HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
"A straight person saying 'faggot' is not as bad as a non-Black person saying 'nigger'."
That is the truth though.
As someone who has a tooth missing because some rednecks presumably didn't like the way I was dressed and decided to beat me until "you admit that your a poofter", i find rating things on the hate-o-meter pretty offensive.
Hate is hate. Trying to pass it off as a colloquialism is bullshit. It makes me mad every time I read it on here, and it makes me even madder when people get on some "my hurt is worse than your hurt" BS.
Someone is hating you for something you can't change in both instances.
For the record- I'm not outing myself on the strut - I have a girlfriend, and beyond that it's none of anyones business.
I'm very sorry that that happened to you.
But until you've been ripped from from your family and heritage, stuffed in a disease-ridden ship like a sardine, risked death as you are taken across an ocean, forced to do manual labor under the coersion of routine whippings and very real threats of lynchings and castrations, had your wife and children stolen away from you, denied an education, been legally defined as only 3/5th of a man, faced unapologetic and systematically overt discrimination over the course of 400+ years, and on top of all of that you lack the chance to ever hide from being a product of such a sordid history...plaese to fall back.
using the oppression of one group to defend the oppression of another. Nice.
How am I "defending" the oppression of anyone?
I'm only saying that the use of one word doesn't contain the full baggage of the use of another word.
I already stated that I don't use the word myself.
But apparently that's not enough for you.
Are you seriously expecting me to just go along with anything you say regardless of my own beliefs/experiences?
"A straight person saying 'faggot' is not as bad as a non-Black person saying 'nigger'."
That is the truth though.
As someone who has a tooth missing because some rednecks presumably didn't like the way I was dressed and decided to beat me until "you admit that your a poofter", i find rating things on the hate-o-meter pretty offensive.
Hate is hate. Trying to pass it off as a colloquialism is bullshit. It makes me mad every time I read it on here, and it makes me even madder when people get on some "my hurt is worse than your hurt" BS.
Someone is hating you for something you can't change in both instances.
For the record- I'm not outing myself on the strut - I have a girlfriend, and beyond that it's none of anyones business.
I'm very sorry that that happened to you.
But until you've been ripped from from your family and heritage, stuffed in a disease-ridden ship like a sardine, risked death as you are taken across an ocean, forced to do manual labor under the coersion of routine whippings and very real threats of lynchings and castrations, had your wife and children stolen away from you, denied an education, been legally defined as only 3/5th of a man, faced unapologetic and systematically overt discrimination over the course of 400+ years, and on top of all of that you lack the chance to ever hide from being a product of such a sordid history...plaese to fall back.
using the oppression of one group to defend the oppression of another. Nice.
How am I "defending" the oppression of anyone?
I'm only saying that the use of one word doesn't contain the full baggage of the use of another word.
I already stated that I don't use the word myself.
But apparently that's not enough for you.
Are you seriously expecting me to just go along with anything you say regardless of my own beliefs/experiences?
the two words are ... different??? you don't say! I don't think anyone actually inferred they were the same, just that dude's defense of 'the fword' is about as shallow as it would be should he try to defend 'the nword' by the same argument
I wish I hadn't used the word faggy in my response on the first page of this. I recognized that Fatback was being tongue in cheek by using it, and I responded with the same in mind, but it wasn't really a good look. Sorry if I offended anyone.
BUT...if I see a man acting over-the-top feminine, and I'm not just talking about a regular dude who happens to love another regular dude, I reserve the right to make fun of him.
So, is a guy acting feminine any more absurd than a white guy who calls himself Rasheid?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
BUT...if I see a man acting over-the-top feminine, and I'm not just talking about a regular dude who happens to love another regular dude, I reserve the right to make fun of him.
So, is a guy acting feminine any more absurd than a white guy who calls himself Rasheid?
And y'all reserve the right to make fun of me on that any time y'all feel like it.
BUT...if I see a man acting over-the-top feminine, and I'm not just talking about a regular dude who happens to love another regular dude, I reserve the right to make fun of him.
So, is a guy acting feminine any more absurd than a white guy who calls himself Rasheid?
And y'all reserve the right to make fun of me on that any time y'all feel like it.
So what's your point?
Its that people have identities & personalities & they don't have to apologize for them & that to outsiders it may all look strange & weird, but to the people living it, it's normal & makes them happy. You must have a reason for choosing your name. To someone who doesn't know it, they might make all kinds of assumptions. Why does a gay guy talk like that? I have no clue. But there must be reasons, and I'm not going to hazard a guess, make an assumption, or mock them for it, the same way people should respect your choice.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
BUT...if I see a man acting over-the-top feminine, and I'm not just talking about a regular dude who happens to love another regular dude, I reserve the right to make fun of him.
So, is a guy acting feminine any more absurd than a white guy who calls himself Rasheid?
And y'all reserve the right to make fun of me on that any time y'all feel like it.
So what's your point?
Its that people have identities & personalities & they don't have to apologize for them & that to outsiders it may all look strange & weird, but to the people living it, it's normal & makes them happy. You must have a reason for choosing your name. To someone who doesn't know it, they might make all kinds of assumptions. Why does a gay guy talk like that? I have no clue. But there must be reasons, and I'm not going to hazard a guess, make an assumption, or mock them for it, the same way people should respect your choice.
Good for you (seriously), and I'm not hurt that people don't "respect my choice". It's their opinion, so let them fire away.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
With all due respect to BATMON's comic posting prowess:
Fatback: From Michael Moore soapbox to Jim Goad in 2.3 posts. How precious.
For the record, I didn't flunk. And thanks for the offer, professor, but I'll continue my grad work where I am.
I'll put this in terms that even you can understand. First of all, you're backpeddling. You didn't just say that the struggles were different. Again, that's fairly uncontroversial. What you said was that the moral equivalnce argument is bullshit. The crux of a moral equivalence argument is not that two sets of circumstances are the same. It states instead that their moral values are the same. In, short smashing your head in with a brick because I didn't like how your sneakers look is morally equivalent to stabbing you to death because I didn't like your pants.
For the record, I believe there are problems with the concept of "moral equivalence." In particular, I don't think the moral value of something can be neatly measured. I do think, however, that on so many points "faggot" and "nigger" are so morally similar in terms of who says them, why, etc. that you can't just dismiss their similarities a priori-- which is what you've attempted to do here. You now are desperate for us to change the subject because it will spare you the embarassment of having to say "Hey guys. I was wrong. Sorry."
You're a new parent, right? If I'm mistaken, I apologize. If not, I'll leave yu with this. Let's say your kid's Gay and comes home crying "People in school are always saying faggot and calling things gay." Are you going to respond with the same sort of defensive "get over it" attitude? "That's nothing compared to saying nigger. Man up, bitch!"
As far as Canal's statement to the tune of: "But Gay people have never been enslaved because they are Gay. And Gay people can pretend to not be Gay."
Absurd argument. That Gay people haven't been decimated (?) owes more the inability of those who hate them to do so than to a lack of hatred comparable to the hatred-- or the indifference-- of those who wanted to kill or enslave Black people. I agree, being Gay-- which is a fairly contemporary concept-- didn't allow for scores of Gay people to be rounded up and be forced to be a source of stolen labor (although this has been attempted in recent history and I can provide you with examples if you'd like), but this doesn't mean that the premise of calling someone you don't like a "faggot" is less bad than calling that person a "nigger" for a similar reason. And if a good portion of Black people could pretend to not be Black would that make the racism that other Black people face less attrocious? What you're attempting to do is prioritize bigotries.
I'll fall back - I was talking hate vs hate rather than history vs history.
I empathize with my indian/asian/aboriginal friends here when they talk about being marginalized for something they cannot control. Obviously slavery is a whole nother kettle of fish.
My personality is effeminate, I grew up with girls and without a strong father figure - I am neither ashamed or appologetic of this fact. But I know there are only some pubs/clubs I can go without some assclown trying to crack my skull because I challenge his archaic neanderthal image of masculinity.
So the office is having a little "dunk tank" thing to raise some money for the x-mas party. Everybody gets this email from one of the girls that was going to participate:
All,
I must decline my acceptance as a nominee for the dunk tank. I was informed yesterday that I will be leaving on a deployment for the Air Force on Sunday.
I wish I could make it but I'm sure you guys will have a wonderful time dunking L*e and M*r*n[/b] instead. :-)
So M*r*n[/b] (who is a bit of a smartass) responds with some smack talking:
Just one less Non-throwing female to laugh at I guess........
Then, this email shows up:
That comment sounded a little insulting to this female regardless of who it was directed at. Please watch your "cute" replies when so many recipients are involved.
K*lly
The strange part? K*lly wasn't a female when she started working here. She was a he. A big HE. Used to be an Army Ranger. The email where the head office announces that K*lly will no be using the women's restroom was called "the email heard 'round the world". Now go read that last part again. K*lly is a feminist now. There is something really awesome about that.
And thats my worthless story for the day.
If you work with a woman named Moron, what's her nickname?
So the office is having a little "dunk tank" thing to raise some money for the x-mas party. Everybody gets this email from one of the girls that was going to participate:
All,
I must decline my acceptance as a nominee for the dunk tank. I was informed yesterday that I will be leaving on a deployment for the Air Force on Sunday.
I wish I could make it but I'm sure you guys will have a wonderful time dunking L*e and M*r*n[/b] instead. :-)
So M*r*n[/b] (who is a bit of a smartass) responds with some smack talking:
Just one less Non-throwing female to laugh at I guess........
Then, this email shows up:
That comment sounded a little insulting to this female regardless of who it was directed at. Please watch your "cute" replies when so many recipients are involved.
K*lly
The strange part? K*lly wasn't a female when she started working here. She was a he. A big HE. Used to be an Army Ranger. The email where the head office announces that K*lly will no be using the women's restroom was called "the email heard 'round the world". Now go read that last part again. K*lly is a feminist now. There is something really awesome about that.
And thats my worthless story for the day.
If you work with a woman named Moron, what's her nickname?
thats funny, cause i was thinking her name was Moron, too.
Try a moscow mule. Just squeeze half a lime with a shot of vodka then top with ginger beer (not ginger ale).
that looks amazing
They are. You have to make sure it's made with ginger beer and not ginger ale, a lot of numbskulls out there don't know the difference. These things are tight.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Just for the record...I also laugh (usually to myself) when I see a woman who acts like a man, or when I see a dog that acts like a cat.
Just for the record...I also laugh (usually to myself) when I see a woman who acts like a man, or when I see a dog that acts like a cat.
There's no hate involved.
So Rashied, do you make sure your wife stays in the kitchen, barefoot, and pregnant or do you just hope she falls into your pathetic idea of gender roles?
But seriously, I know what you mean. When I see a pathetic herb like you act like an ignorant dickhead I laugh (mostly to myself).
All previous Soulstrut bullshit aside, saying this is a bad look doesn't even cover it. Everything else has been over differences over music and whatever else comes into play but damn they way you think is really ignorant and shows your ass.
I'm not perfect or without my share of the same shit, but DAMN. It runs really deep with you.
I'll fall back - I was talking hate vs hate rather than history vs history.
I empathize with my indian/asian/aboriginal friends here when they talk about being marginalized for something they cannot control. Obviously slavery is a whole nother kettle of fish.
My personality is effeminate, I grew up with girls and without a strong father figure - I am neither ashamed or appologetic of this fact. But I know there are only some pubs/clubs I can go without some assclown trying to crack my skull because I challenge his archaic neanderthal image of masculinity.
Dunno if this was a response to me, but I was actually in agreement with you that saying "faggot" is just as bad. Just to clear up any confusion.
I'll fall back - I was talking hate vs hate rather than history vs history.
I empathize with my indian/asian/aboriginal friends here when they talk about being marginalized for something they cannot control. Obviously slavery is a whole nother kettle of fish.
My personality is effeminate, I grew up with girls and without a strong father figure - I am neither ashamed or appologetic of this fact. But I know there are only some pubs/clubs I can go without some assclown trying to crack my skull because I challenge his archaic neanderthal image of masculinity.
Dunno if this was a response to me, but I was actually in agreement with you that saying "faggot" is just as bad. Just to clear up any confusion.
You are totally my favorite stutter now. We have not had this kind of informative and thoughtful insight in almost 15 years. Not to mention all the new words I am learning. Do I have to be a dick all the time to get you out?
fatback,i dont really understand why you get your rocks off on starting threads like this. i didnt really have the biggest problem with it, but deej has every right to say NAGL.
anyone who tried to clown him as the pc police needs to fall the fuck back. i hope yall have the guts to speak up when yall feel some ignorant prejudice is being displayed...even at the risk of being wrong. so, thanks deej...props.
i didnt post in the most embarassing thin in your life thread...but for me it was definitely the points in my life when i followed others in grade school who engaged in racist jokes and other bullshit behavior. i was eleven,but i still look at it and shake my head. im sure a lot of white people have been taken into confidence by white strangers who say ignorant shit...i used to just get silent and walk away. i realized it takes a lot more courage to tell them immediately how ignorant racist statements are and that you are not feeling that shit.
might be off topic... but id love to see "rashied" (LOL) make fun of some of philly's effeminate community to their face. "harvey", go down to 13th street and pop some shit at the first fem dude you see. i guarantee you, your punk ass will leave in a stretcher
id love to see you explain those injuries in your little rap nerd circles
anyone who tried to clown him as the pc police needs to fall the fuck back. i hope yall have the guts to speak up when yall feel some ignorant prejudice is being displayed...even at the risk of being wrong. so, thanks deej...props.
Calling people PC is a weak comeback. It is attempting to deflect from being called out and makes it about some sort of agenda - it is possible that people who do not like the use of faggity or faggot are actually offended by it and are not trying to ram ideology down people's throats.
I didn't have a problem posting in this thread because I don't think Fatback is a homophobe and while it may be tasteless, imo, it is nothing like some of the shit that people let pass all the time here or akin to calling people fags or clowning masculinity when things get heated...using it as an insult. I did regret being part of the thread though when people tried to justify/excuse its use across the board and started playing one of SoulStrut's favourite games "Who Has Suffered More?".
Push people into a corner, they will say some outrageous shit.
Strut folks are super-selective about what they let pass and what they don't - some don't give a shit and some choose their battles. And of course, the chances of a poster getting away with shit-talking increases with her/his popularity.
anyone who tried to clown him as the pc police needs to fall the fuck back. i hope yall have the guts to speak up when yall feel some ignorant prejudice is being displayed...even at the risk of being wrong. so, thanks deej...props.
Calling people PC is a weak comeback. It is attempting to deflect from being called out and makes it about some sort of agenda - it is possible that people who do not like the use of faggity or faggot are actually offended by it and are not trying to ram ideology down people's throats.
I didn't have a problem posting in this thread because I don't think Fatback is a homophobe and while it may be tasteless, imo, it is nothing like some of the shit that people let pass all the time here or akin to calling people fags or clowning masculinity when things get heated...using it as an insult. I did regret being part of the thread though when people tried to justify/excuse its use across the board and started playing one of SoulStrut's favourite games "Who Has Suffered More?".
Push people into a corner, they will say some outrageous shit.
Strut folks are super-selective about what they let pass and what they don't - some don't give a shit and some choose their battles. And of course, the chances of a poster getting away with shit-talking increases with her/his popularity.
i'm not down with..."you are a hypocrite cause you have issue with _______, while you are always saying ________" the issue is the action at hand, not the character of the one calling into quesiton the action. ifitwas, we'd all have to shut the fuck up and wait for jesus or allah to appear to address injustice. anyone should speak up about anything they feel isnt right.
Comments
How am I "defending" the oppression of anyone?
I'm only saying that the use of one word doesn't contain the full baggage of the use of another word.
I already stated that I don't use the word myself.
But apparently that's not enough for you.
Are you seriously expecting me to just go along with anything you say regardless of my own beliefs/experiences?
the two words are ... different??? you don't say! I don't think anyone actually inferred they were the same, just that dude's defense of 'the fword' is about as shallow as it would be should he try to defend 'the nword' by the same argument
So, is a guy acting feminine any more absurd than a white guy who calls himself Rasheid?
And y'all reserve the right to make fun of me on that any time y'all feel like it.
So what's your point?
I think it fits.
Its that people have identities & personalities & they don't have to apologize for them & that to outsiders it may all look strange & weird, but to the people living it, it's normal & makes them happy. You must have a reason for choosing your name. To someone who doesn't know it, they might make all kinds of assumptions. Why does a gay guy talk like that? I have no clue. But there must be reasons, and I'm not going to hazard a guess, make an assumption, or mock them for it, the same way people should respect your choice.
Good for you (seriously), and I'm not hurt that people don't "respect my choice". It's their opinion, so let them fire away.
Me too.
Fatback: From Michael Moore soapbox to Jim Goad in 2.3 posts. How precious.
For the record, I didn't flunk. And thanks for the offer, professor, but I'll continue my grad work where I am.
I'll put this in terms that even you can understand. First of all, you're backpeddling. You didn't just say that the struggles were different. Again, that's fairly uncontroversial. What you said was that the moral equivalnce argument is bullshit. The crux of a moral equivalence argument is not that two sets of circumstances are the same. It states instead that their moral values are the same. In, short smashing your head in with a brick because I didn't like how your sneakers look is morally equivalent to stabbing you to death because I didn't like your pants.
For the record, I believe there are problems with the concept of "moral equivalence." In particular, I don't think the moral value of something can be neatly measured. I do think, however, that on so many points "faggot" and "nigger" are so morally similar in terms of who says them, why, etc. that you can't just dismiss their similarities a priori-- which is what you've attempted to do here. You now are desperate for us to change the subject because it will spare you the embarassment of having to say "Hey guys. I was wrong. Sorry."
You're a new parent, right? If I'm mistaken, I apologize. If not, I'll leave yu with this. Let's say your kid's Gay and comes home crying "People in school are always saying faggot and calling things gay." Are you going to respond with the same sort of defensive "get over it" attitude? "That's nothing compared to saying nigger. Man up, bitch!"
As far as Canal's statement to the tune of:
"But Gay people have never been enslaved because they are Gay. And Gay people can pretend to not be Gay."
Absurd argument. That Gay people haven't been decimated (?) owes more the inability of those who hate them to do so than to a lack of hatred comparable to the hatred-- or the indifference-- of those who wanted to kill or enslave Black people. I agree, being Gay-- which is a fairly contemporary concept-- didn't allow for scores of Gay people to be rounded up and be forced to be a source of stolen labor (although this has been attempted in recent history and I can provide you with examples if you'd like), but this doesn't mean that the premise of calling someone you don't like a "faggot" is less bad than calling that person a "nigger" for a similar reason. And if a good portion of Black people could pretend to not be Black would that make the racism that other Black people face less attrocious? What you're attempting to do is prioritize bigotries.
I empathize with my indian/asian/aboriginal friends here when they talk about being marginalized for something they cannot control. Obviously slavery is a whole nother kettle of fish.
My personality is effeminate, I grew up with girls and without a strong father figure - I am neither ashamed or appologetic of this fact. But I know there are only some pubs/clubs I can go without some assclown trying to crack my skull because I challenge his archaic neanderthal image of masculinity.
If you work with a woman named Moron, what's her nickname?
thats funny, cause i was thinking her name was Moron, too.
They are. You have to make sure it's made with ginger beer and not ginger ale, a lot of numbskulls out there don't know the difference. These things are tight.
There's no hate involved.
So Rashied, do you make sure your wife stays in the kitchen, barefoot, and pregnant or do you just hope she falls into your pathetic idea of gender roles?
But seriously, I know what you mean. When I see a pathetic herb like you act like an ignorant dickhead I laugh (mostly to myself).
All previous Soulstrut bullshit aside, saying this is a bad look doesn't even cover it. Everything else has been over differences over music and whatever else comes into play but damn they way you think is really ignorant and shows your ass.
I'm not perfect or without my share of the same shit, but DAMN. It runs really deep with you.
WAITING FOR A NICE RESPONSE ABOUT ME BEING "SOFT"
Dunno if this was a response to me, but I was actually in agreement with you that saying "faggot" is just as bad. Just to clear up any confusion.
You are totally my favorite stutter now. We have not had this kind of informative and thoughtful insight in almost 15 years. Not to mention all the new words I am learning. Do I have to be a dick all the time to get you out?
anyone who tried to clown him as the pc police needs to fall the fuck back.
i hope yall have the guts to speak up when yall feel some ignorant prejudice is being displayed...even at the risk of being wrong. so, thanks deej...props.
i didnt post in the most embarassing thin in your life thread...but for me it was definitely the points in my life when i followed others in grade school who engaged in racist jokes and other bullshit behavior. i was eleven,but i still look at it and shake my head. im sure a lot of white people have been taken into confidence by white strangers who say ignorant shit...i used to just get silent and walk away. i realized it takes a lot more courage to tell them immediately how ignorant racist statements are and that you are not feeling that shit.
cowards dont speak up.
Oh fucking please.
b/w
I'm proud to be associated with at least 50% of these semi-annual occurrences X sigh.
but id love to see "rashied" (LOL) make fun of some of philly's effeminate community to their face. "harvey", go down to 13th street and pop some shit at the first fem dude you see. i guarantee you, your punk ass will leave in a stretcher
id love to see you explain those injuries in your little rap nerd circles
Calling people PC is a weak comeback. It is attempting to deflect from being called out and makes it about some sort of agenda - it is possible that people who do not like the use of faggity or faggot are actually offended by it and are not trying to ram ideology down people's throats.
I didn't have a problem posting in this thread because I don't think Fatback is a homophobe and while it may be tasteless, imo, it is nothing like some of the shit that people let pass all the time here or akin to calling people fags or clowning masculinity when things get heated...using it as an insult. I did regret being part of the thread though when people tried to justify/excuse its use across the board and started playing one of SoulStrut's favourite games "Who Has Suffered More?".
Push people into a corner, they will say some outrageous shit.
Strut folks are super-selective about what they let pass and what they don't - some don't give a shit and some choose their battles.
And of course, the chances of a poster getting away with shit-talking increases with her/his popularity.
totally
i'm not down with..."you are a hypocrite cause you have issue with _______, while you are always saying ________"
the issue is the action at hand, not the character of the one calling into quesiton the action. ifitwas, we'd all have to shut the fuck up and wait for jesus or allah to appear to address injustice. anyone should speak up about anything they feel isnt right.
ok, im out
sorry, looked at the thread for the first time this morning. i was playing catch up. also, fuck you fall back.
peace,t