Serious Moral Dilemma

behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
edited June 2010 in Strut Central
My downstairs neighbors are gross. living in an apartment building and being in such close quarters affects everybody. these neighbors are beyond gross. I opened the fire escape window the other day to have a cigarette. their fire escape was full of trash. rotting food. dirty clothes. the next night I was out there and their kitchen lights were on. All I could see was the window sill. Covered in mold and I saw like 2 mice.

Being right underneath me I feel like I'm living above a garbage dump. and the chance of any bugs or mice getting into my place is a greater possibility.

Here's the problem. She has 2 kids. Younger ones. in a studio apartment. If I report it I'm afraid because their place is so filthy there's no way they won't take the kids away. atleast I feel that's what'll happen.

Is it worse for that to happen or worse for them living there?

I'm really at a loss for words on this one. Everyone I talk to says report them to management or 311. I dunno tho

thoughts??
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  Comments


  • that sounds utterly repulsive.

    have you tried talking to her directly?

  • willie_fugalwillie_fugal 1,862 Posts
    take it to the neighborhood guardians and/or get Harvey to bust some ass :grin:

  • ennuiennui 111 Posts
    Talk to the super/management. At this point it's a sanitation issue, not a child safety issue. Don't get ahead of yourself. My 2 cents.

  • behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
    I'm almost embarrased for them to say something. If I talk to the woman (who is probably mid 50s uses a walker and an oxygen tank sometimes) she might not do a thing about it. her children definitely won't. then shell know I reported them and there will be a problem between us as neighbors.

    If I report anonymously it could be anyone you know?

    The problem is do I do it or not? arghhhhh

    should be a no brainer but I feel kinda fucked up.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    No one here can say what's better or worse for the kids, including you.

    Maybe make a call to social services with nothing to identify the people or place, describe the situation and see if living in a pigsty is actually grounds for removing children.

  • maybe it's just me but i prefer the direct route 9/10. maybe she is just oblivious, maybe her kids can help. as a neighbour, why not give her the benefit of the doubt and bring it politely to her attention. if she is so damn inconsiderate that she can't get her act together after, then what the hell do you care what she thinks of you or if it will be awkward seeing each other in the hallways?

    if you're such a shrinking violet that you can;t deal with her directly and you can;t live with potential consequences of reporting her to the super then simply move out.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    fuck the children

  • WoimsahWoimsah 1,734 Posts
    crabmongerfunk said:
    that sounds utterly repulsive.

    have you tried talking to her directly?

    Ya - I was going to say you should try talkig to her directly and let her know, as peacefully as possible, that if she doesn't clean things up, you're going to have to get the authorities involved. You can only go so far until you have to be sort of stern --- and with someone who's let things spiral so far out of control, it doesn't seem that being patient and super nice are going to work in your benefit.

  • behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
    Woimsah said:
    crabmongerfunk said:
    that sounds utterly repulsive.

    have you tried talking to her directly?

    Ya - I was going to say you should try talkig to her directly and let her know, as peacefully as possible, that if she doesn't clean things up, you're going to have to get the authorities involved. You can only go so far until you have to be sort of stern --- and with someone who's let things spiral so far out of control, it doesn't seem that being patient and super nice are going to work in your benefit.

    well to add to this. i watched the other day as one of her kids put some garbage out there. like how hard is it to bring it to the garbage room down in the basement?

  • BreezBreez 1,706 Posts
    I say go to her first, be polite no matter how angry you are. If that don't work go to the building manager. Pretty much make reporting her to the authorities you last resort. I know some people are like "fuck her, fuck the kids" but you don't want any guilt, I FEEL YOU. Just start the ball rolling and then give it a week, if shit don't change then do what you gotta. At least you gave her a chance.

  • behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
    Breez said:
    I say go to her first, be polite no matter how angry you are. If that don't work go to the building manager. Pretty much make reporting her to the authorities you last resort. I know some people are like "fuck her, fuck the kids" but you don't want any guilt, I FEEL YOU. Just start the ball rolling and then give it a week, if shit don't change then do what you gotta. At least you gave her a chance.

    well i think the best option would be to go to the super. he has a better relationship with all the tenants and it would be less intrusive. he does work on the building. i am actually surprised he has never noticed it.

    this way if she doesn't clean it up the next steps can be taken...

  • and what would you do if she straight up asked if you if you reported her to the super? would you lie or would you have the guts to tell the truth? people generally don;t like to be reported on, sometimes they dig their heels in and then go on some witch-hunt to find the culprit. by going to the super you are immediately escalating. going to the super is a card you shouldn;t be playing right off anyhow in terms of you having some leverage over the situation.

    i don't know you and i don;t want to come off as judgemental but since you framed this as a moral dilemma i'd like to suggest the real dilemma you are having is that you are too embarrassed or shy or whatever to stand up for your rights and this has nothing at all really to do with her kids or whatever else...those are all merely convenient excuses for you to not do what you know you should and must do.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    behemoth said:
    Breez said:
    I say go to her first, be polite no matter how angry you are. If that don't work go to the building manager. Pretty much make reporting her to the authorities you last resort. I know some people are like "fuck her, fuck the kids" but you don't want any guilt, I FEEL YOU. Just start the ball rolling and then give it a week, if shit don't change then do what you gotta. At least you gave her a chance.

    well i think the best option would be to go to the super. he has a better relationship with all the tenants and it would be less intrusive. he does work on the building. i am actually surprised he has never noticed it.

    this way if she doesn't clean it up the next steps can be taken...

    Without knowing her (or the super) I'd say it's 50/50 whether you go to her or the super first - I would use your judgment there. I mean, at her age, it's not like she doesn't know where the garbage should go. It sounds like her kids aren't getting much instruction, though.

    I lived near a similar situation when I first moved to NYC, but not as close proximity.

  • behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
    crabmongerfunk said:
    and what would you do if she straight up asked if you if you reported her to the super? would you lie or would you have the guts to tell the truth? people generally don;t like to be reported on, sometimes they dig their heels in and then go on some witch-hunt to find the culprit. by going to the super you are immediately escalating.

    i don't know you and i don;t want to come odd as judgemental but since you framed this as a moral dilemma i'd like to suggest the real dilemma you are having is that you are too embarrassed or shy or whatever to stand up for your rights and this has nothing at all really to do with her kids or whatever else...those are all merely convenient excuses for you to not do what you know you should and must do.

    i am not shy or embarassed. i am more concerned that it isn't my business at the moment. it isn't affecting anyone at the moment (will it in the future maybe?)

    it's more of an eye sore than anything now and "wow these people are gross?"

    the reason i am skeptical is cuz its like the equivalent of saying "can you clean your house?"

    i am prying into someone's life and invading their privacy almost. it isn't a public issue at the moment but its a cause for concern. or maybe i am just a person who lived clean most of their life. it is kind of too close for comfort though.

    i will speak to her tomorrow/ but i dont really see her cleaning up. she can't physically do it. and after interactions with her in the hallway she isn't the friendliest person.

  • here's the part you need to grasp fully: it is impacting your ability to enjoy your place now (garbage on the balcony) and if it doesn;t get fixed things are only going to get much worse. rats, mice, bedbugs, roaches don;t respect property divisions in a particular structure. it's not like you are asking her to make the damn bed in her apt. she is the one interfering with you, not the other way around. you seem to have it a bit twisted.

    she may or may not respond to your polite approach but at least you will be giving her the opportunity to rectify the situation so when you have to escalate this you don't feel one ounce of remorse or regret. you have cards to play and the first one is the polite neighbourly conversation...let us know how it goes

  • easier said than done, but I would try talking to her, ask her if there is anyone she could ask to help her clean up her place, and consider offering to help if there is really no one else to help. Obviously that may make you more involved than you want to be, but if you are worried about the kids it could be a good move.

    like I said, easier said than done.

  • The_NonThe_Non 5,691 Posts
    Invite the Russian chick over for some vodka tonics and strategize.

  • behemothbehemoth 2,189 Posts
    The_Non said:
    Invite the Russian chick over for some vodka tonics and strategize.

    haha

    the Russian chick is married. her husband is in jail. she visits her. no good

  • AlmondAlmond 1,427 Posts
    The_Non said:
    Invite the Russian chick over for some vodka tonics and strategize.

    You beat me to it, Non!
    First of all, this isn't a "serious moral dilemma," especially if you don't think it has much to do with you. So don't fret!
    If you want to avoid any neighborly conflict, then just leave an anonymous note to the manager stating the situation, though it may be easy to figure out it was you since you have a direct view of their trash mountain.
    Secondly, it sounds as though you don't have much of relationship with these neighbors, so if you go and report the situation to the manager directly, it's not as if you'll be damaging a friendship. You can always just ask the manager to not say it was you. The worst that will happen is that they won't clean up their shit. If they're mad at you, the lady with the oxygen and the walker is not likely to jump you in the parking lot. The kids might, but they're probably too ashamed.

    My last suggestion is to contact the A&E show "Hoarders" because these folks are hoarding trash and probably lots of other strange shit. Then they'll turn the tables and film you hoarding records.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    start dumping more trash on her piles of trash. if that doesnt get her to spring into action, light them bags on fire.

    for real tho, that kinda sucks.i would go up to her and try to soften it or twist it a little like you got a highly relevant reason that that balcony should be clean....not just, "its fuckin with the aesthetics of my smoke break." maybe, the smell is bugging me, im already having a roach/mouse problem, etc. Ask her if she can look out for you on this one...Then bake her some cookies or something if she does clean it up. if she's a bitch about it, go the super. it may not be good for your recording career to start off snitching...step to her once, give her a chance to make right. if she dont, torch it

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    F all the people that are all like "talk to her first"

    F that

    She already violated the social contract

    She is about to have mice in your apartment

    There is obviously something wrong with her

    She is clearly going to be completely impervious to logical appeals

    Dealing with her is a waste of time

    Go straight to the super, the authorities, whatever

  • faux: so many assumptions in your post and yet we have so little information to go on. also, why must the appeal to her be strictly "logical". horrible advice.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    crabmongerfunk said:
    faux: so many assumptions in your post and yet we have so little information to go on. also, why must the appeal to her be strictly "logical". horrible advice.

    Please. Spare me.

    This person is violating.

  • spare you what?

    there is more than 1 way to skin a cat and how can you be so sure of your mental/psychological assessment of the neighbour lady? how can you be so sure of her reaction and how this is going to play out?

    a violation of a social or other contract is not always immediate grounds to crank the damn volume to 11.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    faux_rillz said:
    crabmongerfunk said:
    faux: so many assumptions in your post and yet we have so little information to go on. also, why must the appeal to her be strictly "logical". horrible advice.

    Please. Spare me.

    This person is violating.
    you a born snitch

    stop running around behind peoples backs. id want neighbors to step to me with any issues they had before calling cops/security/landlord/theirmomz. come yell at me first. if they had to call some authority person first, i would never think very highly of them. were not talking murder or madness, this is some shit that the lady might not realize is bothering anyone

  • AlmondAlmond 1,427 Posts
    Obviously Behemoth is too "nice" to heed your advice, Faux, otherwise he wouldn't have started this thread. If this is anything like the Russian mom situation, he probably won't act upon it and will likely quit smoking because he wouldn't want to go out to the fire escape. This might be a good thing as it will save him the cost of cigarettes and medical expenses.

    In all honesty, Behemoth, report them to management. Most people will take the hint and clean up. And if you're worried about the kids being taken away, I'm sure that won't happen without a series of warnings. If the living situation is bad enough, the kids shouldn't be there, anyway.

  • ReynaldoReynaldo 6,054 Posts
    Put superglue in her locks; then when she gets the super to fix it they'll see the state of the apartment.

  • faux_rillzfaux_rillz 14,343 Posts
    tripledouble said:
    faux_rillz said:
    crabmongerfunk said:
    faux: so many assumptions in your post and yet we have so little information to go on. also, why must the appeal to her be strictly "logical". horrible advice.

    Please. Spare me.

    This person is violating.

    you a born snitch

    LOL--quite likely

    There are people out there who are paid to deal with pathological garbage hoarders--supers, city employees, etc. I'm not one of them and neither is behemoth, as far as I can tell.

    Going directly to your neighbor about playing their music a little loud or partying a little late is one thing; this is something else.

  • Going directly to your neighbor about playing their music a little loud or partying a little late is one thing; this is something else.

    can you explain how this is precisely so different from another nuisance such as loud music, partying, etc that might interfere with a neighbour's enjoyment of his living place?

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    The difference is that it's not subjective.

    It's a health risk.

    It's a risk to every tenant in the building, because of pests and infestation.

    It is almost certainly a violation of the lease terms.
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