In my mind, Tony gets whacked and Chase chooses to spare us from the unpleasantness and optimistically chooses to let us witness Tony's final moments of joy with his family (leaving us to infer the storm that follows). The whole tone of the scene was so heavy and confusing, disorienting even...how can we not infer that it was bad news for Tony? Let's face it, Tony's fate is inevitable...he's a mob boss with a crew on it's knees. He's been losing his grip on New Jersey all season, this had to happen. Great ending.
In my mind, Tony gets whacked and Chase chooses to spare us from the unpleasantness and optimistically chooses to let us witness Tony's final moments of joy with his family (leaving us to infer the storm that follows). The whole tone of the scene was so heavy and confusing, disorienting even...how can we not infer that it was bad news for Tony? Let's face it, Tony's fate is inevitable...he's a mob boss with a crew on it's knees. He's been losing his grip on New Jersey all season, this had to happen. Great ending.
"Joy" with his family? He's about to get indicted, AJ is still a fuck up, Meadow's a disappointment and him and Carmela are aloof, at best.
In my mind, Tony gets whacked and Chase chooses to spare us from the unpleasantness and optimistically chooses to let us witness Tony's final moments of joy with his family (leaving us to infer the storm that follows). The whole tone of the scene was so heavy and confusing, disorienting even...how can we not infer that it was bad news for Tony? Let's face it, Tony's fate is inevitable...he's a mob boss with a crew on it's knees. He's been losing his grip on New Jersey all season, this had to happen. Great ending.
"Joy" with his family? He's about to get indicted, AJ is still a fuck up, Meadow's a disappointment and him and Carmela are aloof, at best.
That restaurant scene was not pastoral.
Maybe not "joy" but "content". He still loves his family despite the disappointments along the way.
In my mind, Tony gets whacked and Chase chooses to spare us from the unpleasantness and optimistically chooses to let us witness Tony's final moments of joy with his family (leaving us to infer the storm that follows). The whole tone of the scene was so heavy and confusing, disorienting even...how can we not infer that it was bad news for Tony? Let's face it, Tony's fate is inevitable...he's a mob boss with a crew on it's knees. He's been losing his grip on New Jersey all season, this had to happen. Great ending.
"Joy" with his family? He's about to get indicted, AJ is still a fuck up, Meadow's a disappointment and him and Carmela are aloof, at best.
That restaurant scene was not pastoral.
Maybe not "joy" but "content". He still loves his family despite the disappointments along the way.
Saying though: I don't think Chase, historically, has been into sparing people "unpleasantness."
I remember when people were writing, "maybe Adrianna really made it because we don't ACTUALLY see Silvio kill her."
This is like that. People reading what they want to read when, really, the show's always been pretty consistent (and brutal) in showing people getting killed. If Tony was going to get got, it'd be graphic and unambiguous. I don't see how it'd go any other way.
In my mind, Tony gets whacked and Chase chooses to spare us from the unpleasantness and optimistically chooses to let us witness Tony's final moments of joy with his family (leaving us to infer the storm that follows). The whole tone of the scene was so heavy and confusing, disorienting even...how can we not infer that it was bad news for Tony? Let's face it, Tony's fate is inevitable...he's a mob boss with a crew on it's knees. He's been losing his grip on New Jersey all season, this had to happen. Great ending.
"Joy" with his family? He's about to get indicted, AJ is still a fuck up, Meadow's a disappointment and him and Carmela are aloof, at best.
That restaurant scene was not pastoral.
Maybe not "joy" but "content". He still loves his family despite the disappointments along the way.
Saying though: I don't think Chase, historically, has been into sparing people "unpleasantness."
I remember when people were writing, "maybe Adrianna really made it because we don't ACTUALLY see Silvio kill her."
This is like that. People reading what they want to read when, really, the show's always been pretty consistent (and brutal) in showing people getting killed. If Tony was going to get got, it'd be graphic and unambiguous. I don't see how it'd go any other way.
Good point but in my mind, Chase is breaking with form here because it's the final moments of the series. Going with the unexpected...
in fact, the ending was genius if you've paid attention to the show or are just a fan of well developed well thought out plots that all tie together and have the memory of a champ to remember it all
the ending was simple, he got killed, but let me tell yall why and explain in detail... There was 3 people in the room total who had a reason to kill tony.....
the two black guys, they were paid before to kill tony but he was only shot in the ear, this was in one of the earlier seasons,
also in the earlier seasons, the trucker who was sitting at the bar stool, who the camera kept focusing in on, is Nikki leotardo, Phil Leotardos nephew, he was in one of the early season episodes where Phil and Tony have a sit down....
heres where the genius comes in....
When tonys walking in the diner,you see the camera focus on him, then it switches to his perspective, and you see him looking @ the booth hes gonna sit at...
then the camera switches back to tonys face, then it once again switches to his perspective, and it shows him looking @ the door and looking @ the people come in..... Everytime the door opens the Chimes sound....... Carmela walks in, Chimes, AJ walks in Chimes, this when Meadows parallel parking, still trying to get inside the restaurant....
at this point the camera switches back to the trucker who goes in the bathroom......
Then it goes to a scene where meadow finally parks and starts running in the diner....
the doors about to open, Tony looks up....
and No Chimes......................
No Music............
Everything just goes black...............
In one of the early episodes of the sopranos, tonys talking with bobby about what it must feel like to die..
Bobby says "at the end, you probably dont hear anything, everything just goes black"
part of that was revisited in the second to last episode during the last seconds of it, when tonys about to go to sleep and he flashes back to the memory of him and bobby on the boat... "You probably dont hear anything everything just goes black"
so in the end, the Journey song was playing, the chimes on the door sounded but when meadow came in, the guy in the trucker hat came out and killed tony...
its the reason you aint hear, or see shit when he died.... it was from his perspective.... and everything went black, then the credits rolled.
What do you make of the fishing "you don't see it coming" flashback, Oliver?
whaen was this? didn't this flaskback occur in the context of Bobby's funeral? In which case it was totally normal for a flashback of Bobby and Tony concerning death right?
What do you make of the fishing "you don't see it coming" flashback, Oliver?
whaen was this? didn't this flaskback occur in the context of Bobby's funeral? In which case it was totally normal for a flashback of Bobby and Tony concerning death right?
Well yeah but the foreshadowing is not coincidental
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What do I think? It doesn't really matter, the way Chase left it you can write your own ending. Whatever you want to happen, happened. Happy now? I thought it was great, by the way, I need to watch it a few more times.
What do I think? It doesn't really matter, the way Chase left it you can write your own ending. Whatever you want to happen, happened. Happy now? I thought it was great, by the way, I need to watch it a few more times.
What do I think? It doesn't really matter, the way Chase left it you can write your own ending. Whatever you want to happen, happened.
Word. And that's the point of the ambiguity.
The foreshadowing may be a red herring. Or not. And like I said, sure, maybe Tony's dead. Maybe he's not. But it's deliberately left ambiguous and I think that's the whole point.
Let's just say: ok, maybe Tony did get shot: by the trucker, by Nikki, by the Black guys (they were the same guys from the botched hit? I'm pretty sure they got killed during that ep, no?). What would the point be? Narratively...it doesn't make a great deal of sense. And this whole, "but if you look at the sequence of POVs!" thesis is some film studies intellectualizing that I won't say is garbage but I think is an overread. It ends where it ends because we don't know who walks through the door. We assume it's Meadow but Tony's face doesn't read, "hey, it's my daughter!" His face is, "someone's walking in the door - friend or enemy? I don't know yet." And that's his life.
What'd I'd love is for Chase to come out and say, "duh, of course he's dead." Which, of course, will never happen. He's having a great laugh somewhere on all of us.
Tony is the first to arrive at Holsten's for a family dinner. He sits in a booth and plays a song on the jukebox, watching the door. Carmela enters and joins him, asking about his meeting with Mink. He tells her Carlo's gonna testify and she takes the news with a sigh. AJ arrives next, complaining about the more mundane tasks of his job but quotes old advice from his father: "Try to remember the times that were good." Meanwhile, Meadow struggles to parallel park outside. Customers come and go - a shady looking guy who's been sitting at the counter enters the restroom. Finally parking the car, Meadow runs inside to join her family, just in time for dinner.
Pretty basic. My only question: What does Tony play after Journey?
got a lotta work to do today but i had to check in to see what yall thought. here's my take. Oli and GP, i'm sorry to say i fit into the camp that feels there is a lot of symbolism in the POV/blackout.
And just to add this, considering the number of people who've been killed on the show, it's never been from ANY character's POV. It's always from the audience's POV. Suddenly, the show is going to switch things for the sake of Tony? C'mon. I wish folks would be rational for half a second.
i haven't mentioned it before because i didn't want to give away any hints or clues, but after watching each episode several times, i noticed that this season placed a large emphasis on POV.
there are 3 scenes in the finale where tony enters his own POV. you first see tony looking at agent harris' car, then it cuts to tony walking over. same thing happens when he goes to visit junior. and then finally at holsten's (the diner), you see tony looking at the diner, then it cuts to a wide shot of tony sitting in his booth.
and, whats even a greater indication, more than half of the episodes, including this last one, opened as tony wakes up. "the blue comet" closed as tony falls asleep. also, "the second coming" began with both tony and aj waking, which worked with the themes of that episode. so essentially the episodes that we saw this season were bookended by tony entering consciousness and then exiting. all of that, tied together with bobby and tony's conversation in the boat about how "you don't see it when it finally comes" - and the flashback reminder from the end of "blue comet" to that same scene - AND the above analysis from the NYT, make some strong suggestions about the closing of the show.
The simple fact is, David Chase likes to mess with all his viewers. He has been doing it for the entire 6 seasons and why should he stop now at the very end. It was a great show that hit some bumps along the way. I think i'm most annoyed of the fact they took off so much time before this final season and that mini break inbetween this single season. All that made for a climax that nobody would have expected. Just another night out for the family eating and talking about life. Honestly they did not need that entire scene with AJ parking his car over leaves interupting him getting some well deserved booty. He never played a huge role in the show. Umm but! When he had that party and someone shaved his eyebrows and glued his face to the rug!!! that was golden!!! Now that was comedy!
I'm not suggesting the blackout isn't pregnant with meaning or possibilities. Of course it is. But that's the whole point.
10 years from now (assuming there's no "Sopranos" movie), we're going to be divided, still, into the "Tony died" vs. "No he didn't" camps. I'm not mad at that.
got a lotta work to do today but i had to check in to see what yall thought. here's my take. Oli and GP, i'm sorry to say i fit into the camp that feels there is a lot of symbolism in the POV/blackout.
And just to add this, considering the number of people who've been killed on the show, it's never been from ANY character's POV. It's always from the audience's POV. Suddenly, the show is going to switch things for the sake of Tony? C'mon. I wish folks would be rational for half a second.
i haven't mentioned it before because i didn't want to give away any hints or clues, but after watching each episode several times, i noticed that this season placed a large emphasis on POV.
there are 3 scenes in the finale where tony enters his own POV. you first see tony looking at agent harris' car, then it cuts to tony walking over. same thing happens when he goes to visit junior. and then finally at holsten's (the diner), you see tony looking at the diner, then it cuts to a wide shot of tony sitting in his booth.
and, whats even a greater indication, more than half of the episodes, including this last one, opened as tony wakes up. "the blue comet" closed as tony falls asleep. also, "the second coming" began with both tony and aj waking, which worked with the themes of that episode. so essentially the episodes that we saw this season were bookended by tony entering consciousness and then exiting. all of that, tied together with bobby and tony's conversation in the boat about how "you don't see it when it finally comes" - and the flashback reminder from the end of "blue comet" to that same scene - AND the above analysis from the NYT, make some strong suggestions about the closing of the show.
got a lotta work to do today but i had to check in to see what yall thought. here's my take. Oli and GP, i'm sorry to say i fit into the camp that feels there is a lot of symbolism in the POV/blackout.
Who is it then? Nikki Leotardo? C'mon....why wasn't he listed as such in the credits. That's a HUGE reach. I know you didn't offer that theory, I"m just sayin.
POV isn't enough for me. I"ll buy off on "Tony died" as soon as a plausible storyline is presented.
The Bobby flashback from last episode is because Bobby fucking died, IMO.
Ha - love this stuff. This was from HBO's forums, I think:
"The 1st thing to rewatch in the episode to make the outcome most obvious to those willing to dig is how Chase subtly inserts the radio ad in the hospital scene. The ad is for a food chopper/processor of some sort called "the magic bullet". In the ad it describes three dishes, vegetables or whatnot that can all be served up in 10 seconds or less. Suggesting Tony was the third after Bobby and Sil. It gave me chills when I rewatched the end and saw that the blackout was exactly 10 seconds."
Ha - love this stuff. This was from HBO's forums, I think:
"The 1st thing to rewatch in the episode to make the outcome most obvious to those willing to dig is how Chase subtly inserts the radio ad in the hospital scene. The ad is for a food chopper/processor of some sort called "the magic bullet". In the ad it describes three dishes, vegetables or whatnot that can all be served up in 10 seconds or less. Suggesting Tony was the third after Bobby and Sil. It gave me chills when I rewatched the end and saw that the blackout was exactly 10 seconds."
lol OK what's the significance of the Little Miss Sunshine scene then?
Ha - love this stuff. This was from HBO's forums, I think:
"The 1st thing to rewatch in the episode to make the outcome most obvious to those willing to dig is how Chase subtly inserts the radio ad in the hospital scene. The ad is for a food chopper/processor of some sort called "the magic bullet". In the ad it describes three dishes, vegetables or whatnot that can all be served up in 10 seconds or less. Suggesting Tony was the third after Bobby and Sil. It gave me chills when I rewatched the end and saw that the blackout was exactly 10 seconds."
lol OK what's the significance of the Little Miss Sunshine scene then?
To bite from the LA/NY Times (I can't remember which one):
"family, redefined!"
I have to admit, even I'm now starting to come around to the "Tony died" thesis but I'm still insisting that the ambiguity in that scene was the intended point. And yeah, I do think it was Chase having a good laugh on the audience. He a mad doggie?
I'm still insisting that the ambiguity in that scene was the intended point.
Of course it was - that's like insisting that the sky is blue.
But, given that, we are now in the process of arguing about it, and presenting alternate hypotheses... which is exactly what we are supposed to be doing!
I'm still insisting that the ambiguity in that scene was the intended point.
Of course it was - that's like insisting that the sky is blue.
But, given that, we are now in the process of arguing about it, and presenting alternate hypotheses... which is exactly what we are supposed to be doing!
Word. Hook. Line. Sinker.
Speaking of movies, and HBO TV shows...I just read that the "Sex and the City" movie is a go.
But hey, in the history of this show even the minor characters on this program were so quirky, you wanted to know who/what/why... - the female tennis coach who apparently had lesbian designs of Adrianna - Vito's son who went goth - Livia's caretaker with the removable leg - "Jamal Ginsburg, the Hassidic Homeboy" - that female crime lord that sat in on one meeting (just the fact that she was a woman in a male-dominated profession...) - Hesch's young African-American girlfriend who died without a warning - that wimpy guy who fronted Visiting Day, a goofy emo band who was bankrolled by Adrianna and Chris -...and of course, everybody's favorite: the crazed Russian guy in the woods that Chris and Paulie had a hard time tracking down (a/k/a The Celebrated "Pine Barrens" Episode)
Not since Seinfeld have I seen a show where this many one-episode characters nearly upstaged the stars.
But, who cares?? Those characters obviously weren't major characters, and hardly "upstages the stars". I'm glad they didn't do some sappy reflection thing, where they run down all those random characters showing what happened to them, while some melancholy rock tune from the 70's plays in the background. They kept the plot tight and meaningful without cluttering it with extra bullshit, and that was a great choice.
Comments
"Joy" with his family? He's about to get indicted, AJ is still a fuck up, Meadow's a disappointment and him and Carmela are aloof, at best.
That restaurant scene was not pastoral.
Maybe not "joy" but "content". He still loves his family despite the disappointments along the way.
Saying though: I don't think Chase, historically, has been into sparing people "unpleasantness."
I remember when people were writing, "maybe Adrianna really made it because we don't ACTUALLY see Silvio kill her."
This is like that. People reading what they want to read when, really, the show's always been pretty consistent (and brutal) in showing people getting killed. If Tony was going to get got, it'd be graphic and unambiguous. I don't see how it'd go any other way.
That is the main "he was killed" lead for me right now... that and the camera angles mentioned in the blog on NYT.
Good point but in my mind, Chase is breaking with form here because it's the final moments of the series. Going with the unexpected...
He was killed....
in fact, the ending was genius if you've paid attention to the show or are just a fan of well developed well thought out plots that all tie together and have the memory of a champ to remember it all
the ending was simple, he got killed, but let me tell yall why and explain in detail... There was 3 people in the room total who had a reason to kill tony.....
the two black guys, they were paid before to kill tony but he was only shot in the ear, this was in one of the earlier seasons,
also in the earlier seasons, the trucker who was sitting at the bar stool, who the camera kept focusing in on, is Nikki leotardo, Phil Leotardos nephew, he was in one of the early season episodes where Phil and Tony have a sit down....
heres where the genius comes in....
When tonys walking in the diner,you see the camera focus on him, then it switches to his perspective, and you see him looking @ the booth hes gonna sit at...
then the camera switches back to tonys face, then it once again switches to his perspective, and it shows him looking @ the door and looking @ the people come in..... Everytime the door opens the Chimes sound....... Carmela walks in, Chimes, AJ walks in Chimes, this when Meadows parallel parking, still trying to get inside the restaurant....
at this point the camera switches back to the trucker who goes in the bathroom......
Then it goes to a scene where meadow finally parks and starts running in the diner....
the doors about to open, Tony looks up....
and No Chimes......................
No Music............
Everything just goes black...............
In one of the early episodes of the sopranos, tonys talking with bobby about what it must feel like to die..
Bobby says "at the end, you probably dont hear anything, everything just goes black"
part of that was revisited in the second to last episode during the last seconds of it, when tonys about to go to sleep and he flashes back to the memory of him and bobby on the boat... "You probably dont hear anything everything just goes black"
so in the end, the Journey song was playing, the chimes on the door sounded but when meadow came in, the guy in the trucker hat came out and killed tony...
its the reason you aint hear, or see shit when he died.... it was from his perspective.... and everything went black, then the credits rolled.
whaen was this? didn't this flaskback occur in the context of Bobby's funeral? In which case it was totally normal for a flashback of Bobby and Tony concerning death right?
Well yeah but the foreshadowing is not coincidental
ha - death by speculation!
Word. And that's the point of the ambiguity.
The foreshadowing may be a red herring. Or not. And like I said, sure, maybe Tony's dead. Maybe he's not. But it's deliberately left ambiguous and I think that's the whole point.
Let's just say: ok, maybe Tony did get shot: by the trucker, by Nikki, by the Black guys (they were the same guys from the botched hit? I'm pretty sure they got killed during that ep, no?). What would the point be? Narratively...it doesn't make a great deal of sense. And this whole, "but if you look at the sequence of POVs!" thesis is some film studies intellectualizing that I won't say is garbage but I think is an overread. It ends where it ends because we don't know who walks through the door. We assume it's Meadow but Tony's face doesn't read, "hey, it's my daughter!" His face is, "someone's walking in the door - friend or enemy? I don't know yet." And that's his life.
What'd I'd love is for Chase to come out and say, "duh, of course he's dead." Which, of course, will never happen. He's having a great laugh somewhere on all of us.
Pretty basic. My only question: What does Tony play after Journey?
here's my take. Oli and GP, i'm sorry to say i fit into the camp that feels there is a lot of symbolism in the POV/blackout.
i haven't mentioned it before because i didn't want to give away any hints or clues, but after watching each episode several times, i noticed that this season placed a large emphasis on POV.
there are 3 scenes in the finale where tony enters his own POV. you first see tony looking at agent harris' car, then it cuts to tony walking over. same thing happens when he goes to visit junior. and then finally at holsten's (the diner), you see tony looking at the diner, then it cuts to a wide shot of tony sitting in his booth.
and, whats even a greater indication, more than half of the episodes, including this last one, opened as tony wakes up. "the blue comet" closed as tony falls asleep. also, "the second coming" began with both tony and aj waking, which worked with the themes of that episode. so essentially the episodes that we saw this season were bookended by tony entering consciousness and then exiting. all of that, tied together with bobby and tony's conversation in the boat about how "you don't see it when it finally comes" - and the flashback reminder from the end of "blue comet" to that same scene - AND the above analysis from the NYT, make some strong suggestions about the closing of the show.
10 years from now (assuming there's no "Sopranos" movie), we're going to be divided, still, into the "Tony died" vs. "No he didn't" camps. I'm not mad at that.
Who is it then? Nikki Leotardo? C'mon....why wasn't he listed as such in the credits. That's a HUGE reach. I know you didn't offer that theory, I"m just sayin.
POV isn't enough for me. I"ll buy off on "Tony died" as soon as a plausible storyline is presented.
The Bobby flashback from last episode is because Bobby fucking died, IMO.
"The 1st thing to rewatch in the episode to make the outcome most obvious to those willing to dig is how Chase subtly inserts the radio ad in the hospital scene. The ad is for a food chopper/processor of some sort called "the magic bullet". In the ad it describes three dishes, vegetables or whatnot that can all be served up in 10 seconds or less. Suggesting Tony was the third after Bobby and Sil. It gave me chills when I rewatched the end and saw that the blackout was exactly 10 seconds."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10936209
Dude gets waaaay deep, analyzing the song choices.
lol OK what's the significance of the Little Miss Sunshine scene then?
To bite from the LA/NY Times (I can't remember which one):
"family, redefined!"
I have to admit, even I'm now starting to come around to the "Tony died" thesis but I'm still insisting that the ambiguity in that scene was the intended point. And yeah, I do think it was Chase having a good laugh on the audience. He a mad doggie?
Of course it was - that's like insisting that the sky is blue.
But, given that, we are now in the process of arguing about it, and presenting alternate hypotheses... which is exactly what we are supposed to be doing!
Lingering contract obligation? Seemed totally unnecessary.
Word. Hook. Line. Sinker.
Speaking of movies, and HBO TV shows...I just read that the "Sex and the City" movie is a go.
UGH. (But I'll still probably go.) Sigh.
Hunter is David Chase's daughter.