I gotta say Bam is totally wrong on this point. Amy is a working class girl (sister girl sounds like a dock worker) digging on some soul in the classic tradition of the genre. I think her songwriting is top notch, an interesting twist on female sexual identity so rarely explored in todays pop world. It's not her fault that she struck Nirvana like gold by mixing quality and talent with great production so that even Rolling Stone, Starbucks and teeny boppers are feeling this release. Stop the hate, congratulate a "real" soul artist for once.
Lucky for you, I'm still finishing up a term paper, otherwise I'd have to crack my knuckles and drag this post through the mud a bit.
Amy Winehouse is an above average artist, but just barely. Her song writing ability while respectable, isn't amazing, her voice is good, but not great, and as a live performer she's inconsistent. That she's a drunk and a malcontent may be her two most memorable qualities.
Final verdict: Most definitely NOT that REAL SCHITT
Wrong, the songwriting is way above average for the genre and the production is totally happening. Do not make me come over there and smash your word processor with a copy of "back to black".
I am fine with you thinking I am "totally wrong." It's good for people to have their own opinions. But it seems like you've misunderstood my post, or worse, used points to prove me wrong that only confirm my belief.
What her songs sound like is of minor consequence to my opinion of her. I've brought this up before on this board, and been the subject of a hundred quoted posts with a 'disconnected' graemlin aimed at me, but I'll say it again. I think considering music for only the sound it makes is a sad way to listen.
Amy might have made a record that sounds cool, but in all her pageantry and obfuscation she's gone slim on content and substance. Saddling herself with douchebags doesn't help. Citing "Starbucks" as proof of her "real" soul status only makes my point for me. A "twist on female sexual identity," that's rich. Try a twist like Lullabelle.
I don't think she struck gold, or anything else besides a deal with a corporation that has money to plaster her face and voice everywhere. Popularity by promotion doesn't equate true artistry. It's not even interesting, as it's story is so old with it's side effects documented in reams everywhere.
Strip away the shtick and the money and the glossy pictures and the authenticity of Amy is empty.
If you want to listen to it don't let me stop you. But in 5 years (or 4 months) when everyone figures out she sucks (just like the long list of shit that's come before her), you can return to this thread for a list of records that are full of engaging perversion and unsettling substance and very little bullshit.
E***,
I think you should read this month's Rolling Stone cover story (I can see your eyes rolling already) on Amy (which I happened to read while at lunch today). Therein she talks very openly about the writing of the songs on "back to black", most of which deal with her on going struggle with substance abuse and a terribly hard break-up she went through (to the man she has now married). According to her, they are basically autobiographical renderings of her despair at having lost her soul mate. To me it can't get much more real than that. Ronson also talks about how they came to make the music tracks which sounds like a true collaboration between equals.
What this is all leading me to say is that I think your take on Winehouse's exterior narrative have caused you to miss much of what is really going on in her music. Music which happens to be banging and heartfelt.
A couple of clarifications about my earlier post. I used the Starbucks example in the opposite sense that you took it. Again, the fact that she is embraced/backed by the mainstream does it and of itself mean that she's a phony. Of course lots of great artists were embraced by the mainstream after mega-corporations hyped them to the masses. Otis Redding comes to mind most immediately. Shit happens.
I did a lot of looking into Winehouse when I first heard about her several months ago. After watching her and listening to her talk, it was pretty clear that she is not a corporate confection but a deeply feeling person who wrote a great album about her life. If you check out her presentation, you will see that she is making almost no concessions to the mainstream. She is a soul singer who can't dance and doesn;t even try to liven things up a la Beyonce. Her public drunkeness is mostly self-inflicting. She's got problems and she don't hide it.
I suppose what I trying to say is that I think there is merit to her work beyond just the fact that it sounds great. Many folks may not get passed the latter point but i sure have.
also b/w: why are winehouse threads always the long ones? Are we all really that stuck on the girl?
Allow a seasoned strutter elaborate.
The length of this thread has nothing to do with us being stuck on Winehouse, and everything to do with the fact that this thread has touched on about 90% of the issues that fuel the inner core of SoulStrut. In fact, it's been a long time since I've seen a thread come this close to completely running the gamut of Strut-approved material.
Here's a checklist for those keeping score at home:
1. Started by Phill most Trill
2. Appropriation of black culture
3. Authenticity
4. Elitism
5. Objectification of women
6. Beef with Guzzo
7. Poor grammar
8. People talking on that of which they knoweth not
i could never get that excited about one girl (or person for that matter) who strictly sings and writes lyrics. i can't really hear a voice and be like WHOA THIS IS AMAZING. GREATEST OF ALL TIME. a pretty voice and face and catchy lyrics are fleeting, but heavily integrated music to go with it is way better. rather than giving someone a backing track and being like "hey write some lyrics for this". that's why i like rappers who know a little something about the music/samples they're writing over. and while the production of the music is on point, i suspect the majority of the people who enjoy her wouldnt care if the backing band was a drum machine and a keyboard. but then again, i make and listen to hip hop which isn't much different so who am i to judge.
that's just my holistic bullshit rambling view of modern music.
YES!!!! One question, though, are the little heads going into or coming out of the mouth? I thought they were coming out at first but now I'm not so sure.
this one won't make any sense if you don't read weirdrecordsthatsuck, but on the subject of gifs and hot chicks:
Ha, I was going to tackle DrWu's question with some measured response but I think this answer below is actually a lot more spot on.
That said, I understand's Bam's point though I can't say I agree with some of the core parts of it. It's an old debate, right - do you appreciate art on a strictly aesthetic level or how much should context/background enter into it?
It shouldn't be an either/or and respectfully, I find Bam's approach a touch didactic even though I heartily agree that backstory and character can help deepen appreciation far beyond what the music itself is capable of. Example: Betty Davis.
In the case of Amy - I like her music and while I find the hype machine behind her to be undeserved (but hardly surprising), it doesn't change how much I enjoy listening to her better songs. It is selective though - if I thought she was a more interesting person, I might lean towards liking her music more but the lack of back story intrigue (and I have read the press) doesn't do undue harm to her.
Regardless though, I'm not so convinced by her Truth that I'd want to take Bam by the shoulders and shake some sense into him. A lot of my blog readers like Amy more than I think she deserves (but that is, of course, subjective) and some of them can't stand her and that spectrum all feels sensible and expected. (In contrast, hating on the Beatles is just a sign of dementia but hey, whatever).
I really do have to look sideways at the idea that Amy is a "true soul singer." Considering that her last album was much more of a jazz vocal effort, I'm not buying a sudden rebirth as soul's last hope. I like her music, I'd call "Back to Black" a soul album, but that's as far as I'd take it.
also b/w: why are winehouse threads always the long ones? Are we all really that stuck on the girl?
Allow a seasoned strutter elaborate.
The length of this thread has nothing to do with us being stuck on Winehouse, and everything to do with the fact that this thread has touched on about 90% of the issues that fuel the inner core of SoulStrut. In fact, it's been a long time since I've seen a thread come this close to completely running the gamut of Strut-approved material.
Here's a checklist for those keeping score at home:
1. Started by Phill most Trill
2. Appropriation of black culture
3. Authenticity
4. Elitism
5. Objectification of women
6. Beef with Guzzo
7. Poor grammar
8. People talking on that of which they knoweth not
i suspect the majority of the people who enjoy her wouldnt care if the backing band was a drum machine and a keyboard.
I disagree. I think Mark Ronson and Salaam Remi's participation makes a great deal of difference. People like her voice but she isn't that much different in sound than Madeline Peryoux or Erykah Badu - they're all influenced by Billie and have that little "tear" in ther voice.
The music on this new album is pretty central to her current success esp since her last album made no splash in comparison. Different sounding album entirely.
If Amy came out and did a faux-punk album next time around, she might keep some of her fans but I don't think evryone would follow wholesale.
No one is calling her the savior of anything. I am saying she's the most interesting soul artist out there right now. period. Look I thought Jane's Addiction was the second coming of Jesus Christ in 1988. Can't really listen to them anymore but I would never say that they weren't an alternative rock act.
One thing I was forgot to say in my first post: I really believe that some of her songs are going to become soul standards. I thought that this would illicit a lot of snickering from the cognescenti here at SS but then I read that Prince is coveing her shit, Artic Monkeys, and Hova and Raekwon are mixing it up with baby girl.
I think it is entirely possible that she has shot her wad with this record but that doesn't mean it isn't special.
last post I'm going to dedicate to playing with your elitist, holier-than-thou self.
Not true!
get over yourself
Says the guy who does searches on his own user name.
PS now I remember why I stopped finding this place to be fun and worthwhile to contribute to. Dizzybull was right to leave when he did. The idea that opinions are like assholes seems to have devolved to the point where some posters tend to think all their excrement is gold.
last post I'm going to dedicate to playing with your elitist, holier-than-thou self.
Not true!
get over yourself
Says the guy who does searches on his own user name.
PS now I remember why I stopped finding this place to be fun and worthwhile to contribute to. Dizzybull was right to leave when he did. The idea that opinions are like assholes seems to have devolved to the point where some posters tend to think all their excrement is gold.
??Qu?? rico!
oh god, not another one
please to remove your obsessive personality from my threads and just remember
If you stew in anger, you come off sounding pretty lame.
also b/w: why are winehouse threads always the long ones? Are we all really that stuck on the girl?
Allow a seasoned strutter elaborate.
The length of this thread has nothing to do with us being stuck on Winehouse, and everything to do with the fact that this thread has touched on about 90% of the issues that fuel the inner core of SoulStrut. In fact, it's been a long time since I've seen a thread come this close to completely running the gamut of Strut-approved material.
Here's a checklist for those keeping score at home:
1. Started by Phill most Trill
2. Appropriation of black culture
3. Authenticity
4. Elitism
5. Objectification of women
6. Beef with Guzzo
7. Poor grammar
8. People talking on that of which they knoweth not
9. Cameo by james
10. Old timers snapping on other old timers
11. Ass-hurt
Bonus Beat
12. No SuperPoaster
Things this thread is missing:
1. Fake findz / JLR
2. Lizard people
3. politics
4. rap
A little K in Canada talk and the eternal question "Where are his canadian friends now?" would do no harm to this thread.
I am saying she's the most interesting soul artist out there right now. period.
I think this says a lot about the state of contemporary soul music. I'm not even clowning - seriously, I think a big reason why people like Amy is because she'd rather channel Mary Wells than compete with Rihanna.
I am saying she's the most interesting soul artist out there right now. period.
I think this says a lot about the state of contemporary soul music. I'm not even clowning - seriously, I think a big reason why people like Amy is because she'd rather channel Mary Wells than compete with Rihanna.
I think it says considerably more about the person making the comment--I can't for the life of me figure out what anybody would find interesting (or listenable) about her music.
Comments
why are winehouse threads always the long ones? Are we all really that stuck on the girl?
E***,
I think you should read this month's Rolling Stone cover story (I can see your eyes rolling already) on Amy (which I happened to read while at lunch today). Therein she talks very openly about the writing of the songs on "back to black", most of which deal with her on going struggle with substance abuse and a terribly hard break-up she went through (to the man she has now married). According to her, they are basically autobiographical renderings of her despair at having lost her soul mate. To me it can't get much more real than that. Ronson also talks about how they came to make the music tracks which sounds like a true collaboration between equals.
What this is all leading me to say is that I think your take on Winehouse's exterior narrative have caused you to miss much of what is really going on in her music. Music which happens to be banging and heartfelt.
A couple of clarifications about my earlier post. I used the Starbucks example in the opposite sense that you took it. Again, the fact that she is embraced/backed by the mainstream does it and of itself mean that she's a phony. Of course lots of great artists were embraced by the mainstream after mega-corporations hyped them to the masses. Otis Redding comes to mind most immediately. Shit happens.
I did a lot of looking into Winehouse when I first heard about her several months ago. After watching her and listening to her talk, it was pretty clear that she is not a corporate confection but a deeply feeling person who wrote a great album about her life. If you check out her presentation, you will see that she is making almost no concessions to the mainstream. She is a soul singer who can't dance and doesn;t even try to liven things up a la Beyonce. Her public drunkeness is mostly self-inflicting. She's got problems and she don't hide it.
I suppose what I trying to say is that I think there is merit to her work beyond just the fact that it sounds great. Many folks may not get passed the latter point but i sure have.
IMG SRC=http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/672/eyerollga4.gif>
Enjoy, all.
Allow a seasoned strutter elaborate.
The length of this thread has nothing to do with us being stuck on Winehouse, and everything to do with the fact that this thread has touched on about 90% of the issues that fuel the inner core of SoulStrut. In fact, it's been a long time since I've seen a thread come this close to completely running the gamut of Strut-approved material.
Here's a checklist for those keeping score at home:
1. Started by Phill most Trill
2. Appropriation of black culture
3. Authenticity
4. Elitism
5. Objectification of women
6. Beef with Guzzo
7. Poor grammar
8. People talking on that of which they knoweth not
9. Cameo by james
10. Old timers snapping on other old timers
11. Ass-hurt
Bonus Beat
12. No SuperPoaster
Things this thread is missing:
1. Fake findz / JLR
2. Lizard people
3. politics
4. rap
that's just my holistic bullshit rambling view of modern music.
Amy Winehouse doesn't count?
YES!!!! One question, though, are the little heads going into or coming out of the mouth? I thought they were coming out at first but now I'm not so sure.
this one won't make any sense if you don't read weirdrecordsthatsuck, but on the subject of gifs and hot chicks:
Good voice/songs and a fucking druggy nut job! Perfect.
She's like the Courtney Love of Neo-soul.
That said, I understand's Bam's point though I can't say I agree with some of the core parts of it. It's an old debate, right - do you appreciate art on a strictly aesthetic level or how much should context/background enter into it?
It shouldn't be an either/or and respectfully, I find Bam's approach a touch didactic even though I heartily agree that backstory and character can help deepen appreciation far beyond what the music itself is capable of. Example: Betty Davis.
In the case of Amy - I like her music and while I find the hype machine behind her to be undeserved (but hardly surprising), it doesn't change how much I enjoy listening to her better songs. It is selective though - if I thought she was a more interesting person, I might lean towards liking her music more but the lack of back story intrigue (and I have read the press) doesn't do undue harm to her.
Regardless though, I'm not so convinced by her Truth that I'd want to take Bam by the shoulders and shake some sense into him. A lot of my blog readers like Amy more than I think she deserves (but that is, of course, subjective) and some of them can't stand her and that spectrum all feels sensible and expected. (In contrast, hating on the Beatles is just a sign of dementia but hey, whatever).
I really do have to look sideways at the idea that Amy is a "true soul singer." Considering that her last album was much more of a jazz vocal effort, I'm not buying a sudden rebirth as soul's last hope. I like her music, I'd call "Back to Black" a soul album, but that's as far as I'd take it.
I disagree. I think Mark Ronson and Salaam Remi's participation makes a great deal of difference. People like her voice but she isn't that much different in sound than Madeline Peryoux or Erykah Badu - they're all influenced by Billie and have that little "tear" in ther voice.
The music on this new album is pretty central to her current success esp since her last album made no splash in comparison. Different sounding album entirely.
If Amy came out and did a faux-punk album next time around, she might keep some of her fans but I don't think evryone would follow wholesale.
One thing I was forgot to say in my first post: I really believe that some of her songs are going to become soul standards. I thought that this would illicit a lot of snickering from the cognescenti here at SS but then I read that Prince is coveing her shit, Artic Monkeys, and Hova and Raekwon are mixing it up with baby girl.
I think it is entirely possible that she has shot her wad with this record but that doesn't mean it isn't special.
Not true!
Says the guy who does searches on his own user name.
??Qu?? rico!
Just beacuse it wasn't big in America, doesn't mean it was a flop.
oh god, not another one
please to remove your obsessive personality from my threads and just remember
jealous a bit?
I actually agree with Bassie on the Cat Power. Again, another artist with alcoholism.
oh and of course muah.
A little K in Canada talk and the eternal question "Where are his canadian friends now?" would do no harm to this thread.
I think this says a lot about the state of contemporary soul music. I'm not even clowning - seriously, I think a big reason why people like Amy is because she'd rather channel Mary Wells than compete with Rihanna.
two internet personas I would shoot to death and then turn myself to the police: Wallace and Superpoaster
Not a flop but "shortlist for Mercury prize" means very little to American fans of Amy who've only discovered her post-Rehab.
I think it says considerably more about the person making the comment--I can't for the life of me figure out what anybody would find interesting (or listenable) about her music.
Personally, I was surprised you cosigned on her
okay... jonny's turn now
amy winehouse vs. nicole willis, STEELCAGE bare knuckles... who you got?
amy wineblouse vs CASSIE... no holds barred, no bras hold tugfest... who u got???