DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
DustedDon said:
staxwax said:
cosine on the prince hate - no denying the dudes musicality, but his catalogue is straight up meh - he has no undisputable transcendental floor burning classics imo
this is fucking hilarious....
This whole thread is fucking hilarious, and not in a good way, either.
You can sum it up thus; "I can't fathom the popularity of/critical reverence accorded to [Artist X], and consequently I consider him/her/them overrated". I mean, no more than three or four contributors have even attempted to justify their selections. If you're going to post up on a public forum and say some stupid-ass shit like "Prince is overrated", "Bob Dylan is overrated" or "Bob Marley is overrated", you should at least be able to say why.
It's pretty easy to say why, but it's also meaningless and a waste of time on boards, because it's not like explaining why is going to prevent the usual (and silly) bent reactions.
I love Dylan and Coltrane but I'm not going to waste my time ever again trying to convince people who don't that they're "wrong." They're not wrong, they just like different shit than I do. Fine with me, why should I care? Likewise I think the Ramones by themselves are better than any ten rappers combined, but I don't care if people disagree.
And I think Beck blows huge bloody stool-infested chunks, but no, I'm not interested in revisiting his scatalogue disc by hideous disc to justify the opinion.
I dunno that it is that easy; certainly not as easy as lazy contrarianism. Also, I think you're making the error of conflating a simple issue of personal taste with a more specific assertion that certain artists don't warrant the level of popularity or acclaim they receive.
As I see it, when someone claims [artist X] is overrated, they're making a statement which implies they've given the matter some degree of consideration, and I think it's reasonable to expect them to show their workings. They're not just saying [artist X] sucks - it's pretty easy to say that. What's less easy is to say why.
For instance, does someone say Animal Collective are overrated because they think the widespread critical consensus that holds them to be an important band is flawed? Or is what bothers them the fact that such a consensus exists in the first place? When someone says Madlib is overrated, mightn't that mainly be a response to the unswerving, uncritical, fanboy reverence he's granted in some quarters? Wouldn't it perhaps be truer (or at least more conducive to discussion - on a discussion board) to say he's someone who makes as many boring records as he does good ones, and maybe the trick is to figure out which ones are which?
If you press someone who says Bob Marley is overrated to justify that statement, they might say something about how there's a poster of him in every dorm room in every US college, or how there are scores of people who claim to like reggae, yet Legend is the only reggae album they own. Things like that have less to do with Marley's music than with other people's responses to it. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with saying that if someone only knows Marley's music, they don't really know reggae. But does that actually matter in the first place? And if so, to whom? Record geeks whose resentment towards all those people who don't really care about Keith Hudson or Horace Andy becomes focused on the mainstream preference for Marley, upon which is projected all this nonsense about him being overrated? Well, whoop-de-fuckin'-do to that.
I'm guessing whoever said The Beach Boys have never listened to them and specifically have never heard "Surf's Up" or "Sunflower" and have most definitely never heard the Dennis Wilson solo album.
Your guess would be wrong.
As far as the Dennis Wilson goes, it's not a Beach Boys album. If I say I don't like CSNY then telling me I need to hear "After the Gold Rush" before I make up my mind seems extremely weak, no?
Hmm well if Neil Young had only made one solo album I would see your point. Dennis was a Beach Boy thru and thru and his solo Lp is part of the Beach Boys canon IMHO and his contributions on post-Pet Sounds Beach Boys Lps stand up to anything on "Pacific Ocean Blues".
But please tell me how the Beach Boys are overrated! I agree with you to a point...but then the Beatles are also overrated and The Beach Boys are the American Beatles.
Hmm well if Neil Young had only made one solo album I would see your point. Dennis was a Beach Boy thru and thru and his solo Lp is part of the Beach Boys canon IMHO and his contributions on post-Pet Sounds Beach Boys Lps stand up to anything on "Pacific Ocean Blues".
But please tell me how the Beach Boys are overrated! I agree with you to a point...but then the Beatles are also overrated and The Beach Boys are the American Beatles.
Most of the Sgt. Pepper album is Beach Boys-level suck, so I don't entirely disagree with that comparison.
But the Beatles never did anything as stupid as "Be True To Your School."
And maybe if they hadn't broken up they would have done shit as dreadful as the "Endless Summer" album, but I'm glad we never found out.
Well obviously they out out some total dreck...but shitty Beach Boys isn't overrated! I was hoping you were going to make a case for "Pet Sounds" being overrated..
Hmm well if Neil Young had only made one solo album I would see your point. Dennis was a Beach Boy thru and thru and his solo Lp is part of the Beach Boys canon IMHO and his contributions on post-Pet Sounds Beach Boys Lps stand up to anything on "Pacific Ocean Blues".
But please tell me how the Beach Boys are overrated! I agree with you to a point...but then the Beatles are also overrated and The Beach Boys are the American Beatles.
I have to admit I think Pet Sounds is massively overrated. I lke early BB much more.
She is more famous for her status as an edgy pop symbol than for the quality of her voice and/or music. I understand that she pushed the envelope in terms of her videos, fashion, etc., but so did Britney Spears. You can say the same for most pop "icons." I don't have a great voice, but I can belt out a fairly inoffensive rendition of Material Girl. I don't find anything earth shattering about songs such as Like a Prayer and her voice lacks the power and range of other female 80s/90s pop singers like Donna Summer, Gloria Estefan and Whitney Houston.
So. Over. Rated.
High School Girls NEVER emulated Whitney or Gloria Estefan' sFashion sense.
Madonna aint no singer, but if your talmbout all around artistry/pushing the envelope, Brtiany Spears aint got shit on Madonna.
Well obviously they out out some total dreck...but shitty Beach Boys isn't overrated! I was hoping you were going to make a case for "Pet Sounds" being overrated..
#2 on Rolling Stone's list of the Best Albums of all time.
I just put you on my "ignore this user" list for that one.
I'm sorry... they 've been celebrated as great innovators but to me they only made "everybody" sound the same.....Bobbye Humphrey, Donald Byrd, Johnny Hammond, Gary Bartz...
Prince is not overated. He deserves all the accolades he receives. Despite his latter stuff, dude coulda quit after Purple Rain and still left his imprint on the game.
And as far as "no dancefloor bangers" - that's some "do u even party" shit.
Dr. Wu rapping about the quality of Stax-Volt records after '68:
Or for that matter the Dramatics don???t sound that different from the Bark-Kays in the early 70s.
???? Both acts had sophisticated production and recorded for Volt, but apart from that, I hear NO similarities...the Dramatics were a vocal group styled after the (Whitfield-era) Tempts. The Bar-Kays was a self-contained band that gradually started leaning in a hardrock direction.
The "finger-snapping" Stax years (1968-75) will always be alright with me. "Big Leg Woman With A Short Short Miniskirt" is unfadeable and unfuckwitable.
On the other hand, Wendy Rene was pre-'68 and I have YET to be moved by any of the sides I've heard. And that includes that song about barbecue that seems to be a fave with collectors.
WAAAAAH WAH WAH - I hate you for hating prince ETC ETC
Oh yeah lets place the purple leery burnt out midget on a pedestal forever and ever and venerate his ignorant and stunted, yet admittedly gifted ass for all eternity! - even though 85 percent of his output is fucking shit - no, you liked five of his songs in the eighties - and have some sensitive sentimental soft spot.
I say that shit is gathering mothballs already and will soon enough be utterly forgotten by all but a few trainspotting completionists. "eternally great" - bob marley sly stone great - he fucking isnt in my book - should you care to enquire after my opinion, which someone fucking did.
Im prone to think all this kneejerking proves my point - prince is overrated - as a matter of fact i havent heard or discussed prince for years come to think of it - until someone mentioned him here, enticing me to think: "hmm, why, yes - his few good songs have been ruined for me by his utter buffoonery"
And, thank you for asking, but I can party just fine without a smattering of music that makes me go: "hmm yeah, that guy, at least he didnt go full retard, like a certain artist whose music I happen to enjoy a whole lot more - I guess that IS one cut above a corny little obligatory MJ segment."
He???s not the last one I could have a fucking go at if you want to get all precious about the fucking paisley pop pantheon let me tell ya - so, if you risk getting your proverbial knickers in a twist about "tafkap", dont bother, ???batman??? already had his way with him - 23 positions in a one night stand indeed...
Admittedly, I can come across as a bit forceful with the old off hand messageboard rants.
A Prince greamlin asking somehting like "do you play?" would be great. Pic preferably circa Purple Rain, or any of his early sick headshots. And I don't think I've seen anyone mention Dr. Dre. Aside from the early NWA stuff, his style is not my taste, but trying to leave that aside, I can't stand someone getting so much acclaim for music that has never come out. Hyping a "vault" of alleged classic material that only your production squad can attest to is ridiculous.
WAAAAAH WAH WAH - I hate you for hating prince ETC ETC
Oh yeah lets place the purple leery burnt out midget on a pedestal forever and ever and venerate his ignorant and stunted, yet admittedly gifted ass for all eternity! - even though 85 percent of his output is fucking shit - no, you liked five of his songs in the eighties - and have some sensitive sentimental soft spot.
I say that shit is gathering mothballs already and will soon enough be utterly forgotten by all but a few trainspotting completionists. "eternally great" - bob marley sly stone great - he fucking isnt in my book - should you care to enquire after my opinion, which someone fucking did.
Im prone to think all this kneejerking proves my point - prince is overrated - as a matter of fact i havent heard or discussed prince for years come to think of it - until someone mentioned him here, enticing me to think: "hmm, why, yes - his few good songs have been ruined for me by his utter buffoonery"
And, thank you for asking, but I can party just fine without a smattering of music that makes me go: "hmm yeah, that guy, at least he didnt go full retard, like a certain artist whose music I happen to enjoy a whole lot more - I guess that IS one cut above a corny little obligatory MJ segment."
He???s not the last one I could have a fucking go at if you want to get all precious about the fucking paisley pop pantheon let me tell ya - so, if you risk getting your proverbial knickers in a twist about "tafkap", dont bother, ???batman??? already had his way with him - 23 positions in a one night stand indeed...
Admittedly, I can come across as a bit forceful with the old off hand messageboard rants.
Do u, but to cast Prince as When Doves Cry & Kiss w/ Becky at the afterwork happy hour set is silliness.
Dude has crazy slowjams that still gets played during Quiet Storm sets.......(Do u even really party?)
I can understand your hatt for the cheezy stuff, but it really sounds like u havent really been exposed to his catalog by chalking his shit up to the 80's stuff.
Dude is still performing - far from mothballs steez. Do u though.
this thread solidifies why soulstrut is overrated and full of shit.
Wow.
If my internets scorecard is correct, you are a dude who: 1) made his bones in the culture surrounding rap music but nonetheless considers it a vast wasteland, 2) lives in the US of A but nonetheless uses "Could I drop this in Paris?" as a barometer of musical quality, and 3) joined soulstrut five years ago "and has posted 1327 times" but nonetheless thinks it's overrated and full of shit.
I've gotta say, your apparent commitment to shitting on any club that would have you as a member--and doing so in a mostly unconstructive manner ([post]"See, shit like this is why shit like this music/this place/you people are full of shit."[/post])--is remarkable.
I mean, I consider myself a pretty advanced-degree hater, but dang--you get props over here!
Dr. Wu rapping about the quality of Stax-Volt records after '68:
Or for that matter the Dramatics don???t sound that different from the Bark-Kays in the early 70s.
???? Both acts had sophisticated production and recorded for Volt, but apart from that, I hear NO similarities...the Dramatics were a vocal group styled after the (Whitfield-era) Tempts. The Bar-Kays was a self-contained band that gradually started leaning in a hardrock direction.
The "finger-snapping" Stax years (1968-75) will always be alright with me. "Big Leg Woman With A Short Short Miniskirt" is unfadeable and unfuckwitable.
On the other hand, Wendy Rene was pre-'68 and I have YET to be moved by any of the sides I've heard. And that includes that song about barbecue that seems to be a fave with collectors.
I don't think that Son of Shaft is that sonically different than Get Up and Get Down.
My favorite Stax era is 68-71.
Good point about Pet Sounds' unbelievably high RS rating. #2 ahead of Electric Ladyland or Blood On the Tracks or What's Goin' On or 8 million others is exactly what this thread should be about.
I have to admit I think Pet Sounds is massively overrated. I lke early BB much more.
It's the opposite for me - the Beach Boys were better as a "progressive" band than a "Top 40" band, something I will rarely say about any act.
I'm not quite a Beach Boys fan, but I'll take "Heroes & Villains" and "Caroline No" over "Surfin' USA" and "I Get Around" anyday.
the Dramatics don???t sound that different from the Bark-Kays in the early 70s.
???? Both acts had sophisticated production and recorded for Volt, but apart from that, I hear NO similarities...the Dramatics were a vocal group styled after the (Whitfield-era) Tempts. The Bar-Kays was a self-contained band that gradually started leaning in a hardrock direction.
I don't think that (the Bar-Kays') Son of Shaft is that sonically different than (the Dramatics') Get Up and Get Down.
It's not different, but that was an anomaly, a one-time-arounder. The Dramatics weren't THAT funky most of the time.
Comments
Aren't those the same fucking thing?
I dunno that it is that easy; certainly not as easy as lazy contrarianism. Also, I think you're making the error of conflating a simple issue of personal taste with a more specific assertion that certain artists don't warrant the level of popularity or acclaim they receive.
As I see it, when someone claims [artist X] is overrated, they're making a statement which implies they've given the matter some degree of consideration, and I think it's reasonable to expect them to show their workings. They're not just saying [artist X] sucks - it's pretty easy to say that. What's less easy is to say why.
For instance, does someone say Animal Collective are overrated because they think the widespread critical consensus that holds them to be an important band is flawed? Or is what bothers them the fact that such a consensus exists in the first place? When someone says Madlib is overrated, mightn't that mainly be a response to the unswerving, uncritical, fanboy reverence he's granted in some quarters? Wouldn't it perhaps be truer (or at least more conducive to discussion - on a discussion board) to say he's someone who makes as many boring records as he does good ones, and maybe the trick is to figure out which ones are which?
If you press someone who says Bob Marley is overrated to justify that statement, they might say something about how there's a poster of him in every dorm room in every US college, or how there are scores of people who claim to like reggae, yet Legend is the only reggae album they own. Things like that have less to do with Marley's music than with other people's responses to it. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with saying that if someone only knows Marley's music, they don't really know reggae. But does that actually matter in the first place? And if so, to whom? Record geeks whose resentment towards all those people who don't really care about Keith Hudson or Horace Andy becomes focused on the mainstream preference for Marley, upon which is projected all this nonsense about him being overrated? Well, whoop-de-fuckin'-do to that.
Well yes and no but mostly no...disco: dance music in the mid to late 1970's...boogie: dance music in the early to mid 1980's.
the Mizells.... !
Your guess would be wrong.
As far as the Dennis Wilson goes, it's not a Beach Boys album. If I say I don't like CSNY then telling me I need to hear "After the Gold Rush" before I make up my mind seems extremely weak, no?
But please tell me how the Beach Boys are overrated! I agree with you to a point...but then the Beatles are also overrated and The Beach Boys are the American Beatles.
Most of the Sgt. Pepper album is Beach Boys-level suck, so I don't entirely disagree with that comparison.
But the Beatles never did anything as stupid as "Be True To Your School."
And maybe if they hadn't broken up they would have done shit as dreadful as the "Endless Summer" album, but I'm glad we never found out.
I have to admit I think Pet Sounds is massively overrated. I lke early BB much more.
I just put you on my "ignore this user" list for that one.
High School Girls NEVER emulated Whitney or Gloria Estefan' sFashion sense.
Madonna aint no singer, but if your talmbout all around artistry/pushing the envelope, Brtiany Spears aint got shit on Madonna.
Early Madonna was played on Black/Urban radio.
#2 on Rolling Stone's list of the Best Albums of all time.
Really, it's not overrated?
I'm sorry... they 've been celebrated as great innovators but to me they only made "everybody" sound the same.....Bobbye Humphrey, Donald Byrd, Johnny Hammond, Gary Bartz...
And as far as "no dancefloor bangers" - that's some "do u even party" shit.
???? Both acts had sophisticated production and recorded for Volt, but apart from that, I hear NO similarities...the Dramatics were a vocal group styled after the (Whitfield-era) Tempts. The Bar-Kays was a self-contained band that gradually started leaning in a hardrock direction.
The "finger-snapping" Stax years (1968-75) will always be alright with me. "Big Leg Woman With A Short Short Miniskirt" is unfadeable and unfuckwitable.
On the other hand, Wendy Rene was pre-'68 and I have YET to be moved by any of the sides I've heard. And that includes that song about barbecue that seems to be a fave with collectors.
some real deal cornball shit in this thread.
Oh yeah lets place the purple leery burnt out midget on a pedestal forever and ever and venerate his ignorant and stunted, yet admittedly gifted ass for all eternity! - even though 85 percent of his output is fucking shit - no, you liked five of his songs in the eighties - and have some sensitive sentimental soft spot.
I say that shit is gathering mothballs already and will soon enough be utterly forgotten by all but a few trainspotting completionists. "eternally great" - bob marley sly stone great - he fucking isnt in my book - should you care to enquire after my opinion, which someone fucking did.
Im prone to think all this kneejerking proves my point - prince is overrated - as a matter of fact i havent heard or discussed prince for years come to think of it - until someone mentioned him here, enticing me to think: "hmm, why, yes - his few good songs have been ruined for me by his utter buffoonery"
And, thank you for asking, but I can party just fine without a smattering of music that makes me go: "hmm yeah, that guy, at least he didnt go full retard, like a certain artist whose music I happen to enjoy a whole lot more - I guess that IS one cut above a corny little obligatory MJ segment."
He???s not the last one I could have a fucking go at if you want to get all precious about the fucking paisley pop pantheon let me tell ya - so, if you risk getting your proverbial knickers in a twist about "tafkap", dont bother, ???batman??? already had his way with him - 23 positions in a one night stand indeed...
Admittedly, I can come across as a bit forceful with the old off hand messageboard rants.
I had totally expunged this song from my memory.
Another great reason to hate the Beach Boys.
Do u, but to cast Prince as When Doves Cry & Kiss w/ Becky at the afterwork happy hour set is silliness.
Dude has crazy slowjams that still gets played during Quiet Storm sets.......(Do u even really party?)
I can understand your hatt for the cheezy stuff, but it really sounds like u havent really been exposed to his catalog by chalking his shit up to the 80's stuff.
Dude is still performing - far from mothballs steez. Do u though.
Wow.
If my internets scorecard is correct, you are a dude who: 1) made his bones in the culture surrounding rap music but nonetheless considers it a vast wasteland, 2) lives in the US of A but nonetheless uses "Could I drop this in Paris?" as a barometer of musical quality, and 3) joined soulstrut five years ago "and has posted 1327 times" but nonetheless thinks it's overrated and full of shit.
I've gotta say, your apparent commitment to shitting on any club that would have you as a member--and doing so in a mostly unconstructive manner ([post]"See, shit like this is why shit like this music/this place/you people are full of shit."[/post])--is remarkable.
I mean, I consider myself a pretty advanced-degree hater, but dang--you get props over here!
I don't think that Son of Shaft is that sonically different than Get Up and Get Down.
My favorite Stax era is 68-71.
Good point about Pet Sounds' unbelievably high RS rating. #2 ahead of Electric Ladyland or Blood On the Tracks or What's Goin' On or 8 million others is exactly what this thread should be about.
It's the opposite for me - the Beach Boys were better as a "progressive" band than a "Top 40" band, something I will rarely say about any act.
I'm not quite a Beach Boys fan, but I'll take "Heroes & Villains" and "Caroline No" over "Surfin' USA" and "I Get Around" anyday.
It's not different, but that was an anomaly, a one-time-arounder. The Dramatics weren't THAT funky most of the time.