I'm sorry man but you're pushing this defensiveness a bit much here. I can't speak for everyone but in terms of what I was putting across:
The Roots, at one point, had a very fresh, very energizing live show but over the years, they've done very little to switch it up. I can't speak from experience, but I get the sense that somone like James Brown, in his prime, was killing shit without ever seeming like he was performing off a script and for all their "liveness" after you've seen what amounts to the umpteenth show-in-a-row, you realize that it's not as "spontaneous" as you thought it was.
Personally, I don't understand why people are hating on this, "play your own songs" shit - the Roots spend most of their show playing their own songs. They only do the "revue" bit for maybe half an hour and personally, I always thought that was fun. I mean, if you went to go see Jay-Z and he decided to break out into "Raw" is anyone really going to be, "man, that shit is corny"? (Actually, knowing this board, I think the answer would be "yes").
However, if Jay did EVERY show with "Raw" then it would seem not so...uh...raw.
In any case, anyone who thinks the Roots have hip-hop's best live show sounds like someone who hasn't been to enough hip-hop shows.
(And to answer JP's question: the Roots backing Jay-Z was hot).
i don't agree that the Roots have spent the last 12 years touring with the same routine (they have put out a new album every 2 years or so), but even if they did, they still KILL at their shows, and by KILL i mean everyone is off their seats, dancing (noodling), singing along...having a good time.
I swear, some of you guys need a visit from the Nike Fun Police. WE get it, its not cool to like the Roots in 2006, as opposed to the musical geniuses known as 3-6 Mafia, but if you are trying to argue that they don't put on a good live show...their 12 year touring history speaks to the contrary.
the roots perform more than any other rap act. if 3-6 mafia/MOP went out on the road as much as the roots, they'd be telling the same lines on stage and going throught the same routines as well. beyond that, the roots are talented players and its nice to see some good musicianship at a live show. i agree that it at times comes off as a 'jam band' breakdown when they get into their solos, but i don't see how that's a bad thing. their jamming is good!
i think a lot of this vitriol comes from the fact that a different demographic has embraced the roots and you jerkoffs are afraid to be associated with them. why can't you enjoy the fact that the roots have crossover appeal? does it make you scared that you and the hippy chick from san francisco may have the same tastes in some music.
the tipping point was a solid album and folls are pissing all over it like black eyed peas.
Exactly,
Listen guys critiques of rap in a deciphering fashion is easy. We could go on and on about Jay-Z and Nas for example. This song, this album, this quote but no one dismisses their contribution to hiphop Please show a little respect or restraint. Innovative band, good song, good MC
Stop dissing The Roots as if you we're talking about little brother.
the roots perform more than any other rap act. if 3-6 mafia/MOP went out on the road as much as the roots, they'd be telling the same lines on stage and going throught the same routines as well. beyond that, the roots are talented players and its nice to see some good musicianship at a live show. i agree that it at times comes off as a 'jam band' breakdown when they get into their solos, but i don't see how that's a bad thing. their jamming is good!
i think a lot of this vitriol comes from the fact that a different demographic has embraced the roots and you jerkoffs are afraid to be associated with them. why can't you enjoy the fact that the roots have crossover appeal? does it make you scared that you and the hippy chick from san francisco may have the same tastes in some music.
the tipping point was a solid album and folls are pissing all over it like black eyed peas.
Exactly,
Listen guys critiques of rap in a deciphering fashion is easy. We could go on and on about Jay-Z and Nas for example. This song, this album, this quote but no one dismisses their contribution to hiphop Please show a little respect or restraint. Innovative band, good song, good MC
Stop dissing The Roots as if you we're talking about little brother.
So quick to defend the south yet so fast to diss
Your argument presupposes that they are somehow deserving of significantly more respect than Little Brother.
I really don't think that they are--to me, both acts make uninspired fanboy hip-hop.
Could it be that people aren't simply "pretending" to dislike the Roots because it isn't "cool" to do so, but that people genuinely don't like the group or find them boring? Or perhaps it isn't "cool" to like the Roots precisely because they aren't very good or interesting?
The roots dont do much for me lately either. But I have to give credit where credit is due- Both "Water" and "The Seed 2.0" (props to Cody Chestnutt) of Phrenology were pretty outstanding songs. Let's be real, the trend in hip-hop (both mainstream and hipsters) is for for club bangers. I dont see them doing that, nor should they.
Liking a group circa 1995 does not obligate one to like a group circa 2006. Past performance is not a reliable indication of future potential. "The Tipping Point" was a weak ass album and this comes from someone who put both "Phrenology" and "Things Fall Apart" in his top 10 list in the years they came out.
Furthermore, The Roots' heavy touring schedule is not an excuse for a recycled show. It might explain it but if the show feels tired, the show feels tired.
For the record, I don't know if personally, I'd rather go see a Three 6 show instead of The Roots. I might just stay home, stay disconnected.
Let's be real, the trend in hip-hop (both mainstream and hipsters) is for for club bangers.
Please to explain: when has hip-hop NOT been about club bangers? Did I miss rap's folk ballad years?
Not trying to point fingers at anyone specifically, but I get the impression that a lot of today's youth think that 80s-early 90s rap was all underground hush-hush type shit and that dudes weren't getting on the radio and MTV(and TRYING to be successful no less)... I could be wrong, but I think that has something to do with the fact that they think that so-called 'golden era' material was somehow more 'real' than the popular rap of today...
You know, I never got to see 3rd Bass live, but I was always curious how they came off, seeing as how Serch was a natural showman and Daddy Rich was insane on the decks. What kind of shit did they do live?
I saw them headline with Nice n Smooth opening at the Paradise, a fairly small club in Boston, circa '91. They did put on a good show, PMPN had the throne on stage - I think it was like a phone booth or something, and it turns around when they come out and the back is a throne and he's sitting on it with the stogie, cane and all...Richie Rich was killin' it, and they had the best dancers I have seen yet at a live hip hop show, 2 girls, both hot, both with skills. Mad dudes were pressing up on stage after the show to kick it to those dancers. Nice n Smooth were real good, too, except they got hung up on that "YO TURN MY MIC UP IMMA BUST A SOUND MAN IN HIS GODDAMN NECK WHAT THE " bullshit that is so common at rap shows.
its all time and place. now The Roots are not as relevent as they once were. yes they appealed and still appeal to college crowds but so does three 6 Mafia, Dipset, Bun B, Chamillionarie, Paul Wall, UGK. I look at the pix from Devin the Dude in NYC and he is playing for more white people than the roots do, does that make him fan boy rap? Faux, Your argument makes no sense, and seems to ahve more to do with your personal disdain for the roots than actual facts.
Also don't forget, as down as you seem to want to be, with your selections of music, its not the hood that makes shit platinum or popular, its your suburban and college kids ie. white people.
. I look at the pix from Devin the Dude in NYC and he is playing for more white people than the roots do, does that make him fan boy rap?
I think that's the point - it's not about the audience (as many Roots fanboys argue), it actually is about the music. Because, while you could say that Devin plays to more white folks you certainly can't say that the Roots have made anything remotely in the same building as him in the past five years.
Let's be real, the trend in hip-hop (both mainstream and hipsters) is for for club bangers.
Please to explain: when has hip-hop NOT been about club bangers? Did I miss rap's folk ballad years?
Odub, c'mon are you serious? I mean step back and look at Fight the Power vs. Get Crunked up... Its transparent. Talk to people at the majors ask them what is going on. All they're targeting are club hits. No risk taking. They're throwing singles out and seeing what sticks. Hell half the majors are getting rid of their "urban" departments because its all pop to them now...
KVH - why does it have to be an either/or situation? you can either like Three 6 Mafia or you can like The Roots but you can't like both?
I saw The Roots when "Do You Want More" had been out for about 6 months, and they were great live. In retrospect that album is pretty wack compared to every Roots album that came after it, but they were such a good live band and the concept was so new that it didn't matter. The best part about it was the covers (Black Thought's versatility + the novelty of a rap band covering Wu Tang, Audio Two, etc) and the beatboxing. I saw them years later when "Things Fall Apart" was out and was pretty disappointed - the long solos were annoying, and they did these jazzy, dissonant versions of their own songs instead of playing them how they sounded on the album. I don't need to hear the complicated ugly arty version, just play the damn song without a bunch of extra keyboard noodling. The hot part of the show was bringing out Common, Buckshot, Mos Def, Kweli, etc to perform their hits and freestyle and do their verses from Roots songs. Other than that it was a bloated show with too much jamming. They killed it as the backup band for Jay-Z. They stayed very faithful to the original beats, and Quest doing the "Jigga What Jigga Who" drums was crazy. The live DVD last year was also pretty good except for the guests (lackluster Mad Skillz and no-name rappers brought the energy down). Black Thought performing Web / Boom! live was amazing, not because he got the Kane / G Rap voices right but because he has such great breath control - rapping that long for that fast with no choruses.
Well, I've never seen a roots show. In fact I haven't really seen very many rap shows, but the best one I've ever seen, and in fact probably ever will see was Slick Rick. That was 40 minutes of Jaw Droppedness. It was like a religious experience. Rick fucking KILLED it. wow.
And KRS still kills it. He's insane, but puts on a fun show!
Also don't forget, as down as you seem to want to be, with your selections of music, its not the hood that makes shit platinum or popular, its your suburban and college kids ie. white people.
Those suburban and college kids look to the hood to see what is cool.
Nice n Smooth were real good, too, except they got hung up on that "YO TURN MY MIC UP IMMA BUST A SOUND MAN IN HIS GODDAMN NECK WHAT THE " bullshit that is so common at rap shows.
I did a show with them in 2005 and they did the same thing. Classic.
its all time and place. now The Roots are not as relevent as they once were. yes they appealed and still appeal to college crowds but so does three 6 Mafia, Dipset, Bun B, Chamillionarie, Paul Wall, UGK. I look at the pix from Devin the Dude in NYC and he is playing for more white people than the roots do, does that make him fan boy rap? Faux, Your argument makes no sense, and seems to ahve more to do with your personal disdain for the roots than actual facts.
Okay, let me break this down into very small pieces for you, since you seem to be struggling with it:
That. Is. Not. My. Argument.
That is your argument--which, for some reason, you are ascribing to me.
My argument is simply that the Roots are boring. They make boring records. And their live shows are tired.
Anything else I have to say about them is just an aside made for comic relief.
fukkit, this shits been bugging me. Like i said, they put on a bad show when i saw them, but im cutting slack, the roots are the shit, if you dont like them you are a wanker.
. I look at the pix from Devin the Dude in NYC and he is playing for more white people than the roots do, does that make him fan boy rap? /quote]
I think that's the point - it's not about the audience (as many Roots fanboys argue), it actually is about the music. Because, while you could say that Devin plays to more white folks you certainly can't say that the Roots have made anything remotely in the same building as him in the past five years.
My point is their crowds overlap. Alot of the same people looking for devin outside of the hood are looking for the roots. Its not that their music is the same, its more that its variety. Neither is more real than the next or mroe down or anything more than a different music style. The attitude of alot of posters on this board is that their perceived fanbase determines how I guess real or down the group is, instead of taking at face value their musical output as being good or bad.
I like some of Devin's stuff, but alot of it is ehhh. I like some fo the roots stuff but alot of it is ehhh, I like some of NWA's stuff but some of it is ehhhh... I like alot of Public Enemy's stuff but some if it is ehhhh.
My point is that IT IS about the music (at least to me), but people on this board want to stop at the fanbase. Hipsters drive me up the wall but that won't stop me from listening to DipSet...
they really don't though. i don't think there are too many places in america other than nyc where devin would pull a primarily white crowd. i think that crowd had a lot more to do with the promoters than with devin's fanbase.
My point is that IT IS about the music (at least to me), but people on this board want to stop at the fanbase. Hipsters drive me up the wall but that won't stop me from listening to DipSet...
If you actually think anybody on here is not listening to music they think is great due to the fans you're out of your mind...
. I look at the pix from Devin the Dude in NYC and he is playing for more white people than the roots do, does that make him fan boy rap?
I think that's the point - it's not about the audience (as many Roots fanboys argue), it actually is about the music. Because, while you could say that Devin plays to more white folks you certainly can't say that the Roots have made anything remotely in the same building as him in the past five years.
My point is their crowds overlap. Alot of the same people looking for devin outside of the hood are looking for the roots. Its not that their music is the same, its more that its variety. Neither is more real than the next or mroe down or anything more than a different music style. The attitude of alot of posters on this board is that their perceived fanbase determines how I guess real or down the group is, instead of taking at face value their musical output as being good or bad.
I like some of Devin's stuff, but alot of it is ehhh. I like some fo the roots stuff but alot of it is ehhh, I like some of NWA's stuff but some of it is ehhhh... I like alot of Public Enemy's stuff but some if it is ehhhh.
My point is that IT IS about the music (at least to me), but people on this board want to stop at the fanbase. Hipsters drive me up the wall but that won't stop me from listening to DipSet...
Again, dude, the only people hung up on the subject of the Roots' fanbase appear to be you and your hommie van horn
its all time and place. now The Roots are not as relevent as they once were. yes they appealed and still appeal to college crowds but so does three 6 Mafia, Dipset, Bun B, Chamillionarie, Paul Wall, UGK. I look at the pix from Devin the Dude in NYC and he is playing for more white people than the roots do, does that make him fan boy rap? Faux, Your argument makes no sense, and seems to ahve more to do with your personal disdain for the roots than actual facts.
Okay, let me break this down into very small pieces for you, since you seem to be struggling with it:
That. Is. Not. My. Argument.
That is your argument--which, for some reason, you are ascribing to me.
My argument is simply that the Roots are boring. They make boring records. And their live shows are tired.
Anything else I have to say about them is just an aside made for comic relief.
Got it?
OK so you are simply recycling the fact again that you dislike the roots. great. I think everyone is aware of that. Why do you jump in these convos again then if you hate the group, hate their shows, and have no real opinion to give since you haven't checked for them in 6 or 7 years? go eat a sammich or get laid or something.
its all time and place. now The Roots are not as relevent as they once were. yes they appealed and still appeal to college crowds but so does three 6 Mafia, Dipset, Bun B, Chamillionarie, Paul Wall, UGK. I look at the pix from Devin the Dude in NYC and he is playing for more white people than the roots do, does that make him fan boy rap? Faux, Your argument makes no sense, and seems to ahve more to do with your personal disdain for the roots than actual facts.
Okay, let me break this down into very small pieces for you, since you seem to be struggling with it:
That. Is. Not. My. Argument.
That is your argument--which, for some reason, you are ascribing to me.
My argument is simply that the Roots are boring. They make boring records. And their live shows are tired.
Anything else I have to say about them is just an aside made for comic relief.
Got it?
OK so you are simply recycling the fact again that you dislike the roots. great. I think everyone is aware of that. Why do you jump in these convos again then if you hate the group, hate their shows, and have no real opinion to give since you haven't checked for them in 6 or 7 years? go eat a sammich or get laid or something.
they really don't though. i don't think there are too many places in america other than nyc where devin would pull a primarily white crowd. i think that crowd had a lot more to do with the promoters than with devin's fanbase.
Yup. I could send anyone who thinks Devin has a white audience some footage from his shows in Cleveland or various down south locations and finding a white dude in the audience would be like "where's Waldo" and shit. All respect due to the promoter who brough Devin to NY, but her reach doesn't really extend beyond downtown trustfund types and skateboarders and I don't think the show even necessarily accurately represented his fanbase even in NY. The Roots on the other hand play to the same audience wherever they go.
My point is that IT IS about the music (at least to me), but people on this board want to stop at the fanbase. Hipsters drive me up the wall but that won't stop me from listening to DipSet...
If you actually think anybody on here is not listening to music they think is great due to the fans you're out of your mind...
No but alot of people use artist's fanbase as their argument.. ie. fanboy hiphop... instead of saying somethign to the effect of: yeh I dislike the group's music becausae it doesn't appeal to me. but then again if you are not checking for a group for their last 3 releases or so, then where is your argument?
PE hasn't put out anything worhtwhile for a minute IMO, but that won't stop me from picking up a release to check it and make my own descision on whether or not I like the music.
And as far as their fanbase overlapping, alot of the same kids that like dipset, like devin, like the roots whether its NYC, LA, Chicago, North Carolina. If you travel to these areas and look who is at the shows or the nights playing the music its all the same. Its not a bad thing, its just the way it is. people want to be down or people like the music, or both.
Comments
i don't agree that the Roots have spent the last 12 years touring with the same routine (they have put out a new album every 2 years or so), but even if they did, they still KILL at their shows, and by KILL i mean everyone is off their seats, dancing (noodling), singing along...having a good time.
I swear, some of you guys need a visit from the Nike Fun Police. WE get it, its not cool to like the Roots in 2006, as opposed to the musical geniuses known as 3-6 Mafia, but if you are trying to argue that they don't put on a good live show...their 12 year touring history speaks to the contrary.
Exactly,
Listen guys critiques of rap in a deciphering fashion is easy. We could go on and on about Jay-Z and Nas for example. This song, this album, this quote but no one dismisses their contribution to hiphop
Please show a little respect or restraint. Innovative band, good song, good MC
Stop dissing The Roots as if you we're talking about little brother.
So quick to defend the south yet so fast to diss
Your argument presupposes that they are somehow deserving of significantly more respect than Little Brother.
I really don't think that they are--to me, both acts make uninspired fanboy hip-hop.
Could it be that people aren't simply "pretending" to dislike the Roots because it isn't "cool" to do so, but that people genuinely don't like the group or find them boring? Or perhaps it isn't "cool" to like the Roots precisely because they aren't very good or interesting?
Please to define: "fanboy hip-hop"?
Keith:
Liking a group circa 1995 does not obligate one to like a group circa 2006. Past performance is not a reliable indication of future potential. "The Tipping Point" was a weak ass album and this comes from someone who put both "Phrenology" and "Things Fall Apart" in his top 10 list in the years they came out.
Furthermore, The Roots' heavy touring schedule is not an excuse for a recycled show. It might explain it but if the show feels tired, the show feels tired.
For the record, I don't know if personally, I'd rather go see a Three 6 show instead of The Roots. I might just stay home, stay disconnected.
Please to explain: when has hip-hop NOT been about club bangers? Did I miss rap's folk ballad years?
Not trying to point fingers at anyone specifically, but I get the impression that a lot of today's youth think that 80s-early 90s rap was all underground hush-hush
I saw them headline with Nice n Smooth opening at the Paradise, a fairly small club in Boston, circa '91.
They did put on a good show, PMPN had the throne on stage - I think it was like a phone booth or something, and it turns around when they come out and the back is a throne and he's sitting on it with the stogie, cane and all...Richie Rich was killin' it, and they had the best dancers I have seen yet at a live hip hop show, 2 girls, both hot, both with skills. Mad dudes were pressing up on stage after the show to kick it to those dancers. Nice n Smooth were real good, too, except they got hung up on that "YO TURN MY MIC UP IMMA BUST A SOUND MAN IN HIS GODDAMN NECK WHAT THE " bullshit that is so common at rap shows.
Also don't forget, as down as you seem to want to be, with your selections of music, its not the hood that makes shit platinum or popular, its your suburban and college kids ie. white people.
I think that's the point - it's not about the audience (as many Roots fanboys argue), it actually is about the music. Because, while you could say that Devin plays to more white folks you certainly can't say that the Roots have made anything remotely in the same building as him in the past five years.
Odub, c'mon are you serious? I mean step back and look at Fight the Power vs. Get Crunked up... Its transparent. Talk to people at the majors ask them what is going on. All they're targeting are club hits. No risk taking. They're throwing singles out and seeing what sticks. Hell half the majors are getting rid of their "urban" departments because its all pop to them now...
its not the same as it was, its a different game.
I saw The Roots when "Do You Want More" had been out for about 6 months, and they were great live. In retrospect that album is pretty wack compared to every Roots album that came after it, but they were such a good live band and the concept was so new that it didn't matter. The best part about it was the covers (Black Thought's versatility + the novelty of a rap band covering Wu Tang, Audio Two, etc) and the beatboxing. I saw them years later when "Things Fall Apart" was out and was pretty disappointed - the long solos were annoying, and they did these jazzy, dissonant versions of their own songs instead of playing them how they sounded on the album. I don't need to hear the complicated ugly arty version, just play the damn song without a bunch of extra keyboard noodling. The hot part of the show was bringing out Common, Buckshot, Mos Def, Kweli, etc to perform their hits and freestyle and do their verses from Roots songs. Other than that it was a bloated show with too much jamming. They killed it as the backup band for Jay-Z. They stayed very faithful to the original beats, and Quest doing the "Jigga What Jigga Who" drums was crazy. The live DVD last year was also pretty good except for the guests (lackluster Mad Skillz and no-name rappers brought the energy down). Black Thought performing Web / Boom! live was amazing, not because he got the Kane / G Rap voices right but because he has such great breath control - rapping that long for that fast with no choruses.
And KRS still kills it. He's insane, but puts on a fun show!
Those suburban and college kids look to the hood to see what is cool.
I did a show with them in 2005 and they did the same thing. Classic.
Uninspired rap made by people who are more motivated by a desire to be just like their favorite acts than by any sort of real creative spark.
I know you know what I'm talking about.
Okay, let me break this down into very small pieces for you, since you seem to be struggling with it:
That. Is. Not. My. Argument.
That is your argument--which, for some reason, you are ascribing to me.
My argument is simply that the Roots are boring. They make boring records. And their live shows are tired.
Anything else I have to say about them is just an aside made for comic relief.
Got it?
There. i said it. now i feel better.
they really don't though. i don't think there are too many places in america other than nyc where devin would pull a primarily white crowd. i think that crowd had a lot more to do with the promoters than with devin's fanbase.
If you actually think anybody on here is not listening to music they think is great due to the fans you're out of your mind...
Again, dude, the only people hung up on the subject of the Roots' fanbase appear to be you and your hommie van horn
Dude, I called that like 2 pages ago.
OK so you are simply recycling the fact again that you dislike the roots. great. I think everyone is aware of that. Why do you jump in these convos again then if you hate the group, hate their shows, and have no real opinion to give since you haven't checked for them in 6 or 7 years? go eat a sammich or get laid or something.
be one-page circle jerks. EMBRACE THE HATE!!
Really though.
Yup. I could send anyone who thinks Devin has a white audience some footage from his shows in Cleveland or various down south locations and finding a white dude in the audience would be like "where's Waldo" and shit. All respect due to the promoter who brough Devin to NY, but her reach doesn't really extend beyond downtown trustfund types and skateboarders and I don't think the show even necessarily accurately represented his fanbase even in NY. The Roots on the other hand play to the same audience wherever they go.
No but alot of people use artist's fanbase as their argument.. ie. fanboy hiphop... instead of saying somethign to the effect of: yeh I dislike the group's music becausae it doesn't appeal to me. but then again if you are not checking for a group for their last 3 releases or so, then where is your argument?
PE hasn't put out anything worhtwhile for a minute IMO, but that won't stop me from picking up a release to check it and make my own descision on whether or not I like the music.
And as far as their fanbase overlapping, alot of the same kids that like dipset, like devin, like the roots whether its NYC, LA, Chicago, North Carolina. If you travel to these areas and look who is at the shows or the nights playing the music its all the same. Its not a bad thing, its just the way it is. people want to be down or people like the music, or both.