$15/hr for fast food work

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  • covecove 1,566 Posts
    LaserWolf said:
    The_Hook_Up said:
    My .02:

    First, everybody scoffing at the ffw request for $15/hr and think it is absurd, I hope I never have to be on your team to negotiate anything, because you obviously suck at it. As my father said, "you cant sell up". Meaning, you start at a high, idealized figure. If they are asking for 15, then if it does start a serious discussion among ff executives, then perhaps the compromise ends up at 10/11. They couldnt ask for 10 and hope they can negotiate that price higher. If they asked for a more reasonable price , like 10 an hour, they would end up with a compromised rate of 8 an hour, a raise of only a few cents.

    Secondly, as I have read hundreds of comments on my local news boards, the consensus opinions on the 15/hr question (the majority of opinions seems to be "hell no") seem to stem from 3 reasons...the number one reason appears to be akin of "they forgot to give me an extra ranch sauce, so fuck them", followed by "they work in fast food, therefore, they are too stupid to work anywhere else"(ironic that opinions like these seemed to be written in 2nd grade English by self described "educated" people...but I digress) and then the anecdotal and sentimental, "I-have-a-better-work- ethic than everybody who works in fast food nowadays because I flipped burgers in high school for $2/ an hour and I didn't complain." It is very amazing that so many 16-year olds in the 60s and 70s were able to work, go to school, pay rent, have health insurance, and raise a family on 2 an hour...oh, wait. What I am saying is that all of the above reasons against a higher minimum wage are complete bullshit. Even "scholarly" essays against raising the minimum wage are devoid of actual facts and figures and with a word substitution, could be an essay defending slavery. Again, the arguments against it are complete bullshit...they are based in gut-feelings and a mis -informed worldview.

    third, I believe if you decide to play the game and decide you want to work 40 hours a week for someone, that you deserve not to live in poverty. Whatever you do.. flip burgers, shine shoes, dig ditches, whatever.. you deserve to be able to pay rent, eat and go see a doctor. Period.

    Bonus beat...I find it hilarious and sad that the same people who say "pay them whatever you want to, it is YOUR business, you are a "job creator", you should have the say in what you pay them" are the same people who piss and moan about the existence of food stamps and how they don't want their tax dollars going to them. So you are against people working to feed themselves and against them getting gov't help to feed themselves... uhh, ok.

    I wont even get started on the "they should go to college crowd". It takes a special kind of stupid to think you can throw tuition, books, fees and extra babysitting into the ffw's budget when rent and food cannot be covered by the minimum wage.

    X2 !

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    The_Hook_Up said:
    My .02:

    First, everybody scoffing at the ffw request for $15/hr and think it is absurd, I hope I never have to be on your team to negotiate anything, because you obviously suck at it. As my father said, "you cant sell up". Meaning, you start at a high, idealized figure. If they are asking for 15, then if it does start a serious discussion among ff executives, then perhaps the compromise ends up at 10/11. They couldnt ask for 10 and hope they can negotiate that price higher. If they asked for a more reasonable price , like 10 an hour, they would end up with a compromised rate of 8 an hour, a raise of only a few cents.

    Secondly, as I have read hundreds of comments on my local news boards, the consensus opinions on the 15/hr question (the majority of opinions seems to be "hell no") seem to stem from 3 reasons...the number one reason appears to be akin of "they forgot to give me an extra ranch sauce, so fuck them", followed by "they work in fast food, therefore, they are too stupid to work anywhere else"(ironic that opinions like these seemed to be written in 2nd grade English by self described "educated" people...but I digress) and then the anecdotal and sentimental, "I-have-a-better-work- ethic than everybody who works in fast food nowadays because I flipped burgers in high school for $2/ an hour and I didn't complain." It is very amazing that so many 16-year olds in the 60s and 70s were able to work, go to school, pay rent, have health insurance, and raise a family on 2 an hour...oh, wait. What I am saying is that all of the above reasons against a higher minimum wage are complete bullshit. Even "scholarly" essays against raising the minimum wage are devoid of actual facts and figures and with a word substitution, could be an essay defending slavery. Again, the arguments against it are complete bullshit...they are based in gut-feelings and a mis -informed worldview.

    third, I believe if you decide to play the game and decide you want to work 40 hours a week for someone, that you deserve not to live in poverty. Whatever you do.. flip burgers, shine shoes, dig ditches, whatever.. you deserve to be able to pay rent, eat and go see a doctor. Period.

    Bonus beat...I find it hilarious and sad that the same people who say "pay them whatever you want to, it is YOUR business, you are a "job creator", you should have the say in what you pay them" are the same people who piss and moan about the existence of food stamps and how they don't want their tax dollars going to them. So you are against people working to feed themselves and against them getting gov't help to feed themselves... uhh, ok.

    I wont even get started on the "they should go to college crowd". It takes a special kind of stupid to think you can throw tuition, books, fees and extra babysitting into the ffw's budget when rent and food cannot be covered by the minimum wage.
    tl;dr

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    DOR said:
    I really just think it comes down to people think there needs to be slaves in this world. They may not come out and say that. But subconsciously...
    I really hope you haven't berated anyone for assuming these people are lazy and don't want to work while assuming and spouting this utter garbage. Ridiculous.

  • covecove 1,566 Posts
    Are you really this shitty and dumb??

  • DORDOR Two Ron Toe 9,873 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:
    DOR said:
    I really just think it comes down to people think there needs to be slaves in this world. They may not come out and say that. But subconsciously...
    I really hope you haven't berated anyone for assuming these people are lazy and don't want to work while assuming and spouting this utter garbage. Ridiculous.

    Thank you for proving my point.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    DOR said:
    PatrickCrazy said:
    DOR said:
    I really just think it comes down to people think there needs to be slaves in this world. They may not come out and say that. But subconsciously...
    I really hope you haven't berated anyone for assuming these people are lazy and don't want to work while assuming and spouting this utter garbage. Ridiculous.

    Thank you for proving my point.
    Not sure how I've proved your point seeing as how I've not posted anything about anyone striking beyond that their demands are out of line with current economic reality. But yeah, I'm sure saying anyone who doesn't agree with you supports slavery is going to win people to your side.

  • covecove 1,566 Posts
    DeadgarHoover said:
    cove said:
    Are you really this shitty and dumb??

    He thinks Ayn Rand was a great thinker.

    That's as direct an indirect answer as exists in this universe.

    That was mean of me.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324009304579041231971683854.html
    Ryne Auld Saandberg

  • parallaxparallax no-style-having mf'er 1,266 Posts
    DeadgarHoover said:
    There was a time when many Republicans were decent human beings:



    What happened?

    There was a time (I'm guessing) when you were sane, relaxed, and at peace with the world. When YOU were a decent human being.

    What happened?

  • Just bumping in the conversation to say society has gotten a ill conception of competence: yeah you don't exactly need to go to uni for the flip-burger movement, but what about doing it quickly, chainwork style in front of your 100+ F?? grill with a manager shouting at you. Well that's ok for a few hours as a student job, but what if it's your life, along with shitty timetables etc and family to feed. Tough luck? Living like that is a damn competence anyhow.
    Now compare to the half-work desk-work, just cause the guy knows ms office and two words of german, exact contribution is shady and vague. Production-wise, value may well be zero or negative. Paid to stand there and eat burger at noon. One of the 3200 burgers that were flipped that day by the same fluent filipino/chinese/spanish guy. And really, who do you hear complain most of his work.
    I also think the problem are the jobs are designed like that, socio-economically, those jobs are dumps for a large category of people we do not want to and cannot give a good/proportionate portion of the gdp because we want to give some chosen others more ('us'). All about arbitrary selection, inner economic colonization. That's what competences are the word for here.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts

  • Rockadelic said:

    That is moronic and illadvised.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    Nabozo said:
    Just bumping in the conversation to say society has gotten a ill conception of competence: yeah you don't exactly need to go to uni for the flip-burger movement, but what about doing it quickly, chainwork style in front of your 100+ F?? grill with a manager shouting at you. Well that's ok for a few hours as a student job, but what if it's your life, along with shitty timetables etc and family to feed. Tough luck? Living like that is a damn competence anyhow.
    Now compare to the half-work desk-work, just cause the guy knows ms office and two words of german, exact contribution is shady and vague. Production-wise, value may well be zero or negative. Paid to stand there and eat burger at noon. One of the 3200 burgers that were flipped that day by the same fluent filipino/chinese/spanish guy. And really, who do you hear complain most of his work.
    I also think the problem are the jobs are designed like that, socio-economically, those jobs are dumps for a large category of people we do not want to and cannot give a good/proportionate portion of the gdp because we want to give some chosen others more ('us'). All about arbitrary selection, inner economic colonization. That's what competences are the word for here.

    Just curious....

    Here is a short list(there are many more) of occupations that make considerably less than $15.00 an hour.
    Hotel, Motel, and Resort Desk Clerks
    Nonfarm Animal Caretakers
    Cleaners of Vehicles and Equipment
    Agricultural Workers
    Home Health Aides
    Maids and Housekeeping Cleaners
    Automotive and Watercraft Service Attendants
    Childcare Workers
    Laundry and Dry-Cleaning Workers
    Cashiers


    So I have two questions.

    1) Should all of these(as well as the many other) occupations get a 50% raise as well?

    b/w

    2) is there ANY occupation that you feel $8.20 an hour is fair pay for?

  • Rockadelic said:
    Nabozo said:
    Just bumping in the conversation to say society has gotten a ill conception of competence: yeah you don't exactly need to go to uni for the flip-burger movement, but what about doing it quickly, chainwork style in front of your 100+ F?? grill with a manager shouting at you. Well that's ok for a few hours as a student job, but what if it's your life, along with shitty timetables etc and family to feed. Tough luck? Living like that is a damn competence anyhow.
    Now compare to the half-work desk-work, just cause the guy knows ms office and two words of german, exact contribution is shady and vague. Production-wise, value may well be zero or negative. Paid to stand there and eat burger at noon. One of the 3200 burgers that were flipped that day by the same fluent filipino/chinese/spanish guy. And really, who do you hear complain most of his work.
    I also think the problem are the jobs are designed like that, socio-economically, those jobs are dumps for a large category of people we do not want to and cannot give a good/proportionate portion of the gdp because we want to give some chosen others more ('us'). All about arbitrary selection, inner economic colonization. That's what competences are the word for here.

    Just curious....

    Here is a short list(there are many more) of occupations that make considerably less than $15.00 an hour.
    Hotel, Motel, and Resort Desk Clerks
    Nonfarm Animal Caretakers
    Cleaners of Vehicles and Equipment
    Agricultural Workers
    Home Health Aides
    Maids and Housekeeping Cleaners
    Automotive and Watercraft Service Attendants
    Childcare Workers
    Laundry and Dry-Cleaning Workers
    Cashiers


    So I have two questions.

    1) Should all of these(as well as the many other) occupations get a 50% raise as well?

    b/w

    2) is there ANY occupation that you feel $8.20 an hour is fair pay for?

    1) Yes
    2) For an adult? No. If you are going to hire an adult to do ANYTHING for you, I would say 12 dollars an hour would be the absolute minimum.

    8 bucks an hour is for a 12 year old bagging your leaves, walking your dog, washing your car.

    Let me also add, if you are going to hire someone part time, they cant be a your beckon call, you have to understand that the part time worker probably has another job, so you cant schedule them for different hours and different days preventing them from getting another job. Another issue with poverty wage jobs.

    12 an hour minimum regardless what you are doing... if you are working FOR someone, that means the person who hires you needs you to help maintain profit, needs you to do something they don't want to do, or they need you to do something they aren't qualified to do, therefore they should have to pay someone a living wage if they are having you work for them 40 hours a week. Everybody needs a place to live, food to eat and a doctor to see.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    The_Hook_Up said:
    1) Yes
    2) For an adult? No. If you are going to hire an adult to do ANYTHING for you, I would say 12 dollars an hour would be the absolute minimum.

    8 bucks an hour is for a 12 year old bagging your leaves, walking your dog, washing your car.

    Let me also add, if you are going to hire someone part time, they cant be a your beckon call, you have to understand that the part time worker probably has another job, so you cant schedule them for different hours and different days preventing them from getting another job. Another issue with poverty wage jobs.

    12 an hour minimum regardless what you are doing... if you are working FOR someone, that means the person who hires you needs you to help maintain profit, needs you to do something they don't want to do, or they need you to do something they aren't qualified to do, therefore they should have to pay someone a living wage if they are having you work for them 40 hours a week. Everybody needs a place to live, food to eat and a doctor to see.

    So basically you'd like to see the Government raise the minimum wage from $7.25 to $12.00

  • Rockadelic said:
    The_Hook_Up said:
    1) Yes
    2) For an adult? No. If you are going to hire an adult to do ANYTHING for you, I would say 12 dollars an hour would be the absolute minimum.

    8 bucks an hour is for a 12 year old bagging your leaves, walking your dog, washing your car.

    Let me also add, if you are going to hire someone part time, they cant be a your beckon call, you have to understand that the part time worker probably has another job, so you cant schedule them for different hours and different days preventing them from getting another job. Another issue with poverty wage jobs.

    12 an hour minimum regardless what you are doing... if you are working FOR someone, that means the person who hires you needs you to help maintain profit, needs you to do something they don't want to do, or they need you to do something they aren't qualified to do, therefore they should have to pay someone a living wage if they are having you work for them 40 hours a week. Everybody needs a place to live, food to eat and a doctor to see.

    So basically you'd like to see the Government raise the minimum wage from $7.25 to $12.00

  • Rockadelic said:

    Just curious....

    Here is a short list(there are many more) of occupations that make considerably less than $15.00 an hour.
    Hotel, Motel, and Resort Desk Clerks
    Nonfarm Animal Caretakers
    Cleaners of Vehicles and Equipment
    Agricultural Workers
    Home Health Aides
    Maids and Housekeeping Cleaners
    Automotive and Watercraft Service Attendants
    Childcare Workers
    Laundry and Dry-Cleaning Workers
    Cashiers


    So I have two questions.

    1) Should all of these(as well as the many other) occupations get a 50% raise as well?

    b/w

    2) is there ANY occupation that you feel $8.20 an hour is fair pay for?

    I really have little idea of the way of living you get for 8.20 an hour in the US, I can only speculate, but my guess is 1300$ is insufficient for decent life, but above all it is wildly disproportionate compared to other jobs and I'm saying this is mainly a form of discrimination. There are some unwritten laws somewhere that say "this job is a job, but it is a shit job, pay them less": various economic terrains deemed unworthy and degrading. So yeah obviously that's not the problem of fast food workers only. As long as every honest working man and woman can't get decent wage, I think we shouldn't listen to anything negative an economist has to say on the matter. Economists usually say the unworthy part of the economy is necessary for the worthy stuff to be worthy and for it to work, how, often through market's magic hands, which now I think is defending the castle and an appeal to economic mysticism the crisis imo proved wrong. Reason why I think truly rich people are all undeserving and parasites of some sort (many shrewd, admittedly).



  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    hogginthefogg said:

    = even more Californians moving to Austin.

    Thanks.

  • RockadelicRockadelic Out Digging 13,993 Posts
    .

  • Bon VivantBon Vivant The Eye of the Storm 2,018 Posts
    HarveyCanal said:
    hogginthefogg said:

    = even more Californians moving to Austin.

    Thanks.

    Yep, because all those people who will make more money are going to want to move to Texas now.

    LOL, indeed.


  • they better chain them things down

  • GuzzoGuzzo 8,611 Posts
    PatrickCrazy said:

    Theyve had these things at the Umami Burgers around LA. I had mines taken away from me last time for playing around too much, good luck dealing with the 5 year old who has slightly less manners than I.

  • It's funny how the RWNJs cry over the possibility of paying a quarter more for a Big Whoop but don't think subsidizing the work force for Wal-Mart heir billionaires is a bad idea.

    Are RWNJs born wearing kneepads or what?

    Also, fuck Peyton Manning.

    http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/23/peyton-manning-papa-johns-armed-robbery-denver-employees-quit/

    I hope he gets hit so hard this week that the field will have to be grid-searched for bits of vertebrae.

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    u mad bruv?

  • The_Hook_Up said:
    Rockadelic said:
    Nabozo said:


    So I have two questions.

    1) Should all of these(as well as the many other) occupations get a 50% raise as well?

    b/w

    2) is there ANY occupation that you feel $8.20 an hour is fair pay for?

    1) Yes
    2) For an adult? No. If you are going to hire an adult to do ANYTHING for you, I would say 12 dollars an hour would be the absolute minimum.

    8 bucks an hour is for a 12 year old bagging your leaves, walking your dog, washing your car.

    So if you were a business owner, you would pay different groups of people differently based on their needs?

    I can't imagine any scenario where someone should be paid for anything other than their actual contribution (amount and quality of work completed).

  • SmallAxeRick said:
    I can't imagine any scenario where someone should be paid for anything other than their actual contribution (amount and quality of work completed).

    [looks at wall street CEO bonuses]

  • BrianBrian 7,618 Posts
    SmallAxeRick said:
    I can't imagine any scenario where someone should be paid for anything other than their actual contribution (amount and quality of work completed).

    [looks at wall street CEO bonuses]
    How much do you think Wall Street CEOs should get paid?

  • SmallAxeRick said:
    I can't imagine any scenario where someone should be paid for anything other than their actual contribution (amount and quality of work completed).

    [looks at wall street CEO bonuses]
    How much do you think Wall Street CEOs should get paid?

    Irrelevant.
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