i don't think its so much the questions he's asking i think its the fact that archaic is asking them, he has already said some dumbass remarks about the holocust which iam sorry to say makes me think he has some antisemitic tendencies (he may not, i am just going with my gut here) i have found a lot of the conspiracy theory freaks like to blame the jews and israel for just about everything, and if you want to get the heart of what their saying, replace zionist with jewish
So I'm not even a person making specific comments and asking specific questions...instead I'm a stereotype of a conspiracy theory nut...might as well bulldoze my house right now.
Yes, it is telling. It says a lot about how unconscious & acceptable anti-semitism is.
Semites {sem' - yts} General Information
Semites are peoples who speak Semitic languages; the group includes Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians. In a Biblical sense, Semites are peoples whose ancestry can be traced back to Shem, Noah's eldest son. The ancient Semitic populations were pastoral Nomads who several centuries before the Christian Era were migrating in large numbers from Arabia to Mesopotamia, the coasts of the Mediterranean Sea, and the Nile River delta. Jews and other Semites settled in villages in Judea, southern Palestine.
Present day speakers of Semitic languages are as diverse in physical, psychological, cultural, and sociological characteristics as are speakers of Indo European languages. The most prominent Semites today are Arabs and Jews. They are different in many ways, and they have absorbed a variety of European traits through centuries of migration and trade. The origin of Semitic languages, however, and many similarities in the stories of Islam and Judaism reflect a common ancient history.
IMO as a concerned bystander...
One, there needs to be a clearer distinction made by Jews between descendents of Russian converts and actual descendents of Shem/Heber.
Two, there needs to be a clearer distinction made by Jews between being Jewish and being a Zionist.
Three, maybe the use of the word "anti-Semitism" by Jews abd especially Jewish converts thinking that it applies only to them and not various Arabs needs to be reassessed.
So to revisit what you just said, yes, there is a lot to be said about the way that Zionists are "unconsciously" committing their own brand of anti-semitism against Arabs.
Or, maybe you should stop sweating the whole "Jew" thing entirely. Not, as they say, "a good look"...
Exactly my point all along...can't even ask for clarifications on how Judaism relates to Zionism without the thought police intervening.
Yet many of us have non-Zionist family members halfway across the world unknowingly advancing the Zionist cause in Iraq.
Blood for oil, fake promotions of democracy, corporate greed...question all of that all day. But question anything about Jews/Zionists/Israel...shut up or else.
I'm reading your posts over, and I'm having a hard time trying to understand where you're coming from. These posts smell like half baked conspiracy theories...& they singularly involve Jewish people.
I'm not saying that the state of Israel is above reproach, but what are you trying to say?
This is just sounds like the typical "blame the Jew" rhetoric that people have been spewing for 2000 years...
Can someone please explain to me what is wrong with the questions that Archaic is raising in this particular discussion thread?
Admittedly I've only skimmed most of what he's said, but a lot of his wording & arguments seem very similar to the legitimately anti-Semitic/anti-"Zionist" arguments of the KKK/Aryan Nation. Maybe if he worded things a bit less fanatically it wouldn't come off that way, but I don't think so.
But I must say I'm confused by Archaic's assertion that the term "anti-semitic" should not only include discrimination against Jews, but discrimination against Arabs as well.
In any case, I find it very telling that none of the white posters on this board are willing to bring up insane boffin Yacub's role in all that's being discussed here.
i don't think its so much the questions he's asking i think its the fact that archaic is asking them, he has already said some dumbass remarks about the holocust which iam sorry to say makes me think he has some antisemitic tendencies (he may not, i am just going with my gut here) i have found a lot of the conspiracy theory freaks like to blame the jews and israel for just about everything, and if you want to get the heart of what their saying, replace zionist with jewish
So I'm not even a person making specific comments and asking specific questions...instead I'm a stereotype of a conspiracy theory nut...might as well bulldoze my house right now.
i don't think its so much the questions he's asking i think its the fact that archaic is asking them, he has already said some dumbass remarks about the holocust which iam sorry to say makes me think he has some antisemitic tendencies (he may not, i am just going with my gut here) i have found a lot of the conspiracy theory freaks like to blame the jews and israel for just about everything, and if you want to get the heart of what their saying, replace zionist with jewish
So I'm not even a person making specific comments and asking specific questions...instead I'm a stereotype of a conspiracy theory nut...might as well bulldoze my house right now.
Your most recent question regarding Zionists versus Jews and the allusion to the 9th century kingdom of the Khazar (which converted to Judaism in the only known instance in history of a pagan kingdom voluntarily converting to the faith of the chosen people) are indeed legitimate discussion topics. As is the semantic point that peoples of the Middle East are semites, thus technically anti-Semitism could refer also to bigotry against Arabs.
But the context here is important. Before you made these points, you asserted that many "so-called Jews" killed other Jews in the holocaust; you also said the state of Israel which received international recognition in large part because the world ignored the plight of the Jewish people in the holocaust was the enactment of Hitler's plan. You dismissed the "cult of the holocaust," as a pseudo scholarship meant to justify Israel's existence. And you brayed darkly about the plans of the Rothschild's--a long time bugaboo of conspiracists like Lyndon Larouche.
I don't read your posts regularly, but you cannot play the PC censorship card--and believe me I am sympathetic to your gripe that some lockstep strutters prematurely try to censor views with which they disagree--after spewing all that other conspiratorial stuff. The problem with your strawberry fields/nothing is real style of argumentation is that it ignores readily available facts. For example, the Nuremburg laws effectively banned all Jews from positions of authority in pre-gas chamber Germany. So how do you think Jews in turn collaborated with a plan to wipe the Jews out. When you assert that Gypsies and the mentally ill were the first victims of the holocaust, that is only true insofar as the first gas chambers were used on the retarded. But Jews were already being rounded up and shot in eastern europe, deported to ghettos and months away from the trains that took them to their final asphyxiation.
So when all of the errors are in the same direction, one wonders. You are obviously facile with the language. You do not lack the ability to absorb information. So why are you so obsessed with Juden? It's not cause you're stupid.
But I must say I'm confused by Archaic's assertion that the term "anti-semitic" should not only include discrimination against Jews, but discrimination against Arabs as well.
I think he might be saying that all people of the middle east belong to the same "Semetic" race & that they are divided by religion & that the Elders of Zion are manipuating George Bush want to tear down his house.
sadly this is sometihng that happens a lot. Honestly I don't think many people ever really understand the idea of Zionism and just figure it to be some evil conspiracy theory plot.
Truth is the zionism movement was based on creating a Jewish state, Theodore Hertzel is considered the father of Zionism and for more info I suggest reading up on him. In truth the idea is no different than Marcus Garvey's push towards having a black state/ back to Africa.
but, like most things, it seems to be better in practice than it is in reality. Ariel Sharon and supporters have taken measures I greatly disapprove of, but this doesn't mean the idea of having ones own state is inherently evil
sadly this is sometihng that happens a lot. Honestly I don't think many people ever really understand the idea of Zionism and just figure it to be some evil conspiracy theory plot.
Truth is the zionism movement was based on creating a Jewish state, Theodore Hertzel is considered the father of Zionism and for more info I suggest reading up on him. In truth the idea is no different than Marcus Garvey's push towards having a black state/ back to Africa.
but, like most things, it seems to be better in practice than it is in reality. Ariel Sharon and supporters have taken measures I greatly disapprove of, but this doesn't mean the idea of having ones own state is inherently evil
the idea of having ones own state is not inherently evil, just inherently racist.
sadly this is sometihng that happens a lot. Honestly I don't think many people ever really understand the idea of Zionism and just figure it to be some evil conspiracy theory plot.
Truth is the zionism movement was based on creating a Jewish state, Theodore Hertzel is considered the father of Zionism and for more info I suggest reading up on him. In truth the idea is no different than Marcus Garvey's push towards having a black state/ back to Africa.
but, like most things, it seems to be better in practice than it is in reality. Ariel Sharon and supporters have taken measures I greatly disapprove of, but this doesn't mean the idea of having ones own state is inherently evil
the idea of having ones own state is not inherently evil, just inherently racist.
Separtist yes, racist, depending on the situation... I think it depends on how its handled. If people were able to come to peaceful terms/agrements in relation to the home state then it would not be an issue. However the issue really is that no matter where you try to create the "homeland" then you will be displacing or disrupting the people currently living in that region/area.
Separtist yes, racist, depending on the situation... I think it depends on how its handled. If people were able to come to peaceful terms/agrements in relation to the home state then it would not be an issue. However the issue really is that no matter where you try to create the "homeland" then you will be displacing or disrupting the people currently living in that region/area.
But.... the nation state is an invention of the evil European capitalists, who were ALL RAVING ANTI SEMITES AND RACISTS.... The idea for Israel was possibly out of date soon after it came into existance. I have been there (1985) and had an amazing time, shame I will probably never go back. there are more Israelis there up in arms over the situation than over here.
actually I think we are starting to finally get somewhere.
Israel was created as the end result of the zionists after WWII. Jews had been persecuted through various countries for centuries (think Inquisition, Russian Pogroms, Holocaust, etc.)
When you are not wanted somewhere finding and forming a place for yourself seems to be the best option. This is what the Zionist move stemmed from. I don't see how escaping persecution could be considered racist. Ethnic and religious groups find their own piece of land everywhere. Hell here in LA we got little tokyo, Little Saigon, East La (Mexican), West LA (Jewish) and so on. Are these places racist for supporting thier own? none of these lands belonged to said ethnic group 75 years ago.
Separtist yes, racist, depending on the situation... I think it depends on how its handled. If people were able to come to peaceful terms/agrements in relation to the home state then it would not be an issue. However the issue really is that no matter where you try to create the "homeland" then you will be displacing or disrupting the people currently living in that region/area.
These comments are very reasonable, but I find that American/Canadian commentary on the issue of "displacment" to be lacking in conviction. We've all but eliminated the original proprietors of our countries. Who are we to comment or critizise?
There is a double standard that exists in this regard that I think is a serious issue.
But.... the nation state is an invention of the evil European capitalists, who were ALL RAVING ANTI SEMITES AND RACISTS.... The idea for Israel was possibly out of date soon after it came into existance. I have been there (1985) and had an amazing time, shame I will probably never go back. there are more Israelis there up in arms over the situation than over here.
actually I think we are starting to finally get somewhere.
Israel was created as the end result of the zionists after WWII. Jews had been persecuted through various countries for centuries (think Inquisition, Russian Pogroms, Holocaust, etc.)
When you are not wanted somewhere finding and forming a place for yourself seems to be the best option. This is what the Zionist move stemmed from. I don't see how escaping persecution could be considered racist. Ethnic and religious groups find their own piece of land everywhere. Hell here in LA we got little tokyo, Little Saigon, East La (Mexican), West LA (Jewish) and so on. Are these places racist for supporting thier own? none of these lands belonged to said ethnic group 75 years ago.
Come on Guzzo, these minority areas are all prime real estate are they? The more successful ones don't leave for the white neighborhoods.
Bad comparison.
Oh, and then there's the whole fresh water issue. Spain and Portugal can't even get on over this... I see major upheaval in the ME unless people with Brooklyn accents, who pay no taxes, do no service, and carry Uzis are politely told to move along.
But.... the nation state is an invention of the evil European capitalists, who were ALL RAVING ANTI SEMITES AND RACISTS.... The idea for Israel was possibly out of date soon after it came into existance. I have been there (1985) and had an amazing time, shame I will probably never go back. there are more Israelis there up in arms over the situation than over here.
Heavyweight.
Hi Vitamin! I'm just waiting for Google to do its thing!
Cheers!
PS: wasn't there some "refuting" missing from your "argument"?
I'll tell all y'all that are interested that I'm not Jewish in any way that's significant. Haven't been to synagogue in years (I had to spell check to see how to spell synagogue), I'd eat pork if I wasn't a vegetarian, & have scant interest in my cultural heritage. I'm just a dood who likes Indian food, Hip Hop, & girls with big butts. I'm not Jewish in any way that counts, but I am Jewish enough to catch 2 bullets in the back of the head.
You think nut cases who go off on "Zionist agendas", blame Jews for society's ills, & see us as profiteers of human misery are gonna ask me when was the last time I went to kiddish before gassing me?
I'd love to consider myself Canadian & only Canadian, but I know that isn't possible. Sooner or later, something really fucked up is going to happen in the world, and, if history has taught us right, the scapegoats will be Jewish people. Hell, you don't have to look far for evidence of this fact, just read this thread...So many variables, so many fucked up things go into something as hair brained as the Iraq war, but look who the finger gets pointed at again...Zionists, Jews, whatever...
I'm glad that there's an Israel because there's someone watching my back. From what we've seen here today, we need it.
little tokyo is hardly ethnic nor has it been muich of a residential neighborhood up until late.
ok. carry on with your whatever you call this.
well whatever. There were and have been ethnic neighborhoods in America.
I'm not even trying to defend modern day zionism, truth be told I'm not even sure what Archaic or others were referring to when they speak on modern day zionism. I do understand the need to escape persecution and don't think that that should be viewed as racist.
It seems more like the racism in this belongs to those who identify certain groups as racist for doing this. I don't think I've heard many folks on here call M.Garvey a racist for doing a very similar thing
HAZ, i think you meant "kaddish" and not "kiddish" though i dont really understand what kaddish is. a wake of sorts? im not sure.
and guz, see the differences between an ethnic neighborhood and an ethnic state are very different. i mean, you grew up in a "black neighborhood", no? i guess it makes sense since youre black or whatever. i mean, hell, you could be a scrawny jewish kid with shitty records, low self esteem and a small penis and you could still live in an ethnic neighborhood. or something to that degree. this very likely wouldnt happen in an ethnic state cuz there are rules and regulations and important documents all pointing to the rules and regulations. and then you have to define what constitutes a person that is allowed to live in an ethnic state. like, are ethnic jews for jesus allowed? or how about some skeevy asian dude that wants to be down for the natalie portman type assssss? what are the rules on that? i mean, there are a lot more rigid structures in forming a state. all of which would fall closer to the tenets of racism than ethnic pride. but that's just me. im sure there are other folks that youd rather argue with regarding a jewish state and all that hoo haw.
sadly this is sometihng that happens a lot. Honestly I don't think many people ever really understand the idea of Zionism and just figure it to be some evil conspiracy theory plot.
Truth is the zionism movement was based on creating a Jewish state, Theodore Hertzel is considered the father of Zionism and for more info I suggest reading up on him. In truth the idea is no different than Marcus Garvey's push towards having a black state/ back to Africa.
but, like most things, it seems to be better in practice than it is in reality. Ariel Sharon and supporters have taken measures I greatly disapprove of, but this doesn't mean the idea of having ones own state is inherently evil
the idea of having ones own state is not inherently evil, just inherently racist.
But only racist if you're Jewish, right?
no, the idea of creating a seperate state exclusive to a single race is racist regardless of what race you are.
HAZ, i think you meant "kaddish" and not "kiddish" though i dont really understand what kaddish is. a wake of sorts? im not sure.
and guz, see the differences between an ethnic neighborhood and an ethnic state are very different. i mean, you grew up in a "black neighborhood", no? i guess it makes sense since youre black or whatever. i mean, hell, you could be a scrawny jewish kid with shitty records, low self esteem and a small penis and you could still live in an ethnic neighborhood. or something to that degree. this very likely wouldnt happen in an ethnic state cuz there are rules and regulations and important documents all pointing to the rules and regulations. and then you have to define what constitutes a person that is allowed to live in an ethnic state. like, are ethnic jews for jesus allowed? or how about some skeevy asian dude that wants to be down for the natalie portman type assssss? what are the rules on that? i mean, there are a lot more rigid structures in forming a state. all of which would fall closer to the tenets of racism than ethnic pride. but that's just me. im sure there are other folks that youd rather argue with regarding a jewish state and all that hoo haw.
I agree that there is a big difference from an ethnic neighborhood & state. The Ghettos of Warsaw & Krakow were ethnic neighborhoods. We all know how those folks ended up...
I think anybody can live in Israel. I just always thought of it as a place that wouldn't harbor crazy Nazi dudes.
Comments
So I'm not even a person making specific comments and asking specific questions...instead I'm a stereotype of a conspiracy theory nut...might as well bulldoze my house right now.
I'm reading your posts over, and I'm having a hard time trying to understand where you're coming from. These posts smell like half baked conspiracy theories...& they singularly involve Jewish people.
I'm not saying that the state of Israel is above reproach, but what are you trying to say?
This is just sounds like the typical "blame the Jew" rhetoric that people have been spewing for 2000 years...
I hope I'm wrong or that we're miscommunicating.
h
Admittedly I've only skimmed most of what he's said, but a lot of his wording & arguments seem very similar to the legitimately anti-Semitic/anti-"Zionist" arguments of the KKK/Aryan Nation. Maybe if he worded things a bit less fanatically it wouldn't come off that way, but I don't think so.
But I must say I'm confused by Archaic's assertion that the term "anti-semitic" should not only include discrimination against Jews, but discrimination against Arabs as well.
In any case, I find it very telling that none of the white posters on this board are willing to bring up insane boffin Yacub's role in all that's being discussed here.
Wow.
Your most recent question regarding Zionists versus Jews and the allusion to the 9th century kingdom of the Khazar (which converted to Judaism in the only known instance in history of a pagan kingdom voluntarily converting to the faith of the chosen people) are indeed legitimate discussion topics. As is the semantic point that peoples of the Middle East are semites, thus technically anti-Semitism could refer also to bigotry against Arabs.
But the context here is important. Before you made these points, you asserted that many "so-called Jews" killed other Jews in the holocaust; you also said the state of Israel which received international recognition in large part because the world ignored the plight of the Jewish people in the holocaust was the enactment of Hitler's plan. You dismissed the "cult of the holocaust," as a pseudo scholarship meant to justify Israel's existence. And you brayed darkly about the plans of the Rothschild's--a long time bugaboo of conspiracists like Lyndon Larouche.
I don't read your posts regularly, but you cannot play the PC censorship card--and believe me I am sympathetic to your gripe that some lockstep strutters prematurely try to censor views with which they disagree--after spewing all that other conspiratorial stuff. The problem with your strawberry fields/nothing is real style of argumentation is that it ignores readily available facts. For example, the Nuremburg laws effectively banned all Jews from positions of authority in pre-gas chamber Germany. So how do you think Jews in turn collaborated with a plan to wipe the Jews out. When you assert that Gypsies and the mentally ill were the first victims of the holocaust, that is only true insofar as the first gas chambers were used on the retarded. But Jews were already being rounded up and shot in eastern europe, deported to ghettos and months away from the trains that took them to their final asphyxiation.
So when all of the errors are in the same direction, one wonders. You are obviously facile with the language. You do not lack the ability to absorb information. So why are you so obsessed with Juden? It's not cause you're stupid.
I think he might be saying that all people of the middle east belong to the same "Semetic" race & that they are divided by religion & that the Elders of Zion are manipuating George Bush want to tear down his house.
That's could be it.
h
the idea of having ones own state is not inherently evil, just inherently racist.
why?
But only racist if you're Jewish, right?
But.... the nation state is an invention of the evil European capitalists, who were ALL RAVING ANTI SEMITES AND RACISTS.... The idea for Israel was possibly out of date soon after it came into existance. I have been there (1985) and had an amazing time, shame I will probably never go back. there are more Israelis there up in arms over the situation than over here.
actually I think we are starting to finally get somewhere.
Israel was created as the end result of the zionists after WWII. Jews had been persecuted through various countries for centuries (think Inquisition, Russian Pogroms, Holocaust, etc.)
When you are not wanted somewhere finding and forming a place for yourself seems to be the best option. This is what the Zionist move stemmed from. I don't see how escaping persecution could be considered racist. Ethnic and religious groups find their own piece of land everywhere. Hell here in LA we got little tokyo, Little Saigon, East La (Mexican), West LA (Jewish) and so on. Are these places racist for supporting thier own? none of these lands belonged to said ethnic group 75 years ago.
These comments are very reasonable, but I find that American/Canadian commentary on the issue of "displacment" to be lacking in conviction. We've all but eliminated the original proprietors of our countries. Who are we to comment or critizise?
There is a double standard that exists in this regard that I think is a serious issue.
h
Heavyweight.
Come on Guzzo, these minority areas are all prime real estate are they? The more successful ones don't leave for the white neighborhoods.
Bad comparison.
Oh, and then there's the whole fresh water issue. Spain and Portugal can't even get on over this... I see major upheaval in the ME unless people with Brooklyn accents, who pay no taxes, do no service, and carry Uzis are politely told to move along.
Hi Vitamin! I'm just waiting for Google to do its thing!
Cheers!
PS: wasn't there some "refuting" missing from your "argument"?
ok. carry on with your whatever you call this.
I'll tell all y'all that are interested that I'm not Jewish in any way that's significant. Haven't been to synagogue in years (I had to spell check to see how to spell synagogue), I'd eat pork if I wasn't a vegetarian, & have scant interest in my cultural heritage. I'm just a dood who likes Indian food, Hip Hop, & girls with big butts. I'm not Jewish in any way that counts, but I am Jewish enough to catch 2 bullets in the back of the head.
You think nut cases who go off on "Zionist agendas", blame Jews for society's ills, & see us as profiteers of human misery are gonna ask me when was the last time I went to kiddish before gassing me?
I'd love to consider myself Canadian & only Canadian, but I know that isn't possible. Sooner or later, something really fucked up is going to happen in the world, and, if history has taught us right, the scapegoats will be Jewish people. Hell, you don't have to look far for evidence of this fact, just read this thread...So many variables, so many fucked up things go into something as hair brained as the Iraq war, but look who the finger gets pointed at again...Zionists, Jews, whatever...
I'm glad that there's an Israel because there's someone watching my back. From what we've seen here today, we need it.
Peace
Howard
well whatever. There were and have been ethnic neighborhoods in America.
I'm not even trying to defend modern day zionism, truth be told I'm not even sure what Archaic or others were referring to when they speak on modern day zionism. I do understand the need to escape persecution and don't think that that should be viewed as racist.
It seems more like the racism in this belongs to those who identify certain groups as racist for doing this. I don't think I've heard many folks on here call M.Garvey a racist for doing a very similar thing
and guz, see the differences between an ethnic neighborhood and an ethnic state are very different. i mean, you grew up in a "black neighborhood", no? i guess it makes sense since youre black or whatever. i mean, hell, you could be a scrawny jewish kid with shitty records, low self esteem and a small penis and you could still live in an ethnic neighborhood. or something to that degree. this very likely wouldnt happen in an ethnic state cuz there are rules and regulations and important documents all pointing to the rules and regulations. and then you have to define what constitutes a person that is allowed to live in an ethnic state. like, are ethnic jews for jesus allowed? or how about some skeevy asian dude that wants to be down for the natalie portman type assssss? what are the rules on that? i mean, there are a lot more rigid structures in forming a state. all of which would fall closer to the tenets of racism than ethnic pride. but that's just me. im sure there are other folks that youd rather argue with regarding a jewish state and all that hoo haw.
why is it that you guys think it's gonna go somewhere ?
Pointless bickering
Just dead it already -
eh, forget it.
no, the idea of creating a seperate state exclusive to a single race is racist regardless of what race you are.
When DJ Shadow speaks, the whole World listens (according to Vitamin).
I agree that there is a big difference from an ethnic neighborhood & state. The Ghettos of Warsaw & Krakow were ethnic neighborhoods. We all know how those folks ended up...
I think anybody can live in Israel. I just always thought of it as a place that wouldn't harbor crazy Nazi dudes.