It doesn't really matter that Robbie is Australian, he could be Swedish or Japanese or South African. The issue is that he is at a far enough cultural remove from America (and in particular America in the 1990s) that some of his pronouncements and blanket statements are weird and tone deaf. The categories he is creating - "coffee house rap" or "conservative rap" don't really make sense to us who had a more intimate relationship to this music when it was new and emerging.
It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Robbie (or anyone) having their own taste in music. But if he's going to make larger statements about the qualitative value of the music based on invented monolithic ideas of "authenticity" and "real hip hop", then I'm calling bulls**t.
So if he was from LA or NY youd agree with him? Do only non-americans think like Robbie does? A white dude if hes from the US can make judgements on what is and what isnt real hip hop?
for the record I dont agree with Robbie or even the idea of real/unreal hip hop. Most of us Aussies that got into hip hop in the 80s/90s were non-regional in our taste and listened to a wide spectrum of hip hop and have a broader taste than Robbie (who btw is kinda taking the piss with these articles imo).
but i dont agree that being from the US automatically makes you more knowledgable, legitimate or able to understand hip hop than someone who isnt - especially if (im assuming here) you are a white boy. Its an individual thing. Why dont you ask aceyalone or abstract rude (who have both toured here alot) about some of the cats they rolled with while down here like Resin Dogs or Sereck? And really rather than dismiss robbies comments solely on the fact hes aussie - why not school him (and the rest of us) on what it is that we aint getting? Id honestly like to hear YOUR opinion on the matter and why.
I think its because you didn't learn anything from that beast of a thread doc linked earlier
oohh no internet bullies i should run in fear. ;) seems likea few seppos got their raw nerves touched more like it
don't know what a seppo is
but your butthurt concerns were addressed in that thread
just saying
I think that quote belongs to your compatriot champ ;)
And you dont dig the digables? I would have thought theyd be your cup of tea... Oops i mean coffee
Why would u think they would be my cup of coffee?
Why would you think they wouldnt be mine?
So you dont like Digable Planets?
To be honest I have no idea what you were trying to say with your post except placing someone elses quote as mine. Maybe i dont have the cultural nuanced to get your joke. Or maybe the shit just aint funny
It doesn't really matter that Robbie is Australian, he could be Swedish or Japanese or South African. The issue is that he is at a far enough cultural remove from America (and in particular America in the 1990s) that some of his pronouncements and blanket statements are weird and tone deaf. The categories he is creating - "coffee house rap" or "conservative rap" don't really make sense to us who had a more intimate relationship to this music when it was new and emerging.
It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Robbie (or anyone) having their own taste in music. But if he's going to make larger statements about the qualitative value of the music based on invented monolithic ideas of "authenticity" and "real hip hop", then I'm calling bulls**t.
So if he was from LA or NY youd agree with him? Do only non-americans think like Robbie does? A white dude if hes from the US can make judgements on what is and what isnt real hip hop?
for the record I dont agree with Robbie or even the idea of real/unreal hip hop. Most of us Aussies that got into hip hop in the 80s/90s were non-regional in our taste and listened to a wide spectrum of hip hop and have a broader taste than Robbie (who btw is kinda taking the piss with these articles imo).
but i dont agree that being from the US automatically makes you more knowledgable, legitimate or able to understand hip hop than someone who isnt - especially if (im assuming here) you are a white boy. Its an individual thing. Why dont you ask aceyalone or abstract rude (who have both toured here alot) about some of the cats they rolled with while down here like Resin Dogs or Sereck? And really rather than dismiss robbies comments solely on the fact hes aussie - why not school him (and the rest of us) on what it is that we aint getting? Id honestly like to hear YOUR opinion on the matter and why.
I think its because you didn't learn anything from that beast of a thread doc linked earlier
oohh no internet bullies i should run in fear. ;) seems likea few seppos got their raw nerves touched more like it
don't know what a seppo is
but your butthurt concerns were addressed in that thread
just saying
Yes you got me. Work, family, my health, my financial future, the environment, war and injustice doesnt concern me. But your opinion does.
Oh yeah. Seppois short for septic tank which is what aussie soldiers used to call white us soldiers in ww2. Some to do with being full of shit I believe ;)
I think that quote belongs to your compatriot champ ;)
And you dont dig the digables? I would have thought theyd be your cup of tea... Oops i mean coffee
Why would u think they would be my cup of coffee?
Why would you think they wouldnt be mine?
So you dont like Digable Planets?
To be honest I have no idea what you were trying to say with your post except placing someone elses quote as mine. Maybe i dont have the cultural nuanced to get your joke. Or maybe the shit just aint funny
I just pulled out what I think is an example of Coffee-House Rap. I wasnt trying to diss anyone here.
It doesn't really matter that Robbie is Australian, he could be Swedish or Japanese or South African. The issue is that he is at a far enough cultural remove from America (and in particular America in the 1990s) that some of his pronouncements and blanket statements are weird and tone deaf. The categories he is creating - "coffee house rap" or "conservative rap" don't really make sense to us who had a more intimate relationship to this music when it was new and emerging.
It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with Robbie (or anyone) having their own taste in music. But if he's going to make larger statements about the qualitative value of the music based on invented monolithic ideas of "authenticity" and "real hip hop", then I'm calling bulls**t.
So if he was from LA or NY youd agree with him? Do only non-americans think like Robbie does? A white dude if hes from the US can make judgements on what is and what isnt real hip hop?
for the record I dont agree with Robbie or even the idea of real/unreal hip hop. Most of us Aussies that got into hip hop in the 80s/90s were non-regional in our taste and listened to a wide spectrum of hip hop and have a broader taste than Robbie (who btw is kinda taking the piss with these articles imo).
but i dont agree that being from the US automatically makes you more knowledgable, legitimate or able to understand hip hop than someone who isnt - especially if (im assuming here) you are a white boy. Its an individual thing. Why dont you ask aceyalone or abstract rude (who have both toured here alot) about some of the cats they rolled with while down here like Resin Dogs or Sereck? And really rather than dismiss robbies comments solely on the fact hes aussie - why not school him (and the rest of us) on what it is that we aint getting? Id honestly like to hear YOUR opinion on the matter and why.
I think its because you didn't learn anything from that beast of a thread doc linked earlier
oohh no internet bullies i should run in fear. ;) seems likea few seppos got their raw nerves touched more like it
don't know what a seppo is
but your butthurt concerns were addressed in that thread
just saying
Yes you got me. Work, family, my health, my financial future, the environment, war and injustice doesnt concern me. But your opinion does.
Oh yeah. Seppois short for septic tank which is what aussie soldiers used to call white us soldiers in ww2. Some to do with being full of shit I believe ;)
so wait a second
you're whining about people saying things about Australians
but then use an extremely derogatory slur directed at americans?
u da seppo on that one bro
who said im rattled bro? how can I be rattled when i'm more hip hop than you?
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Once again, as was the case in the old thread I linked to, the point is being missed here. It's not really anything to do with where someone comes from, or whether or not their background or ethnicity invalidates their opinion. It's more about the zeal with which they embrace, evangelise and occasionally proscribe on behalf of a particular, very rigid and inflexible set of aesthetic values, and their belief that by extension this supposedly leads to a deeper, more "authentic", understanding of hip-hop - the "correct" understanding of it. You know the kind of thing I mean - has the music been made using the "proper" equipment? Are they sampling from original vinyl? Are the records they're sampling obscure enough? Have they been sampled before? Are there r&b hooks? Is the rapper signed to a major label? Is the rapper wearing skinny jeans (seriously, you would not fucking BELIEVE how steamed-up people get over that one), and the checklist goes on and on. There are people in the US like this, of course - scan the Twitter feeds of any number of veteran rappers and you'll probably read something similar. Certainly, that attitude is present and correct in the comments section of that FF post.
HOWEVER...that said, you can be the most broad-minded, knowledgeable and fastidious scholar of hip-hop imaginable, but if you're not there on the ground where and when it's happening, then THERE IS NO AVOIDING THE FACT that you're missing something very important - context. In the absence of that context, what seems to happen outside America - which, for better or worse, sets the standards and always will - is that listeners/audiences create their own. The UK music press, for example, is still working from the position that Nation Of Millions-era PE was the high-water mark of the artform, and subsequently therefore everything is measured in accordance with how it stacks up against PE (even though they haven't made a truly great record in over twenty years). If there's no explicit political dimension, then it's usually ignored, unless it's too big to ignore (Jay, Kanye, Em) or there's a morality angle for the self-righteous (Odd Future generally, the recent Rick Ross hoo-ha). Then you've got those people who set themselves up as custodians of things that not many people care about all that much; go too deep down that rabbit-hole and you end up making public declarations that Outkast can't rap, because you've become hopelessly fixated on the idea that there is only One True Way and everything you say or do or make or listen to has to meet the standards of that position. If it doesn't, you must deny it. Failure to deny it means your integrity is called into question, because you are insufficiently Reppin' Tha Real. Stances like these - the only good hip-hop is "political" hip-hop, SP1200s + dusties + super-scientifical lyrically lyrical SKILLZ = that real shit - are essentially artificial constructs. As ways of looking at hip-hop, I suppose they're as valid as any, although they're of no real interest to me personally. As the proper way of looking at hip-hop...well, sorry, but fuck that.
Maybe Robbie Ettelson feels the way to distinguish himself amongst rap bloggers nowadays is to become a kind of Rap Game Grandpa Simpson/YouTube comments guy/get-off-my-lawn kind of figure, occasionally aiming shots at the odd sacred cow (contrarianism being a big crowd-pleaser nowadays) and generally positioning himself in opposition to the prevailing orthodoxy. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, unless you try to insist that it's the world and not you that's out of step. For instance, if you're going to declare that "rap sucks right now", yet you don't actually listen to anything being made right now (unless it's in accordance with a specific set of rules), then frankly you forgo the right to be taken seriously on the topic. I don't need someone with a complete Wild Pitch collection, limited-edition Dunks and a chinstrap beard telling me Waka's got no lyrics. I don't listen to Waka for the lyrics, I listen for the energy. And there's greater creativity and more of a genuinely progressive approach evident in any number of recent trapper/d-boy beats than there is in something like Unorthodox by Joey Bada$$ (the most inappropriately-named rap song of the last 12 months). When Unkut publishes stuff like that T-Ray piece, or the kind of things that result in rap luminaries of yore scrapping in the comments section, count me in. Otherwise I'm about as interested in someone tilting against 20-year-old windmills on there as I would be on here.
I naively thought this thread would be about Freestyle Fellowship, because I know there are strutteurs who feel a personal connection to their music and the scene that they were part of. I now know never to use the A-word in a post.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Snapping said:
I naively thought this thread would be about Freestyle Fellowship, because I know there are strutteurs who feel a personal connection to their music and the scene that they were part of. I now know never to use the A-word in a post.
It's just not worth jumping to defend Fellowship against someone who clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Like not even close to knowing what he's talking about. And it's too easy to blame that on him being too young and too Australian.
The interviews on Unkut are some of the best knowledge that the internets contain on rap music (read the Silver Fox interview for just one truly outstanding example), but every time dude bigs up some modern day music or discusses current rap in any context it's cringeworthy.
Yeah, this.
The general rule for Unkut is to read the interviews, because they are superb, but skip any opinion pieces.
I naively thought this thread would be about Freestyle Fellowship, because I know there are strutteurs who feel a personal connection to their music and the scene that they were part of. I now know never to use the A-word in a post.
It's just not worth jumping to defend Fellowship against someone who clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Like not even close to knowing what he's talking about. And it's too easy to blame that on him being too young and too Australian.
You refering to me or Robbie? Cause if you read my posts youd see im a FF fan so are lots of Australian dudes. Which is one of the points i was making. Nowhere on here do I agree with the unkut article. And Snapping - your post didnt seem to be inviting FF friends/fans to discuss or even offer much if your views. You were dissing Robbie opinion (which is fine) but did it in a weak way imo by basically saying he is wrong cause hes aussie rather than attack the flaws in his argument. You seem to assume no one from australia could 'get' what FF were doing which is bs because as i pointed out lots of ppl here did get into FF. For fuck sake i used to dance (albeit in a non funky way) to Hot Potato at local parties when i was a teenager.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Gibbo said:
This thread inspired me to throw on Blowout Combs. I liked it more than I remembered doing so...
Pretty sure Robbie writes those pieces to stir the pot.. He gets crazy amounts of eyeball views with things like this, which in turn translates to advertising dollars, twiiter followers, back links, and hate mail - which are ALL desirable when you're a blogger..
Comments
but your butthurt concerns were addressed in that thread
just saying
Why would you think they wouldnt be mine?
So you dont like Digable Planets?
To be honest I have no idea what you were trying to say with your post except placing someone elses quote as mine. Maybe i dont have the cultural nuanced to get your joke. Or maybe the shit just aint funny
Yes you got me. Work, family, my health, my financial future, the environment, war and injustice doesnt concern me. But your opinion does.
Oh yeah. Seppois short for septic tank which is what aussie soldiers used to call white us soldiers in ww2. Some to do with being full of shit I believe ;)
I just pulled out what I think is an example of Coffee-House Rap. I wasnt trying to diss anyone here.
you're whining about people saying things about Australians
but then use an extremely derogatory slur directed at americans?
u da seppo on that one bro
U Da Seppo Bro. That would be a great name for a coffee house rap album.
And its not a term for ALL americans just ones like you (although I reckon your full of more than just shit...)
HOWEVER...that said, you can be the most broad-minded, knowledgeable and fastidious scholar of hip-hop imaginable, but if you're not there on the ground where and when it's happening, then THERE IS NO AVOIDING THE FACT that you're missing something very important - context. In the absence of that context, what seems to happen outside America - which, for better or worse, sets the standards and always will - is that listeners/audiences create their own. The UK music press, for example, is still working from the position that Nation Of Millions-era PE was the high-water mark of the artform, and subsequently therefore everything is measured in accordance with how it stacks up against PE (even though they haven't made a truly great record in over twenty years). If there's no explicit political dimension, then it's usually ignored, unless it's too big to ignore (Jay, Kanye, Em) or there's a morality angle for the self-righteous (Odd Future generally, the recent Rick Ross hoo-ha). Then you've got those people who set themselves up as custodians of things that not many people care about all that much; go too deep down that rabbit-hole and you end up making public declarations that Outkast can't rap, because you've become hopelessly fixated on the idea that there is only One True Way and everything you say or do or make or listen to has to meet the standards of that position. If it doesn't, you must deny it. Failure to deny it means your integrity is called into question, because you are insufficiently Reppin' Tha Real. Stances like these - the only good hip-hop is "political" hip-hop, SP1200s + dusties + super-scientifical lyrically lyrical SKILLZ = that real shit - are essentially artificial constructs. As ways of looking at hip-hop, I suppose they're as valid as any, although they're of no real interest to me personally. As the proper way of looking at hip-hop...well, sorry, but fuck that.
Maybe Robbie Ettelson feels the way to distinguish himself amongst rap bloggers nowadays is to become a kind of Rap Game Grandpa Simpson/YouTube comments guy/get-off-my-lawn kind of figure, occasionally aiming shots at the odd sacred cow (contrarianism being a big crowd-pleaser nowadays) and generally positioning himself in opposition to the prevailing orthodoxy. There's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, unless you try to insist that it's the world and not you that's out of step. For instance, if you're going to declare that "rap sucks right now", yet you don't actually listen to anything being made right now (unless it's in accordance with a specific set of rules), then frankly you forgo the right to be taken seriously on the topic. I don't need someone with a complete Wild Pitch collection, limited-edition Dunks and a chinstrap beard telling me Waka's got no lyrics. I don't listen to Waka for the lyrics, I listen for the energy. And there's greater creativity and more of a genuinely progressive approach evident in any number of recent trapper/d-boy beats than there is in something like Unorthodox by Joey Bada$$ (the most inappropriately-named rap song of the last 12 months). When Unkut publishes stuff like that T-Ray piece, or the kind of things that result in rap luminaries of yore scrapping in the comments section, count me in. Otherwise I'm about as interested in someone tilting against 20-year-old windmills on there as I would be on here.
It's just not worth jumping to defend Fellowship against someone who clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Like not even close to knowing what he's talking about. And it's too easy to blame that on him being too young and too Australian.
Yeah, this.
The general rule for Unkut is to read the interviews, because they are superb, but skip any opinion pieces.
This article is moronic. I still love FF to this day and will play Innercity Griots in a display of righteous rage against the Australian continent.
(I'm talkin' about physical Project Blowed that you hear, I am not talkin' about no motherf*ckin' GZA.)
You refering to me or Robbie? Cause if you read my posts youd see im a FF fan so are lots of Australian dudes. Which is one of the points i was making. Nowhere on here do I agree with the unkut article. And Snapping - your post didnt seem to be inviting FF friends/fans to discuss or even offer much if your views. You were dissing Robbie opinion (which is fine) but did it in a weak way imo by basically saying he is wrong cause hes aussie rather than attack the flaws in his argument. You seem to assume no one from australia could 'get' what FF were doing which is bs because as i pointed out lots of ppl here did get into FF. For fuck sake i used to dance (albeit in a non funky way) to Hot Potato at local parties when i was a teenager.
It's an epidemic.
FYI.. Digable Planets.. always..
James Branch Cabell
Come with something better than Pato Banton's Hello Tosh or don't come at all.
bad rapping + Julian Assange singing = WTF AUSTRALIA