More than anything the Harry Potter phenomenon just makes me sad for the state of reading in our culture.
Yeah, this book demostrated rather persuasively that some people really shouldn't be reading. I had adults parroting the conspiracy theory back to me as gospel truth. They really believed it. If you're that incapable of separating fiction from reality, perhaps novels aren't for you.
As for the Potter books, if the choice is between children reading Harry Potter or not reading at all (which I have to imagine is the case for plenty of children), then it's a positive thing. They probably won't turn around and pick up the collected works of Shakespeare, but if it establishes a reading habit at a young age, that opens the door for weightier fare later on.
As for the Potter books, if the choice is between children reading Harry Potter or not reading at all (which I have to imagine is the case for plenty of children), then it's a positive thing. They probably won't turn around and pick up the collected works of Shakespeare, but if it establishes a reading habit at a young age, that opens the door for weightier fare later on.
That's how it went for me. Reading Harry Potter turned me on to reading in general, which is what I've done with most of my time since then. That's proof enough for me that they're a gateway into heavier shit.
Its not really about reading. Its the entire EXP. The comradery w/ other heads. The Cult of Personality. Just becasue its reading, which has significant merit, can u really place the writing style into the "canon of standards" that people NEED to cop. If its as simple as "At least their reading" then Penhouse Forum is cool.
I'm going to go further and say that I don't see much merit in merely reading for the sake of reading, unless it's helping someone achieve a basic level of literacy, which I don't think is generally the case here.
I am not at all confident that the Harry Potter franchise acts as a gateway to more important books--at least not for adults.
By contrast, I give major props to Oprah, who not only gets people reading, but gets them reading good books.
More than anything the Harry Potter phenomenon just makes me sad for the state of reading in our culture.
Im with faux here. That adults will wait in a line of 5000 people for a childrens book while works of Nabokov, Miller, or Hesse sit collecting dust seems terrible to me. If people want to read new books, thats great. Murakami, Sedaris, etc etc are people writing great books within the last couple of years. Why ignore these in favor of a 12 year old boy with a magic wand?
Im with faux here. That adults will wait in a line of 5000 people for a childrens book while works of Nabokov, Miller, or Hesse sit collecting dust seems terrible to me. If people want to read new books, thats great. Murakami, Sedaris, etc etc are people writing great books within the last couple of years. Why ignore these in favor of a 12 year old boy with a magic wand?
That be the truth man. I think the problem these adults have is that they want the satisfaction of knowing that they have read an actual novel when it wasn't mandatory in high school, and they see this as the easy way of getting it, because the story/language is made for children. Unlike the "classics", the subject matter is portrayed as something easy to understand and relate to.
The thing with that is, if one reads someone like Vonnegut or Hornby or Kesey, or even just flip the pages to get a feel for it, they'll find that the language isn't complicated at all, and the story is way more fulfilling.
I think all the bashing of adults who read Potter is some stupid shit "it makes feel bad for reading in general" blah blah blah.....Granted I have been teasing my girl (who is 28) all week because she was going to the midnight release for the book becasue she is a big fan (I asked her if she was going to wear a cloak, etc. just teasing her in good fun). However she reads every Murakami book that comes out, Faulkner, etc. she is just a well-read reader...she reads all the time. I think saying all the adults who read Potter are just some DaVinci Code, Tom Clancy level readers is some misinformed, ivory tower "you mad doggie" bullshit.
I have no problem w/ any age reading Harry Potter. We all like Escapism.
Says our resident comic book man of steel.
But, I digress.
I read something this week that indicated that Harry Potter wasn't necessarily a gateway series for a lot of kids; some will finish it and go straight back to the PS2, and that will be that.
At the same time, books require a certain imagination that is not demanded from any other sort of art. And to see thousands of kids dressing in costume, and shaking with excitement to suspend disbelief, and give themselves and their imagination over to reading is a GREAT thing.
The adults who read? Some I know are very literary folk; one is racing to finish Gravity's Rainbow so he can move onto this. Some are DaVinci Code believing folls. Whatever. Given the sad state of literacy in this country at this point, I'm not going to get elitist about it.
Digression: Telling people that you are a serious reader gets a lot of responses similar to saying you collect records. Just replace, 'i've got some old Boston and REO Speedwagon records that are just great,' with 'yeah, did you read those Dan Brown books? I think those are great.'
Yeah, I've never read any of the books but seeing people going off for A BOOK (and for reading in general) is SUCH a good look it's amazing.
This is how I feel, too. In fact, I was in Harvard Square last night too, taking my Dad out to celebrate his retirement, and we were amazed at the level of madness - thousands and thousands of Potter freaks, hundreds of extra cops on detail, it was like New Years Eve or something ... we were kind of griping about it as we walked along, but at some point we agreed that if there can be this level of excitement in 2007 over a book, if kids are really this amped because they want to READ, how can that be seen as a bad thing? I gotta disagree with those who think it's not about the reading, and that it won't help encourage more reading among young (and older) people. Seems to me reading is the type of thing that once you find yourself enjoying it, you seek out more opportunities to feel that way. I imagine Harry Potter, regardless of your feelings towards the content, has made readers out of hundreds of thousands of people who weren't before, and I'll always consider that a good thing.
I think all the bashing of adults who read Potter is some stupid shit "it makes feel bad for reading in general" blah blah blah.....Granted I have been teasing my girl (who is 28) all week because she was going to the midnight release for the book becasue she is a big fan (I asked her if she was going to wear a cloak, etc. just teasing her in good fun). However she reads every Murakami book that comes out, Faulkner, etc. she is just a well-read reader...she reads all the time. I think saying all the adults who read Potter are just some DaVinci Code, Tom Clancy level readers is some misinformed, ivory tower "you mad doggie" bullshit.
Then this doesn't apply to your girlfriend.
I don't beleive that reading Harry Potter doing anybody any harm. But thinking it the end-all-be-all of literature, which some people seem to think, strikes me as sad. I also think it is fine to eat a hamburger now and again. But to eat only that is obviously not going to do anybody any favors.
It is obviously a fun diversion for people, which is fine. All the same, I dont think the attention is recieves is even remotely warranted.
And yeah, I think people who never leave their town, read only airort fare, eat junk food seven days a week, and consider Match Box 40 the gold standard of music are missing out on huge joys in life.
I think all the bashing of adults who read Potter is some stupid shit "it makes feel bad for reading in general" blah blah blah.....Granted I have been teasing my girl (who is 28) all week because she was going to the midnight release for the book becasue she is a big fan (I asked her if she was going to wear a cloak, etc. just teasing her in good fun). However she reads every Murakami book that comes out, Faulkner, etc. she is just a well-read reader...she reads all the time. I think saying all the adults who read Potter are just some DaVinci Code, Tom Clancy level readers is some misinformed, ivory tower "you mad doggie" bullshit.
You're swinging at a straw man. No need to get asshurt.
Fuck it, I read all the time, all sorts of shit and I love this shit.
I'm a reading teacher to students with disabilities and I watched a teenager with emotional disturbance come into my room at lunch and ask if he could read Harry Potter instead of get in trouble with his thuggish friends on the quad, so yeah, I think Harry is good shit.
Fuck it, I read all the time, all sorts of shit and I love this shit.
I'm a reading teacher to students with disabilities and I watched a teenager with emotional disturbance come into my room at lunch and ask if he could read Harry Potter instead of get in trouble with his thuggish friends on the quad, so yeah, I think Harry is good shit.
we're trying to be as negative as possible in this thread anna, please move along.
By contrast, I give major props to Oprah, who not only gets people reading, but gets them reading good books.
More than anything the Harry Potter phenomenon just makes me sad for the state of reading in our culture.
:eyeroll:
I'm not the one to buy into hype or enjoy that cheesy sword and sorcery stuff either, but just because not everyone is into the highbrow, racial sensitivo stuff like you doesn't make them dumb. Not every book has to be Michael Eric Dyson.
Using long words just for the sake of using long words is fun.
What a bunch of pompous pseudo-intellectual assholes! Fuck you and your I only read great literature bullshit.
One of the best ways to get children to read is with high interest books. If you think Tom Sawyer and Treasure Island is of any interest to kids today you are a dumb-ass. (Of course we know you are a dumb-ass by the way you look down your nose at Harry Potter.)
Good things about the series: 1) The characters are great. Some are shallow and are only there for plot purposes, but Harry and the other main characters are well developed.
2) The relationships are real. She does a great job of expressing the way boys and girls and boys and boys interact. She also does a good job of expressing Harry's abandonment issues and other psychological aspects of the characters.
3) They are fun. Do you read Hillerman? Grafton? Comic Books? Graphic Novels? Magazines? Internet boards? Get a clue people, there is nothing wrong with children (or adults) reading for fun.
4) The stories are creative, imaginative and compelling.
Sure there are problems, on a literary level, with her writing. Still she is head and shoulders above Dan Brown (of course so is your dog). I think she is much better than that Tolkien guy too.
All you hatters don't need to panic. Children's literature is much better today than when we were kids. Christopher Paul Curtis is one of the best writers America has ever produced (Watsons Go To Birmingham, Bud Not Buddy, Bucking The Sarge). Kate Di Camilo, Dan Gutman, Sandra Creech are writing much better books for children than all the pompous high literature you guys are carrying around to impress your friends.
1) The characters are great. Some are shallow and are only their for plot purposes, but Harry and the other main characters are well developed.
2) The relationships are real. She does a great job of expressing the way boys and girls and boys and boys interact. She also does a good job of expressing Harry's abandonment issues and other psychological aspects of the characters.
3) They are fun. Do you read Hillerman? Grafton? Comic Books? Graphic Novels? Magazines? Internet boards? Get a clue people, there is nothing wrong with children (or adults) reading for fun.
4) The stories are creative, imaginative and compelling.
More than anything the Harry Potter phenomenon just makes me sad for the state of reading in our culture.
Yeah, this book demostrated rather persuasively that some people really shouldn't be reading. I had adults parroting the conspiracy theory back to me as gospel truth. They really believed it. If you're that incapable of separating fiction from reality, perhaps novels aren't for you.
harry potter dies and hermione becomes the next "harry" of the wizarding world. best book out of the 7 for me. all hormones and sex! at least harry got to beat it out a few times with chinese cho before being offed by snape.
All you hatters don't need to panic. Children's literature is much better today than when we were kids. Christopher Paul Curtis is one of the best writers America has ever produced (Watsons Go To Birmingham, Bud Not Buddy, Bucking The Sarge). Kate Di Camilo, Dan Gutman, Sandra Creech are writing much better books for children than all the pompous high literature you guys are carrying around to impress your friends.
One of the best ways to get children to read is with high interest books. If you think Tom Sawyer and Treasure Island is of any interest to kids today you are a dumb-ass. (Of course we know you are a dumb-ass by the way you look down your nose at Harry Potter.)? Get a clue people, there is nothing wrong with children (or adults) reading for fun.
Harry Potter is what it is. I don't really feel like reading it, but my siblings/friends love it and it has that kind of draw to get kids away from the tube. I just wish that there were a dozen more kids books that had that kind of celebrity status appeal where it's a social norm in some groups to have read them.
Only in the ass-backwards literary criticizm world can you criticize something for being too enjoyable to read. Fuck that, and fuck the whole "great works" viewpoint on literature, defining a set list of great books that everyone should read. Read Steinbeck (and ) but read it cause you like it, not because some asswipe told you it was great. /rant
harry potter dies and hermione becomes the next "harry" of the wizarding world. best book out of the 7 for me. all hormones and sex! at least harry got to beat it out a few times with chinese cho before being offed by snape.
Damn if that's true Jinx you're a cold motherfucker! haha
That reminds me of the time my cousin called me after the new Star Wars came out saying "yeah, Qui Gon Jin dies and Darth Maul gets chopped in half. It was cool. Ok, talk to you later."
Comments
Yeah, this book demostrated rather persuasively that some people really shouldn't be reading. I had adults parroting the conspiracy theory back to me as gospel truth. They really believed it. If you're that incapable of separating fiction from reality, perhaps novels aren't for you.
As for the Potter books, if the choice is between children reading Harry Potter or not reading at all (which I have to imagine is the case for plenty of children), then it's a positive thing. They probably won't turn around and pick up the collected works of Shakespeare, but if it establishes a reading habit at a young age, that opens the door for weightier fare later on.
That's how it went for me. Reading Harry Potter turned me on to reading in general, which is what I've done with most of my time since then. That's proof enough for me that they're a gateway into heavier shit.
Im with faux here. That adults will wait in a line of 5000 people for a childrens book while works of Nabokov, Miller, or Hesse sit collecting dust seems terrible to me. If people want to read new books, thats great. Murakami, Sedaris, etc etc are people writing great books within the last couple of years. Why ignore these in favor of a 12 year old boy with a magic wand?
That be the truth man. I think the problem these adults have is that they want the satisfaction of knowing that they have read an actual novel when it wasn't mandatory in high school, and they see this as the easy way of getting it, because the story/language is made for children. Unlike the "classics", the subject matter is portrayed as something easy to understand and relate to.
The thing with that is, if one reads someone like Vonnegut or Hornby or Kesey, or even just flip the pages to get a feel for it, they'll find that the language isn't complicated at all, and the story is way more fulfilling.
Says our resident comic book man of steel.
But, I digress.
I read something this week that indicated that Harry Potter wasn't necessarily a gateway series for a lot of kids; some will finish it and go straight back to the PS2, and that will be that.
At the same time, books require a certain imagination that is not demanded from any other sort of art. And to see thousands of kids dressing in costume, and shaking with excitement to suspend disbelief, and give themselves and their imagination over to reading is a GREAT thing.
The adults who read? Some I know are very literary folk; one is racing to finish Gravity's Rainbow so he can move onto this. Some are DaVinci Code believing folls. Whatever. Given the sad state of literacy in this country at this point, I'm not going to get elitist about it.
Digression: Telling people that you are a serious reader gets a lot of responses similar to saying you collect records. Just replace, 'i've got some old Boston and REO Speedwagon records that are just great,' with 'yeah, did you read those Dan Brown books? I think those are great.'
This is how I feel, too. In fact, I was in Harvard Square last
night too, taking my Dad out to celebrate his retirement,
and we were amazed at the level of madness - thousands and
thousands of Potter freaks, hundreds of extra cops on detail,
it was like New Years Eve or something ... we were kind of
griping about it as we walked along, but at some point we agreed
that if there can be this level of excitement in 2007 over a book,
if kids are really this amped because they want to READ, how can
that be seen as a bad thing? I gotta disagree with those who think
it's not about the reading, and that it won't help encourage more
reading among young (and older) people. Seems to me reading is the
type of thing that once you find yourself enjoying it, you seek out
more opportunities to feel that way. I imagine Harry Potter, regardless
of your feelings towards the content, has made readers out of
hundreds of thousands of people who weren't before, and I'll always
consider that a good thing.
Then this doesn't apply to your girlfriend.
I don't beleive that reading Harry Potter doing anybody any harm. But thinking it the end-all-be-all of literature, which some people seem to think, strikes me as sad. I also think it is fine to eat a hamburger now and again. But to eat only that is obviously not going to do anybody any favors.
It is obviously a fun diversion for people, which is fine. All the same, I dont think the attention is recieves is even remotely warranted.
And yeah, I think people who never leave their town, read only airort fare, eat junk food seven days a week, and consider Match Box 40 the gold standard of music are missing out on huge joys in life.
The attention is about the whole phenomenon of Harry Potter.
Has anyone read a review that credits the literary style of the author?
Just wondering?
I read the first three, and found them very fomulaic and dull. i was not compelled to continue the series.
I seem to be in the minority.
You're swinging at a straw man. No need to get asshurt.
I'm a reading teacher to students with disabilities and I watched a teenager with emotional disturbance come into my room at lunch and ask if he could read Harry Potter instead of get in trouble with his thuggish friends on the quad, so yeah, I think Harry is good shit.
we're trying to be as negative as possible in this thread anna, please move along.
:eyeroll:
I'm not the one to buy into hype or enjoy that cheesy sword and sorcery stuff either, but just because not everyone is into the highbrow, racial sensitivo stuff like you doesn't make them dumb. Not every book has to be Michael Eric Dyson.
Using long words just for the sake of using long words is fun.
One of the best ways to get children to read is with high interest books. If you think Tom Sawyer and Treasure Island is of any interest to kids today you are a dumb-ass. (Of course we know you are a dumb-ass by the way you look down your nose at Harry Potter.)
Good things about the series:
1) The characters are great. Some are shallow and are only there for plot purposes, but Harry and the other main characters are well developed.
2) The relationships are real. She does a great job of expressing the way boys and girls and boys and boys interact. She also does a good job of expressing Harry's abandonment issues and other psychological aspects of the characters.
3) They are fun. Do you read Hillerman? Grafton? Comic Books? Graphic Novels? Magazines? Internet boards? Get a clue people, there is nothing wrong with children (or adults) reading for fun.
4) The stories are creative, imaginative and compelling.
Sure there are problems, on a literary level, with her writing. Still she is head and shoulders above Dan Brown (of course so is your dog). I think she is much better than that Tolkien guy too.
All you hatters don't need to panic. Children's literature is much better today than when we were kids. Christopher Paul Curtis is one of the best writers America has ever produced (Watsons Go To Birmingham, Bud Not Buddy, Bucking The Sarge). Kate Di Camilo, Dan Gutman, Sandra Creech are writing much better books for children than all the pompous high literature you guys are carrying around to impress your friends.
I'm not criticizing you all, just pointing out.
Harry Potter is what it is. I don't really feel like reading it, but my siblings/friends love it and it has that kind of draw to get kids away from the tube. I just wish that there were a dozen more kids books that had that kind of celebrity status appeal where it's a social norm in some groups to have read them.
Only in the ass-backwards literary criticizm world can you criticize something for being too enjoyable to read. Fuck that, and fuck the whole "great works" viewpoint on literature, defining a set list of great books that everyone should read. Read Steinbeck (and
is this highest state of understanding achivied by reading Harry Potter?
Damn if that's true Jinx you're a cold motherfucker! haha
That reminds me of the time my cousin called me after the new Star Wars came out saying "yeah, Qui Gon Jin dies and Darth Maul gets chopped in half. It was cool. Ok, talk to you later."
Boooo!
I disagree. Children's literature has been pretty great since the 1880's.