this was on my list... but i didnt get a chance to submit.
zapp from ohio, pfunk from nj/ny... yet all get heralded as "west coast" sound.
No doubt but ePMD brought it first, when cats were on some JB shit.
thats what im saying... like when people say rock n roll>>> white people music... uhh chuck berry, little richard... i mean they only invented it.
point blank. sure, a few drips/ decent songs form artists sampling from regions outside of nyc/ tri state... but be fucccking real..
its time to put down the pom poms, get off the southern/ texas cheerleading squad. this aint lil kiki and young bozo were speaking on... thats todays shit.
for the sampling era... there was barely a dent made for the influence of sound, and pushing the envelope within this art form. a mass production loop with some 808 planet rock (nyc) drum biting pattern... aint cutting it against what a marley marl, paul c, primo, beatnuts, pete rock, buckwild, bombsquad...and so many more.
cmon, steve miller with james brown and lafayette afro rock band, in 86-87 ? stop playin yourself.
Hamby, you've got a point but you just say it all wrong.
By needlessly writing off all southern rap (it felt ridiculous even typing that - I don't understand what could make someone so obsessed with something so nutty) you're building derision towards your viewpoint which probably wouldn't even exist otherwise.
You don't even have to put southern rap samples on your list, you just don't need to go out of your way to constantly talk down on the shit. It makes everything else you're saying sound less reasonable.
Not for nothing Zapp/PFunk would've just been more "Rare Groove" shit without the west coast.
Dudes like to claim credit for that but not until it was worth claiming credit for... yahm?
NYC isnt a Zapp town. Growin up i never partied to or heard any Zapp besides More Bounce. Parliment(less Funkadelic) got run due to the Casablanca/Disco run.
NYC radio would play Parliment, but no Zapp at all.
When ePMD dropped that shit it was a BIG deal in terms of mining other sounds.
It's My Thang was already a Classic Break so there was no surprise there.
When i was in College circa 88-91, i heard "I Wanna Be Your Man" and was open. My ladyfriend from Buffalo was like "U never heard of Roger?"
Disco was so dominant, but over the years I learned that everybody else was on some deep Funk shit while NYC was Disco-Ballin or Garage-steez.
And u go far out enuff out of the main hoods in NYC cats are on some Country shit and closer to what the reast of the Local Black EXP was doin....FUNK. So Im not surprised that ePMD brought that Zapp Clapp shit to the table being from Brentwood L.I.
After You Gots To Chill, The West/Souf rocked that Clapp better cause its really 'their' shit.
The Jungle Bros. were the next NY group to try and get that Clapp w/ U Make Me Sweat in '89.
Look - the NYC Mythology and those who swear by it is always going to be what it is. The logic of it is so insularly driven you can't really hope to reason against it with true believers.
For me, I'd want to try to note that Dr. Dre and Sir Jinx and E-Swift were all doing impressive things out West but inevitably, someone would just claim, "they were just trying to sound like NY cats."
The Chronic was trying to be Low End Theory which was trying to be Straight Outta Compton which was trying to be Nation Of Millions.
I hear ya - but i dont see the sonic connection btwn Low End Theory and Straight Outta Compton. Yes, Tribe did minimalize their sound compared to Peoples Travels, but I never associated LET w/ SOC. They dropped all that EW&F steez and dressed like regular hood cats, but after that I dont get the "trying" thingy.
The Chronic was trying to be Low End Theory which was trying to be Straight Outta Compton which was trying to be Nation Of Millions.
People catching feelings cause "regional samples" aren't on one - or two - particular people's list of "cool samples.
I have few problems with Kon and Amir's list; shit is subjective. I had to come up with a Top 30 list for Scratch Magazine and took heat for leaving out all kinds of shit.
But I do think part of this subsequent convo is valid when people want to challenge the primacy of the DITC clique. It's just that you'll never convince some folks of the validity of bringing in producers outside of that NYC circle.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
sadly the south really hasnt had much to do with the art of sampling, aside from a few random tidbits...i cant name one producer from back in the day known for this approach/aesthetic. primo is from texas but he repped bk... he doesnt count.
who from the south went the extra mile to chef up unknown drum breaks, chop the hell out of samples use euro library or jazz records.. while some from the south carry this "east coast" tradition on today (9th wonder).....stop trying to force whats not there. the south was never known for this.
Again and again and again, what a complete ignorant crock of bullshit. Listen to Mr. Scarface Is Back or Til Death Do Us Part or Something Serious or Fadenuf fa Erybody for that matter and tell me the South wasn't sampling its ass off. The difference as you pointed out is that dudes in the South live that shit enough not to have to go scour some euro library nothingness to find sample sources. In the South, Curtis Mayfield or the Isley Brothers is just what gets played in a Cadillac. There's no room for Poindexter to be reaching out into the great beyond for some unfamiliar singular look-at-clever-me bullshit. Dudes stuck to the crates in their mama's living room, the ones that everyone would jam as an already established regular ritual. You don't noodle around looking for the most obscure part of a Vic Juris record as you ain't got time for that bullshit. It's not 2 degrees here for months on end and the lifestyle calls for more life and less nerdery.
But what you really miss in all of this which is just inexplicable is that dudes like Mannie Fresh, Pimp C, Juicy J, Mike Dean, DJ Toomp, etc. were wrecking samples all through that very era. Just because a lot of these dudes left your heroes in the dust career-wise as far as moving on into live instrumentation and such doesn't mean they need to be east coast assholed out of the conversation.
It sucks that not only did you miss all of this as it was happening, despite it being readily available to you. But 20 years later, here you are still pretending that it never happened.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
point blank. sure, a few drips/ decent songs form artists sampling from regions outside of nyc/ tri state... but be fucccking real..
its time to put down the pom poms, get off the southern/ texas cheerleading squad. this aint lil kiki and young bozo were speaking on... thats todays shit.
for the sampling era... there was barely a dent made for the influence of sound, and pushing the envelope within this art form. a mass production loop with some 808 planet rock (nyc) drum biting pattern... aint cutting it against what a marley marl, paul c, primo, beatnuts, pete rock, buckwild, bombsquad...and so many more.
cmon, steve miller with james brown and lafayette afro rock band, in 86-87 ? stop playin yourself.
But you are the one who is played out. You try to play that DITC shit (which I actually love) in 95% of real rap clubs for the past 10+ years and you are going to get disregarded right out the door. But if you throw on all sorts of other rap music that has come out since your stupid NYC hey-day, THAT SAMPLES ISH JUST LIKE YOUR 20 YEAR OLD FAVORITES...and you're golden. That's because sampling in hip-hop isn't restricted to what you are calling the "sampling era". Producers still sample all the time. Very clever shit still gets made...didn't see any Jay-Dee samples on your list either...so beyond even the where's-the-South contention, you are ignoring other areas of significant sampling fervor. But yeah, you just keep thinking your biased view is what's hitting and is historically accurate because regardless of anything I could possibly say here, you already barely matter. Goodbye assholes, enjoy the applesauce at the old folks home.
didn't see any Jay-Dee samples on your list either....
i saw about 50..
what was good about the article was choosing things that have had widespread use in hip hop. thats the bottom line isn't it, not calling out this or that sample from this or that track. despite owning a large number of those i certainly hadn't heard of the Bob Azzam drums, so theres something in there for everyone.
harvey i think whilst your asking the wrong people to comment on your regional rap history, you clearly know so much about it that you probably should do a southern-based samples article yourself. i'd love to read it.
Wah wah wah...this subjective list created for entertainment doesn't square with my wyteboi local rill rap experience! Get over it. Doesn't it go without saying by now in this post-"Rolling Stone magazine says 'Stairway To Heaven' is EPIC, so there!" age of the Internet that "best ever" musings are to be taken with a grain of salt?
Nobody is upset because their region was excluded from the list.....it's the shitty attitude that comes with the dismissal.......if the same magazine published a list of pick any down south/west coast dj's 50 greatest DJ'S OF ALL TIME and Herc or Bam or Flash were left off the list and DJ Screw was included East Coast Dj dudes would shit tears.......if you want to make a fun list of your favorite samples i have no problem with that (like i said i enjoyed the list) but when the reader questions the extreme bias of the list it's a little absurd to say nothing outside of your box matters......Anyone who doesn't question some obvious omissions(the last 15 years in sampling) is on some suspect fan boy/homeboy shit IMO....
Did Outkast base their hook on "Myintrotoletyouknow" on Kid Dynamite?
If you got the time I got the time
I don't know if this is a joke I'm missing but I always thought so.
Also, "Return of the Gangster" some of the chords were reminding me of the Friends of Distinction song.
No joke... just was jamming it and it occurred to me.
I was kind of combing the list for Southern/Western stuff with the idea that maybe schitt was underrepresented... There were a number of Dre references so I'm not really sure what dudes are talking about with that.
The Chronic was trying to be Low End Theory which was trying to be Straight Outta Compton which was trying to be Nation Of Millions.
People catching feelings cause "regional samples" aren't on one - or two - particular people's list of "cool samples.
Is anyone besides Shied (who catches feeling about everything) actually catching feelings?
I certainly don't feel a way about it.
My thing is just that discussing the criteria and underlying assumptions of the list is a lot more interesting than a bunch of "Yo, Bob James shoulda been on there!" type poasts.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I'm gonna start a thread for Southern samples.
DO IT. I have some things on deck for it. But before that starts, while Outkast is still on the mind...always loved how they sampled/interpolated/replayed/whatever Worldwide by Allen Toussaint for We Luv Deez Hoes. Doesn't get much more Southern than that.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
The Chronic was trying to be Low End Theory which was trying to be Straight Outta Compton which was trying to be Nation Of Millions.
People catching feelings cause "regional samples" aren't on one - or two - particular people's list of "cool samples.
Is anyone besides Shied (who catches feeling about everything) actually catching feelings?
I certainly don't feel a way about it.
My thing is just that discussing the criteria and underlying assumptions of the list is a lot more interesting than a bunch of "Yo, Bob James shoulda been on there!" type poasts.
I present a firm, unyielding response to common haterism, and I do so like my ass is on fire...but really, the feelings y'all think I catch off of this shit are really non existent. Encountering these dismissive attitudes doesn't surprise me one bit...and Kon & Amir have their own lane, that's fine by me. But for me to suspect that dude was hating....and then for him to come on here and confirm it for us. Shit, I'm at least glad I'm not grasping at straws. But yeah, sorry to everyone for when I go overboard with the internet mack hand there. Not trying to drag down the mood, just trying to chop up the side issues.
Comments
Missing. First Zapp shit.
this was on my list... but i didnt get a chance to submit.
zapp from ohio, pfunk from nj/ny... yet all get heralded as "west coast" sound.
No doubt but ePMD brought it first, when cats were on some JB shit.
thats what im saying... like when people say rock n roll>>> white people music... uhh chuck berry, little richard... i mean they only invented it.
point blank. sure, a few drips/ decent songs form artists sampling from regions outside of nyc/ tri state... but be fucccking real..
its time to put down the pom poms, get off the southern/ texas cheerleading squad. this aint lil kiki and young bozo were speaking on... thats todays shit.
for the sampling era... there was barely a dent made for the influence of sound, and pushing the envelope within this art form.
a mass production loop with some 808 planet rock (nyc) drum biting pattern... aint cutting it against
what a marley marl, paul c, primo, beatnuts, pete rock, buckwild, bombsquad...and so many more.
cmon, steve miller with james brown and lafayette afro rock band, in 86-87 ? stop playin yourself.
By needlessly writing off all southern rap (it felt ridiculous even typing that - I don't understand what could make someone so obsessed with something so nutty) you're building derision towards your viewpoint which probably wouldn't even exist otherwise.
You don't even have to put southern rap samples on your list, you just don't need to go out of your way to constantly talk down on the shit. It makes everything else you're saying sound less reasonable.
jahambo.
Dudes like to claim credit for that but not until it was worth claiming credit for... yahm?
NYC isnt a Zapp town. Growin up i never partied to or heard any Zapp besides More Bounce. Parliment(less Funkadelic) got run due to the Casablanca/Disco run.
NYC radio would play Parliment, but no Zapp at all.
When ePMD dropped that shit it was a BIG deal in terms of mining other sounds.
It's My Thang was already a Classic Break so there was no surprise there.
When i was in College circa 88-91, i heard "I Wanna Be Your Man" and was open. My ladyfriend from Buffalo was like "U never heard of Roger?"
Disco was so dominant, but over the years I learned that everybody else was on some deep Funk shit while NYC was Disco-Ballin or Garage-steez.
And u go far out enuff out of the main hoods in NYC cats are on some Country shit and closer to what the reast of the Local Black EXP was doin....FUNK. So Im not surprised that ePMD brought that Zapp Clapp shit to the table being from Brentwood L.I.
After You Gots To Chill, The West/Souf rocked that Clapp better cause its really 'their' shit.
The Jungle Bros. were the next NY group to try and get that Clapp w/ U Make Me Sweat in '89.
For me, I'd want to try to note that Dr. Dre and Sir Jinx and E-Swift were all doing impressive things out West but inevitably, someone would just claim, "they were just trying to sound like NY cats."
People catching feelings cause "regional samples" aren't on one - or two - particular people's list of "cool samples.
I hear ya - but i dont see the sonic connection btwn Low End Theory and Straight Outta Compton. Yes, Tribe did minimalize their sound compared to Peoples Travels, but I never associated LET w/ SOC. They dropped all that EW&F steez and dressed like regular hood cats, but after that I dont get the "trying" thingy.
I have few problems with Kon and Amir's list; shit is subjective. I had to come up with a Top 30 list for Scratch Magazine and took heat for leaving out all kinds of shit.
But I do think part of this subsequent convo is valid when people want to challenge the primacy of the DITC clique. It's just that you'll never convince some folks of the validity of bringing in producers outside of that NYC circle.
Again and again and again, what a complete ignorant crock of bullshit. Listen to Mr. Scarface Is Back or Til Death Do Us Part or Something Serious or Fadenuf fa Erybody for that matter and tell me the South wasn't sampling its ass off. The difference as you pointed out is that dudes in the South live that shit enough not to have to go scour some euro library nothingness to find sample sources. In the South, Curtis Mayfield or the Isley Brothers is just what gets played in a Cadillac. There's no room for Poindexter to be reaching out into the great beyond for some unfamiliar singular look-at-clever-me bullshit. Dudes stuck to the crates in their mama's living room, the ones that everyone would jam as an already established regular ritual. You don't noodle around looking for the most obscure part of a Vic Juris record as you ain't got time for that bullshit. It's not 2 degrees here for months on end and the lifestyle calls for more life and less nerdery.
But what you really miss in all of this which is just inexplicable is that dudes like Mannie Fresh, Pimp C, Juicy J, Mike Dean, DJ Toomp, etc. were wrecking samples all through that very era. Just because a lot of these dudes left your heroes in the dust career-wise as far as moving on into live instrumentation and such doesn't mean they need to be east coast assholed out of the conversation.
It sucks that not only did you miss all of this as it was happening, despite it being readily available to you. But 20 years later, here you are still pretending that it never happened.
But you are the one who is played out. You try to play that DITC shit (which I actually love) in 95% of real rap clubs for the past 10+ years and you are going to get disregarded right out the door. But if you throw on all sorts of other rap music that has come out since your stupid NYC hey-day, THAT SAMPLES ISH JUST LIKE YOUR 20 YEAR OLD FAVORITES...and you're golden. That's because sampling in hip-hop isn't restricted to what you are calling the "sampling era". Producers still sample all the time. Very clever shit still gets made...didn't see any Jay-Dee samples on your list either...so beyond even the where's-the-South contention, you are ignoring other areas of significant sampling fervor. But yeah, you just keep thinking your biased view is what's hitting and is historically accurate because regardless of anything I could possibly say here, you already barely matter. Goodbye assholes, enjoy the applesauce at the old folks home.
CLASSIC. Samplez fa dayz!
i saw about 50..
what was good about the article was choosing things that have had widespread use in hip hop. thats the bottom line isn't it, not calling out this or that sample from this or that track. despite owning a large number of those i certainly hadn't heard of the Bob Azzam drums, so theres something in there for everyone.
harvey i think whilst your asking the wrong people to comment on your regional rap history, you clearly know so much about it that you probably should do a southern-based samples article yourself. i'd love to read it.
This video still fucking rules.
If you got the time
I got the time
I don't know if this is a joke I'm missing but I always thought so.
Also, "Return of the Gangster" some of the chords were reminding me of the Friends of Distinction song.
No joke... just was jamming it and it occurred to me.
I was kind of combing the list for Southern/Western stuff with the idea that maybe schitt was underrepresented... There were a number of Dre references so I'm not really sure what dudes are talking about with that.
I'm gonna start a thread for Southern samples.
Is anyone besides Shied (who catches feeling about everything) actually catching feelings?
I certainly don't feel a way about it.
My thing is just that discussing the criteria and underlying assumptions of the list is a lot more interesting than a bunch of "Yo, Bob James shoulda been on there!" type poasts.
DO IT. I have some things on deck for it. But before that starts, while Outkast is still on the mind...always loved how they sampled/interpolated/replayed/whatever Worldwide by Allen Toussaint for We Luv Deez Hoes. Doesn't get much more Southern than that.
I present a firm, unyielding response to common haterism, and I do so like my ass is on fire...but really, the feelings y'all think I catch off of this shit are really non existent. Encountering these dismissive attitudes doesn't surprise me one bit...and Kon & Amir have their own lane, that's fine by me. But for me to suspect that dude was hating....and then for him to come on here and confirm it for us. Shit, I'm at least glad I'm not grasping at straws. But yeah, sorry to everyone for when I go overboard with the internet mack hand there. Not trying to drag down the mood, just trying to chop up the side issues.