Smashing Pumpkins - Yay or Nay?

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  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Frank said:
    I apologize for having been a dick but the rise of grunge coincided with the demise of most of the bands/music I loved so somehow I blamed grunge for ruining rock music for me. Other than that it would have just been boring music which isn't really anything special or worthy of much hate or aggravation. Plus I was in a foul mood cause some asshole farmer upriver must have sprayed his crops yesterday and all of my crawfish died and the kois were acting weird and refused to feed. Now they just started swimming around and eating again but I'm still mad as hell about all the dead mudbugs. Fucking Ticos and their love for insecticides.

    Eddie Van Halen single handedly killed rock music.

  • PlantweedPlantweed 394 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    And Nirvana was doing the same kind of long complex songs with lots of parts?

    Uh, no, their songwriting was quite conventional.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Rockadelic said:


    Eddie Van Halen single handedly killed rock music.

    NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

    Y'all think I'm too eager to defend Smashing Pumpkins/Nirvana/Grunge...

    Van Halen is nots to be fucked with on my watch.

    I mean, go ahead and get your ya-ya's out on Van Hagar (I can understand that despite liking some of their songs).

    But the first 4 Van Halen albums are unfuckwittable and that's all there is to it.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    See? We don't suck! We are here for your amusement!

    :happyday:

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    Plantweed said:
    LaserWolf said:
    And Nirvana was doing the same kind of long complex songs with lots of parts?

    Uh, no, their songwriting was quite conventional.

    I'll get clonned for saying this, but I think Kurt was a very good pop song writer and singer and that's why Nevermind was huge. It's not really Punk or even Grunge, it's an album chock full of radio hits done in a rawish hard rock style. It's not unlike the first Cars record which was a bunch of radio hits done in 'New Wave' style.

    To me it's obvious why Nirvana hit it big and the other bands from that scene didn't - Kurt was a better pop song writer than anybody in those other bands. I'm not saying I like them better (more of a Melvins guy myself), but their success was hardly an arbitrary thing.

    Fun fact/Full disclosure: I was the only member of my former band who was not asked to join Nirvana.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    Plantweed said:
    LaserWolf said:
    And Nirvana was doing the same kind of long complex songs with lots of parts?

    Uh, no, their songwriting was quite conventional.

    I'll get clonned for saying this, but I think Kurt was a very good pop song writer and singer and that's why Nevermind was huge. It's not really Punk or even Grunge, it's an album chock full of radio hits done in a rawish hard rock style. It's not unlike the first Cars record which was a bunch of radio hits done in 'New Wave' style.

    To me it's obvious why Nirvana hit it big and the other bands from that scene didn't - Kurt was a better pop song writer than anybody in those other bands. I'm not saying I like them better (more of a Melvins guy myself), but their success was hardly an arbitrary thing.

    Fun fact/Full disclosure: I was the only member of my former band who was not asked to join Nirvana.

    That's all fair. But I still gotta say that to a core audience which was huge in its open right, Nirvana first blew up via Bleach. Then Butch Vig came in and made them more accessible to a wider audience via Nevermind which I agree isn't really either a punk or grunge album. Of course that formula worked beyond anyone's imagination.

    I've also found it interesting in retrospect to see how cheesy a band Dave Grohl would go onto past Nirvana. I understand that he had punk cred pre-Nirvana, but I don't get how certain people can bitch about Kurt selling out at the same time they are drinking a triple mocha latte to the sounds of Foo Fighters at Starbucks.

    Or worse, they complain about Nirvana as if they were no big deal while still liking (or ever liking for that matter) Pearl Jam.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    I'd say Grunge was Rock's last big "ism".

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    Rockadelic said:


    Eddie Van Halen single handedly killed rock music.

    NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

    Y'all think I'm too eager to defend Smashing Pumpkins/Nirvana/Grunge...

    Van Halen is nots to be fucked with on my watch.

    I mean, go ahead and get your ya-ya's out on Van Hagar (I can understand that despite liking some of their songs).

    But the first 4 Van Halen albums are unfuckwittable and that's all there is to it.

    Don't get me wrong...Van Halen was a great band...their first few LP's are great...I even like DLR

    But that bullshit musical masturbation Eddie did on his guitar which every kid on earth tried to copy created demons like Steve Vai/Malmsteen/Satriani and was definitely the death of Rock & Roll!

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    HarveyCanal said:
    Rockadelic said:


    Eddie Van Halen single handedly killed rock music.

    NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

    Y'all think I'm too eager to defend Smashing Pumpkins/Nirvana/Grunge...

    Van Halen is nots to be fucked with on my watch.

    I mean, go ahead and get your ya-ya's out on Van Hagar (I can understand that despite liking some of their songs).

    But the first 4 Van Halen albums are unfuckwittable and that's all there is to it.

    Don't get me wrong...Van Halen was a great band...their first few LP's are great...I even like DLR

    But that bullshit musical masturbation Eddie did on his guitar which every kid on earth tried to copy created demons like Steve Vai/Malmsteen/Satriani and was definitely the death of Rock & Roll!

    I done said. Don't be talking down on Eruption.

  • FrankFrank 2,370 Posts
    Rockadelic said:
    HarveyCanal said:
    Rockadelic said:


    Eddie Van Halen single handedly killed rock music.

    NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

    Y'all think I'm too eager to defend Smashing Pumpkins/Nirvana/Grunge...

    Van Halen is nots to be fucked with on my watch.

    I mean, go ahead and get your ya-ya's out on Van Hagar (I can understand that despite liking some of their songs).

    But the first 4 Van Halen albums are unfuckwittable and that's all there is to it.

    Don't get me wrong...Van Halen was a great band...their first few LP's are great...I even like DLR

    But that bullshit musical masturbation Eddie did on his guitar which every kid on earth tried to copy created demons like Steve Vai/Malmsteen/Satriani and was definitely the death of Rock & Roll!

    I don't know... sometimes I'm having those rare moments of positivity when I think that it can't possibly be true that this was it with Rock & Roll...

    I think one of the main problems is that everybody's too focused on sampling and re-arranging and playing around with shit that's already been done and Grunge was the precedent for this. The first completely recycled youth culture that did not contain even the trace of anything new.

    All it would take is a bunch of teenagers getting together in a garage/basement, enough anger and creativity, the right drugs as a catalyst and bang, there's something! Yet, nothing ever happens. Which baffles me. Never has there been a more boring global music scene than right now. Kids growing up today are faced with the reality that they won't reach the same standard of living as their parents. Our "western" models of societies are clearly being exposed as a scam to a level where even the most ignorant have to realize they're being shafted and hung out wet. If that all isn't reason enough to be pissed off, shit on having a career and just rock out then what else? Maybe they're not being fed enough red meet and salt.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    I'd sooner hold cynicism and music nerds responsible for the 'death' of any genre than I would a shitty band that spawned a hundred other shitty bands.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    What followed grunge? Rap metal. That's what really made everyone decide to quit on rock music.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Frank said:
    All it would take is a bunch of teenagers getting together in a garage/basement, enough anger and creativity, the right drugs as a catalyst and bang, there's something! Yet, nothing ever happens. Which baffles me. Never has there been a more boring global music scene than right now. Kids growing up today are faced with the reality that they won't reach the same standard of living as their parents. Our "western" models of societies are clearly being exposed as a scam to a level where even the most ignorant have to realize they're being shafted and hung out wet. If that all isn't reason enough to be pissed off, shit on having a career and just rock out then what else? Maybe they're not being fed enough red meet and salt.

    There are too many other things to occupy the minds of the young today....mindless shit that doesn't require creativity.

    But every generation thinks their music was the shit and the next generations music is shit.

    Every single male rock musician I have ever spoken to, and there have been plenty, all say they got into music to get girls.

    Played the school dance or battle of the bands to impress the girls....and some progressed beyond that and tried to make a career out of it.

    How many Youtube hits does it take to get laid??

  • This just in!.... Disconnected old men decry current state of youth creativity on irrelevant internet forum.

    I blame the shitty drugs.


  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    What has anyone ever done that was new?

    All it takes to do something new is to channel teen angst in a way that communicates with teens filled with angst.
    As far as they are concerned they are listening to something new that old people could never understand.

    I think Frank is proof of the old people not understanding.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,517 Posts
    Rockadelic said:

    How many Youtube hits does it take to get laid??


  • PlantweedPlantweed 394 Posts
    Frank said:
    All it would take is a bunch of teenagers getting together in a garage/basement, enough anger and creativity, the right drugs as a catalyst and bang, there's something! Yet, nothing ever happens. Which baffles me. Never has there been a more boring global music scene than right now.

    Well, though not necessarily much of a teen phenomenon, the basement noise scene and alive and well and chock full of interesting sounds, though much of it isn't rock or even "music" per se. I've seen so many impressive and diverse bands come through the Burnt Hills house. And it's as underground as it gets.

  • FrankFrank 2,370 Posts
    Plantweed said:
    Frank said:
    All it would take is a bunch of teenagers getting together in a garage/basement, enough anger and creativity, the right drugs as a catalyst and bang, there's something! Yet, nothing ever happens. Which baffles me. Never has there been a more boring global music scene than right now.

    Well, though not necessarily much of a teen phenomenon, the basement noise scene and alive and well and chock full of interesting sounds, though much of it isn't rock or even "music" per se. I've seen so many impressive and diverse bands come through the Burnt Hills house. And it's as underground as it gets.

    I'm sure that for noise and experimental/avantgarde music there will always be new stuff, to me personally these genres are maybe a bit too academic. I was talking about rock that sure, nobody ever completely reinvented but the past 25 years have been very underwhelming. There have been some really good bands like Wooden Shjips or the Cave Singers etc but those were more exercises in style. Really good but not dangerous and no real sense of urgency. The Pissed Jeans got some serious hype from several of my friends but I never got to see them as I was living in Africa while they were considered to be hot.


  • parallaxparallax no-style-having mf'er 1,266 Posts
    volumen said:

    LOL! Holy shit!

  • Controller_7Controller_7 4,052 Posts
    If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that the pumpkins were lacking that ÔÇ£shockla-locka-boomÔÇØ


    "Tommy Lee has replaced Jimmy Chamberlin as the drummer for The Smashing Pumpkins. According to a post on the PumpkinsÔÇÖ website, the M├Âtley Cr├╝e drummer will bring his ÔÇ£shockla-locka-boomÔÇØ to ÔÇ£all nine songs of Monument To An Elegy,ÔÇØ one of the bandÔÇÖs two forthcoming LPs.

    ItÔÇÖs unclear whether Lee will perform on that second record, or whether heÔÇÖll tour with the Pumpkins at any point in the future. LeeÔÇÖs schedule would certainly seem to be clearing up soon: M├Âtley Cr├╝e embarks on its farewell tour this July, with the band having signed a legally binding ÔÇ£cessation of touringÔÇØ document earlier this year."

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    I ride for Motley Cru's first album like a mug. Then and now.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Controller_7 said:
    band having signed a legally binding ÔÇ£cessation of touringÔÇØ document

    lol - What is that about? Who would initiate this and why?

  • asstroasstro 1,754 Posts
    I think it's because Mick Mars is too old and ill to continue touring, but he wants to make sure they won't tour with another guitarist under the Crue name. I can kinda respect that. The first 2 Motley LPs are great records and I won't hear otherwise.

    In the spirit of full disclosure I will admit to really enjoying the first Pumpkins record when it came out, but I was already done with them by the time Siamese Dream came out.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    bassie said:
    Controller_7 said:
    band having signed a legally binding ÔÇ£cessation of touringÔÇØ document

    lol - What is that about? Who would initiate this and why?

    Basically to prevent a situation like happened with The Doors, where one or two OG members try to tour or take up residence in Vegas under the original name.

  • bluesnagbluesnag 1,285 Posts
    I like the first two Smashing Pumpkins albums, and I like the b-side comp Pisces Iscariot. It's hard for me to listen to a whole album in a row of theirs now but I still like the songs.

    I used to like Jane's Addiction, for sure. All 3 of their first albums, and then the first Porno for Pyros album. Then returning to them years later I just couldn't feel it anymore. Not sure why. Just couldn't listen.

    I do like Nirvana, and I agree that Cobain was a good songwriter. The worshipping is definitely overboard though, for sure. But I still listen to that stuff plenty and still enjoy a lot of it (I'm 38 by the way).

    I also like Soundgarden. I wasn't even into them back in the early 90s, but gave them a more serious listen in the last few years and liked them.

    Now, what about Alice in Chains? That's another band that I was not into in the early 90s, but I recently gave them a listen and liked them. I guess I did like Jar of Flies back then but that's about the only one I ever gave a listen.

  • ppadilhappadilha 2,241 Posts
    I remember thinking Blind Melon were pretty underrated BITD. It's been about 20 years since I listened to them though, I could be wrong about that.

    Never cared much for STP but I thought they were better than the average grunge band. Smashing Pumpkins I find bland and inoffensive, never understood how some people were so into them.

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    My favorite band from that era: Screaming Trees.

  • odDioodDio 5 Posts
    Bassie, you are awesome for mentioning Steel Pole Bathtub.

  • BeatChemistBeatChemist 1,465 Posts
    magpaul said:
    I know it's not cool to say Mellon Collie is their best album, but the first half of CD1 is timeless shit.

    May not be cool, but it's definitely true. There's some bunk in there for sure, but it has great song writing and covers a lot of moods and styles.

    Mellon Collie > Siamese Dream > Gish. Only three albums I rate.

    Siamese Dream is nostalgia music, because 1993 was the year that 12-year-old-me really got into music. The albums I discovered when I was 12-16 are always going to sound awesome to me. Doesn't matter how shitty they are in reality.

    I cannot stand Billy Corgan though. Dude seems like such a egomaniacal control freak.
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