i feel bad for her loss, but parading and grandstanding the way she is, is in just as bad taste as bush using 911 to go to war in the first place.
i was'nt trying to make a similie between she and bush. I was just saying that both are in bad taste. One more than the other, obviously, but it does come off a little hypocritical to use the same "hurt child" tactics to gain support.
no, but when you enter the army, you know that if there's a combat situation, you're at risk. people in armies have been fighting and dying way before iraq. i feel bad for her loss, but parading and grandstanding the way she is, is in just as bad taste as bush using 911 to go to war in the first place.
Sorry, but not everyone knows that joining the army will get you killed for the stupid whims of a few power-hungry idealogues. Some people still believe in military service as just that- a *service* to their country- not a disservice to their country and the world. That distinction certainly justifies protest, bad taste (?) or not.
I do agree, however, that much like domestic police officers, you have to accept the risk that you could be killed in the line of duty. That's a lot to ask 18 year olds, many of whom have few other viable options[/b] , however.
But it is def part of the job.
Birdman, you're really on point with your observations..Do most of you think that a lot of folks who enlist in the Armed Services would still do it if they had other options (college, employment, etc,.)? Obviously, no. The only reason that I signed up was for college money (which I do plan to use). Trust me, if I had the dough, I wouldn't even of hollared at the recruiters...
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
no, but when you enter the army, you know that if there's a combat situation, you're at risk. people in armies have been fighting and dying way before iraq. i feel bad for her loss, but parading and grandstanding the way she is, is in just as bad taste as bush using 911 to go to war in the first place.
Sorry, but not everyone knows that joining the army will get you killed for the stupid whims of a few power-hungry idealogues. Some people still believe in military service as just that- a *service* to their country- not a disservice to their country and the world. That distinction certainly justifies protest, bad taste (?) or not.
I do agree, however, that much like domestic police officers, you have to accept the risk that you could be killed in the line of duty. That's a lot to ask 18 year olds, many of whom have few other viable options[/b] , however.
But it is def part of the job.
Birdman, you're really on point with your observations..Do most of you think that a lot of folks who enlist in the Armed Services would still do it if they had other options (college, employment, etc,.)? Obviously, no. The only reason that I signed up was for college money (which I do plan to use). Trust me, if I had the dough, I wouldn't even of hollared at the recruiters...
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
I think she is the only one with her credentials(son killed in the conflict) willing to go into these situations and take the point. Seriously, as I watched her speak on Saturday at the concert on the mall, with her shaky, kind of whiny voice, I felt exactly the same way you do, D. I wish she was a more powerful speaker, articulate, etc. But in the end, she is what she looks and sounds like, a kind of goofy baby boomer mom who has found a singular purpose where others are probably too tired and too overwhelmed to brace themselves for a full on assault from the administration and their supporters. And I have to give her credit for determmination, and plus I believe her cause is just even if her methods are outdated and even counter-productive. I believe the administrations cause is NOT JUST, while I admire their ruthless efficiency in furthering it.
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
Who would you rather have representing this allegedly serious war opposition. The organizers at ANSWER, who have made common cause with Castro and apologists for Kim Jong Il. Perhaps you would like Medea Benjamin, founder of Code Pink, getting more attention. She failed to grab many headlines when she led a group of human shields to Iraq. Maybe you would like those groups that have led cheers of "Martyrs not murderers," at the anti-Israel rallies held on protest weekend.
Sheehan's arrest was lifted from a time honored tactic of civil disobedience. She deliberately violated trespass laws and refused to leave when asked by the police. It has been done since Roger Williams founded Rhode Island in the 17th century. She wanted to be arrested, so I see no reason why she shouldn't be smiling that the cops granted her wish. More important, Sheehan is a far more palatable spokesman for this shabby coalition of frauds than any of the full time organizers. She is a former member of Gold Star Families, a pro-Iraq war outfit who was radicalized by the murder of her son. Her outrage is seemed justified by most Americans, as opposed to many of the organizers who have been outraged all along. Sheehan reminds most Americans of their neighbors, as opposed to other leaders of this movement who remind most Americans of their enemies, and with good reason.
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
She's the face of the movement partly by default, partly coz she can smile like a housewife. If she looked pissed, the media, and plenty on this board would paint her as a feminazi who won't just stop at ending the war, she'll create partial birth abortion on demand, teach our children how to be homosexual, and burn the flag every morning. That's about the level of political discourse in this country in general. This is why we are soooooooo fucked.
I believe the administrations cause is NOT JUST, while I admire their ruthless efficiency in furthering it.
that's kinda what i was saying. it almost seems carl rovian to have her as the spokesperson for the left. no charisma, and low self esteem will not work well in the american media. sad but true.
Sheehan reminds most Americans of their neighbors, as opposed to other leaders of this movement who remind most Americans of their enemies, and with good reason.
no, but when you enter the army, you know that if there's a combat situation, you're at risk. people in armies have been fighting and dying way before iraq. i feel bad for her loss, but parading and grandstanding the way she is, is in just as bad taste as bush using 911 to go to war in the first place.
Sorry, but not everyone knows that joining the army will get you killed for the stupid whims of a few power-hungry idealogues. Some people still believe in military service as just that- a *service* to their country- not a disservice to their country and the world. That distinction certainly justifies protest, bad taste (?) or not.
I do agree, however, that much like domestic police officers, you have to accept the risk that you could be killed in the line of duty. That's a lot to ask 18 year olds, many of whom have few other viable options, however.
But it is def part of the job.
Sure. But again, how many domestic police officers are put in situations remotely like Iraq, and with such head-up-the-ass leadership? Soldiers joined the National Guard expecting a certain degree of risk, but how many expected to be fighting oversees in this 'war'?
As a US citizen, living in NYC, I have to accept the given risk of 'living in America" during a time of "heightened security" etc. All of the military's misguided dis-service in Iraq is failing to 'spread liberty' and making life in the US riskier. It's part of the job of citizens to accept the risk of being an American in an anti-American world.
I kinda wish I would not have posted in this thread.
I just thought it was fucked up hearing people call someone who lost their child a "tool" or whatever. I don't put Sheehan on a pedestal either, and yes some of her actions may be annoying/questionable/whatever. But Delay, having you tell me what to tell my children and being so dismissive and smug about really pisses me off. I seriously hope that 'leveling the playing field' was worth it.
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
Who would you rather have representing this allegedly serious war opposition. The organizers at ANSWER, who have made common cause with Castro and apologists for Kim Jong Il. Perhaps you would like Medea Benjamin, founder of Code Pink, getting more attention. She failed to grab many headlines when she led a group of human shields to Iraq. Maybe you would like those groups that have led cheers of "Martyrs not murderers," at the anti-Israel rallies held on protest weekend.
Sheehan's arrest was lifted from a time honored tactic of civil disobedience. She deliberately violated trespass laws and refused to leave when asked by the police. It has been done since Roger Williams founded Rhode Island in the 17th century. She wanted to be arrested, so I see no reason why she shouldn't be smiling that the cops granted her wish. More important, Sheehan is a far more palatable spokesman for this shabby coalition of frauds than any of the full time organizers. She is a former member of Gold Star Families, a pro-Iraq war outfit who was radicalized by the murder of her son. Her outrage is seemed justified by most Americans, as opposed to many of the organizers who have been outraged all along. Sheehan reminds most Americans of their neighbors, as opposed to other leaders of this movement who remind most Americans of their enemies, and with good reason.
Look man, all I'm saying is that it's a damn shame that it's her. Civil disobediance is most definitely a time honored tradition of protest. But it don't help when it looks like you're having the time of your life. A parapalegic soldier being carried off by police, for example, probably would have been a bit more moving.
Who would you rather have representing this allegedly serious war opposition. The organizers at ANSWER, who have made common cause with Castro and apologists for Kim Jong Il. Perhaps you would like Medea Benjamin, founder of Code Pink, getting more attention. She failed to grab many headlines when she led a group of human shields to Iraq. Maybe you would like those groups that have led cheers of "Martyrs not murderers," at the anti-Israel rallies held on protest weekend.
Sheehan's arrest was lifted from a time honored tactic of civil disobedience. She deliberately violated trespass laws and refused to leave when asked by the police. It has been done since Roger Williams founded Rhode Island in the 17th century. She wanted to be arrested, so I see no reason why she shouldn't be smiling that the cops granted her wish. More important, Sheehan is a far more palatable spokesman for this shabby coalition of frauds than any of the full time organizers. She is a former member of Gold Star Families, a pro-Iraq war outfit who was radicalized by the murder of her son. Her outrage is seemed justified by most Americans, as opposed to many of the organizers who have been outraged all along. Sheehan reminds most Americans of their neighbors, as opposed to other leaders of this movement who remind most Americans of their enemies, and with good reason.
Do you really think that America should consider the majority of leaders of the anti-war movement as enemies? For the most part, as far as I can tell at least, they are pretty impotent.
That said, I think that's a pretty accurate assessment of the Sheehan situation, at least in terms of the political chess game we're currently playing.
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
What's so puzzling to me is that I keep thinking of what would happen if I was killed over there and my mother started protesting like Sheehan. I can guarantee that she wouldn't be smiling, as she was being whisked away by the police.
Delay, having you tell me what to tell my children and being so dismissive and smug about really pisses me off. I seriously hope that 'leveling the playing field' was worth it.
It's all good mayne. I don't know why I got so vexed about that, I guess being a parent brings out some different feelings in a person. I know what you were trying to say.
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
Who would you rather have representing this allegedly serious war opposition. The organizers at ANSWER, who have made common cause with Castro and apologists for Kim Jong Il. Perhaps you would like Medea Benjamin, founder of Code Pink, getting more attention. She failed to grab many headlines when she led a group of human shields to Iraq. Maybe you would like those groups that have led cheers of "Martyrs not murderers," at the anti-Israel rallies held on protest weekend.
Sheehan's arrest was lifted from a time honored tactic of civil disobedience. She deliberately violated trespass laws and refused to leave when asked by the police. It has been done since Roger Williams founded Rhode Island in the 17th century. She wanted to be arrested, so I see no reason why she shouldn't be smiling that the cops granted her wish. More important, Sheehan is a far more palatable spokesman for this shabby coalition of frauds than any of the full time organizers. She is a former member of Gold Star Families, a pro-Iraq war outfit who was radicalized by the murder of her son. Her outrage is seemed justified by most Americans, as opposed to many of the organizers who have been outraged all along. Sheehan reminds most Americans of their neighbors, as opposed to other leaders of this movement who remind most Americans of their enemies, and with good reason.
You sound just like this guy....
...who's starting to sound like this guy...
....while enabling these guys...
...who would liket o crush this woman like a bug...
...who's smiling because every time her name is bashed in the press (facilitated by folks like you), the world is reminded how badly these guys...
...have FUCKED EVERYTHING UP....
post edited to restore picture of Stewie Griffin...
She wanted to be arrested, so I see no reason why she shouldn't be smiling that the cops granted her wish.
You don't protest and engage in civil disobediance just to get arrested. The point is to send a message, right? Well, a giggling housewife blowing kisses does indeed send a message. In this case it wasn't particularly helpful or persuasive.
What was her son's reason to join the army? I don't think it was a money thing. From the rest of the family it sounds like a sense of duty thing, am I wrong?
If so, isn't she in doing this, disrespecting her son and his choice?
What was her son's reason to join the army? I don't think it was a money thing. From the rest of the family it sounds like a sense of duty thing, am I wrong?
If so, isn't she in doing this, disrespecting her son and his choice?
Hmmmmmmm... these two ass-clowns have been fucking this country for almost 6 years, and yet they don't get half the criticism (or have their motivations questioned as much) as Cindy Sheehan. A woman who is trying to stop the war in which her son was killed.
these two ass-clowns have been fucking this country for almost 6 years, and yet they don't get half the criticism (or have their motivations questioned as much) as Cindy Sheehan.
Say what? Bush & Cheney don't receive half the criticism as Sheehan?
these two ass-clowns have been fucking this country for almost 6 years, and yet they don't get half the criticism (or have their motivations questioned as much) as Cindy Sheehan.
Say what? Bush & Cheney don't receive half the criticism as Sheehan?
They get criticized but not hardly enough[/b], IMO.
these two ass-clowns have been fucking this country for almost 6 years, and yet they don't get half the criticism (or have their motivations questioned as much) as Cindy Sheehan.
Say what? Bush & Cheney don't receive half the criticism as Sheehan?
Not on any proportinal level (especially not in the "mainstream" media, where all of the Sheehan bashing originates - or is at least passed down to from the Roves of the world). Giggling? I have yet to see a Bush or Cheney (especially Cheney) speak where he didn't have a patronizing smirk on his mug.
If you don't like the war, and you don't like the "face" of the anti-war movement, get out there and give it a new one.
What was her son's reason to join the army? I don't think it was a money thing. From the rest of the family it sounds like a sense of duty thing, am I wrong?
If so, isn't she in doing this, disrespecting her son and his choice?
Hmmmmmmm... these two ass-clowns have been fucking this country for almost 6 years, and yet they don't get half the criticism (or have their motivations questioned as much) as Cindy Sheehan. A woman who is trying to stop the war in which her son was killed.
Fucked up priorities...
Thats not the question tho... We are talking about his choice with his life.
And I don't think you are correct about the criticism deal... Millions curse their names every day.
Thats not the question tho... We are talking about his choice with his life.
And who knows better what that choice was? You or his mother?
Well, from the little I've read, alot of the family says a different story. And I'm guessing that if he didn't do it for money/college he had a different reason.
I'm not here trying to debate you on someones death. I'm just trying to understand better. Since, I know if I had made a choice to join the army out of my own beliefs, I would hope my mother would not use me as a symbol of something I didn't agree with.
IMO she can fight for whatever cause she believes in tho, so if thats what she needs to do, to help her deal with her sons death. More power to her.
Thats not the question tho... We are talking about his choice with his life.
And who knows better what that choice was? You or his mother?
Well, from the little I've read, alot of the family says a different story. And I'm guessing that if he didn't do it for money/college he had a different reason.
I'm not here trying to debate you on someones death. I'm just trying to understand better. Since, I know if I had made a choice to join the army out of my own beliefs, I would hope my mother would not use me as a symbol of something I didn't agree with.
IMO she can fight for whatever cause she believes in tho, so if thats what she needs to do, to help her deal with her sons death. More power to her.
Keep in mind too, that there are people that have claimed to speak for her son, who apparently had little or nothing to do with him in real life (i.e. somewhat distant relatives), who were more interested in looking like "patriots" than considering the feelings of his grieving mother, not to mention Bush-boosters who'd like to assassinate her character as thoroughly as possible:
Comments
Some would still do it, but probably not most.
Seriously. How the hell did this woman become the face of the opposition to the war? Having a picture like this in newspapers and on the evening news does not exactly portray a serious, grave opposition to the war. I mean shit, couldn't you at least look like you're upset while you're being carried away by the police? Once again, no disrespect to her. I'm just annoyed that it's her face that I keep seeing everywhere.
I think she is the only one with her credentials(son killed in the conflict) willing to go into these situations and take the point. Seriously, as I watched her speak on Saturday at the concert on the mall, with her shaky, kind of whiny voice, I felt exactly the same way you do, D. I wish she was a more powerful speaker, articulate, etc. But in the end, she is what she looks and sounds like, a kind of goofy baby boomer mom who has found a singular purpose where others are probably too tired and too overwhelmed to brace themselves for a full on assault from the administration and their supporters. And I have to give her credit for determmination, and plus I believe her cause is just even if her methods are outdated and even counter-productive. I believe the administrations cause is NOT JUST, while I admire their ruthless efficiency in furthering it.
What a fucked up world we live in right now.
Who would you rather have representing this allegedly serious war opposition. The organizers at ANSWER, who have made common cause with Castro and apologists for Kim Jong Il. Perhaps you would like Medea Benjamin, founder of Code Pink, getting more attention. She failed to grab many headlines when she led a group of human shields to Iraq. Maybe you would like those groups that have led cheers of "Martyrs not murderers," at the anti-Israel rallies held on protest weekend.
Sheehan's arrest was lifted from a time honored tactic of civil disobedience. She deliberately violated trespass laws and refused to leave when asked by the police. It has been done since Roger Williams founded Rhode Island in the 17th century. She wanted to be arrested, so I see no reason why she shouldn't be smiling that the cops granted her wish. More important, Sheehan is a far more palatable spokesman for this shabby coalition of frauds than any of the full time organizers. She is a former member of Gold Star Families, a pro-Iraq war outfit who was radicalized by the murder of her son. Her outrage is seemed justified by most Americans, as opposed to many of the organizers who have been outraged all along. Sheehan reminds most Americans of their neighbors, as opposed to other leaders of this movement who remind most Americans of their enemies, and with good reason.
She's the face of the movement partly by default, partly coz she can smile like a housewife. If she looked pissed, the media, and plenty on this board would paint her as a feminazi who won't just stop at ending the war, she'll create partial birth abortion on demand, teach our children how to be homosexual, and burn the flag every morning. That's about the level of political discourse in this country in general. This is why we are soooooooo fucked.
And there we have it.
Sure. But again, how many domestic police officers are put in situations remotely like Iraq, and with such head-up-the-ass leadership? Soldiers joined the National Guard expecting a certain degree of risk, but how many expected to be fighting oversees in this 'war'?
As a US citizen, living in NYC, I have to accept the given risk of 'living in America" during a time of "heightened security" etc. All of the military's misguided dis-service in Iraq is failing to 'spread liberty' and making life in the US riskier. It's part of the job of citizens to accept the risk of being an American in an anti-American world.
I just thought it was fucked up hearing people call someone who lost their child a "tool" or whatever. I don't put Sheehan on a pedestal either, and yes some of her actions may be annoying/questionable/whatever. But Delay, having you tell me what to tell my children and being so dismissive and smug about really pisses me off. I seriously hope that 'leveling the playing field' was worth it.
Look man, all I'm saying is that it's a damn shame that it's her. Civil disobediance is most definitely a time honored tradition of protest. But it don't help when it looks like you're having the time of your life. A parapalegic soldier being carried off by police, for example, probably would have been a bit more moving.
That said, I think that's a pretty accurate assessment of the Sheehan situation, at least in terms of the political chess game we're currently playing.
It's all good mayne. I don't know why I got so vexed about that, I guess being a parent brings out some different feelings in a person. I know what you were trying to say.
I'm stayin' out of political threads today
You sound just like this guy....
...who's starting to sound like this guy...
....while enabling these guys...
...who would liket o crush this woman like a bug...
...who's smiling because every time her name is bashed in the press (facilitated by folks like you), the world is reminded how badly these guys...
...have FUCKED EVERYTHING UP....
post edited to restore picture of Stewie Griffin...
You don't protest and engage in civil disobediance just to get arrested. The point is to send a message, right? Well, a giggling housewife blowing kisses does indeed send a message. In this case it wasn't particularly helpful or persuasive.
What was her son's reason to join the army? I don't think it was a money thing. From the rest of the family it sounds like a sense of duty thing, am I wrong?
If so, isn't she in doing this, disrespecting her son and his choice?
Hmmmmmmm...
these two ass-clowns have been fucking this country for almost 6 years, and yet they don't get half the criticism (or have their motivations questioned as much) as Cindy Sheehan. A woman who is trying to stop the war in which her son was killed.
Fucked up priorities...
Say what? Bush & Cheney don't receive half the criticism as Sheehan?
Not on any proportinal level (especially not in the "mainstream" media, where all of the Sheehan bashing originates - or is at least passed down to from the Roves of the world).
Giggling? I have yet to see a Bush or Cheney (especially Cheney) speak where he didn't have a patronizing smirk on his mug.
If you don't like the war, and you don't like the "face" of the anti-war movement, get out there and give it a new one.
Thats not the question tho... We are talking about his choice with his life.
And I don't think you are correct about the criticism deal... Millions curse their names every day.
And who knows better what that choice was? You or his mother?
Well, from the little I've read, alot of the family says a different story. And I'm guessing that if he didn't do it for money/college he had a different reason.
I'm not here trying to debate you on someones death. I'm just trying to understand better. Since, I know if I had made a choice to join the army out of my own beliefs, I would hope my mother would not use me as a symbol of something I didn't agree with.
IMO she can fight for whatever cause she believes in tho, so if thats what she needs to do, to help her deal with her sons death. More power to her.
Keep in mind too, that there are people that have claimed to speak for her son, who apparently had little or nothing to do with him in real life (i.e. somewhat distant relatives), who were more interested in looking like "patriots" than considering the feelings of his grieving mother, not to mention Bush-boosters who'd like to assassinate her character as thoroughly as possible:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/sheehan.asp
what I meant was that she is being used. you know, like a tool.