When The NBA absorbed the ABA, the league got to see the Rick Barry's and George McGinnis'. Those cats were just as athletic IMO as Tracy McGrady or Vince Carter.
you are seriously comparing the athleticism of rick barry to tmac and vince carter? rick barry would laugh at you.
Rick Barry -
NBA San Francisco Warriors (1965-67) NBA Rookie of the Year (1966) NBA leading scorer in 1967 (35.6 ppg) ABA leading scorer in 1969 (34.0 ppg) NBA highest free-throw percentage 1973, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980 ABA highest free-throw percentage 1969, 1971, 1972 NBA All-Star Game MVP (1967) ABA Oakland Oaks (1968-69) ABA Washington Caps (1969-70) ABA New York Nets (1970-72) NBA Golden State Warriors (1972-78) All-NBA Second Team (1973) NBA Finals MVP (1975) NBA Houston Rockets (1978-79) NBA most consecutive made free throws record (60 - held from 1976 until 1980) All-NBA First Team (1966, 1967, 1974, 1975, 1976) Eight time NBA All-Star (1966, 1967, 1973-78) ABA All-Star First Team (1969-72) NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (1996) -------------------------------------------------------
T-Mac -
2-time NBA scoring leader: 2003 (32.1), 2004 (28.0) 7-time NBA All-Star: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 7-time All-NBA: First Team: 2002, 2003 Second Team: 2001, 2004, 2007 Third Team: 2005, 2008 NBA Most Improved Player Award: 2001 ----------------------------------------------
Vince Carter -
8-time NBA All-Star selection: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 (did not play in 2002 due to injury) 2-time All-NBA: Second Team: 2001 Third Team: 2000 NBA Slam Dunk Champion: 2000 NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1999 NBA Rookie of the Year Award: 1999 The Sporting News NBA Rookie of the Year: 1999[43]
TOP 50 -
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* Nate Archibald* Paul Arizin*
Charles Barkley* Rick Barry* Elgin Baylor* Dave Bing* Larry Bird*
Wilt Chamberlain* Bob Cousy* Dave Cowens* Billy Cunningham*
Dave DeBusschere* Clyde Drexler*
Julius Erving* Patrick Ewing*
Walt Frazier*
George Gervin* Hal Greer*
John Havlicek* Elvin Hayes*
Magic Johnson* Sam Jones* Michael Jordan*
Jerry Lucas*
Karl Malone Moses Malone* Pete Maravich* Kevin McHale* George Mikan* Earl Monroe*
Shaquille O'Neal Hakeem Olajuwon*
Robert Parish* Bob Pettit* Scottie Pippen
Willis Reed* Oscar Robertson* David Robinson* Bill Russell*
Dolph Schayes* Bill Sharman* John Stockton*
Isiah Thomas* Nate Thurmond*
Wes Unseld*
Bill Walton* Jerry West* Lenny Wilkens* James Worthy*
I'm actually somewhat drawn into KVH's "data pool" argument but the problem with it is that it substitutes a provocative idea for actual data analysis.
I also think that since "talent" is so ill-defined, the thesis is inherently untestable.
I'm actually somewhat drawn into KVH's "data pool" argument but the problem with it is that it substitutes a provocative idea for actual data analysis.
I also think that since "talent" is so ill-defined, the thesis is inherently untestable.
The NBA's expansion into Canada diluted the talent pool. Two more teams didnt help make the game better. Years later, the High School draft became a trend.
The big Euro movement has only produced a handfull of stars to to the elite.
The Modern NBA Era starts w/ the Bird/Magic 1979 NCAA Finals.
From 80 to '09 I'd say the "Talent" pool has actually gotten diluted, despite expansion, popularity, and globalization.
U could easily trash 10 teams in the NBA right now.
Yes, the media exposure has caused kids to pay more attention to the game over the years and dedicate themselves unlike the 70's or the early 80's. I cant tell u how many kids in my era emulated Jordan. Shit was bananas. 15 years later I cant say that following generations are more talented than a Earl Jesus Malone.
Of course your gonna have cats that push the game to the next level. Garnett - out of High School who could play all 5 positions, but for every Garnett there is 20 regular-ass role players that spends 3 years in the L. Because the line to join the NBA has gotten longer w/ cats from all over the world, the level of dilution has gotten heavier.
The NBA tried crazy hard to find the next Jordan - Ron Harper,JR Rider,Grant Hill,Vince Carter,Harold Miner,Jerry Stackhouse,Wade,K.O.B.E, and Lebron(23). I understand riding your brightest star, but that has made kids gravitate to the NBA for stardom instead of all around skills. That curse has infected the culture of talent.
Defense in the late 80's/early 90's was the HARDEST ever.
Legal Hand-checks above the foul line.
Yea, but Kobe gets doubled more often, and everyone hates him.
When dudes were playing Jordan, they were almost happy they got sonned by him. It makes a difference when dudes are conceding baskets. Kobe's shots are almost always contested.
I'm actually somewhat drawn into KVH's "data pool" argument but the problem with it is that it substitutes a provocative idea for actual data analysis.
I also think that since "talent" is so ill-defined, the thesis is inherently untestable.
i haven't written a thesis on the subject, but its obvious that the talent pool has expanded dramatically (by the millions..its worldwide). there are over 80 international players in the nba right now and that number can only expand unless the nba is replaced as the world's premiere basketball league. the popularity of basketball in the US is much higher than it was in the 60s/70s/80s and even 90s. nba players make more money (on scale when compared to other professional athletes) than they did in earlier years. its on tv more. there is a far greater incentive for young people to want to play in the nba and the training has vastly improved....as has the exposure (bball camps, aau, etc.). if your good, someone is going to find you.
there were stars back then that would certainly be stars in 2009, but take a look at the general nba population. the talent has gotten better, period.
Defense in the late 80's/early 90's was the HARDEST ever.
Legal Hand-checks above the foul line.
Yea, but Kobe gets doubled more often, and everyone hates him.
When dudes were playing Jordan, they were almost happy they got sonned by him. It makes a difference when dudes are conceding baskets. Kobe's shots are almost always contested.
What the hell are u talmbout? Your speakin gibberish.
Kobe gets doubled more often than WHOM? Any great scorer gets double teamed if the defense commits to that idea. How does the "everyone hates him" idea factor into the "talent" increase/decrease?
Dudes were happy to get sonned by Jordan? How old were you when Detroit beat him the hell up, or when the Knicks beat the Bulls up in the second round(92playpoffs) to take it to game 7? X-Man,Mason,Anthony,Oakley,and Ewing tried to "get physical" w/ Jordan. And it almost worked. "Almost Happy to get sonned" is some real fantasy bullshit.
So KOBE's shot are almost always contested...........HUH? Whatever you are smokin/injecting,inhaling,licking,....you need to share that shit.
Does anyone here think these Lakers, or even this Magic team could beat the MJ/Pippen/Rodman/Cartwright/Harper/Kerr Bulls????
F*ck no. None of these wing players (including K.O.B.E.) wants to see Pippen on the defensive end. He'd make life miserable for 'em, and even if they get by him...there's Rodman. And MJ.
And that's not even getting into those Bulls on offense.
Does anyone here think these Lakers, or even this Magic team could beat the MJ/Pippen/Rodman/Cartwright/Harper/Kerr Bulls????
F*ck no. None of these wing players (including K.O.B.E.) wants to see Pippen on the defensive end. He'd make life miserable for 'em, and even if they get by him...there's Rodman. And MJ.
And that's not even getting into those Bulls on offense.
Does anyone here think these Lakers, or even this Magic team could beat the MJ/Pippen/Rodman/Cartwright/Harper/Kerr Bulls????
F*ck no. None of these wing players (including K.O.B.E.) wants to see Pippen on the defensive end. He'd make life miserable for 'em, and even if they get by him...there's Rodman. And MJ.
And that's not even getting into those Bulls on offense.
Pippen cant stop Kobe.
Of course; nobody can stop Kobe. But Pippen would have him working really hard and taking a lot of really tough shots and would generally be harrassing the shit out of him all game long. You'd definitely see a lot more 9-24 shooting performances and other such inefficiencies that hurt a team.
Does anyone here think these Lakers, or even this Magic team could beat the MJ/Pippen/Rodman/Cartwright/Harper/Kerr Bulls????
F*ck no. None of these wing players (including K.O.B.E.) wants to see Pippen on the defensive end. He'd make life miserable for 'em, and even if they get by him...there's Rodman. And MJ.
And that's not even getting into those Bulls on offense.
pippen has to be one of the most overrated players of all time. cartwright was a bum. harper was at the end of his career, and even as a cavalier, was about on larry hughe's level. rodman was a great defender and rebounder. kerr just shot 3s...but very well.
that being said, the lakers are not a deep team. kobe,odom and gasol are the only real ballers. bynum has been crap.
Does anyone here think these Lakers, or even this Magic team could beat the MJ/Pippen/Rodman/Cartwright/Harper/Kerr Bulls????
F*ck no. None of these wing players (including K.O.B.E.) wants to see Pippen on the defensive end. He'd make life miserable for 'em, and even if they get by him...there's Rodman. And MJ.
And that's not even getting into those Bulls on offense.
pippen has to be one of the most overrated players of all time. cartwright was a bum. harper was at the end of his career, and even as a cavalier, was about on larry hughe's level. rodman was a great defender and rebounder. kerr just shot 3s...but very well.
that being said, the lakers are not a deep team. kobe,odom and gasol are the only real ballers. bynum has been crap.
The Bulls ran the Triangle much tighter than these Lakers, w/ handchecks.
If they lost their manhood to the Celtics last year imagine what Rodman would have done to that frontline.
Defense in the late 80's/early 90's was the HARDEST ever.
Legal Hand-checks above the foul line.
Yea, but Kobe gets doubled more often, and everyone hates him.
When dudes were playing Jordan, they were almost happy they got sonned by him. It makes a difference when dudes are conceding baskets. Kobe's shots are almost always contested.
What the hell are u talmbout? Your speakin gibberish.
Kobe gets doubled more often than WHOM? Any great scorer gets double teamed if the defense commits to that idea. How does the "everyone hates him" idea factor into the "talent" increase/decrease?
Dudes were happy to get sonned by Jordan? How old were you when Detroit beat him the hell up, or when the Knicks beat the Bulls up in the second round(92playpoffs) to take it to game 7? X-Man,Mason,Anthony,Oakley,and Ewing tried to "get physical" w/ Jordan. And it almost worked. "Almost Happy to get sonned" is some real fantasy bullshit.
So KOBE's shot are almost always contested...........HUH? Whatever you are smokin/injecting,inhaling,licking,....you need to share that shit.
How many highlights do you see of Jordan's ass dancing around the perimeter cuz he has one man on him. Possibly his most famous shot had Byran "who?" Russell guarding him for the second year in a row, one-man coverage. That shit simply does not happen with Kobe in crunch time.
"Almost happy to get sonned" is probably the impression I got from him during the Olympics.
And yes, the shots that Kobe makes are impossible. You RARELY see him taking a wide-open J. Rarely. There's a reason ESPN talks about the "next great defender" that's supposed to stop Kobe. Almost every game, the dude guarding Kobe gets as much shine as he did in his entire career. Think about that.
Defense in the late 80's/early 90's was the HARDEST ever.
Legal Hand-checks above the foul line.
Yea, but Kobe gets doubled more often, and everyone hates him.
When dudes were playing Jordan, they were almost happy they got sonned by him. It makes a difference when dudes are conceding baskets. Kobe's shots are almost always contested.
What the hell are u talmbout? Your speakin gibberish.
Kobe gets doubled more often than WHOM? Any great scorer gets double teamed if the defense commits to that idea. How does the "everyone hates him" idea factor into the "talent" increase/decrease?
Dudes were happy to get sonned by Jordan? How old were you when Detroit beat him the hell up, or when the Knicks beat the Bulls up in the second round(92playpoffs) to take it to game 7? X-Man,Mason,Anthony,Oakley,and Ewing tried to "get physical" w/ Jordan. And it almost worked. "Almost Happy to get sonned" is some real fantasy bullshit.
So KOBE's shot are almost always contested...........HUH? Whatever you are smokin/injecting,inhaling,licking,....you need to share that shit.
How many highlights do you see of Jordan's ass dancing around the perimeter cuz he has one man on him. Possibly his most famous shot had Byran "who?" Russell guarding him for the second year in a row, one-man coverage. That shit simply does not happen with Kobe in crunch time.
"Almost happy to get sonned" is probably the impression I got from him during the Olympics.
And yes, the shots that Kobe makes are impossible. You RARELY see him taking a wide-open J. Rarely. There's a reason ESPN talks about the "next great defender" that's supposed to stop Kobe. Almost every game, the dude guarding Kobe gets as much shine as he did in his entire career. Think about that.
Since your using HIGHLIGHTS to back your feeble point....
What u saw in the Utah/Chicago Finals w Bryon Russell guarding MJ by himself isnt how Jordan was typically handled.
Really - what is your point? Jordan had it easier than K.O.B.E.?
Have your ever heard of the Detroit Pistons Jordan Rules?
Gerald Wilkins was known as the Jordan Stopper.
Do I have to get all-caps on your 10 years of NBA history ass?
He's not a spot up shooter. The Triangle isnt set up for the point guard to penetrate and dish to KOBE. He handles the ball for most of the offense despite the Triangle ball movement.
Reuben Patterson Raja Bell Bruce Bowen Shane Battier Tayshaun Prince Michael Pietrus
whatever
----------------------------------------------
Sporting News:
THE TOP FIVE
JOE DUMARS No one was capable of stopping Jordan one-on-one, but Dumars had more success than most because he focused on playing fundamental defense and wasn't intimidated. Jordan always mentioned Dumars when asked to name his toughest defenders, but the competition also brought out the best in Jordan at times. He scored 61 points in an overtime win against the Detroit Pistons in 1987 and added a 59-point effort in 1988.
MITCH RICHMOND Granted, Richmond isn't noted for his defense, but that was part of his secret. Richmond, a high-scoring guard in his own right, made Jordan work hard and expend a great deal of energy on defense. That often left Jordan with less in the tank on offense.
ALVIN ROBERTSON A teammate of Jordan's on the 1984 Olympic team, Robertson was one of the best guard defenders of his generation. Super quick with incredible balance and fast hands, Robertson had the ability to steal the ball from anyone -- including Jordan.
CLYDE DREXLER If the Portland Trail Blazers hadn't drafted Drexler the year before, there is no way Jordan would have slipped down to the Bulls at No. 3. Drexler's size (6-7) was a big asset in keeping Jordan out of the post.
ROLANDO BLACKMAN The longtime Dallas Mavericks guard wasn't fully appreciated as a defender, but was a tough matchup for anyone in the late 1980s.
THE BOTTOM FIVE
CRAIG EHLO Will go down in history as the sap who was trying to get a hand in Jordan's face as he made "The Shot," which eliminated the Cleveland Cavaliers from the 1989 playoffs, and also as the defender torched for Jordan's career-high 69 points in 1990. Ehlo was burnt more often than toast at the neighborhood diner because Lenny Wilkens, then the Cavaliers' coach, refused to double-team Jordan.
DELL CURRY The best thing that can be said of Curry's defensive abilities is that he ??s a heck of an outside shooter. Didn't possess the quickness or the jumping ability to bother Jordan especially when he returned to North Carolina to play before the folks in his home state.
DAN MAJERLE The Phoenix Suns might have had a shot at winning the 1993 NBA Finals if Majerle could have managed to do a better job. Jordan pumped in 56 points in Game 4 to help the Bulls take a 3-1 lead.
DEREK HARPER During Jordan's 55-point performance against the New York Knicks in the fifth game of his comeback in 1995, Harper was the victim on many of the fadeaway jumpers. Harper's physical style of play with Jordan was akin to tugging on Superman's cape.
JOHN STARKS Yes, there's room for two Knicks on this list. Like Harper, Starks often made the mistake of getting Jordan riled up. Starks was the primary victim as Jordan scored 54 points in Game 4 of the 1993 Eastern Conference finals to even the series after New York won the first two games.
He's not a spot up shooter. The Triangle isnt set up for the point guard to penetrate and dish to KOBE. He handles the ball for most of the offense despite the Triangle ball movement.
Allz I'm SaYing you old grumpy man, is that if you've watched KB of the past 3 years on t.v. regularly, you'll notice the degree of difficulty on his shots is higher than anything anyone's ever seen ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. 4 point plays? Spinning off B Roy in the corner and pulling off a fadeway three pointer on another defender? Those are what I mean by IMPOSSIBLE SHOTS.
Reuben Patterson Raja Bell Bruce Bowen Shane Battier Tayshaun Prince Michael Pietrus
whatever
----------------------------------------------
Sporting News:
THE TOP FIVE
JOE DUMARS No one was capable of stopping Jordan one-on-one, but Dumars had more success than most because he focused on playing fundamental defense and wasn't intimidated. Jordan always mentioned Dumars when asked to name his toughest defenders, but the competition also brought out the best in Jordan at times. He scored 61 points in an overtime win against the Detroit Pistons in 1987 and added a 59-point effort in 1988.
MITCH RICHMOND Granted, Richmond isn't noted for his defense, but that was part of his secret. Richmond, a high-scoring guard in his own right, made Jordan work hard and expend a great deal of energy on defense. That often left Jordan with less in the tank on offense.
ALVIN ROBERTSON A teammate of Jordan's on the 1984 Olympic team, Robertson was one of the best guard defenders of his generation. Super quick with incredible balance and fast hands, Robertson had the ability to steal the ball from anyone -- including Jordan.
CLYDE DREXLER If the Portland Trail Blazers hadn't drafted Drexler the year before, there is no way Jordan would have slipped down to the Bulls at No. 3. Drexler's size (6-7) was a big asset in keeping Jordan out of the post.
ROLANDO BLACKMAN The longtime Dallas Mavericks guard wasn't fully appreciated as a defender, but was a tough matchup for anyone in the late 1980s.
THE BOTTOM FIVE
CRAIG EHLO Will go down in history as the sap who was trying to get a hand in Jordan's face as he made "The Shot," which eliminated the Cleveland Cavaliers from the 1989 playoffs, and also as the defender torched for Jordan's career-high 69 points in 1990. Ehlo was burnt more often than toast at the neighborhood diner because Lenny Wilkens, then the Cavaliers' coach, refused to double-team Jordan.
DELL CURRY The best thing that can be said of Curry's defensive abilities is that he ??s a heck of an outside shooter. Didn't possess the quickness or the jumping ability to bother Jordan especially when he returned to North Carolina to play before the folks in his home state.
DAN MAJERLE The Phoenix Suns might have had a shot at winning the 1993 NBA Finals if Majerle could have managed to do a better job. Jordan pumped in 56 points in Game 4 to help the Bulls take a 3-1 lead.
DEREK HARPER During Jordan's 55-point performance against the New York Knicks in the fifth game of his comeback in 1995, Harper was the victim on many of the fadeaway jumpers. Harper's physical style of play with Jordan was akin to tugging on Superman's cape.
JOHN STARKS Yes, there's room for two Knicks on this list. Like Harper, Starks often made the mistake of getting Jordan riled up. Starks was the primary victim as Jordan scored 54 points in Game 4 of the 1993 Eastern Conference finals to even the series after New York won the first two games.
Very few of those players were known to be great defenders. That list means nothing.
Comments
you are seriously comparing the athleticism of rick barry to tmac and vince carter? rick barry would laugh at you.
Rick Barry -
NBA San Francisco Warriors (1965-67)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1966)
NBA leading scorer in 1967 (35.6 ppg)
ABA leading scorer in 1969 (34.0 ppg)
NBA highest free-throw percentage 1973, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980
ABA highest free-throw percentage 1969, 1971, 1972
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1967)
ABA Oakland Oaks (1968-69)
ABA Washington Caps (1969-70)
ABA New York Nets (1970-72)
NBA Golden State Warriors (1972-78)
All-NBA Second Team (1973)
NBA Finals MVP (1975)
NBA Houston Rockets (1978-79)
NBA most consecutive made free throws record (60 - held from 1976 until 1980)
All-NBA First Team (1966, 1967, 1974, 1975, 1976)
Eight time NBA All-Star (1966, 1967, 1973-78)
ABA All-Star First Team (1969-72)
NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team (1996)
-------------------------------------------------------
T-Mac -
2-time NBA scoring leader: 2003 (32.1), 2004 (28.0)
7-time NBA All-Star: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
7-time All-NBA:
First Team: 2002, 2003
Second Team: 2001, 2004, 2007
Third Team: 2005, 2008
NBA Most Improved Player Award: 2001
----------------------------------------------
Vince Carter -
8-time NBA All-Star selection: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 (did not play in 2002 due to injury)
2-time All-NBA:
Second Team: 2001
Third Team: 2000
NBA Slam Dunk Champion: 2000
NBA All-Rookie First Team: 1999
NBA Rookie of the Year Award: 1999
The Sporting News NBA Rookie of the Year: 1999[43]
TOP 50 -
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*
Nate Archibald*
Paul Arizin*
Charles Barkley*
Rick Barry*
Elgin Baylor*
Dave Bing*
Larry Bird*
Wilt Chamberlain*
Bob Cousy*
Dave Cowens*
Billy Cunningham*
Dave DeBusschere*
Clyde Drexler*
Julius Erving*
Patrick Ewing*
Walt Frazier*
George Gervin*
Hal Greer*
John Havlicek*
Elvin Hayes*
Magic Johnson*
Sam Jones*
Michael Jordan*
Jerry Lucas*
Karl Malone
Moses Malone*
Pete Maravich*
Kevin McHale*
George Mikan*
Earl Monroe*
Shaquille O'Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon*
Robert Parish*
Bob Pettit*
Scottie Pippen
Willis Reed*
Oscar Robertson*
David Robinson*
Bill Russell*
Dolph Schayes*
Bill Sharman*
John Stockton*
Isiah Thomas*
Nate Thurmond*
Wes Unseld*
Bill Walton*
Jerry West*
Lenny Wilkens*
James Worthy*
I also think that since "talent" is so ill-defined, the thesis is inherently untestable.
The NBA's expansion into Canada diluted the talent pool. Two more teams didnt help make the game better. Years later, the High School draft became a trend.
The big Euro movement has only produced a handfull of stars to to the elite.
The Modern NBA Era starts w/ the Bird/Magic 1979 NCAA Finals.
From 80 to '09 I'd say the "Talent" pool has actually gotten diluted, despite expansion, popularity, and globalization.
U could easily trash 10 teams in the NBA right now.
Yes, the media exposure has caused kids to pay more attention to the game over the years and dedicate themselves unlike the 70's or the early 80's. I cant tell u how many kids in my era emulated Jordan. Shit was bananas.
15 years later I cant say that following generations are more talented than a Earl Jesus Malone.
Of course your gonna have cats that push the game to the next level.
Garnett - out of High School who could play all 5 positions, but for every Garnett there is 20 regular-ass role players that spends 3 years in the L.
Because the line to join the NBA has gotten longer w/ cats from all over the world, the level of dilution has gotten heavier.
The NBA tried crazy hard to find the next Jordan - Ron Harper,JR Rider,Grant Hill,Vince Carter,Harold Miner,Jerry Stackhouse,Wade,K.O.B.E, and Lebron(23).
I understand riding your brightest star, but that has made kids gravitate to the NBA for stardom instead of all around skills. That curse has infected the culture of talent.
Blah blah blah..
what teams would you nominate?
Yea, but Kobe gets doubled more often, and everyone hates him.
When dudes were playing Jordan, they were almost happy they got sonned by him. It makes a difference when dudes are conceding baskets. Kobe's shots are almost always contested.
i haven't written a thesis on the subject, but its obvious that the talent pool has expanded dramatically (by the millions..its worldwide). there are over 80 international players in the nba right now and that number can only expand unless the nba is replaced as the world's premiere basketball league. the popularity of basketball in the US is much higher than it was in the 60s/70s/80s and even 90s. nba players make more money (on scale when compared to other professional athletes) than they did in earlier years. its on tv more. there is a far greater incentive for young people to want to play in the nba and the training has vastly improved....as has the exposure (bball camps, aau, etc.). if your good, someone is going to find you.
there were stars back then that would certainly be stars in 2009, but take a look at the general nba population. the talent has gotten better, period.
What the hell are u talmbout? Your speakin gibberish.
Kobe gets doubled more often than WHOM? Any great scorer gets double teamed if the defense commits to that idea. How does the "everyone hates him" idea factor into the "talent" increase/decrease?
Dudes were happy to get sonned by Jordan?
How old were you when Detroit beat him the hell up, or when the Knicks beat the Bulls up in the second round(92playpoffs) to take it to game 7?
X-Man,Mason,Anthony,Oakley,and Ewing tried to "get physical" w/ Jordan. And it almost worked.
"Almost Happy to get sonned" is some real fantasy bullshit.
So KOBE's shot are almost always contested...........HUH?
Whatever you are smokin/injecting,inhaling,licking,....you need to share that shit.
The Black Mamba???
F*ck no. None of these wing players (including K.O.B.E.) wants to see Pippen on the defensive end. He'd make life miserable for 'em, and even if they get by him...there's Rodman. And MJ.
And that's not even getting into those Bulls on offense.
Pippen cant stop Kobe.
Of course; nobody can stop Kobe. But Pippen would have him working really hard and taking a lot of really tough shots and would generally be harrassing the shit out of him all game long. You'd definitely see a lot more 9-24 shooting performances and other such inefficiencies that hurt a team.
And Im not that high on the Bulls of the second Utah meeting.
pippen has to be one of the most overrated players of all time. cartwright was a bum. harper was at the end of his career, and even as a cavalier, was about on larry hughe's level. rodman was a great defender and rebounder. kerr just shot 3s...but very well.
that being said, the lakers are not a deep team. kobe,odom and gasol are the only real ballers. bynum has been crap.
The Bulls ran the Triangle much tighter than these Lakers, w/ handchecks.
If they lost their manhood to the Celtics last year imagine what Rodman would have done to that frontline.
But on the bright side, it's fun to yell out Tracy Morgan quotes whenever Bynum's on screen.
"Here comes the funcooker!"
How many highlights do you see of Jordan's ass dancing around the perimeter cuz he has one man on him. Possibly his most famous shot had Byran "who?" Russell guarding him for the second year in a row, one-man coverage. That shit simply does not happen with Kobe in crunch time.
"Almost happy to get sonned" is probably the impression I got from him during the Olympics.
And yes, the shots that Kobe makes are impossible. You RARELY see him taking a wide-open J. Rarely. There's a reason ESPN talks about the "next great defender" that's supposed to stop Kobe. Almost every game, the dude guarding Kobe gets as much shine as he did in his entire career. Think about that.
I never once believed this crap. If they win it this year, it's because Kobe and Gasol overachieved (if that's possible).
Since your using HIGHLIGHTS to back your feeble point....
What u saw in the Utah/Chicago Finals w Bryon Russell guarding MJ by himself isnt how Jordan was typically handled.
Really - what is your point? Jordan had it easier than K.O.B.E.?
Have your ever heard of the Detroit Pistons Jordan Rules?
Gerald Wilkins was known as the Jordan Stopper.
Do I have to get all-caps on your 10 years of NBA history ass?
Do u watch the games at all? What does that mean?
He's not a spot up shooter.
The Triangle isnt set up for the point guard to penetrate and dish to KOBE.
He handles the ball for most of the offense despite the Triangle ball movement.
Reuben Patterson
Raja Bell
Bruce Bowen
Shane Battier
Tayshaun Prince
Michael Pietrus
Ron Artest
whatever
----------------------------------------------
Sporting News:
THE TOP FIVE
JOE DUMARS
No one was capable of stopping Jordan one-on-one, but Dumars had more success than most because he focused on playing fundamental defense and wasn't intimidated. Jordan always mentioned Dumars when asked to name his toughest defenders, but the competition also brought out the best in Jordan at times. He scored 61 points in an overtime win against the Detroit Pistons in 1987 and added a 59-point effort in 1988.
MITCH RICHMOND
Granted, Richmond isn't noted for his defense, but that was part of his secret. Richmond, a high-scoring guard in his own right, made Jordan work hard and expend a great deal of energy on defense. That often left Jordan with less in the tank on offense.
ALVIN ROBERTSON
A teammate of Jordan's on the 1984 Olympic team, Robertson was one of the best guard defenders of his generation. Super quick with incredible balance and fast hands, Robertson had the ability to steal the ball from anyone -- including Jordan.
CLYDE DREXLER
If the Portland Trail Blazers hadn't drafted Drexler the year before, there is no way Jordan would have slipped down to the Bulls at No. 3. Drexler's size (6-7) was a big asset in keeping Jordan out of the post.
ROLANDO BLACKMAN
The longtime Dallas Mavericks guard wasn't fully appreciated as a defender, but was a tough matchup for anyone in the late 1980s.
THE BOTTOM FIVE
CRAIG EHLO
Will go down in history as the sap who was trying to get a hand in Jordan's face as he made "The Shot," which eliminated the Cleveland Cavaliers from the 1989 playoffs, and also as the defender torched for Jordan's career-high 69 points in 1990. Ehlo was burnt more often than toast at the neighborhood diner because Lenny Wilkens, then the Cavaliers' coach, refused to double-team Jordan.
DELL CURRY
The best thing that can be said of Curry's defensive abilities is that he ??s a heck of an outside shooter. Didn't possess the quickness or the jumping ability to bother Jordan especially when he returned to North Carolina to play before the folks in his home state.
DAN MAJERLE
The Phoenix Suns might have had a shot at winning the 1993 NBA Finals if Majerle could have managed to do a better job. Jordan pumped in 56 points in Game 4 to help the Bulls take a 3-1 lead.
DEREK HARPER
During Jordan's 55-point performance against the New York Knicks in the fifth game of his comeback in 1995, Harper was the victim on many of the fadeaway jumpers. Harper's physical style of play with Jordan was akin to tugging on Superman's cape.
JOHN STARKS
Yes, there's room for two Knicks on this list. Like Harper, Starks often made the mistake of getting Jordan riled up. Starks was the primary victim as Jordan scored 54 points in Game 4 of the 1993 Eastern Conference finals to even the series after New York won the first two games.
Allz I'm SaYing you old grumpy man, is that if you've watched KB of the past 3 years on t.v. regularly, you'll notice the degree of difficulty on his shots is higher than anything anyone's ever seen ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. 4 point plays? Spinning off B Roy in the corner and pulling off a fadeway three pointer on another defender? Those are what I mean by IMPOSSIBLE SHOTS.
Very few of those players were known to be great defenders. That list means nothing.
Did Kobe wear Air Jordans???