7/7 & 9/11

BlightyBlighty 225 Posts
edited July 2005 in Off Topic (NRR)
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  • the3rdstreamthe3rdstream 1,980 Posts

    ok the first article's main source is David Shayler who will say anything that will get him in the press or make some money

    the second one is about a nasa scientist who says she had a secret code to a government program called "global clense" or something like that and that 9/11 has been planned since 1987

    this might all seem realistic if i hit the bong about 8 more times

  • BeardedDBeardedD 770 Posts
    This just in-- So and so says such and such.

    Don't get me wrong, I think 9/11 as understood by the general public is pure fiction, but these articles are rubbish.

  • BlightyBlighty 225 Posts
    This just in-- So and so says such and such.

    Don't get me wrong, I think 9/11 as understood by the general public is pure fiction, but these articles are rubbish.

    So what do you think the truth is regarding 9/11? And why do you think these articles are rubbish? Both of you on the second question.

  • the3rdstreamthe3rdstream 1,980 Posts
    And why do you think these articles are rubbish? Both of you on the second question.

    i think i already answered that, the main source for the first one is an idiot who will say anything, and the second article is complete x-files type conspiracy bullshit, and just because some wacko gets another wacko to substatiate something does not mean its true, blighty just because its on the internet does not grant an article instant credibility

  • BlightyBlighty 225 Posts
    And why do you think these articles are rubbish? Both of you on the second question.

    i think i already answered that, the main source for the first one is an idiot who will say anything, and the second article is complete x-files type conspiracy bullshit, and just because some wacko gets another wacko to substatiate something does not mean its true, blighty just because its on the internet does not grant an article instant credibility

    Yes I am aware of the non instant internet credibility thing. Why do you believe Shayler 'an idiot who will say anything'? He seems like a rather intelligent guy to me who worked for MI5 and then blew the whistle on them because he didn't agree with what they were doing. He comes across as very genuine, interesting and intelligent in any article I've read on him. He doesn't come across as someone who's searching for fame or money. He's certainly getting neither by doing interviews with obscure little websites.

    Why do you believe the second article is 'complete x-files type conspiracy bullshit'? Again it's an interesting article which backs what a lot of 'conspiracy theorists' have been claiming for a long long time. Is it true? I do not know just as you don't know if it's 'bullshit'. Well worth reading though. A different angle from the general angle we get from the media and politicians who are most certainly out for fame and money.

    You're very closed minded it seems. Not that that is unusual. But I thank you for your replies.




  • the3rdstreamthe3rdstream 1,980 Posts


    Yes I am aware of the non instant internet credibility thing.
    than why even post this crap up

    Why do you believe Shayler 'an idiot who will say anything'? He seems like a rather intelligent guy to me who worked for MI5 and then blew the whistle on them because he didn't agree with what they were doing. He comes across as very genuine, interesting and intelligent in any article I've read on him. He doesn't come across as someone who's searching for fame or money. He's certainly getting neither by doing interviews with obscure little websites.
    wrong, the guy got in trouble with the MI5 cause he sold[/b] security secrets to a newspaper, so he is seeking riches, and I think he is seeking fame for the exact reason your saying he isn't, by getting on these nut job websites and by pushing the latest conspiracy theory he is trying desperately to keep his name out there

    Why do you believe the second article is 'complete x-files type conspiracy bullshit'?
    well...

    And since she went public in May the harassment stated again, starting in the similar subtle manner it did after she was unexpectedly approached by the Saudis, including the bin Ladens.
    But Welch, instead or running and hiding, is now prepared to fight back hard, making public a 200 page document detailing information obtained about the staging of 9/11, Global Cleanse 2000 and about FBI and CIA civil rights violations.
    ???I???m naming names and want justice,??? added Welch.
    She also said she wants to document her story in a book, starting from the time she was a ???military brat,??? her father being an Air Force B-52 pilot, when at the age of three she displayed exceptional ESP abilities and channeling powers[/b], powers that eventually led her into the NASA program as an adult.
    Concerning the 200 page diaries documenting her FBI troubles and knowledge of 9/11, copies of the documents have previously been sent to several members of the former Clinton White House, including Hillary Clinton, as well as to Taos, NM. former district attorney John Paternoster, who Welch approached in 1995 about government death threats.
    so Hillary didn't know about the Global Clense 2000 (which sounds like a shitting contest)

    and...

    Regarding the ongoing government harassment to keep her quiet, Welch said a two year period in the mid 1990s was most troubling when an agent infiltrated her life, finally using drugs and other types of physical harassment to get information after gaining her trust.[/b]
    and...

    The pair came up with they called the "light and sound" machine[/b], receiving much praise during the 80s for what was thought then to be ground breaking work. It was this project that eventually brought them in contact with the bin Ladens, creating the backdrop for why they both know 9/11 was a staged U.S. government event.
    "They (at NASA) ended up stealing our work and then after the bin Laden incident denied knowing that Rene and I even existed," said Logsdon.
    drugs, esp, light machines... michael moore dosen't even wild out like this

    and she is writing a book (suprise suprise)

    You're very closed minded it seems. Not that that is unusual. But I thank you for your replies.

    you're very gulliable it seems. not that that is unusual.

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts

    Those articles are a bunch of bull. Everyone who is paying attention knows that there were no bombings on 7/7. The claims of bombings was fabricated by the media to sell more papers and advertising. Rubert M looks around, says things are slow and all the sudden comes up with the bombing storys. All the other media, not wanting to be scooped, and wanting an in on the $$$ jumps in. Oh yeah, there was a bombing, and now the police are having a shoot out. whatever it takes to keep the public docile and sell more news.

    Dan

  • edubedub 715 Posts

    The fact that these two articles have little new to say bores me.

    That first one, regardless of if everyone wants to discredit the author, has absolutely nothing new to say. I can say the exact same things with knowledge I already have. Why is it so special when this guys says it?

    That said, i agree with alot of what is brought up, but why is it always these hacks who are the mouthpiece?...


  • volumenvolumen 2,525 Posts
    RIght now the only population being reduced is that of our military, so I don't really see how any of this can be believed.

    Bush and his ilk are crazy and power hungry, but I think all of this gives them too much credit.


    "Bring the boys back home"

  • Quote: "Welch, a licensed hypnotism -therapist and head of the Global Elite Scientist???s Club"

    Licensed hynotism therapist... head of Global Elite Scientist's Club....?




    Oxymoron... or just moron?

    Nice articles though.

    Peace...
    FNM

  • Sun_FortuneSun_Fortune 1,374 Posts
    Can someone school me on the good 9/11 conspiracy theories? I've just started to look into this shit and much of it is just rubbish.
    Can someone answer this though -- how come there are no decent reporters digging dirt on this shit? Its all from people who have thier own agendas. (They always blame the usual suspects -- Israel, UFOs, Rothchilds etc. Is really everyone at the NY Times and Washington Post bought out?) Basically, to buy into any of these conspiracies I find I have to already believe another one. Any starting points would be appreciated.

  • volumenvolumen 2,525 Posts
    Can someone school me on the good 9/11 conspiracy theories? I've just started to look into this shit and much of it is just rubbish.

    Can someone answer this though -- how come there are no decent reporters digging dirt on this shit? Its all from people who have thier own agendas. (They always blame the usual suspects -- Israel, UFOs, Rothchilds etc. Is really everyone at the NY Times and Washington Post bought out?) Basically, to buy into any of these conspiracies I find I have to already believe another one. Any starting points would be appreciated.





    First of all people don't ask question in America. if that was the case Bush wouldn't be president, kids would get a good education, the poor would be fed, etc etc etc The government is a tools used by the rich to keep their bank accounts full. But that a whole 'nother 20 pager. Reporters do what it takes to keep their jobs. And if your article gets the editor bitched out by the President your not going to get far. Plus, if you start asking hard questions people will black ball you and you won't be given interviews. How do you think people get called on at the White House? They play ball. Even if you do ask a tough question people will just lie to your face to get their way..........



    On to 9/11



    1. The government planned the whole thing an actually had the buildings rigged with explosives to make sure they came all the way down.



    2. The government knew what the terrorist were going to do and allowed it to happen so they could be justified in their push into the middle east, specifically Iraq.



    Both these theories have plenty of sub theories, but that's the general overview that starts them.

    The articles posted above would fall under the 1st theory.





    I'm sure there are plenty more, but I would guess these are the 2 major headings that start it all.

  • VitaminVitamin 631 Posts

    I'd start with "The report of the 9-11 Commission." You can also read the executive summaries of their meetings and read the transcripts from their open hearings. Michael Scheuer's books on Afghanistan and Bin Laden are also quite good. He is the former CIA bin laden station chief. I would also read, "The Age of Sacred Terror," by Dan Benjamin and Steve Simon, two former Clinton NSC officials. That book is not about 9-11 per se, but is a very good tour d'horizon of al Qaeda and its history.

    The conspiracy nuts are really degrading the painful memories of the victims of 9-11. There were numerous screw ups regarding 9-11. The Bojinka plot for example envisioned flying airplanes into landmarks and was unraveled in 1996 by Phillipino authorities. There was no actionable plan for invading afghanistan right after 9-11.

  • twoplytwoply 2,903 Posts

    The conspiracy nuts are really degrading the painful memories of the victims of 9-11.

    Kind of like the President when he stopped hunting for Bin Laden and went after Hussein.

  • volumenvolumen 2,525 Posts

    The conspiracy nuts are really degrading the painful memories of the victims of 9-11.

    Kind of like the President when he stopped hunting for Bin Laden and went after Hussein.



    No shit. Dude wen't from "You can't hide....we won't stop the hunt." to "We don't really know where he is...who cares?" CHUMP!!!!!!!!!!! Just like Iraq went from "WMD to Democracy" Yea, now they have a democracy just like us.....a joke that's in total shambles.

  • VitaminVitamin 631 Posts

    The conspiracy nuts are really degrading the painful memories of the victims of 9-11.

    Kind of like the President when he stopped hunting for Bin Laden and went after Hussein.



    No shit. Dude wen't from "You can't hide....we won't stop the hunt." to "We don't really know where he is...who cares?" CHUMP!!!!!!!!!!! Just like Iraq went from "WMD to Democracy" Yea, now they have a democracy just like us.....a joke that's in total shambles.

    Do you think Iraq would be better if we had just left it alone?

  • twoplytwoply 2,903 Posts

    The conspiracy nuts are really degrading the painful memories of the victims of 9-11.

    Kind of like the President when he stopped hunting for Bin Laden and went after Hussein.



    No shit. Dude wen't from "You can't hide....we won't stop the hunt." to "We don't really know where he is...who cares?" CHUMP!!!!!!!!!!! Just like Iraq went from "WMD to Democracy" Yea, now they have a democracy just like us.....a joke that's in total shambles.

    Do you think Iraq would be better if we had just left it alone?

    It could have waited.


  • The conspiracy nuts are really degrading the painful memories of the victims of 9-11.

    Kind of like the President when he stopped hunting for Bin Laden and went after Hussein.



    No shit. Dude wen't from "You can't hide....we won't stop the hunt." to "We don't really know where he is...who cares?" CHUMP!!!!!!!!!!! Just like Iraq went from "WMD to Democracy" Yea, now they have a democracy just like us.....a joke that's in total shambles.

    Do you think Iraq would be better if we had just left it alone?



    Yes.

    It was stable... things worked. Is it better to live a stable life under an authoritarian dictator, or live "free" in a purgatory existing between anarchy and martial law? That's the question.

  • BeardedDBeardedD 770 Posts
    I don't think anyone with an open mind who looks into Building 7 could possibly continue to believe nobody knew what was going to happen on 9/11. And there's basically no evidence that a 757 hit the pentagon, but tons of evidence of a massive coverup around that mysteriously obscure event. Do a google. I don't claim to have any answers as to who did what, but the United States certainly has a well-documented history of staging / allowing attacks in order to go to war.

    And the best way to dishonor the memory of those who died is to refuse to entertain the idea that we are not being told the truth.

    Anthrax, anyone?

  • SwayzeSwayze 14,705 Posts
    Altho I realize that american people often say "we", as in any action, I find it quite "bleeeehhh" and discomforting that Vitamin says "we" and not "they".

    Blah blah, i'm from Europe, blah blah.

    I'd like to add tho, the female story doesn't seem so far fetched. Oil & over-population have been issues for decades.

    A more focused point...

    What would people say if she'd be killed within a month or two? Just a hypothecical question... or went "mysteriously" missing...

    Really...

    I'm not saying everybody should be a conspiracy nut/practicain/follower,

    but as "philosophy" says,

    Question everything...[/b]



    Peace.












    I'm pretty faded

  • LaserWolfLaserWolf Portland Oregon 11,518 Posts
    What happened to the people on United flight 77?

    Are they alive and are being held in Guantanamo?

    Have they had their memories replaced with new ones?

    If flight 77 did not fly into the pentagon, where did it go?

    Was there never a flight 77? Always on the scheduled, but never booked or flown?

    Opps, I'm sorry, thats not the point, I shouldn't be looking at little details, that are often wrong, I should look at the big picture.

    Dan




  • p_gunnp_gunn 2,284 Posts
    "But I saw the plans back in the 1980s and after 9/11. I know it is going to happen unless we quickly get Bush out of power.???"

    so, the conspiracy dates to 1987, but we can stop it if we get Bush (2000-2008) out of power?????

  • SoulOnIceSoulOnIce 13,027 Posts
    "But I saw the plans back in the 1980s and after 9/11. I know it is going to happen unless we quickly get Bush keep Yale alumni out of power.???"

  • coffinjoecoffinjoe 1,743 Posts
    I don't think anyone with an open mind who looks into the United States well-documented history of staging / allowing attacks in order to go to war.

    And the best way to dishonor the memory of those who died is to refuse to entertain the idea that we are not being told the truth.

    cuba, anyone?

    what was that 40 year old pentagon/cia secret plan to commit covert acts of terrorism in the US to promote a conflict with castro

    history don't repeat itself, do it ?

  • motown67motown67 4,513 Posts
    I don't think anyone with an open mind who looks into the United States well-documented history of staging / allowing attacks in order to go to war.

    And the best way to dishonor the memory of those who died is to refuse to entertain the idea that we are not being told the truth.

    cuba, anyone?

    what was that 40 year old pentagon/cia secret plan to commit covert acts of terrorism in the US to promote a conflict with castro

    history don't repeat itself, do it ?

    I'm really sorry to say but the U.S. didn't need to stage anything to have a conflict with Castro. They had a multi-million dollar campaign to try to assassinate him, to train and arm anti-Castro Cubans who were making daily attacks on the place. America was in such an anti-communist furor at that time that the U.S. didn't need much provocation, let alone a "secret plan to commit covert acts of terrorism in the US" to get its panties in a knot about Cuba and Castro.

  • coffinjoecoffinjoe 1,743 Posts

    I'm really sorry to say but the U.S. didn't need to stage anything to have a conflict with Castro. They had a multi-million dollar campaign to try to assassinate him, to train and arm anti-Castro Cubans who were making daily attacks on the place. America was in such an anti-communist furor at that time that the U.S. didn't need much provocation, let alone a "secret plan to commit covert acts of terrorism in the US" to get its panties in a knot about Cuba and Castro.

    yeah, i know....but....


    "Operation Northwoods was a document drafted in 1962 by the Joint
    Chiefs of Staff and presented to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara
    (and possibly President John F. Kennedy himself) on March 13, 1962.
    Long believed to be residing in the imagination of conspiracy
    theorists, the document was declassified in recent years by the
    Freedom of Information Act. "



  • volumenvolumen 2,525 Posts

    The conspiracy nuts are really degrading the painful memories of the victims of 9-11.

    Kind of like the President when he stopped hunting for Bin Laden and went after Hussein.



    No shit. Dude wen't from "You can't hide....we won't stop the hunt." to "We don't really know where he is...who cares?" CHUMP!!!!!!!!!!! Just like Iraq went from "WMD to Democracy" Yea, now they have a democracy just like us.....a joke that's in total shambles.

    Do you think Iraq would be better if we had just left it alone?


    It's easy to list all the horrible things that went on in Iraq. But plenty of horrible things go on in this county. They would still be under a ruthless dictator, but they wouldn't have endless suicide bomings, and a foriegn country up thier ass. It's not like we don't have tons of opression going on over here. The problem is that many Americans (Bush included) act like we have some perfect country that everyone should replicate. But the reality is that we are constantly loseing our "freedom". The cops kill innocent people all the time. The government covers shit up. People still live in rampant poverty while a small minority profit of the backs of others. For fuck sakes what's so bad about a gay guy smoking some weed with his husband? Bush would have you believe it's the end of the world and has to be stopped. That's an opressive dictator. Just cuz our dicatorship is comprised of several rulers, doesn't make it any better.

  • VitaminVitamin 631 Posts


    It's easy to list all the horrible things that went on in Iraq. But plenty of horrible things go on in this county. They would still be under a ruthless dictator, but they wouldn't have endless suicide bomings, and a foriegn country up thier ass. It's not like we don't have tons of opression going on over here. The problem is that many Americans (Bush included) act like we have some perfect country that everyone should replicate. But the reality is that we are constantly loseing our "freedom". The cops kill innocent people all the time. The government covers shit up. People still live in rampant poverty while a small minority profit of the backs of others. For fuck sakes what's so bad about a gay guy smoking some weed with his husband? Bush would have you believe it's the end of the world and has to be stopped. That's an opressive dictator. Just cuz our dicatorship is comprised of several rulers, doesn't make it any better.

    If that's your attitude did you vote in the last election? If you were harrassed by police officers unfairly would you seek compensation in court or talk to an ombudsman? And do you know of mass graves in America? Are you aware of the president's opponents being fed to shredding machines? Do you know of an arm of the FBI whose sole purpose is to rape the daughters and wives of the president's political rivals? Could you tell me when an American president used chemical weapons on an ethnic minority as part of a campaign to move them en masse to detention centers? Has the president shut down any newspapers that print stories he disagrees with? Headz wanna know homey.

  • BeardedDBeardedD 770 Posts
    The good old right wing let's grade our own performance on the lowest standard we can find argument.
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