It's predictable how it's the usual privileged-since-birth white guys who have a problem with this.
And I'm tired of society subsidizing the wages of underpaid fast food and Wal-Mart workers (among others) in order to enrich plutocrats and smug bourgeois dipshits. I'm all in favor of a strong social safety net but the growing wealth gap is this country's biggest problem.
Like you, I am a privileged-since-birth white guy.
I rarely eat fast food so I couldn't care less what the workers get paid or how their salary might increase the price of the food.
The last time I was in a McDonalds they had 8-10 employees working......my favorite Mom & Pop burger joint, which does a hell of a lot of business, never has more than 3 employees working at one time.
Even though I only eat fast food 5-6 times a year these "skilled workers" manage to get my order wrong about half the time......I never complain, I just shake my head and say "That's why they are working in "Fast Food".
Pay people shit and treat them like shit and they'll sometimes find ways to get even... like by screwing up orders, maybe.
There's a Burger King near me which is known locally as the place that never screws up an order. They're also known as the location with an older, stable work force that pays higher wages. I don't think those facts are unrelated.
I definitely hope these new strikes and moves towards organizing are here to stay.
To each their own...given this specific example (McD's wage)...I have a feeling a lot of the people fighting the good fight would make more progress for themselves if they spent their time differently.
Maybe they're not all as relentlessly selfish and self-involved as you seem to be. Some people (believe it or not) are willing to sacrifice some of their time and even some money in order to make life better for others.
I know, almost inconceivable, huh? Silly bastards should just employ your all-for-me philosophy and screw everyone else.
Smithers! Release the hounds!
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
JectWon said:
Jean-ClaudeBanDamned said:
Serious question...and I'm not trying to sound like a dick...
The problem is that we have a society that makes you feel like your life is worthless if you're not making $30 an hour.
There are not enough jobs available that pay a wage to support the way of life most people want to have. So all those people feel shitty about their whole life. Our sense of self worth is so tied to money and possessions, that the reality is life sucks for most people. Period.
Fix income equality and you would fix soooooo many of the country's problems. But it is a long, complex issue that people don't care about unless they are living it. As evidenced by this thread,
I definitely hope these new strikes and moves towards organizing are here to stay.
To each their own...given this specific example (McD's wage)...I have a feeling a lot of the people fighting the good fight would make more progress for themselves if they spent their time differently.
Maybe they're not all as relentlessly selfish and self-involved as you seem to be. Some people (believe it or not) are willing to sacrifice some of their time and even some money in order to make life better for others.
I know, almost inconceivable, huh? Silly bastards should just employ your all-for-me philosophy and screw everyone else.
Smithers! Release the hounds!
Well, considering I stated in this same thread that some strikes are 100% legit; the idea of making life better for others is totally conceivable to me when warranted. That doesn't mean that if one strike/protest is valid then they all are.
I don't believe in blanket generalizations..."almost inconveibable, huh?"...
Listen, I'm sure you're not nearly as much of a generalizing dude in person...perhaps the idea of civil conversation about a topic where people have a different opinion than you do isn't something that you do well in written form. No offense...like I said, I'm sure you're a swell and rational guy in person...but I think I'm going to ignore you from here on out.
I'm tapping out on this one...totally got me bro...epic flames, etc etc.
I definitely hope these new strikes and moves towards organizing are here to stay.
To each their own...given this specific example (McD's wage)...I have a feeling a lot of the people fighting the good fight would make more progress for themselves if they spent their time differently.
Maybe they're not all as relentlessly selfish and self-involved as you seem to be. Some people (believe it or not) are willing to sacrifice some of their time and even some money in order to make life better for others.
I know, almost inconceivable, huh? Silly bastards should just employ your all-for-me philosophy and screw everyone else.
Smithers! Release the hounds!
Well, considering I stated in this same thread that some strikes are 100% legit; the idea of making life better for others is totally conceivable to me when warranted. That doesn't mean that if one strike/protest is valid then they all are.
I don't believe in blanket generalizations..."almost inconveibable, huh?"...
Listen, I'm sure you're not nearly as much of a generalizing dude in person...perhaps the idea of civil conversation about a topic where people have a different opinion than you do isn't something that you do well in written form. No offense...like I said, I'm sure you're a swell and rational guy in person...but I think I'm going to ignore you from here on out.
I'm tapping out on this one...totally got me bro...epic flames, etc etc.
youve been here since 07 and u still think muthafuckas in this place can have a civil conversation?
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Chemical-filled fast foods should be outlawed. And I don't care what background you come from or how young you might be, you are a douche for working for any of those places. I mean, maybe doing douche work gets you through college or on to the next best job up the food chain, but still...if you are wearing a paper hat = douche.
Let's start with your silly idea that certain foods should be banned. Your mentor Ron Paul is very angry with you right now. How do you square your hatred of the government telling you what to do, with your call for a ban on FF? Oh yeah, it's because you're a total hypocrite.
Next, let's move on to your callous, insensitve and bogus critiicism that all people that work at fast food places are douches. Many of these people are struggling to make ends meet, have children, are married and don't have the time to go to college, or they didn't finish high school (for a plethora of reasons other than them being a douche). While FF is not a premier job, it can, and often does allow for those people that I described to obtain things like health insurance for themselves, their spouses and their children.
Also, FF is often more willing to hire people who have made mistakes in their past, like committing crimes, which gives them the dignity of work.
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
And then tie it to inflation so we don't have to continually revisit the problem. Shit's really not that complicated. It's just a matter of finding the right number.
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
And then tie it to inflation so we don't have to continually revisit the problem. Shit's really not that complicated. It's just a matter of finding the right number.
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
one dude will be paid 15 an hour to man the burger flipping robots
another dude will be paid 15 to make sure the automatic checkout is working
and I guess you could either get rid of dine-in all together or get a 15 an hour janitor
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
And then tie it to inflation so we don't have to continually revisit the problem. Shit's really not that complicated. It's just a matter of finding the right number.
I find that shit to be endlessly complicated. I can't tell if people are more outraged that burger flippers are asking/demanding 15 bucks an hour or if they are more outraged that you need to make 15 per hour or more to make it out there today.
The reason I say it seems endlessly complicated is because it seems to be an age old problem...and the price of certain things have exploded way faster than the inflation rate...gas, tuition, other stuff I can't think of right now.
This.
What does the 1% think of the 99's demand for a nudge towards the suspicion of a sniff in the direction of parity?
Should a Wall Street commodities broker shell out an extra buck fifty or whatever to his desk boy to go get the Clownburgers in?
Or is that way too Socialist a move?
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
And then tie it to inflation so we don't have to continually revisit the problem. Shit's really not that complicated. It's just a matter of finding the right number.
yeah because the government accurately measures and reports inflation, right?
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
And then tie it to inflation so we don't have to continually revisit the problem. Shit's really not that complicated. It's just a matter of finding the right number.
yeah because the government accurately measures and reports inflation, right?
Inflation can be calculated by anyone. All you need to do is monitor the average price for a set of standard goods over the course of a year. It's not a mystical voodoo number that we just have to take from the government on faith.
This.
What does the 1% think of the 99's demand for a nudge towards the suspicion of a sniff in the direction of parity?
Should a Wall Street commodities broker shell out an extra buck fifty or whatever to his desk boy to go get the Clownburgers in?
Or is that way too Socialist a move?
Speak on it, Brian.
i'll get to it in a sec bro. bit busy today
b/w
don't have a desk boy, but we do get food delivered everyday. not sure if the person placing the order should get paid more or not though; today's lunch wasn't that great
yeah because the government accurately measures and reports inflation, right?
Weak critcism: I don't like the way the government does a certain thing, so don't tie the minimum wage to inflation.
b/w
Accurately enough to justify a minimum wage increase that's tied to inflation.
The way the government measures and reports inflation is a flawed number and would amount to a pittance vs. actual increase in cost of living. CPI is an astronomically unrealistic measure of inflation but it's considered the standard for nearly all government reporting. If you want to talk more about shit you don't know about like in that other thread, go right ahead. I'm just saying that it's probably a better idea to use something that accurately measures real world expenses.
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
And then tie it to inflation so we don't have to continually revisit the problem. Shit's really not that complicated. It's just a matter of finding the right number.
yeah because the government accurately measures and reports inflation, right?
Inflation can be calculated by anyone. All you need to do is monitor the average price for a set of standard goods over the course of a year. It's not a mystical voodoo number that we just have to take from the government on faith.
Well considering it's the government that we're all asking to make it rain, I'd imagine they'd want to use their own number. I could be wrong though.
do people really believe when they apply to work at a fast food restaurant they are applying for a job with a good wage?
I'm totally in favor of the minimum wage being increased, but the fast food industry doesn't make it a secret that its not looking to get you paid. I've always been under the belief that its more of a "starter" job than anything else.
As for the argument that the employees may mess up your order because they aren't being paid well enough, I'd say that's bullshit. The care a worker brings into their job is much more a showing of their personality/ work ethic than some sort of passive protest against their salary.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Bon Vivant said:
Let's start with your silly idea that certain foods should be banned. Your mentor Ron Paul is very angry with you right now. How do you square your hatred of the government telling you what to do, with your call for a ban on FF? Oh yeah, it's because you're a total hypocrite.
Yeah, it's such a silly notion of mine that (basically) poison should be banned from being called food.
Next, let's move on to your callous, insensitve and bogus critiicism that all people that work at fast food places are douches. Many of these people are struggling to make ends meet, have children, are married and don't have the time to go to college, or they didn't finish high school (for a plethora of reasons other than them being a douche). While FF is not a premier job, it can, and often does allow for those people that I described to obtain things like health insurance for themselves, their spouses and their children.
Also, FF is often more willing to hire people who have made mistakes in their past, like committing crimes, which gives them the dignity of work.
The dignity of helping take years off the lives of customers, awesome.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
wasn't this brought up because of fast food workers in NYC though?
I agree the federal minimum wage needs to be increased, but a place like NYC needs a living wage bill in addition to that. $15/hr is unrealistic for a large portion of the US, but not for cities like New York or San Francisco.
This.
What does the 1% think of the 99's demand for a nudge towards the suspicion of a sniff in the direction of parity?
Should a Wall Street commodities broker shell out an extra buck fifty or whatever to his desk boy to go get the Clownburgers in?
Or is that way too Socialist a move?
Speak on it, Brian.
i'll get to it in a sec bro. bit busy today
b/w
don't have a desk boy, but we do get food delivered everyday. not sure if the person placing the order should get paid more or not though; today's lunch wasn't that great
Fwiw I had steamed lobster in today, desk boy kindly broke the claws open as testament to his undying respect, I put five in the Bob Cratchett Xmas Turkey fund bucket AND gave thanks to God for providing the bounteous fruits de mer on offer.
Alternatively I had Tuna Cheese melt from Clown subsidiary Pret A Manger, and a regular latte to go.
And now feel violated for putting pennies in the pocket of rapacious stockholders who sneer at the plight of the 99.
And recalled the wise words of the one Jake Burns of Stiff Little Fingers:
"The people who are on top
Say that you should keep your chin up
And they are keen to show you
The unhappy ones below you
But I want no more of that stuff
That's looking at it upside down
And the world has got money enough
For us to make it go around"
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
And then tie it to inflation so we don't have to continually revisit the problem. Shit's really not that complicated. It's just a matter of finding the right number.
yeah because the government accurately measures and reports inflation, right?
Inflation can be calculated by anyone. All you need to do is monitor the average price for a set of standard goods over the course of a year. It's not a mystical voodoo number that we just have to take from the government on faith.
Well considering it's the government that we're all asking to make it rain, I'd imagine they'd want to use their own number. I could be wrong though.
I'm sure lawmakers would use the government number. But since the increase in pay rates created by a revised minimum wage bill would not be paid directly by the federal government (except to government employees earning the minimum wage???and are there any?), I don't see it as them making it rain. Besides, you appear to be arguing against a higher minimum wage, which makes any cost of living increase preferable to your plan, flawed inflationary number or not.
I definitely hope these new strikes and moves towards organizing are here to stay.
To each their own...given this specific example (McD's wage)...I have a feeling a lot of the people fighting the good fight would make more progress for themselves if they spent their time differently.
Maybe they're not all as relentlessly selfish and self-involved as you seem to be. Some people (believe it or not) are willing to sacrifice some of their time and even some money in order to make life better for others.
I know, almost inconceivable, huh? Silly bastards should just employ your all-for-me philosophy and screw everyone else.
Smithers! Release the hounds!
Well, considering I stated in this same thread that some strikes are 100% legit; the idea of making life better for others is totally conceivable to me when warranted. That doesn't mean that if one strike/protest is valid then they all are.
I don't believe in blanket generalizations..."almost inconveibable, huh?"...
Listen, I'm sure you're not nearly as much of a generalizing dude in person...perhaps the idea of civil conversation about a topic where people have a different opinion than you do isn't something that you do well in written form. No offense...like I said, I'm sure you're a swell and rational guy in person...but I think I'm going to ignore you from here on out.
I'm tapping out on this one...totally got me bro...epic flames, etc etc.
I responded to your generalizing post by generalizing about you. That's probably true, and it was, perhaps, unwarranted.
But I do think the philosophy you were expressing is bankrupt and shortsighted.
Comments
Pay people shit and treat them like shit and they'll sometimes find ways to get even... like by screwing up orders, maybe.
There's a Burger King near me which is known locally as the place that never screws up an order. They're also known as the location with an older, stable work force that pays higher wages. I don't think those facts are unrelated.
Maybe they're not all as relentlessly selfish and self-involved as you seem to be. Some people (believe it or not) are willing to sacrifice some of their time and even some money in order to make life better for others.
I know, almost inconceivable, huh? Silly bastards should just employ your all-for-me philosophy and screw everyone else.
Smithers! Release the hounds!
There are not enough jobs available that pay a wage to support the way of life most people want to have. So all those people feel shitty about their whole life. Our sense of self worth is so tied to money and possessions, that the reality is life sucks for most people. Period.
Fix income equality and you would fix soooooo many of the country's problems. But it is a long, complex issue that people don't care about unless they are living it. As evidenced by this thread,
Well, considering I stated in this same thread that some strikes are 100% legit; the idea of making life better for others is totally conceivable to me when warranted. That doesn't mean that if one strike/protest is valid then they all are.
I don't believe in blanket generalizations..."almost inconveibable, huh?"...
Listen, I'm sure you're not nearly as much of a generalizing dude in person...perhaps the idea of civil conversation about a topic where people have a different opinion than you do isn't something that you do well in written form. No offense...like I said, I'm sure you're a swell and rational guy in person...but I think I'm going to ignore you from here on out.
I'm tapping out on this one...totally got me bro...epic flames, etc etc.
youve been here since 07 and u still think muthafuckas in this place can have a civil conversation?
But I've worked jobs that are much better than fry cook that didn't pay $15 an hour.
If I were Ronald McCEOdonald and my workers wanted $15 an hour I would say "cool, thank you for your time" and hire a bunch of other people who were cool with whatever I was offering. No shortage at the moment.
Schitt is not realistic IMO.
Let's start with your silly idea that certain foods should be banned. Your mentor Ron Paul is very angry with you right now. How do you square your hatred of the government telling you what to do, with your call for a ban on FF? Oh yeah, it's because you're a total hypocrite.
Next, let's move on to your callous, insensitve and bogus critiicism that all people that work at fast food places are douches. Many of these people are struggling to make ends meet, have children, are married and don't have the time to go to college, or they didn't finish high school (for a plethora of reasons other than them being a douche). While FF is not a premier job, it can, and often does allow for those people that I described to obtain things like health insurance for themselves, their spouses and their children.
Also, FF is often more willing to hire people who have made mistakes in their past, like committing crimes, which gives them the dignity of work.
I know, I know...it's a stupid position to operate from over and over again for the last 6 years. But, some people manage to pull it off here.
EDIT: And for fwiw, you are one of the people that totally pulls of civil convo here.
$15/hr is not realistic, I agree.
But, the federal minimum wage needs to be increased. Too what? Why not increase to $10 over a decade?
And then tie it to inflation so we don't have to continually revisit the problem. Shit's really not that complicated. It's just a matter of finding the right number.
Sounds reasonable to me.
another dude will be paid 15 to make sure the automatic checkout is working
and I guess you could either get rid of dine-in all together or get a 15 an hour janitor
I find that shit to be endlessly complicated. I can't tell if people are more outraged that burger flippers are asking/demanding 15 bucks an hour or if they are more outraged that you need to make 15 per hour or more to make it out there today.
The reason I say it seems endlessly complicated is because it seems to be an age old problem...and the price of certain things have exploded way faster than the inflation rate...gas, tuition, other stuff I can't think of right now.
It seems impossible to find the right balance.
This.
What does the 1% think of the 99's demand for a nudge towards the suspicion of a sniff in the direction of parity?
Should a Wall Street commodities broker shell out an extra buck fifty or whatever to his desk boy to go get the Clownburgers in?
Or is that way too Socialist a move?
Speak on it, Brian.
yeah because the government accurately measures and reports inflation, right?
Weak critcism: I don't like the way the government does a certain thing, so don't tie the minimum wage to inflation.
b/w
Accurately enough to justify a minimum wage increase that's tied to inflation.
Inflation can be calculated by anyone. All you need to do is monitor the average price for a set of standard goods over the course of a year. It's not a mystical voodoo number that we just have to take from the government on faith.
b/w
don't have a desk boy, but we do get food delivered everyday. not sure if the person placing the order should get paid more or not though; today's lunch wasn't that great
I'm totally in favor of the minimum wage being increased, but the fast food industry doesn't make it a secret that its not looking to get you paid. I've always been under the belief that its more of a "starter" job than anything else.
As for the argument that the employees may mess up your order because they aren't being paid well enough, I'd say that's bullshit. The care a worker brings into their job is much more a showing of their personality/ work ethic than some sort of passive protest against their salary.
Yeah, it's such a silly notion of mine that (basically) poison should be banned from being called food.
The dignity of helping take years off the lives of customers, awesome.
wasn't this brought up because of fast food workers in NYC though?
I agree the federal minimum wage needs to be increased, but a place like NYC needs a living wage bill in addition to that. $15/hr is unrealistic for a large portion of the US, but not for cities like New York or San Francisco.
Fwiw I had steamed lobster in today, desk boy kindly broke the claws open as testament to his undying respect, I put five in the Bob Cratchett Xmas Turkey fund bucket AND gave thanks to God for providing the bounteous fruits de mer on offer.
Alternatively I had Tuna Cheese melt from Clown subsidiary Pret A Manger, and a regular latte to go.
And now feel violated for putting pennies in the pocket of rapacious stockholders who sneer at the plight of the 99.
And recalled the wise words of the one Jake Burns of Stiff Little Fingers:
"The people who are on top
Say that you should keep your chin up
And they are keen to show you
The unhappy ones below you
But I want no more of that stuff
That's looking at it upside down
And the world has got money enough
For us to make it go around"
I'm sure lawmakers would use the government number. But since the increase in pay rates created by a revised minimum wage bill would not be paid directly by the federal government (except to government employees earning the minimum wage???and are there any?), I don't see it as them making it rain. Besides, you appear to be arguing against a higher minimum wage, which makes any cost of living increase preferable to your plan, flawed inflationary number or not.
I responded to your generalizing post by generalizing about you. That's probably true, and it was, perhaps, unwarranted.
But I do think the philosophy you were expressing is bankrupt and shortsighted.
Shit was for high school kids looking to make spending money.
I know public school teachers that don't make that much!