HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
But yeah no TuPac is kinda surprising then again there are other factors at hand....
Like the "Tupac is overrated" factor?
Pac is possible the only rap artist that talking greasy about can get seriously HURT! Many Black Rap fans even just the casual ones light see Pac in a light that others rap fans (White and "True Head" brigade) don't. I almost lost friendship taking about Pac. He represents the bizarre contradiction of being both African AND American and Male post Civil Rights. He's Bigger than Hip Hop.
I wasnt gonna say it.
Regardless,is image doesnt translate into listening IMO. And you cant use Soulstrut as a gauge for the average Hip Hop listener/consumer.
For the record. His MCing isnt that great IMO. But if you wanna go there please create another thread.
Where is Snoop up in herr for that matter in terms of popularity?
No big deal to me.
I think it this is the typical response I expected. But Pac's delivery what more about Cartharsis and presense than gymnastics. That's where he out weights his competition. He's not going to spit a dictionary at you in a monotone voice an expect you to be amazed like a Rakim?? Sidenote:(Then scratch his head at his lack popularity like the average NY.)
If he were alive you would've discarded him along time ago.
That's bullshit. Scarface doesn't even rap anymore and he has yet to be "discarded".
Your see a parallel in Scarface's career and Tupac's?
Pac's fan demographic is much more diverse than most rap artists. Doesn't that say something about his art, more than it does his audience?
NO.
There's a gang of folks who ride for many big artists who I wouldnt even consider talkin to about Hip Hop.
Stylistically, there's dudes much better, but his underlying messages are so raw in emotion that there's no denying that when a 2pac song goes on, everyone knows it and it's gameover.
Wordplay and style is cool and all, but most of the shit that rappers say doesn't resonate to the effect that a 2pac song does.
At last someone is peaking without foaming at the mouf.
I think it depends on what he/she wants. And there are gang of cats who can do alot. and that still doesnt mean that it gets those most spins.
But yeah no TuPac is kinda surprising then again there are other factors at hand....
Like the "Tupac is overrated" factor?
Pac is possible the only rap artist that talking greasy about can get seriously HURT! Many Black Rap fans even just the casual ones light see Pac in a light that others rap fans (White and "True Head" brigade) don't. I almost lost friendship taking about Pac. He represents the bizarre contradiction of being both African AND American and Male post Civil Rights. He's Bigger than Hip Hop.
I wasnt gonna say it.
Regardless,is image doesnt translate into listening IMO. And you cant use Soulstrut as a gauge for the average Hip Hop listener/consumer.
For the record. His MCing isnt that great IMO. But if you wanna go there please create another thread.
Where is Snoop up in herr for that matter in terms of popularity?
No big deal to me.
I think it this is the typical response I expected. But Pac's delivery what more about Cartharsis and presense than gymnastics. That's where he out weights his competition. He's not going to spit a dictionary at you in a monotone voice an expect you to be amazed like a Rakim?? Sidenote:(Then scratch his head at his lack popularity like the average NY.)
If he were alive you would've discarded him along time ago.
That's bullshit. Scarface doesn't even rap anymore and he has yet to be "discarded".
Your see a parallel in Scarface's career and Tupac's?
Brad got the same media attention and movies?
I thought we were talking about rapping.
He represents the bizarre contradiction of being both African AND American and Male post Civil Rights. He's Bigger than Hip Hop.
I guess so?
And 14 year old are down loading Scarface or Tupac?
I don't understand the people who lean more towards the stylistic element of art more than other factors. To me, it seems like a one-dimensional way to enjoy art. But what the fuck do I know about art.
Pac's shit is timeless and crosses boundaries. Enough said already.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
But yeah no TuPac is kinda surprising then again there are other factors at hand....
Like the "Tupac is overrated" factor?
Pac is possible the only rap artist that talking greasy about can get seriously HURT! Many Black Rap fans even just the casual ones light see Pac in a light that others rap fans (White and "True Head" brigade) don't. I almost lost friendship taking about Pac. He represents the bizarre contradiction of being both African AND American and Male post Civil Rights. He's Bigger than Hip Hop.
I wasnt gonna say it.
Regardless,is image doesnt translate into listening IMO. And you cant use Soulstrut as a gauge for the average Hip Hop listener/consumer.
For the record. His MCing isnt that great IMO. But if you wanna go there please create another thread.
Where is Snoop up in herr for that matter in terms of popularity?
No big deal to me.
I think it this is the typical response I expected. But Pac's delivery what more about Cartharsis and presense than gymnastics. That's where he out weights his competition. He's not going to spit a dictionary at you in a monotone voice an expect you to be amazed like a Rakim?? Sidenote:(Then scratch his head at his lack popularity like the average NY.)
If he were alive you would've discarded him along time ago.
That's bullshit. Scarface doesn't even rap anymore and he has yet to be "discarded".
Your see a parallel in Scarface's career and Tupac's?
Brad got the same media attention and movies?
I thought we were talking about rapping.
He represents the bizarre contradiction of being both African AND American and Male post Civil Rights. He's Bigger than Hip Hop.
I guess so?
And 14 year old are down loading Scarface or Tupac?
2Pac and Z-Ro are like Jesus and Paul around these parts.
I don't understand the people who lean more towards the stylistic element of art more than other factors. To me, it seems like a one-dimensional way to enjoy art. But what the fuck do I know about art.
I dont understand the people who more towards the emotional element of art, more than other factors.
dammit whats up w/ this board, half the time i try to post something it says its not possible
anyway...
Pac hits lots of people because he very much defined his era/style by being larger than it, encompassing lots of diff things - sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks, this diverse approach that let him be all things ... say what you will but he was never one dimensional.
It makes sense that so many ppl on a site that probably pride themselves in 'seeing thru bullshit' are not buying what pac was selling but to me it seems pretty shortsighted, esp. since he really created the context in which 99% of rap works these days. He set the blueprint, more than anyone else. Certainly more than Nas or Jay-Z.
He's never been in my top 5 alive or whatever but knowing and appreciating his music seems almost like a prerequisite to understand where most rap is coming from if yr not from NY. I'd argue NY anti-Pac parochialism has a lot to do w/ why the city's rap scene becomes increasingly seen as irrelevent, with its rappers all trying to play Nas; Nas' style is a product of a certain time but since Pac was here he basically redefined the rapper paradigm
i have trouble listening to him as much as a lot of people; i "buy" it, but its pretty heavy shit to bump on a daily basis. For all you boredoms/hipsteur thugs out there, much of his output would be like listening to Joy Division on yr way to the club. Dark stuff. I can't take too much of it. "Heartz of Men" is still one of the best rap songs ever made.
This is simply the albums I listened to the most. I bumped the hell out of NWA, Eazy-E,Geto Boys, UKG, Spice 1, Above the Law, Ice Cube, etc etc in late elementary school and Jr. High. I just listened to these albums more than those when I was in high school, but I also listened to Biggie, Pac, Dre, Jay-Z etc.
I bumped the hell out of these in high school:
Organized Konfusion - Stress Souls Of Mischief - 93 til' Infinity Outkast - Southernplayalistic Nas - Illmatic De La - Buhloone Mindstate Tribe - Midnight Marauders The Roots - Do You Want More?!!!??! Pharcyde - Bizzarre Ride II
I notice the lack of "gangster Rap" in a lot of these list. Did you guy just go out of you way to ignore the biggest names of the 90's?? I haven't 2Pac's "All Eyez on me" or "The world against me" on much of any one's list here and that suprises me.
Pac hits lots of people because he very much defined his era/style by being larger than it, encompassing lots of diff things - sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks, this diverse approach that let him be all things ... say what you will but he was never one dimensional.
It makes sense that so many ppl on a site that probably pride themselves in 'seeing thru bullshit' are not buying what pac was selling but to me it seems pretty shortsighted, esp. since he really created the context in which 99% of rap works these days. He set the blueprint, more than anyone else. Certainly more than Nas or Jay-Z.
Are you sayin' that he set the blueprint by making sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks?
How do you explain Big Daddy Kane and most of the other quality hip hop groups from the golden era that predated him? they made totally cohesive albums that touched on most subjects under the sun even throwing in a hip house track for good measure.
Dude was strictly image over substance imo. He wasn't the first or the best rapper to ever write a song with feeling.
Pac hits lots of people because he very much defined his era/style by being larger than it, encompassing lots of diff things - sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks, this diverse approach that let him be all things ... say what you will but he was never one dimensional.
It makes sense that so many ppl on a site that probably pride themselves in 'seeing thru bullshit' are not buying what pac was selling but to me it seems pretty shortsighted, esp. since he really created the context in which 99% of rap works these days. He set the blueprint, more than anyone else. Certainly more than Nas or Jay-Z.
Are you sayin' that he set the blueprint by making sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks?
How do you explain Big Daddy Kane and most of the other quality hip hop groups from the golden era that predated him? they made totally cohesive albums that touched on most subjects under the sun even throwing in a hip house track for good measure.
Dude was strictly image over substance imo. He wasn't the first or the best rapper to ever write a song with feeling.
I never said he was the first; he was just really good at it. Or I guess 'good' implies some objectivity; he was really EFFECTIVE at it.
And no one really combined these in the same way. Thug/gangsta blueprint goes multidimensional, and effectively translates in a way that resonates.
Dude was strictly image over substance imo.
what you mean is that he doesn't convince you, right? thats what i'm talking about ... folks are afraid they're being 'tricked' into liking something, that the artifice isn't convincing enough.
i dunno, I think Pac's had his clumsy moments, esp. early in his career he could get heavy-handed ... then 'me against the world' is really really dark but has left behind the brenda-has-a-baby preachiness, and then of course there's all eyez where he basically created that persona that resonated so effectively.
I think one dude you could argue did a good job w/ this previously was Scarface; he had that emotional heft and a multi-dimensional outlook + gangsta mentality. But he came across like a veteran pretty quickly, didn't have the stylistic breadth (altho he did have breadth in terms of subject matter/narratives) and energy and output that Pac did ... i'm not sure i can ruminate on this really, i'd be interested to know what harvey thinks, about why Pac took off while Scarface remained an underground hero.
Pac hits lots of people because he very much defined his era/style by being larger than it, encompassing lots of diff things - sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks, this diverse approach that let him be all things ... say what you will but he was never one dimensional.
It makes sense that so many ppl on a site that probably pride themselves in 'seeing thru bullshit' are not buying what pac was selling but to me it seems pretty shortsighted, esp. since he really created the context in which 99% of rap works these days. He set the blueprint, more than anyone else. Certainly more than Nas or Jay-Z.
Are you sayin' that he set the blueprint by making sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks?
How do you explain Big Daddy Kane and most of the other quality hip hop groups from the golden era that predated him? they made totally cohesive albums that touched on most subjects under the sun even throwing in a hip house track for good measure.
Dude was strictly image over substance imo. He wasn't the first or the best rapper to ever write a song with feeling.
2pac is a gangsta. and i'm a gangsta. the fuck outta here with that bullshit.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
i'd be interested to know what harvey thinks, about why Pac took off while Scarface remained an underground hero.
There are plenty of more obvious reasons, but I'm going to go with the following. 2Pac was a cosmopolitan dude...lived in NYC, DC, the Bay, went to art school, Black Panther background, etc. Meanwhile Scarface was just a dude from the sticks. They both hit big across regions and could do many similar things. Face's Now I Feel Ya carries some serious weight in the same way that a Keep Your Head Up does. Anyway Face is too guarded a fellow to have ever been Hollywood in any way, whereas Pac could fit right into that roll. Strictly rap-wise though, Pac intended to be a messiah...it's written all over his songs. Face just wanted to get some shit off of his chest and then retreat back into the sticks.
Just because I dont place Tupac on my Private Mind Garden's All Star team doesnt mean I dont acknowledge his impact.
Dude pretty much single handedly brought Hip Hop expression to "the Personal" level. Yes their were cats who preceded him in the autobiographical realm but he made in a "style".Or at least polished it to a point where cats had a an artistic reference point to draw reference.And that is definitely a plus to the game.
On a Technical/Lyrical level I feel he had some roadblocks.
For all you boredoms/hipsteur thugs out there, much of his output would be like listening to Joy Division on yr way to the club. Dark stuff. I can't take too much of it.
Thanks for explaining that. Didn't you just start listening to rap music when you discovered it was fashionable on ILM? Some of us Boredoms fans have been loving rap for a while and not just as a cynical attempt to distinguish ourselves in an overcrowded music journalism market.
For all you boredoms/hipsteur thugs out there, much of his output would be like listening to Joy Division on yr way to the club. Dark stuff. I can't take too much of it.
Thanks for explaining that. Didn't you just start listening to rap music when you discovered it was fashionable on ILM? Some of us Boredoms fans have been loving rap for a while and not just as a cynical attempt to distinguish ourselves in an overcrowded music journalism market.
Will deej stand for such impugning of his credentials?
For all you boredoms/hipsteur thugs out there, much of his output would be like listening to Joy Division on yr way to the club. Dark stuff. I can't take too much of it.
Thanks for explaining that. Didn't you just start listening to rap music when you discovered it was fashionable on ILM? Some of us Boredoms fans have been loving rap for a while and not just as a cynical attempt to distinguish ourselves in an overcrowded music journalism market.
Will deej stand for such impugning of his credentials?
For all you boredoms/hipsteur thugs out there, much of his output would be like listening to Joy Division on yr way to the club. Dark stuff. I can't take too much of it.
Thanks for explaining that. Didn't you just start listening to rap music when you discovered it was fashionable on ILM? Some of us Boredoms fans have been loving rap for a while and not just as a cynical attempt to distinguish ourselves in an overcrowded music journalism market.
lol. the jdivision hipsteur diss was just a joke/baiting. i wasn't pretending that i was actually breaking it down for indie kids or something. i've been listening to hip-hop since kris kross homie, dont you read soulstrut???
I think a lot of people forget that there was a war going on, and that's why a lot of NY folk didn't listen to pac or west coast music in general in the early 90s. I certainly didn't. I liked the first album, and of course listened to shit like keep your head up and I get around, the single shit that you'd see on BET. I have tons of respect for him as a person. He was incredibly charismatic and visionary. There's no doubt about it. It goes beyond his MCing. It has to deal with his pose, with his story (history), with his act, with the way he lived, shooting cops, getting shot. There's an aura around him. You couldn't help but be captivated by him. As an MC, though, I'll ride with Biggie over him any and every day.
Comments
I thought we were talking about rapping.
At last someone is peaking without foaming at the mouf.
I think it depends on what he/she wants. And there are gang of cats who can do alot. and that still doesnt mean that it gets those most spins.
Low End Theory is a MC masterpiece?
I guess so?
And 14 year old are down loading Scarface or Tupac?
I don't understand the people who lean more towards the stylistic element of art more than other factors. To me, it seems like a one-dimensional way to enjoy art. But what the fuck do I know about art.
Pac's shit is timeless and crosses boundaries. Enough said already.
2Pac and Z-Ro are like Jesus and Paul around these parts.
U like Tupac more than I do. Simple
U will not convince me to join that church.
I dont understand the people who more towards the emotional element of art, more than other factors.
anyway...
Pac hits lots of people because he very much defined his era/style by being larger than it, encompassing lots of diff things - sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks, this diverse approach that let him be all things ... say what you will but he was never one dimensional.
It makes sense that so many ppl on a site that probably pride themselves in 'seeing thru bullshit' are not buying what pac was selling but to me it seems pretty shortsighted, esp. since he really created the context in which 99% of rap works these days. He set the blueprint, more than anyone else. Certainly more than Nas or Jay-Z.
He's never been in my top 5 alive or whatever but knowing and appreciating his music seems almost like a prerequisite to understand where most rap is coming from if yr not from NY. I'd argue NY anti-Pac parochialism has a lot to do w/ why the city's rap scene becomes increasingly seen as irrelevent, with its rappers all trying to play Nas; Nas' style is a product of a certain time but since Pac was here he basically redefined the rapper paradigm
i have trouble listening to him as much as a lot of people; i "buy" it, but its pretty heavy shit to bump on a daily basis. For all you boredoms/hipsteur thugs out there, much of his output would be like listening to Joy Division on yr way to the club. Dark stuff. I can't take too much of it. "Heartz of Men" is still one of the best rap songs ever made.
I float like gravity.
Are you sayin' that he set the blueprint by making sensitivethugpoetstreetparty'fortheladies'politicalmindless tracks?
How do you explain Big Daddy Kane and most of the other quality hip hop groups
from the golden era that predated him? they made totally cohesive albums that touched on most subjects under the sun even throwing in a hip house track for good measure.
Dude was strictly image over substance imo.
He wasn't the first or the best rapper to ever write a song with feeling.
I never said he was the first; he was just really good at it. Or I guess 'good' implies some objectivity; he was really EFFECTIVE at it.
And no one really combined these in the same way. Thug/gangsta blueprint goes multidimensional, and effectively translates in a way that resonates.
what you mean is that he doesn't convince you, right?
thats what i'm talking about ... folks are afraid they're being 'tricked' into liking something, that the artifice isn't convincing enough.
i dunno, I think Pac's had his clumsy moments, esp. early in his career he could get heavy-handed ... then 'me against the world' is really really dark but has left behind the brenda-has-a-baby preachiness, and then of course there's all eyez where he basically created that persona that resonated so effectively.
I think one dude you could argue did a good job w/ this previously was Scarface; he had that emotional heft and a multi-dimensional outlook + gangsta mentality. But he came across like a veteran pretty quickly, didn't have the stylistic breadth (altho he did have breadth in terms of subject matter/narratives) and energy and output that Pac did ... i'm not sure i can ruminate on this really, i'd be interested to know what harvey thinks, about why Pac took off while Scarface remained an underground hero.
2pac is a gangsta. and i'm a gangsta. the fuck outta here with that bullshit.
There are plenty of more obvious reasons, but I'm going to go with the following. 2Pac was a cosmopolitan dude...lived in NYC, DC, the Bay, went to art school, Black Panther background, etc. Meanwhile Scarface was just a dude from the sticks. They both hit big across regions and could do many similar things. Face's Now I Feel Ya carries some serious weight in the same way that a Keep Your Head Up does. Anyway Face is too guarded a fellow to have ever been Hollywood in any way, whereas Pac could fit right into that roll. Strictly rap-wise though, Pac intended to be a messiah...it's written all over his songs. Face just wanted to get some shit off of his chest and then retreat back into the sticks.
Dude pretty much single handedly brought Hip Hop expression to "the Personal" level. Yes their were cats who preceded him in the autobiographical realm but he made in a "style".Or at least polished it to a point where cats had a an artistic reference point to draw reference.And that is definitely a plus to the game.
On a Technical/Lyrical level I feel he had some roadblocks.
Mob Style
Thanks for explaining that. Didn't you just start listening to rap music when you discovered it was fashionable on ILM? Some of us Boredoms fans have been loving rap for a while and not just as a cynical attempt to distinguish ourselves in an overcrowded music journalism market.
Will deej stand for such impugning of his credentials?
Deej - Stand UP
i like that boredoms 'seadrum' song a lot
regrettably way too much.
wow... you are, uh... old school?
The way cats screw up history, Kriss Kross is "Old School" these days.......1992=OG..
i was in the single digits when 'jump' dropped