Palestinians want their own country not the destruction of another.
[sarcasm] Are you so wise to know what every Palestinian wants? I hate when ppeople off one race think they have the other all figured out.
Describe your Palestinian experience...
just good natured humor, right?
[/sarcasm]
your ass is showing some deep bruising there dude.
By the way I consider myself semetic. My grandfather was a turkish arab and the other 3/4s of my grandparents are all semetic eastern europeans. I've been on the Gaza Israeli border. I've spoken with Palestinians in their homeland and here in Los Angeles.
I would never consider myself wise enough to speak for Palestinian people as individuals. But as for the wants of Hamas, the PLO and other political Palestinian those have all been stated.
if you think hamas will become a care bear your in a different reality, they won if anything the will get worse because they feel they have a mandate
I'm not arguing with that. I don't think they'll have a chance to go from "terror" organization to "political" organization unless they renounce violence unequivocally because they'll lose aid. Syria's gonna try and get involved, and hamas will suffer the same credibility issues Arafat did. Oh, and they'd have to recognize israel.
you have it wrong. Palestinians want their own country not the destruction of another.
This is very true.
A similar misconception is the we (Arabs) hate all Jews. And this is simply not the case. It is Israel's zionist governement that Arabs are weary of not the Jewish faith and its followers. Arabs (both Muslim and Christian) have lived along side Sephardic Jews for centuries without incidence and have historically shared a mutual respect for one another. Just saying...
A government's actions seldom (if ever) reflect its citizens wishes. Lumping the two together is never a good look.
not all arabs hate jews, duh, but there is a large contingent that do and think hitler had it right and hatred of jews is taught at many of the schools in the arab world especially in palestine and this hatred is not just limited to sharon or the israeli govenrnment, there was a guy running in these election who had the nickname hitler
saying that not all southern people are racist does not deal with a problem, black people worked along side white people peacefully for many years as well, so does that mean there was no problem
don't act like there is not a problem when there clearly is
I was surprised that there are any people who consider themselves Palestinians who aren't for the destruction of Israel. Isn't the whole premise of Palestine based on not acknowledging a Jewish Israeli State?
Steve,
you have it wrong. Palestinians want their own country not the destruction of another.
be careful in making statements like that. They are filled with hate and ignorance. One of my closer friends is a palestinian/ Jordanian I hang out with him and his mother and wife quite a bit and we talk middle east politics all the time. At no point has he , his family, or any of his other palestianian friends told me that the state of Israel needs to be destroyed.
I wasn't aware of people like that, that gives at least a little hope for peace. I guess there weren't enough of them to win the election, though.
from cnn.com:
Furious protesters demand Palestinian leader quit Three also wounded in Gaza gunbattle
Friday, January 27, 2006; Posted: 1:56 p.m. EST (18:56 GMT)
Fatah supporters demonstrate Friday in Gaza City, angered over their party's loss to the militant Hamas.
Abbas, the Palestinian Authority president, was in the West Bank, where he called on Hamas to form a new government after its election landslide snatched power this week from Fatah's ruling old guard.
Waving yellow Fatah flags in the flickering light of flaming bonfires, protesters swarmed around Abbas' home in Gaza City, where they shot in the air and accused him of being a "collaborator" with Israel.[/b]
So, Hamas wants the destruction of Israel, and Fatah wants their leader to resign for "collaborating" with Israel. Which palestinians are in favor of Israel again?
This is all very confusing, and I'll definitely admit I'm not educated on the subject, just trying to learn. No offense to any palestinians out there.
you have it wrong. Palestinians want their own country not the destruction of another.
This is very true.
A similar misconception is the we (Arabs) hate all Jews. And this is simply not the case. It is Israel's zionist governement that Arabs are weary of not the Jewish faith and its followers. Arabs (both Muslim and Christian) have lived along side Sephardic Jews for centuries without incidence and have historically shared a mutual respect for one another. Just saying...
A government's actions seldom (if ever) reflect its citizens wishes. Lumping the two together is never a good look.
Lynn, this is a bit disingenuous. While Sephardic Jews lived in Muslim and Arab countries for centuries, they did so largely as second class citizens. As soon as the Jews of the world stood up and demanded self-determination/autonomy, i.e. established the State of Israel, suddenly y'all have a problem.
It seems that as long as we didn't raise our voices, you were cool with having us around. The black-white analogy in the American South is apt. Well sorry, that arrangement wasn't really working out for us.
"Israel's zionist government," as you derisively refer to it, represents the will of millions of Jews. You are right to point out that "A government's actions seldom (if ever) reflect its citizens wishes" (I live in the US and do not feel that it's gov't really represents me right now). However, to try to separate out "Jews" and "Israel" is sort of a cop out. While I obviously take issue with many of the Israeli gov't's actions over the years, I make no apology whatsoever for Israel's existence. Indeed, I'm proud of it.
Does anyone else marvel the "shoot into the air" approach to celebration? It seems to me like there are better ways to express jubilation. Then again, I've never had the opportunity to shoot a gun into the air so I'm speaking ignorence.
What's crazy is, every bullet shot into the air gotta come down somewhere. I'm just surprised that lots of people aren't killed by falling bullets.
Maybe they do get killed and people just keep it hush hush. It may well be that the fun of shooting guns into the air outweighs the cost of an odd dead person.
When the bullets kill someone 2 miles away they just blame it on the Jews.
There is a lot more space than people. Lessens the chance of a stray bullet hitting a person.
From a physics standpoint does the bullet come down with the same force as when it goes up?
Considering you could kill someone by dropping a penny off the top of the empire state building, a bullet would come down with enough force to be lethal.
There is a lot more space than people. Lessens the chance of a stray bullet hitting a person.
From a physics standpoint does the bullet come down with the same force as when it goes up?
i believe it will have lost all its potential energy when it reaches the height of its parabola, so it should return to earth no faster than the force of gravity and air friction allow it.
you'd be surprised at how many people believe the opposite.
I was taught in my K-6th grade Jewish day school never to trust Arabs and I've been a member of Hillel at 2 different Universities in 2 different states both of which had members with some very low opinions of Palestinians.
you'd be surprised at how many people believe the opposite.
I was taught in my K-6th grade Jewish day school never to trust Arabs and I've been a member of Hillel at 2 different Universities in 2 different states both of which had members with some very low opinions of Palestinians.
Contrast: I worked for a Hillel that annually hosted a Palestinian dance troupe, complete with Palestinian flag hanging and anti-Israel interpretive dance numbers. In addition, we hosted a weekly Palestinian-Jewish dialogue group (usually about 10 Jews to 1 Arab/Muslim/Palestinian) and routinely sponsored joint Palestinian-Israeli panel discussions on Israel's Independence Day.
you'd be surprised at how many people believe the opposite.
I was taught in my K-6th grade Jewish day school never to trust Arabs and I've been a member of Hillel at 2 different Universities in 2 different states both of which had members with some very low opinions of Palestinians.
Contrast: I worked for a Hillel that annually hosted a Palestinian dance troupe, complete with Palestinian flag hanging and anti-Israel interpretive dance numbers. In addition, we hosted a weekly Palestinian-Jewish dialogue group (usually about 10 Jews to 1 Arab/Muslim/Palestinian) and routinely sponsored joint Palestinian-Israeli panel discussions on Israel's Independence Day.
in no way am I saying Hillel is an anti-Palestinian organization. Just speaking on my own "local Jewish experiences"
you have it wrong. Palestinians want their own country not the destruction of another.
This is very true.
A similar misconception is the we (Arabs) hate all Jews. And this is simply not the case. It is Israel's zionist governement that Arabs are weary of not the Jewish faith and its followers. Arabs (both Muslim and Christian) have lived along side Sephardic Jews for centuries without incidence and have historically shared a mutual respect for one another. Just saying...
A government's actions seldom (if ever) reflect its citizens wishes. Lumping the two together is never a good look.
not all arabs hate jews, duh, but there is a large contingent that do and think hitler had it right and hatred of jews is taught at many of the schools in the arab world especially in palestine and this hatred is not just limited to sharon or the israeli govenrnment, there was a guy running in these election who had the nickname hitler
saying that not all southern people are racist does not deal with a problem, black people worked along side white people peacefully for many years as well, so does that mean there was no problem
don't act like there is not a problem when there clearly is
"there is a large contingent that do and think hitler had it right"
how large? who are these people? when did they say this? where did you get this information?
"hatred of jews is taught at many of the schools in the arab world"
"I was taught in my K-6th grade Jewish day school never to trust Arabs and I've been a member of Hillel at 2 different Universities in 2 different states both of which had members with some very low opinions of Palestinians."
And comparing the Jewish/Israeli situation with that of the african americans in the south of the us, is so fundamentally flawed its not even worth saying its wrong.
There is a lot more space than people. Lessens the chance of a stray bullet hitting a person.
From a physics standpoint does the bullet come down with the same force as when it goes up?
i believe it will have lost all its potential energy when it reaches the height of its parabola, so it should return to earth no faster than the force of gravity and air friction allow it.
Every year here in Texas we have a couple of deaths from idiots shooting guns in the air at Midnight New Years Eve and the bullet coming down and striking someone....it's even happened to someone in a house where the bullet came through a roof!!
not all arabs hate jews, duh, but there is a large contingent that do and think hitler had it right and hatred of jews is taught at many of the schools in the arab world especially in palestine and this hatred is not just limited to sharon or the israeli govenrnment, there was a guy running in these election who had the nickname hitler
saying that not all southern people are racist does not deal with a problem, black people worked along side white people peacefully for many years as well, so does that mean there was no problem
don't act like there is not a problem when there clearly is
I've never been in denial with aknowledging that there is a problem here. And I'm certainly not the type to go hug a tree and hope that we can all hold hands at the end of the day.
There is clearly a problem, and it's a big fucking astronomical one at that. But it is not merely that Arabs hate Jews. In fact, I would say that Israel's religious denomination is secondary, if not coincidental to the fact that Palestinians want what's theirs. That's what it comes down to. Israelis could be green and pray to the sun, it doesn't change the fact that Palestinians are forced to go thru massive check-points in their own neighborhood. It doesn't change the fact that European settlers have REPEATEDLY exiled Palestinian families from their own homes.
It's the actions of two governments and religious extremists on both sides that are at the root of this problem, not their religion. And to imply such is ignorant, pressumptous and disrepectful to Palestinians and Isrealis who share a common goal in ending the killings of innocent bystanders and creating a Palestinian state.
And do you not think that there are just as many Jews that hate Arabs as there are Arabs that hate Jews? It takes two to fight a war, homie.
How about these suggestions for avoiding a nuclear war:-
a) Understand the reasons why a militant organisation got the majority of the seats in a national election. The Palestinians are as rational a people as you and I would be if we lived under those circumstances, so the majority vote that Hamas got shouldn't be too much of a revelation considering the prelude.
b) There ain't no nuclear war if there ain't no nuclear weapons. It's about time ALL nuclear weapon got decommissioned. At least then the world powers trying to stop or disuade Iran, Pakistan etc.. from developing nuclear weapons would seem a little less hypocritical.
Take it away Sabaababdbabdbbabbda...
PS. By the way... I'm an arab and from the point of view of the arabs (and muslims) I know, it's not jews and judaism that is the problem, but the Zionist policies of Israel as a state.
"hatred of jews is taught at many of the schools in the arab world"
"I was taught in my K-6th grade Jewish day school never to trust Arabs and I've been a member of Hillel at 2 different Universities in 2 different states both of which had members with some very low opinions of Palestinians."
And comparing the Jewish/Israeli situation with that of the african americans in the south of the us, is so fundamentally flawed its not even worth saying its wrong.
I think your crossing opinions and words from several people here. I am responsible for the quote about jewish day school and Hillel and I wasn't saying that as some tit-for-tat. I brought it up cause Otis Funkmeyer made a comment about thiking all Palestinians hate Jews. I was just trying to point out that he is not some lone nut in thinking this. Unfortunately there is not much communication about "the other side" in school or youth organizatins (At least not the ones I've come across). Its really sad.
PS. By the way... I'm an arab and from the point of view of the arabs (and muslims) I know, it's not jews and judaism that is problem, but the Zionist policies of Israel as a state.
If it's Israel's policies that are the problem, why are there Muslim/Arab related conflicts also going on right now in Sudan, Nigeria, Algeria, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Kosovo(Albanian KLA), "India/Pakistan(Kashmir)" and Iran???
b) There ain't no nuclear war if there ain't no nuclear weapons. It's about time ALL nuclear weapon got decommissioned. At least then the world powers trying to stop or disuade Iran, Pakistan etc.. from developing nuclear weapons would seem a little less hypocritical.
Mordecai Vanunu... I don't really wanna get too caught up on this topic, but you can see what happens to individual(s) who publicize a nuclear operation that is not publicly acknowledged... Then, the query begs as to whether or self-anointed democratic states could also practice surreptitious tactics as to covert nuclear development despite the superficial rhetoric about decommissioning/disarming...
I've never been in denial with aknowledging that there is a problem here. And I'm certainly not the type to go hug a tree and hope that we can all hold hands at the end of the day.
thats good
There is clearly a problem, and it's a big fucking astronomical one at that. But it is not merely that Arabs hate Jews. In fact, I would say that Israel's religious denomination is secondary, if not coincidental to the fact that Palestinians want what's theirs. That's what it comes down to. Israelis could be green and pray to the sun, it doesn't change the fact that Palestinians are forced to go thru massive check-points in their own neighborhood. It doesn't change the fact that European settlers have REPEATEDLY exiled Palestinian families from their own homes.
never said israel is not guilty of doing some really disgusting things to the palestinian folks, thats well documented and i will not argue with that, palestinians defently should have their own state, but the reason they have to go through check points is the method of trying to achieve this state, diplomacy is the way to go, blowing yourself up is not, i had hope that after the dueche arafat died that this might happen, hope is little right now
It's the actions of two governments and religious extremists on both sides that are at the root of this problem, not their religion. And to imply such is ignorant, pressumptous and disrepectful to Palestinians and Isrealis who share a common goal in ending the killings of innocent bystanders and creating a Palestinian state.
did i say anything about religion, no, like you said i believe that there is a systimatic hatred of jews in the arab world, kids are taught at a young age this shit and its very sad, there are people on both sides who want peace and cooperation, the voices on the palestinian side are muffled by gun shots and bombs
And do you not think that there are just as many Jews that hate Arabs as there are Arabs that hate Jews? It takes two to fight a war, homie.
no i dont think there is as many arab hating jews as jew hating muslims, israel at this point is fighting a defensive battle not one to gain more land (see gaza handover) and many jews in israel want to live with muslims, trade with them, and make a better land with them, and there are many muslims that want the same, but seeing this election i think their numbers are a tad low
yes their are religous extremists in israel, but when they do acts of terrorism they are punished by the government and not celebrated
Comments
Describe your Palestinian experience...
yes, yes it is
if you thimk hamas will become a care bear your in a different reality, they won if anything the will get worse because they feel they have a mandate
Wow... I didn't even catch that shit. Fuckin' unbelievable.
I'm not arguing with that. I don't think they'll have a chance to go from "terror" organization to "political" organization unless they renounce violence unequivocally because they'll lose aid. Syria's gonna try and get involved, and hamas will suffer the same credibility issues Arafat did. Oh, and they'd have to recognize israel.
The violence spirals on.
not all arabs hate jews, duh, but there is a large contingent that do and think hitler had it right and hatred of jews is taught at many of the schools in the arab world especially in palestine and this hatred is not just limited to sharon or the israeli govenrnment, there was a guy running in these election who had the nickname hitler
saying that not all southern people are racist does not deal with a problem, black people worked along side white people peacefully for many years as well, so does that mean there was no problem
don't act like there is not a problem when there clearly is
from cnn.com:
So, Hamas wants the destruction of Israel, and Fatah wants their leader to resign for "collaborating" with Israel. Which palestinians are in favor of Israel again?
This is all very confusing, and I'll definitely admit I'm not educated on the subject, just trying to learn. No offense to any palestinians out there.
Lynn, this is a bit disingenuous. While Sephardic Jews lived in Muslim and Arab countries for centuries, they did so largely as second class citizens. As soon as the Jews of the world stood up and demanded self-determination/autonomy, i.e. established the State of Israel, suddenly y'all have a problem.
It seems that as long as we didn't raise our voices, you were cool with having us around. The black-white analogy in the American South is apt. Well sorry, that arrangement wasn't really working out for us.
"Israel's zionist government," as you derisively refer to it, represents the will of millions of Jews. You are right to point out that "A government's actions seldom (if ever) reflect its citizens wishes" (I live in the US and do not feel that it's gov't really represents me right now). However, to try to separate out "Jews" and "Israel" is sort of a cop out. While I obviously take issue with many of the Israeli gov't's actions over the years, I make no apology whatsoever for Israel's existence. Indeed, I'm proud of it.
When the bullets kill someone 2 miles away they just blame it on the Jews.
From a physics standpoint does the bullet come down with the same force as when it goes up?
Considering you could kill someone by dropping a penny off the top of the empire state building, a bullet would come down with enough force to be lethal.
i believe it will have lost all its potential energy when it reaches the height of its parabola, so it should return to earth no faster than the force of gravity and air friction allow it.
you'd be surprised at how many people believe the opposite.
I was taught in my K-6th grade Jewish day school never to trust Arabs and I've been a member of Hillel at 2 different Universities in 2 different states both of which had members with some very low opinions of Palestinians.
Contrast: I worked for a Hillel that annually hosted a Palestinian dance troupe, complete with Palestinian flag hanging and anti-Israel interpretive dance numbers. In addition, we hosted a weekly Palestinian-Jewish dialogue group (usually about 10 Jews to 1 Arab/Muslim/Palestinian) and routinely sponsored joint Palestinian-Israeli panel discussions on Israel's Independence Day.
in no way am I saying Hillel is an anti-Palestinian organization. Just speaking on my own "local Jewish experiences"
!!!
i want video of this
"there is a large contingent that do and think hitler had it right"
how large? who are these people? when did they say this? where did you get this information?
"hatred of jews is taught at many of the schools in the arab world"
"I was taught in my K-6th grade Jewish day school never to trust Arabs and I've been a member of Hillel at 2 different Universities in 2 different states both of which had members with some very low opinions of Palestinians."
And comparing the Jewish/Israeli situation with that of the african americans in the south of the us, is so fundamentally flawed its not even worth saying its wrong.
Every year here in Texas we have a couple of deaths from idiots shooting guns in the air at Midnight New Years Eve and the bullet coming down and striking someone....it's even happened to someone in a house where the bullet came through a roof!!
I've never been in denial with aknowledging that there is a problem here. And I'm certainly not the type to go hug a tree and hope that we can all hold hands at the end of the day.
There is clearly a problem, and it's a big fucking astronomical one at that. But it is not merely that Arabs hate Jews. In fact, I would say that Israel's religious denomination is secondary, if not coincidental to the fact that Palestinians want what's theirs. That's what it comes down to. Israelis could be green and pray to the sun, it doesn't change the fact that Palestinians are forced to go thru massive check-points in their own neighborhood. It doesn't change the fact that European settlers have REPEATEDLY exiled Palestinian families from their own homes.
It's the actions of two governments and religious extremists on both sides that are at the root of this problem, not their religion. And to imply such is ignorant, pressumptous and disrepectful to Palestinians and Isrealis who share a common goal in ending the killings of innocent bystanders and creating a Palestinian state.
And do you not think that there are just as many Jews that hate Arabs as there are Arabs that hate Jews? It takes two to fight a war, homie.
a) Understand the reasons why a militant organisation got the majority of the seats in a national election. The Palestinians are as rational a people as you and I would be if we lived under those circumstances, so the majority vote that Hamas got shouldn't be too much of a revelation considering the prelude.
b) There ain't no nuclear war if there ain't no nuclear weapons. It's about time ALL nuclear weapon got decommissioned. At least then the world powers trying to stop or disuade Iran, Pakistan etc.. from developing nuclear weapons would seem a little less hypocritical.
Take it away Sabaababdbabdbbabbda...
PS. By the way... I'm an arab and from the point of view of the arabs (and muslims) I know, it's not jews and judaism that is the problem, but the Zionist policies of Israel as a state.
i thought about stating the obvious and thought, "no, it's too obvious".
but now that i see it, i feel better.
it had to be said.
This is a ridiculous proposition.
which part?
I think your crossing opinions and words from several people here. I am responsible for the quote about jewish day school and Hillel and I wasn't saying that as some tit-for-tat. I brought it up cause Otis Funkmeyer made a comment about thiking all Palestinians hate Jews. I was just trying to point out that he is not some lone nut in thinking this. Unfortunately there is not much communication about "the other side" in school or youth organizatins (At least not the ones I've come across). Its really sad.
If it's Israel's policies that are the problem, why are there Muslim/Arab related conflicts also going on right now in Sudan, Nigeria, Algeria, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Kosovo(Albanian KLA), "India/Pakistan(Kashmir)" and Iran???
Mordecai Vanunu... I don't really wanna get too caught up on this topic, but you can see what happens to individual(s) who publicize a nuclear operation that is not publicly acknowledged... Then, the query begs as to whether or self-anointed democratic states could also practice surreptitious tactics as to covert nuclear development despite the superficial rhetoric about decommissioning/disarming...
thats good
never said israel is not guilty of doing some really disgusting things to the palestinian folks, thats well documented and i will not argue with that, palestinians defently should have their own state, but the reason they have to go through check points is the method of trying to achieve this state, diplomacy is the way to go, blowing yourself up is not, i had hope that after the dueche arafat died that this might happen, hope is little right now
did i say anything about religion, no, like you said i believe that there is a systimatic hatred of jews in the arab world, kids are taught at a young age this shit and its very sad, there are people on both sides who want peace and cooperation, the voices on the palestinian side are muffled by gun shots and bombs
no i dont think there is as many arab hating jews as jew hating muslims, israel at this point is fighting a defensive battle not one to gain more land (see gaza handover) and many jews in israel want to live with muslims, trade with them, and make a better land with them, and there are many muslims that want the same, but seeing this election i think their numbers are a tad low
yes their are religous extremists in israel, but when they do acts of terrorism they are punished by the government and not celebrated