insightful or innovative. Sometimes we just mean more beautiful.
Rick tried to do too much. I like his flow, but his cadence and the rhythm he gave to his quicker flow were pulling in different directions. By slowing it, making his vowels even longer, and not so strongly emphasizing the rhythm of his delivery snoop was able to achieve something slick rick didn't. Snoop's song is hypnotizing.
I've lived up and down the west coast and thankfully got to travel a lot when I was younger through basketball. Almost hip-hop fans i've met in the real world--granted in their mid-twenties--prefer Snoop's version. The are folks who also have no interest in listening, more than a few times, to beat-boxing on record. We also find Run DMC unlistenable, no matter how much we try. So, it's not something idiosyncratic about my personal preference. To a huge group of people, Snoop's is the much better sounding version. So much so that they would never play Slick Rick's version. And I would suspect the same will hold true for future generations.
But I've also never met anyone in the real world who posts on message boards, so I wouldn't expect any of that to ring true to this particular demographic.
Definitive is not the same as what sounds the best. What sounds the best is subjective. Definitive is kinda like classic as a term where it's based on who innovated first, influence, etc. etc.
Otherwise you could go and rewrite history now by just stating your opinion and saying it is definitive because it sounds best to you and a bunch of your friends.
It's the same flow and rhythm, Snoop just changed a couple of words and did it in a Snoop voice
Everyone I know who knows Hip-Hop history properly agrees that Rick's is the definitive version
Your friends might not care about the Wright brothers or about Henry the 8th either, but that doesn't mean those things are not a huge part of history, it just means they don't know the history or the significance because they haven't studied it enough.
You don't have to like listening to Run DMC, but you have to understand the importance of Run DMC and why their earlier albums are classics and hugely important and influential
b/w
Master P "Ghetto D" > Eric B & Rakim " Eric B is President"
This is just a semantic question about the use of definitive. One use implies that when I say something is definitive, I'm making a recommendation. If you're gonna listen to a version of this song, THIS one sounds the best. But this has nothing to do with history, so I don't see why using the word this way would be rewriting history. Of course, there's a certain subjectivity but also a certain objectivity. That's what makes it interesting.
It's the same flow and rhythm, Snoop just changed a couple of words and did it in a Snoop voice
Hahaha. Dude, that's exactly what I said. Snoop de-emphasized the rhythm. Some of rick's phrases are filled with short words with consonants emphasized. That pitter-patter knocks you out of the hypnosis induced by the cadence. The effect of Snoop's de-emphasis is startling.
We agree on history so there's no need to keep bringing that up.
Remember who this started? Someone grandpa suggested that putting Snoop's version on your personal favorites is a mistake. Why should my favorite songs to listen to be determined by innovation, influence?
Hahaha. Dude, that's exactly what I said. Snoop de-emphasized the rhythm. Some of rick's phrases are filled with short words with consonants emphasized. That pitter-patter knocks you out of the hypnosis induced by the cadence. The effect of Snoop's de-emphasis is startling.
We agree on history so there's no need to keep bringing that up.
Remember who this started? Someone grandpa suggested that putting Snoop's version on your personal favorites is a mistake. Why should my favorite songs to listen to be determined by innovation, influence?
I'm done arguing semantics on Teh Strut though. Let's talk about some more raps.
I know right guess it was easier since he already used "Help is own the way"...like you said.