I give that claim no credence. Even if the weapons felt similar, that argument hardly negates the facts that he had a round in the chamber and the safety off.
i was watching news coverage of this and they interviewed a police officer/expert type dude and asked him to analyze the tape. He pointed out that tazers are always worn on the non dominant side of your holster. So, if you are right handed your trigger finger is your right hand and your fire arm is on your right side. You keep the tazer on the opposite side in a reverse holstered position. Basically, the tazer is on the opposite side of your gun and it's holstered in a reverse position, so if you reached for it it's backwards.
unfortunately, look at what some tazer guns look like.
As mentioned before, they should have moved the train. Nothing is gained from 100s of people staring and yelling at the cops. It's good that so many people witnessed what happened, but I get the feeling that the train full of people did not help the situation. They should have just taken the guys off the platform.
Watching the video makes me feel sick at the moment of the gunshot. It's like two lives are over in an instant.
I was commenting on a call to ban a [edit]mostly[/edit]non-lethal weapon in a thread that is about the death of a young person by a consistently lethal weapon.
No dude. The point about the Taser is that the "leading" (though speculative) defense of the moment is that the officer mistook his gun for a Taser.
In other words, "oops, I meant to Tase that kid, not put a 9mm slug in his back. My bad."
Hence "Ban Tasers," so dumbass cops can't use that as excuse for using lethal force "by accident."
I just watched it again. That same motherfucker swung on another kid in the beginning and then DRAGGED Oscar Grant after he shot him. You can see it right as the doors are closing.
People are pissed off and they have every f*ckin right to be. This is murder.
I'm sure he understands that, but I think his argument is don't blame the tazer for what the cop did. It's a legitimate argument. I don't know if I would ban the tazer but I do think it is abused. I think similar restrictions to use of a lethal firearm should be put in place, like very distinct situations in which it can be used and strong reprimand for abuse or failing to follow regulation.
It seems like while a cop has to be in a very serious situation and able to completely justify even drawing his firearm, the tazer is just there for use at their discretion, which everyone knows can be poor, especially when the cop is scared.
they should have moved the train. Nothing is gained from 100s of people staring and yelling at the cops. It's good that so many people witnessed what happened, but I get the feeling that the train full of people did not help the situation. They should have just taken the guys off the platform.
Watching the video makes me feel sick at the moment of the gunshot. It's like two lives are over in an instant.
I'm not crying tears over any f*cking police cars but smashing up a Toyota Corolla of a school teacher? A braid store while the owner is in there with her baby? I do not understand mob mentality.
agent provacateurs?? infiltrate an otherwise peaceful protest, initiate destruction of property, discredit peaceful protesters and provide justification for repression...
I'm not crying tears over any f*cking police cars but smashing up a Toyota Corolla of a school teacher? A braid store while the owner is in there with her baby? I do not understand mob mentality.
agent provacateurs?? infiltrate an otherwise peaceful protest, initiate destruction of property, discredit peaceful protesters and provide justification for repression...
This is exactly what happened in Greece.....more than half of those arrested were not Greek citizens........low life scum provacateurs who take any opportunity to wreak havoc against "the man"......if there is a fire these fools will show up and throw gasoline on it....and when it's over they go back to their miserable lives with no regard or remorse for destroying property and neighborhodds where they don't reside.....and ultimately give a bad rep to those who participate in legal, peaceful and meaningful protest.
The key difference that you seem to be missing Rock, is that agent provocateurs work for the police or some other government entity. They have been used in the past (ie Cointelpro) but I really really doubt that was what happened the other night.
I was commenting on a call to ban a [edit]mostly[/edit]non-lethal weapon in a thread that is about the death of a young person by a consistently lethal weapon.
No dude. The point about the Taser is that the "leading" (though speculative) defense of the moment is that the officer mistook his gun for a Taser.
In other words, "oops, I meant to Tase that kid, not put a 9mm slug in his back. My bad."
Hence "Ban Tasers," so dumbass cops can't use that as excuse for using lethal force "by accident."
Whatever, dude. Like I said in a subsequent post, the taser defense is moot. The officer had the safety off and a round in the chamber. That is negligent. But sure, ban tasers. They are often abused and have proven lethal several hundred times. I just don't buy that a taser ban would have saved this life, and seems like a weird thing to focus on when such an aggregious act of force with a pistol took place.
I give that claim no credence. Even if the weapons felt similar, that argument hardly negates the facts that he had a round in the chamber and the safety off.
That's what I'm saying. I'm no weapons expert, but don't you have to pull the slide back and load a round before you fire a pistol? To say nothing of the safety. You're a transit cop, not Jack Bauer. Your piece should be in full lockdown mode.
they should have moved the train. Nothing is gained from 100s of people staring and yelling at the cops. It's good that so many people witnessed what happened, but I get the feeling that the train full of people did not help the situation. They should have just taken the guys off the platform.
Watching the video makes me feel sick at the moment of the gunshot. It's like two lives are over in an instant.
I'm not defending the cop at all or expressing sympathy for him. he fucked up and deserves whatever is coming to him. I'm just saying that it's some heavy shit to actually see two lives change in an instant like that.
i watched CNN every other second during this period and nothing
and canadian forget about it
how do you bay7 cats explain this
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
BAN TAZERS ONCE AND FOR ALL!
Tazers? He was shot to death with a pistol.
Read up on your read ups.
So, he wasn't shot to death with a pistol.
I was commenting on a call to ban a [edit]mostly[/edit]non-lethal weapon in a thread that is about the death of a young person by a consistently lethal weapon.
No dude. The point about the Taser is that the "leading" (though speculative) defense of the moment is that the officer mistook his gun for a Taser.
In other words, "oops, I meant to Tase that kid, not put a 9mm slug in his back. My bad."
Hence "Ban Tasers," so dumbass cops can't use that as excuse for using lethal force "by accident."
Whatever, dude. Like I said in a subsequent post, the taser defense is moot. The officer had the safety off and a round in the chamber. That is negligent. But sure, ban tasers. They are often abused and have proven lethal several hundred times. I just don't buy that a taser ban would have saved this life, and seems like a weird thing to focus on when such an aggregious act of force with a pistol took place.
Pistols aren't about to get banned. The dude will certainly get fired/jailed/sued, I hope. But yeah, BAN THOSE DAMNED TASERS NOW! They aren't sidearms, they are torture devices...so by definition, any use of them is a misuse. They are far too often abused, they do prove lethal far too often, and now cops are pulling guns thinking they're only pulling tasers. THEY NEED TO BE BANNED AND YOU NEED TO AGREE!
Whatever, dude. Like I said in a subsequent post, the taser defense is moot. The officer had the safety off and a round in the chamber. That is negligent. But sure, ban tasers. They are often abused and have proven lethal several hundred times. I just don't buy that a taser ban would have saved this life, and seems like a weird thing to focus on when such an aggregious act of force with a pistol took place.
You're absolutely right. But the point was: It. Was. A. Joke.
I don't think anyone was seriously calling for a ban on tasers. The joke was pointing out how vacuous the taser defense is to begin with.
That's one of the most disguting things I've ever seen. Seriously, I think there's something going very wrong with this society and its police force.
If anything, cops should be punished harder than civilians. They are paid to serve and protect after all and it's the people who put a gun in their hands to do this job. If then a police officer turns around and kills or injures a citizen, this should be considdered an even bigger crime than one citizen shooting another.
It should be unacceptable that obviously pretty much the entire people are aware that police officers often manage to get away with murder or receive much more lenient punishment than what a civilian could expect.
How could things have gone so far? Could it be be that the police force is being so underpaid that too many people become officers who should never be allowed to carry a gun nor a badge? Do offenders in uniform not get punished properly because the legal system rather loses its credibility than risking an understaffed police force?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Nowadays, they won't even train you, let alone hire you to be a cop unless your IQ is BELOW a certain level.
That's one of the most disguting things I've ever seen. Seriously, I think there's something going very wrong with this society and its police force.
If anything, cops should be punished harder than civilians. They are paid to serve and protect after all and it's the people who put a gun in their hands to do this job. If then a police officer turns around and kills or injures a citizen, this should be considdered an even bigger crime than one citizen shooting another.
It should be unacceptable that obviously pretty much the entire people are aware that police officers often manage to get away with murder or receive much more lenient punishment than what a civilian could expect.
How could things have gone so far? Could it be be that the police force is being so underpaid that too many people become officers who should never be allowed to carry a gun nor a badge? Do offenders in uniform not get punished properly because the legal system rather loses its credibility than risking an understaffed police force?
I think it's simpler than that. For the vast majority of Americans, police are seen as the "good guys" and there is a general belief that if they shoot someone, it's presumed justified until overwhelmingly proved not. And in the case where the victim is a black male, you have the added, overwhelming presumption of their guilt.
Imagine, instead, if a cop shot an unarmed young white mother, in the back, laying on the floor, with multiple videos? Game over.
I saw this snippet of some TV show, either Cops or something simular recently where they strapped a naked woman o a chair, pulled a cotton bag over her head and left her in a cell like that. The fact that shit like this is being aired for entertainment purposes made it even more sickening and perverse.
I give that claim no credence. Even if the weapons felt similar, that argument hardly negates the facts that he had a round in the chamber and the safety off.
That's what I'm saying. I'm no weapons expert, but don't you have to pull the slide back and load a round before you fire a pistol? To say nothing of the safety. You're a transit cop, not Jack Bauer. Your piece should be in full lockdown mode.
ummm I'm pretty sure it's standard for any cop to roll with one in the chamber. Shit, I would. F*ck lockdown mode, If I'm a cop and I got some fuckhead coming at me with a knife or a gun, do I REALLY want to be concerned with chambering a round? HELL NO.
yeah that cop was an idiot but not because he had one in the chamber. That's standard protocol as far as I know.
I give that claim no credence. Even if the weapons felt similar, that argument hardly negates the facts that he had a round in the chamber and the safety off.
That's what I'm saying. I'm no weapons expert, but don't you have to pull the slide back and load a round before you fire a pistol? To say nothing of the safety. You're a transit cop, not Jack Bauer. Your piece should be in full lockdown mode.
ummm I'm pretty sure it's standard for any cop to roll with one in the chamber. Shit, I would. F*ck lockdown mode, If I'm a cop and I got some fuckhead coming at me with a knife or a gun, do I REALLY want to be concerned with chambering a round? HELL NO.
yeah that cop was an idiot but not because he had one in the chamber. That's standard protocol as far as I know.
In any case, I don't think the video shows him chambering a round. He pulls, points, shoots.
I give that claim no credence. Even if the weapons felt similar, that argument hardly negates the facts that he had a round in the chamber and the safety off.
That's what I'm saying. I'm no weapons expert, but don't you have to pull the slide back and load a round before you fire a pistol? To say nothing of the safety. You're a transit cop, not Jack Bauer. Your piece should be in full lockdown mode.
ummm I'm pretty sure it's standard for any cop to roll with one in the chamber. Shit, I would. F*ck lockdown mode, If I'm a cop and I got some fuckhead coming at me with a knife or a gun, do I REALLY want to be concerned with chambering a round? HELL NO.
yeah that cop was an idiot but not because he had one in the chamber. That's standard protocol as far as I know.
The question in my previous post was telepathically directed at you, Daze, because I know you be knowing these things, so thanks for weighing in.
It seems a little extreme for a transit cop to be rolling like that, but that's just me. Maybe BART has a seamy underbelly I didn't see when I rode it this summer.
Pistol S.O.P. aside, dude shouldn't have been pulling out at all. That, I think, we've all agreed on.
Comments
unfortunately, look at what some tazer guns look like.
As mentioned before, they should have moved the train. Nothing is gained from 100s of people staring and yelling at the cops. It's good that so many people witnessed what happened, but I get the feeling that the train full of people did not help the situation. They should have just taken the guys off the platform.
Watching the video makes me feel sick at the moment of the gunshot. It's like two lives are over in an instant.
No dude. The point about the Taser is that the "leading" (though speculative) defense of the moment is that the officer mistook his gun for a Taser.
In other words, "oops, I meant to Tase that kid, not put a 9mm slug in his back. My bad."
Hence "Ban Tasers," so dumbass cops can't use that as excuse for using lethal force "by accident."
People are pissed off and they have every f*ckin right to be. This is murder.
blame the tazer for what the cop did. It's a legitimate argument.
I don't know if I would ban the tazer but I do think it is abused.
I think similar restrictions to use of a lethal firearm should be
put in place, like very distinct situations in which it can be used
and strong reprimand for abuse or failing to follow regulation.
It seems like while a cop has to be in a very serious situation and
able to completely justify even drawing his firearm, the tazer is just
there for use at their discretion, which everyone knows can be poor,
especially when the cop is scared.
I don't think that's gonna happen this time. If it does...
agent provacateurs?? infiltrate an otherwise peaceful protest, initiate destruction of property, discredit peaceful protesters and provide justification for repression...
This is exactly what happened in Greece.....more than half of those arrested were not Greek citizens........low life scum provacateurs who take any opportunity to wreak havoc against "the man"......if there is a fire these fools will show up and throw gasoline on it....and when it's over they go back to their miserable lives with no regard or remorse for destroying property and neighborhodds where they don't reside.....and ultimately give a bad rep to those who participate in legal, peaceful and meaningful protest.
Whatever, dude. Like I said in a subsequent post, the taser defense is moot. The officer had the safety off and a round in the chamber. That is negligent. But sure, ban tasers. They are often abused and have proven lethal several hundred times. I just don't buy that a taser ban would have saved this life, and seems like a weird thing to focus on when such an aggregious act of force with a pistol took place.
That's what I'm saying. I'm no weapons expert, but don't you have to pull the slide back and load a round before you fire a pistol? To say nothing of the safety. You're a transit cop, not Jack Bauer. Your piece should be in full lockdown mode.
I'm not defending the cop at all or expressing sympathy for him. he fucked up and deserves whatever is coming to him. I'm just saying that it's some heavy shit to actually see two lives change in an instant like that.
i watched CNN every other second during this period and nothing
and canadian forget about it
how do you bay7 cats explain this
Pistols aren't about to get banned. The dude will certainly get fired/jailed/sued, I hope. But yeah, BAN THOSE DAMNED TASERS NOW! They aren't sidearms, they are torture devices...so by definition, any use of them is a misuse. They are far too often abused, they do prove lethal far too often, and now cops are pulling guns thinking they're only pulling tasers. THEY NEED TO BE BANNED AND YOU NEED TO AGREE!
CNN was all over it this morning.
The riot or the whole story?
You're absolutely right. But the point was: It. Was. A. Joke.
I don't think anyone was seriously calling for a ban on tasers. The joke was pointing out how vacuous the taser defense is to begin with.
The whole story???the shooting, the resignation, the peaceful protests, and the rioting.
I agree.
Seriously, I think there's something going very wrong with this society and its police force.
If anything, cops should be punished harder than civilians.
They are paid to serve and protect after all and it's the people who put a gun in their hands to do this job. If then a police officer turns around and kills or injures a citizen, this should be considdered an even bigger crime than one citizen shooting another.
It should be unacceptable that obviously pretty much the entire people are aware that police officers often manage to get away with murder or receive much more lenient punishment than what a civilian could expect.
How could things have gone so far?
Could it be be that the police force is being so underpaid that too many people become officers who should never be allowed to carry a gun nor a badge? Do offenders in uniform not get punished properly because the legal system rather loses its credibility than risking an understaffed police force?
I think it's simpler than that. For the vast majority of Americans, police are seen as the "good guys" and there is a general belief that if they shoot someone, it's presumed justified until overwhelmingly proved not. And in the case where the victim is a black male, you have the added, overwhelming presumption of their guilt.
Imagine, instead, if a cop shot an unarmed young white mother, in the back, laying on the floor, with multiple videos? Game over.
ummm I'm pretty sure it's standard for any cop to roll with one in the chamber. Shit, I would. F*ck lockdown mode, If I'm a cop and I got some fuckhead coming at me with a knife or a gun, do I REALLY want to be concerned with chambering a round? HELL NO.
yeah that cop was an idiot but not because he had one in the chamber. That's standard protocol as far as I know.
In any case, I don't think the video shows him chambering a round. He pulls, points, shoots.
The question in my previous post was telepathically directed at you, Daze, because I know you be knowing these things, so thanks for weighing in.
It seems a little extreme for a transit cop to be rolling like that, but that's just me. Maybe BART has a seamy underbelly I didn't see when I rode it this summer.
Pistol S.O.P. aside, dude shouldn't have been pulling out at all. That, I think, we've all agreed on.