you know, i think the horror of war should not be whitewashed but posting those photos here is so completely inappropriate it's hard to know where to begin...kala, you're better than that... please take that shit down.
you know, i think the horror of war should not be whitewashed but posting those photos here is so completely inappropriate it's hard to know where to begin...kala, you're better than that... please take that shit down.
No one comes here to see that. We can (heatedly) debate, but let's not go too far.
Fuck, man. This situation is so volatile I can't even have a conversation about it IN MY OWN HOUSE without it turning into an argument.
Look around anywhere online and you'll see the same. The most innocuous comment ends up in a back and forth with no end in sight.
And that's a micro example of why this shit will never end. People just need to put the weapons down, stop fighting and carve out a two state solution. I know I'm being unrealistic, but fuck. How else can this ever end?
This.
Jonny and Day speaking truth. Rockadelic too.
And there is some ridiculous stuff going on with my facebook friends.
One posted an article that explained that all anti-Israel arguments and all Pro-Palestine arguments are at their core anti-Semitic.
Then yesterday I am confronted with an obviously doctored vid of Netenyahu talking about targeting schools and hospitals with Hillary Clinton standing next to him. Took about 5 minutes of web surfing to debunk the vid, but by that time there was a bunch of comments from people who had no problem fully believing the vid.
A 2 state solution may be the answer. But peace, not violence is the only way we will get there.
Looks like at this point this is finally the end game,they will kill as many people as possible[civilians included],and those that are left will be "relocated",Israel will take all the land and call it "a victory".
It's obvious even to the casual observer that this is now a full blown ethnic cleansing/genocide/slaughter and the slow motion holocaust is now in full speed.
Canada is really embarassing across the board. Disgrace.
Agreed. This Conservative government is turning once what was a decent and somewhat respectable name around the world into mud.
On a side note. A vast majority of gun violence in our country comes directly from smuggled illegal guns coming from across the border. When do we start bombing and destroying whole neighbourhoods in the US to put a stop to this?
Looks like at this point this is finally the end game,they will kill as many people as possible[civilians included],and those that are left will be "relocated",Israel will take all the land and call it "a victory".
It's obvious even to the casual observer that this is now a full blown ethnic cleansing/genocide/slaughter and the slow motion holocaust is now in full speed.
Between this and the totally inappropriate photos you posted you've pretty much gone entirely off the rails.
Were this the case, there would not be a white person left alive and well in North or South America.
Of course, that was an emotional reaction and not a realistic one. We, as a species, would have never made it this far if that were truly the case. Although we definitely push the boundaries.
It's tough not to become cynical in the current climate.
Were this the case, there would not be a white person left alive and well in North or South America.
Of course, that was an emotional reaction and not a realistic one. We, as a species, would have never made it this far if that were truly the case. Although we definitely push the boundaries.
It's tough not to become cynical in the current climate.
I totally understand, and agree. I say it for my own sanity.
Looks like at this point this is finally the end game,they will kill as many people as possible[civilians included],and those that are left will be "relocated",Israel will take all the land and call it "a victory".
It's obvious even to the casual observer that this is now a full blown ethnic cleansing/genocide/slaughter and the slow motion holocaust is now in full speed.
Between this and the totally inappropriate photos you posted you've pretty much gone entirely off the rails.
Israeli forces unleashed some of the most intense bombardments of the 3-week-old war with Hamas on Tuesday, flattening the home of the militant group's top political leader in the Gaza Strip, damaging the offices of an affiliated television station and knocking out the densely populated coastal enclave's only power station, according to Palestinian officials.
The strikes killed more than 100 Palestinians, raising the Gaza death toll in the campaign to more than 1,200. At least 53 soldiers and three civilians have been killed on the Israeli side.
Many of the strikes appeared aimed at weakening Hamas, suggesting an expansion of the Israeli aerial and ground campaign that Israeli officials said was focused on stopping the rocket fire raining down on Israel and destroying the network of tunnels used by Palestinian militants to funnel weapons and fighters into the country. Militants firing antitank missiles emerged from those tunnels Monday and killed five soldiers near a kibbutz called Nahal Oz.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made no mention of an expansion, a move some in his Cabinet have urged. But he warned of a ÔÇ£prolongedÔÇØ campaign ahead.
International efforts to broker a truce have been fruitless. Another cease-fire proposal Tuesday was swiftly dismissed by Israel and Hamas.
The Palestinian leadership in the West Bank had announced that the factions fighting in the strip were prepared to accept a 24-hour humanitarian truce with the possibility of an extension, and would join Palestinian Authority representatives in Cairo for another round of talks.
The announcement followed ÔÇ£intensive contacts and consultations with the leadership of Hamas and Islamic Jihad,ÔÇØ said Yasser Abed-Rabbo, secretary-general of the Palestine Liberation Organization.
Israeli officials said they would wait to hear from Hamas, which governs Gaza.
Sami abu Zuhri, HamasÔÇÖ spokesman in Gaza, issued a statement saying Abed-RabboÔÇÖs declaration was incorrect and did not represent the position of the ÔÇ£resistance.ÔÇØ
In an audio recording broadcast on HamasÔÇÖ Al Aqsa television channel, Mohammed Deif, leader of the groupÔÇÖs military wing, said, ÔÇ£There will be no cease-fire without ending the blockade and the aggression on Gaza.ÔÇØ
Hamas is demanding that Israel and Egypt lift crippling border restrictions imposed when the militant group took power in Gaza in 2007. Israel says there can be no solution without the ÔÇ£demilitarizationÔÇØ of the strip.
Air raid sirens sounded in Tel Aviv and the Jerusalem area as Palestinian militants fired volleys of rockets toward Israel on Tuesday night. In Gaza City, the streets were largely deserted after a night of huge explosions, with orange flares lighting up the sky.
Muna Khutab, 46, said people started fleeing to the northeast of Gaza City around 10 p.m., most without packing, after Red Cross workers passed along evacuation warnings from the Israeli military. ÔÇ£A lot of people left without clothes, shoes,ÔÇØ she said.
Evacuees hurried through the darkened streets amid exploding shells and burning homes, she said. Soon after reaching a relative's house, Khutab said, she received a call saying her 18-year-old niece, Hiba Abu Daff, had been injured in an airstrike. At first light, she rushed to Shifa hospital in Gaza City, where she remained Tuesday at the girl's bedside.
Her niece was curled up under a sheet, with bandages wrapped around her head. Her father, Ibrahim, said the family had retreated to a storage room to wait out the bombardment.
ÔÇ£My daughter was running to get her head scarf when a shell went through the balcony and hit the upper floor where she was,ÔÇØ he said.
More than 10,000 people displaced by the latest shelling piled into overcrowded schools overnight, according to the United Nations aid agency for Palestinian refugees.
The agency, which is sheltering about 200,000 people at 85 schools, was bracing for more arrivals Tuesday after Israeli forces dropped leaflets and sent recorded phone messages warning more residents to evacuate.
ÔÇ£We've reached breaking point in the humanitarian community,ÔÇØ said Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency. ÔÇ£It is now time for others, particularly the government of Israel, to assume their responsibilities under international law for hundreds of thousands of people displaced by their actions.ÔÇØ
Israel says the evacuation warnings are aimed at protecting noncombatants whom it said Hamas and its allies put in harmÔÇÖs way by operating in residential areas.
Israel's military said its forces targeted more than 110 sites in Gaza on Tuesday, including the vacant home of Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh and the offices of the group's Al Aqsa television station. Government buildings and mosques also were destroyed.
A fuel tank supplying the strip's only power plant was hit, igniting a fire that shut down the facility.
Damage to power lines from Israel to Gaza already had sharply curtailed the number of hours that residents received power, and loss of the station was likely to leave them in the dark and shut down other services, said Jamal Dardasawi, a spokesman for the electricity distribution company.
ÔÇ£Without power, there will be no sewage processing, no water processing.... Everything will stop,ÔÇØ he said.
The plant's director, Mohammed Sharif, said it could take a year to repair the damage.
Times staff writer Zavis reported from Gaza City and special correspondent Batsheva Sobelman from Jerusalem.
at the same time, Israel is supported by billions of our tax dollars... it is *absolutely* our business.
thoughts on why fools rampage in the streets of Berlin and Paris, though?
obviously not blaming anyone in this thread for that, just soliciting your thoughts.
I (personally) find the idea that many US citizens get so heated over the Israel situation (and not other situations) solely because of how much aid we send them to be a laughable explanation. but at least there's some logic to it.
what's jacques' and fritz's excuse?
Those were mostly Arab or Muslims participating in those protests.
As a European I can confirm that Americans generally widely differ on this issue from us.
My 80 year old Irish-born mother yesterday: "I think both sides are wrong."
Well, yeah.
Also: "Would you compare this to England and Northern Ireland?"
No. The Israelis make the English - even the English under Thatcher, that piece of shit - look like great humanitarians. Gaza is a hellhole which is so much worse than any part of Ulster has been in the past 50 years that I don't have words to express it. Gaza is Gitmo times 100,000 only with starvation and the twisted bodies of dead children on top of the Hades sundae.
Moderate and liberal Israelis need to get their RWNJs under control before they squander the good will that's left. Israel can't survive as an apartheid state, which is exactly what it is right now.
Personally I dont think there ever will be a two state solution, mostly because Israels opponents will never accept compromise, they will always want to continue the armed conflict because their only acceptable solution to the issue is the annihilation of israel. In that process more innocent civilians dying is a big plus for these armed and violent opponents of israel as it legitimizes their struggle and insures continued support for their cause - the death of as many jews as possible and the end of israel. Which feeds right into the israeli extreme, and the never ending threat of terror anywhere perceived enemies of palestinians-muslims reside.
If palestine or the idea of palestine would come to fall within israeli borders, if it were to be absorbed by israel and legally come to fall under israeli law I believe that would probably be the best thing that could ever happen to the palestinians in the long run from an economic and humanitarian point of view, having visited the region, and having spent time in israel, theres no denying how much better things are for citizens in israel (including muslims, arabs, gays, opponents of israel etc etc) than anywhere else in the region from almost every angle, imo. Although this will probably never happen.
By now the impossibility of a peacable or moderate solution to the situation is so obvious, the proclaimed love of death by israels opponents having been so violently attested, that a resolution forced through armed conflict is the only feasible reality that exists in the eyes of many on all sides, as disgusting as that reality is, it is only in part israels responsibility.
Does that justify war and violence and a horrid human toll? No. Is that acceptable? No. Is there any nation or state that hasnt paid a similar price for its existence in human history? Hardly. What we are witnessing is not simply the palestinians fault, the americans fault or the israelis fault, it is the ugly reality of human nature, as is the extreme situation israel has always found itself in. And it is far from the only place on earth you can find it. Ask a native american how he feels about the good old U S of A, a mayan how they feel about spaniards or a chechnyan how they feel about mother Russia, or look up East Timor on wikipedia.
Let me know when Chicago looks like that and I'll protest.
BTW, I also regularly point out the sheer lunacy of American gun laws, and I think I've been told to mind my own business.
b/w
You want to talk about double standards? Russia indirectly involved with Flight MH17 - sanctions. Sanctions are needed against Israel to force them into moderation.
slight derailment - one response to the violence in Chicago was renewing efforts to curb "straw buying", whereby someone goes outside of the state or metro area (most of which have incredibly strict gun laws) and buys as many guns as they please in a nearby state or area where laws are less stringent (out of state gun shows & dealers) to re-sell. This is one way that the hoods of America get flooded with guns... Seems sensible. Went nowhere because MURICA
Personally I dont think there ever will be a two state solution, mostly because Israels opponents will never accept compromise, they will always want to continue the armed conflict because their only acceptable solution to the issue is the annihilation of israel. In that process more innocent civilians dying is a big plus for these armed and violent opponents of israel as it legitimizes their struggle and insures continued support for their cause - the death of as many jews as possible and the end of israel.
I think it has been proven, that Hamas and Israel's enemies do not have the weapons, forces or will to annihilate Israel.
On the other hand Israel Has proven that despite having the weapons and forces they do not have the will to annihilate all Palestinians.
I think it has been proven, that Hamas and Israel's enemies do not have the weapons, forces or will to annihilate Israel.
They not only have the will. It is their declared intention. They don't yet have the means but considering the current situation in Syria and Iraq this could potentially change fairly quick.
Ask yourself why does Hamas continue firing rockets that have such little military effect on Israel while causing such devastating retaliation? The only motivation for this is to use imagery as posted in this thread as propaganda and this propaganda apparently works. None of these children would be dead if Hamas wouldn't have fired those missiles. They sacrificed these people and they continue doing so.
Any comparison of this war/conflict to the Holocaust is just plain stupid and misinformed at an absurd level. If you have to ask why then -I'm sorry -but then you're just an idiot. Same goes for this apartheid and racial segregation bullshit.
Antisemitism in Europe has an old tradition that reaches back to long before the 3rd Reich and which as a latent undercurrent has survived ever since, just waiting for it to again become socially acceptable. Now we can witness it rearing its ugly head as Jewish stores are smashed and fire is being set to Synagogues.
I'm curious... do any of you guys believe that a two-state solution is feasible? I do...
In theory, it's the only sensible solution and one I wish could happen.
But religion, entitlement, politics, and atrocities will keep it from happening. It's depressing.
In my mind, the end to the conflict will come when the entire region occupied by both sides is fully annexed by one. It's a horrific thought, but I think that's what both sides truly desire.
Comments
No one comes here to see that. We can (heatedly) debate, but let's not go too far.
I'm sure kala means well enough...
This.
Jonny and Day speaking truth. Rockadelic too.
And there is some ridiculous stuff going on with my facebook friends.
One posted an article that explained that all anti-Israel arguments and all Pro-Palestine arguments are at their core anti-Semitic.
Then yesterday I am confronted with an obviously doctored vid of Netenyahu talking about targeting schools and hospitals with Hillary Clinton standing next to him. Took about 5 minutes of web surfing to debunk the vid, but by that time there was a bunch of comments from people who had no problem fully believing the vid.
A 2 state solution may be the answer. But peace, not violence is the only way we will get there.
No.
Agreed. This Conservative government is turning once what was a decent and somewhat respectable name around the world into mud.
On a side note. A vast majority of gun violence in our country comes directly from smuggled illegal guns coming from across the border. When do we start bombing and destroying whole neighbourhoods in the US to put a stop to this?
Between this and the totally inappropriate photos you posted you've pretty much gone entirely off the rails.
I'm not checking this thread again.
And with the separation wall and illegal settlements you trust Israel to?
+1
Were this the case, there would not be a white person left alive and well in North or South America.
Of course, that was an emotional reaction and not a realistic one. We, as a species, would have never made it this far if that were truly the case. Although we definitely push the boundaries.
It's tough not to become cynical in the current climate.
I totally understand, and agree. I say it for my own sanity.
Do you have children? Think about what might go through your mind if that happened to your child. Think about what you might do, or be capable of.
If someone did that to my daughter I would not rest until I killed every motherfucking thing related to it.
thank you mofo
that shit is put to remind fuckers what is really going on
i am sitting in for graffwriita this time to help blind fools see
oh and yes i am well off the fucking rails since age 11
never came back
bye now
don't look back like boston and shit
Israeli forces unleashed some of the most intense bombardments of the 3-week-old war with Hamas on Tuesday, flattening the home of the militant group's top political leader in the Gaza Strip, damaging the offices of an affiliated television station and knocking out the densely populated coastal enclave's only power station, according to Palestinian officials.
The strikes killed more than 100 Palestinians, raising the Gaza death toll in the campaign to more than 1,200. At least 53 soldiers and three civilians have been killed on the Israeli side.
Many of the strikes appeared aimed at weakening Hamas, suggesting an expansion of the Israeli aerial and ground campaign that Israeli officials said was focused on stopping the rocket fire raining down on Israel and destroying the network of tunnels used by Palestinian militants to funnel weapons and fighters into the country. Militants firing antitank missiles emerged from those tunnels Monday and killed five soldiers near a kibbutz called Nahal Oz.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made no mention of an expansion, a move some in his Cabinet have urged. But he warned of a ÔÇ£prolongedÔÇØ campaign ahead.
International efforts to broker a truce have been fruitless. Another cease-fire proposal Tuesday was swiftly dismissed by Israel and Hamas.
The Palestinian leadership in the West Bank had announced that the factions fighting in the strip were prepared to accept a 24-hour humanitarian truce with the possibility of an extension, and would join Palestinian Authority representatives in Cairo for another round of talks.
The announcement followed ÔÇ£intensive contacts and consultations with the leadership of Hamas and Islamic Jihad,ÔÇØ said Yasser Abed-Rabbo, secretary-general of the Palestine Liberation Organization.
Israeli officials said they would wait to hear from Hamas, which governs Gaza.
Sami abu Zuhri, HamasÔÇÖ spokesman in Gaza, issued a statement saying Abed-RabboÔÇÖs declaration was incorrect and did not represent the position of the ÔÇ£resistance.ÔÇØ
In an audio recording broadcast on HamasÔÇÖ Al Aqsa television channel, Mohammed Deif, leader of the groupÔÇÖs military wing, said, ÔÇ£There will be no cease-fire without ending the blockade and the aggression on Gaza.ÔÇØ
Hamas is demanding that Israel and Egypt lift crippling border restrictions imposed when the militant group took power in Gaza in 2007. Israel says there can be no solution without the ÔÇ£demilitarizationÔÇØ of the strip.
Air raid sirens sounded in Tel Aviv and the Jerusalem area as Palestinian militants fired volleys of rockets toward Israel on Tuesday night. In Gaza City, the streets were largely deserted after a night of huge explosions, with orange flares lighting up the sky.
Muna Khutab, 46, said people started fleeing to the northeast of Gaza City around 10 p.m., most without packing, after Red Cross workers passed along evacuation warnings from the Israeli military. ÔÇ£A lot of people left without clothes, shoes,ÔÇØ she said.
Evacuees hurried through the darkened streets amid exploding shells and burning homes, she said. Soon after reaching a relative's house, Khutab said, she received a call saying her 18-year-old niece, Hiba Abu Daff, had been injured in an airstrike. At first light, she rushed to Shifa hospital in Gaza City, where she remained Tuesday at the girl's bedside.
Her niece was curled up under a sheet, with bandages wrapped around her head. Her father, Ibrahim, said the family had retreated to a storage room to wait out the bombardment.
ÔÇ£My daughter was running to get her head scarf when a shell went through the balcony and hit the upper floor where she was,ÔÇØ he said.
More than 10,000 people displaced by the latest shelling piled into overcrowded schools overnight, according to the United Nations aid agency for Palestinian refugees.
The agency, which is sheltering about 200,000 people at 85 schools, was bracing for more arrivals Tuesday after Israeli forces dropped leaflets and sent recorded phone messages warning more residents to evacuate.
ÔÇ£We've reached breaking point in the humanitarian community,ÔÇØ said Chris Gunness, a spokesman for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency. ÔÇ£It is now time for others, particularly the government of Israel, to assume their responsibilities under international law for hundreds of thousands of people displaced by their actions.ÔÇØ
Israel says the evacuation warnings are aimed at protecting noncombatants whom it said Hamas and its allies put in harmÔÇÖs way by operating in residential areas.
Israel's military said its forces targeted more than 110 sites in Gaza on Tuesday, including the vacant home of Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh and the offices of the group's Al Aqsa television station. Government buildings and mosques also were destroyed.
A fuel tank supplying the strip's only power plant was hit, igniting a fire that shut down the facility.
Damage to power lines from Israel to Gaza already had sharply curtailed the number of hours that residents received power, and loss of the station was likely to leave them in the dark and shut down other services, said Jamal Dardasawi, a spokesman for the electricity distribution company.
ÔÇ£Without power, there will be no sewage processing, no water processing.... Everything will stop,ÔÇØ he said.
The plant's director, Mohammed Sharif, said it could take a year to repair the damage.
Times staff writer Zavis reported from Gaza City and special correspondent Batsheva Sobelman from Jerusalem.
Riiiiight.
Those were mostly Arab or Muslims participating in those protests.
As a European I can confirm that Americans generally widely differ on this issue from us.
now you know how some of us in the US feel dude.
then again it's not like Obama inherited a very "respectable name around the world."
Well, yeah.
Also: "Would you compare this to England and Northern Ireland?"
No. The Israelis make the English - even the English under Thatcher, that piece of shit - look like great humanitarians. Gaza is a hellhole which is so much worse than any part of Ulster has been in the past 50 years that I don't have words to express it. Gaza is Gitmo times 100,000 only with starvation and the twisted bodies of dead children on top of the Hades sundae.
Moderate and liberal Israelis need to get their RWNJs under control before they squander the good will that's left. Israel can't survive as an apartheid state, which is exactly what it is right now.
If palestine or the idea of palestine would come to fall within israeli borders, if it were to be absorbed by israel and legally come to fall under israeli law I believe that would probably be the best thing that could ever happen to the palestinians in the long run from an economic and humanitarian point of view, having visited the region, and having spent time in israel, theres no denying how much better things are for citizens in israel (including muslims, arabs, gays, opponents of israel etc etc) than anywhere else in the region from almost every angle, imo. Although this will probably never happen.
By now the impossibility of a peacable or moderate solution to the situation is so obvious, the proclaimed love of death by israels opponents having been so violently attested, that a resolution forced through armed conflict is the only feasible reality that exists in the eyes of many on all sides, as disgusting as that reality is, it is only in part israels responsibility.
Does that justify war and violence and a horrid human toll? No. Is that acceptable? No. Is there any nation or state that hasnt paid a similar price for its existence in human history? Hardly. What we are witnessing is not simply the palestinians fault, the americans fault or the israelis fault, it is the ugly reality of human nature, as is the extreme situation israel has always found itself in. And it is far from the only place on earth you can find it. Ask a native american how he feels about the good old U S of A, a mayan how they feel about spaniards or a chechnyan how they feel about mother Russia, or look up East Timor on wikipedia.
Let me know when Chicago looks like that and I'll protest.
BTW, I also regularly point out the sheer lunacy of American gun laws, and I think I've been told to mind my own business.
b/w
You want to talk about double standards? Russia indirectly involved with Flight MH17 - sanctions. Sanctions are needed against Israel to force them into moderation.
I think it has been proven, that Hamas and Israel's enemies do not have the weapons, forces or will to annihilate Israel.
On the other hand Israel Has proven that despite having the weapons and forces they do not have the will to annihilate all Palestinians.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/belgium-clear-labelling-goods-israeli-settlements
#Boycott Israel.
They not only have the will. It is their declared intention. They don't yet have the means but considering the current situation in Syria and Iraq this could potentially change fairly quick.
Ask yourself why does Hamas continue firing rockets that have such little military effect on Israel while causing such devastating retaliation? The only motivation for this is to use imagery as posted in this thread as propaganda and this propaganda apparently works. None of these children would be dead if Hamas wouldn't have fired those missiles. They sacrificed these people and they continue doing so.
Any comparison of this war/conflict to the Holocaust is just plain stupid and misinformed at an absurd level. If you have to ask why then -I'm sorry -but then you're just an idiot. Same goes for this apartheid and racial segregation bullshit.
Antisemitism in Europe has an old tradition that reaches back to long before the 3rd Reich and which as a latent undercurrent has survived ever since, just waiting for it to again become socially acceptable. Now we can witness it rearing its ugly head as Jewish stores are smashed and fire is being set to Synagogues.
This puts you in great company. My nazi grandfather also refused to buy Israeli produce.
He pretty much had the same impact.
I boycotted South Africa, will do the same for Israel, for the same reasons.
In theory, it's the only sensible solution and one I wish could happen.
But religion, entitlement, politics, and atrocities will keep it from happening. It's depressing.
In my mind, the end to the conflict will come when the entire region occupied by both sides is fully annexed by one. It's a horrific thought, but I think that's what both sides truly desire.