Daze, that's exactly how people get 'accidently' shot. There is no reason for the police officer to believe he was in immediate danger. You don't point at, let alone put your finger on the trigger until you have decided there is a good chance you're gonna shoot. Basic gun safety: finger off trigger, aim, safety off, finger on trigger, squeeze. Guns don't kill people...
I agree with Frank that when a policeman breaks the law while on duty the penalty should be more severe.....they are being paid to uphold the law, not break it.
As far as the problem with police in general goes I'll give my opinion...
There are 800,000 policeman employed in the U.S. You take any random 800,000 people of the same profession, ethnicity, religion, etc., etc. a certain percentage of them are going to be low life scumbags....and police are not immune from this equation.
Take that along with the fact that the job of being a police officer sucks....the pay is average, the risk is tremendous and your dealing with a lot of low life scum which I imagine after a while tends to blur your perception. Not too many professions require that you take daily verbal abuse for simply perfoming your job.
The people who tend to want to become policeman have a personality that is attracted to danger and sometimes unfortunately, power. And this power can, and often does, corrupt. There are policeman out there who see how crime does indeed pay and they cross over to that side of the law.....plenty of police corruption out there. Some let the power go to their head and think they are above the law, and yet others are so scared shitless on a daily basis that they overreact when in the face of danger. I'm not sure what my reaction would be but I'm also smart enough to know I'm not cut out to be a cop.
There were approximately 200 people killed by police in the U.S. in 2007. About 30% of those were determined to be questionable and the officers were prosecuted. One person being unlawfully killed by the police is too many, but 200 by a police force of 800,000 is 0.025% of the officers. Put that into perspective...1 out of every 4,000 policeman were involved in a citizen being killed. Hardly a majority or anything close to one. And for the record approximately 200 police are killed on the job each year as well.
On a somewhat related note there was a news story last week about a 19 year old who raped and killed his own 17 year old sister....everyone involved said he was a great guy with no obvious problems....he was a week away from becoming a soldier....if he had gone overseas and committed a similar crime he would have been a "fucked up Soldier".....in reality he's just a "fucked up human" who happened to choose to become a soldier.
Some of these cops are fucked up humans who chose to be cops and somehow fooled a police force into hiring them. As someone with family members who are police officers I can tell you that the folks who do NOT pass the physical and emotional screenings to become a cop are REALLY fusked up.
So what's the answer.....punish any rogue cop to the maximum the law allows...... do a better job of hiring and training......encourage positive interaction between the force and the community.
Personally, I respect the police knowing that they are doing something miserable and nearly thankless. I've had bad experiences with police, when you look like me it comes with the territory. But I judge them as individuals, not on some "F*ck Tha Police" nonsense. I've met some that should not have a badge, and I've met some that have saved many people's lives. Batmon has told some stories about his policeman dad that left me with the impression that he was a damn good dude. I don't want to ever suggest "F*ck Batmon's Dad"......but that is what we do when we throw them all in the same box.
This BART incident is a terrible tragedy and the Cop needs to be accountable. He'll have a real nice Welcome Wagon waiting for him when he gets to prison. He'll probably wish he was handed a death sentence.
RIP Oscar Grant
F*ck A Criminal Cop
Thanks to the majority of the police who do their job correctly and with integrity.....these criminal cops make your job infinitely harder.
Nowadays, they won't even train you, let alone hire you to be a cop unless your IQ is BELOW a certain level.
Source?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Rich, you are ignoring the institutional racism that goes along with being a cop, intending-to-be-a-good cop or not. You counted up 200 killings, but how many undeserving civilians were restrained, beaten, tased, arrested under shady pretenses, racially profiled, given inordinate sentences after getting thrown into the court by the cops, etc?
This is far from a certain-percentage-of-bad-seeds issue and you really should get up to speed on it as you look albeit well-intentioned, but ultimately ignorant by not.
Apparently Mistah FAB (who was at the protest) just released an Oscar Grant tribute song. Haven't heard it yet and I can't cut 'n paste but if no one beats me to it I'll up it in a few hours from home.
Daze, that's exactly how people get 'accidently' shot. There is no reason for the police officer to believe he was in immediate danger. You don't point at, let alone put your finger on the trigger until you have decided there is a good chance you're gonna shoot. Basic gun safety: finger off trigger, aim, safety off, finger on trigger, squeeze. Guns don't kill people...
agreed...but I believe if you carry a pistol you should ALWAYS have it chambered and decocked. Decocked means you'll have about a 10 lb trigger pull because it's in dual action mode which means you pretty much have to intend to pull the trigger. If it's cocked then that's single action which is like a 2 to 3 pound pull which is what people refer to as a hair trigger. noone carries a pistol chambered and cocked unless they're an idiot.
Cops always have to assume they'll be in immediate danger at any given moment, that shit comes with the turf. THAT cop however, drew and shot when it was nowhere near necessary.
all I'm saying is if a cop has to draw his weapon it should be ready to go at a seconds notice. I just don't think cops should pull their weapons anywhere near as much as they do.
I had a long conversation about this with my pops today. He was a reserve way back when, and he said when cops are on duty they roll with the safety off & a round in the chamber.
Apparently Mistah FAB (who was at the protest) just released an Oscar Grant tribute song. Haven't heard it yet and I can't cut 'n paste but if no one beats me to it I'll up it in a few hours from home.
Yup, he spoke then Zion from Zion I spoke. This right before the gathering ended and everyone began marching.
Apparently Mistah FAB (who was at the protest) just released an Oscar Grant tribute song. Haven't heard it yet and I can't cut 'n paste but if no one beats me to it I'll up it in a few hours from home.
that was ridiculously well put...righton the money. i didnt even realize that one of the reasons that i am so frustrated and mad and practically crying is that the cop that killed oscar grant is not in any form of custody right now and hasnt even opened his f*cking mouth to defend himself or explain himself
definitely a ridiculous double standard....kill/hurt a cop, you are held to the strictest penalties and you probably "fall down" a lot when arrested and taken in...get killed/hurt by a cop, usually not a damn thing happens to the cop. It enrages me when crimes AGIANST the police are held to be more serious crimes than if ANYONE else is killed/hurt...that is bullshit, it seems that if you decided to become a polic officer, you know the score...you know what might happen to you...but somehow it is more of crime to harm a policeman, then it is to harm , say, an elderly person. WHY?
definitely a ridiculous double standard....kill/hurt a cop, you are held to the strictest penalties and you probably "fall down" a lot when arrested and taken in...get killed/hurt by a cop, usually not a damn thing happens to the cop. It enrages me when crimes AGIANST the police are held to be more serious crimes than if ANYONE else is killed/hurt...that is bullshit, it seems that if you decided to become a polic officer, you know the score...you know what might happen to you...but somehow it is more of crime to harm a policeman, then it is to harm , say, an elderly person. WHY?
cause they are allowed to step to people with guns recipe for disaster
Thanks for the Pittsburgh perspective on Oakland's history.
Boots agrees with my point about the lack of effective leadership. Although he would definitely tell me to STFU if I tried to tell him about Oakland history.
I just hope he pays dearly and ends up with a WHOLE lot more than some bullshit wrist slap. I have a feeling the department no longer has his back (due to his resignation). I'm thinking some of the officers involved in the situation were like "what the f*ck did you just do?!"
I know Moist'll probably jump on his "ZOMG! APOLOGIST!" tirade, but I'm willing to bet some of those other officers in that video are just as pissed as the general public. I don't care who you are, there is NO justifying what he did.
I just hope he pays dearly and ends up with a WHOLE lot more than some bullshit wrist slap. I have a feeling the department no longer has his back (due to his resignation). I'm thinking some of the officers involved in the situation were like "what the f*ck did you just do?!"
I know Moist'll probably jump on his "ZOMG! APOLOGIST!" tirade, but I'm willing to bet some of those other officers in that video are just as pissed as the general public. I don't care who you are, there is NO justifying what he did.
I'm willing to bet some of those other officers in that video are just as pissed as the general public. I don't care who you are, there is NO justifying what he did.
^^^^ ZOMG! APOLOGIST! I was listening to Shade45 tonight (satellite radio in the rental-related) and both Kay Slay AND F.A.B. said the exact same thing...so take THAT, Moist!
There was another demonstration tonight in downtown Oakland that turned into another mini-riot.
I hate it when folks abuse a necessary freedom like a people's protest. Can you image if King's March on Washington or the Bus Boycott had been fucked up by selfish, advantageous looters? Talk about burying the message.
Comments
As far as the problem with police in general goes I'll give my opinion...
There are 800,000 policeman employed in the U.S. You take any random 800,000 people of the same profession, ethnicity, religion, etc., etc. a certain percentage of them are going to be low life scumbags....and police are not immune from this equation.
Take that along with the fact that the job of being a police officer sucks....the pay is average, the risk is tremendous and your dealing with a lot of low life scum which I imagine after a while tends to blur your perception. Not too many professions require that you take daily verbal abuse for simply perfoming your job.
The people who tend to want to become policeman have a personality that is attracted to danger and sometimes unfortunately, power. And this power can, and often does, corrupt. There are policeman out there who see how crime does indeed pay and they cross over to that side of the law.....plenty of police corruption out there. Some let the power go to their head and think they are above the law, and yet others are so scared shitless on a daily basis that they overreact when in the face of danger. I'm not sure what my reaction would be but I'm also smart enough to know I'm not cut out to be a cop.
There were approximately 200 people killed by police in the U.S. in 2007. About 30% of those were determined to be questionable and the officers were prosecuted. One person being unlawfully killed by the police is too many, but 200 by a police force of 800,000 is 0.025% of the officers. Put that into perspective...1 out of every 4,000 policeman were involved in a citizen being killed. Hardly a majority or anything close to one. And for the record approximately 200 police are killed on the job each year as well.
On a somewhat related note there was a news story last week about a 19 year old who raped and killed his own 17 year old sister....everyone involved said he was a great guy with no obvious problems....he was a week away from becoming a soldier....if he had gone overseas and committed a similar crime he would have been a "fucked up Soldier".....in reality he's just a "fucked up human" who happened to choose to become a soldier.
Some of these cops are fucked up humans who chose to be cops and somehow fooled a police force into hiring them. As someone with family members who are police officers I can tell you that the folks who do NOT pass the physical and emotional screenings to become a cop are REALLY fusked up.
So what's the answer.....punish any rogue cop to the maximum the law allows...... do a better job of hiring and training......encourage positive interaction between the force and the community.
Personally, I respect the police knowing that they are doing something miserable and nearly thankless. I've had bad experiences with police, when you look like me it comes with the territory. But I judge them as individuals, not on some "F*ck Tha Police" nonsense. I've met some that should not have a badge, and I've met some that have saved many people's lives. Batmon has told some stories about his policeman dad that left me with the impression that he was a damn good dude. I don't want to ever suggest "F*ck Batmon's Dad"......but that is what we do when we throw them all in the same box.
This BART incident is a terrible tragedy and the Cop needs to be accountable. He'll have a real nice Welcome Wagon waiting for him when he gets to prison. He'll probably wish he was handed a death sentence.
RIP Oscar Grant
F*ck A Criminal Cop
Thanks to the majority of the police who do their job correctly and with integrity.....these criminal cops make your job infinitely harder.
And your job sucks to begin with.
Source?
This is far from a certain-percentage-of-bad-seeds issue and you really should get up to speed on it as you look albeit well-intentioned, but ultimately ignorant by not.
agreed...but I believe if you carry a pistol you should ALWAYS have it chambered and decocked. Decocked means you'll have about a 10 lb trigger pull because it's in dual action mode which means you pretty much have to intend to pull the trigger. If it's cocked then that's single action which is like a 2 to 3 pound pull which is what people refer to as a hair trigger. noone carries a pistol chambered and cocked unless they're an idiot.
Cops always have to assume they'll be in immediate danger at any given moment, that shit comes with the turf. THAT cop however, drew and shot when it was nowhere near necessary.
all I'm saying is if a cop has to draw his weapon it should be ready to go at a seconds notice. I just don't think cops should pull their weapons anywhere near as much as they do.
Yup, he spoke then Zion from Zion I spoke. This right before the gathering ended and everyone began marching.
http://sharebee.com/9ebcf940
Youth Radio Commentary
that was ridiculously well put...righton the money. i didnt even realize that one of the reasons that i am so frustrated and mad and practically crying is that the cop that killed oscar grant is not in any form of custody right now and hasnt even opened his f*cking mouth to defend himself or explain himself
Green Lantern & Uncle Murdah
cause they are allowed to step to people with guns
recipe for disaster
I've only been to the Bay a few times, but I'm assuming a BART boycott is out of the question?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/12/BAMF1585T4.DTL
According to that, it's up to the DA to decide if charges need to be pressed.
And there was another march, this time in S.F.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/12/BA5H159265.DTL
Oscar Grant III Protest.
Boots agrees with my point about the lack of effective leadership. Although he would definitely tell me to STFU if I tried to tell him about Oakland history.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/13/BAM615A08A.DTL
NEVADA! Yeah, tomorrow's rally in downtown Oakland is gonna be HUGE. Finalmente there has been some movement forward...we'll see how that goes.
ANYONE PLANNING TO GO?
Yes.
I just hope he pays dearly and ends up with a WHOLE lot more than some bullshit wrist slap. I have a feeling the department no longer has his back (due to his resignation). I'm thinking some of the officers involved in the situation were like "what the f*ck did you just do?!"
I know Moist'll probably jump on his "ZOMG! APOLOGIST!" tirade, but I'm willing to bet some of those other officers in that video are just as pissed as the general public. I don't care who you are, there is NO justifying what he did.
^^^^
ZOMG! APOLOGIST!
about time he got arrested
^^^^
ZOMG! APOLOGIST!
I was listening to Shade45 tonight (satellite radio in the rental-related) and both Kay Slay AND F.A.B. said the exact same thing...so take THAT, Moist!
ha! Me too for the past week. Soul Town is deeper than your average top 40 station, that's for sure.
I hate it when folks abuse a necessary freedom like a people's protest. Can you image if King's March on Washington or the Bus Boycott had been fucked up by selfish, advantageous looters? Talk about burying the message.