In any case, Afrocentricity had very little to do with either since that was never embraced into the mainstream of American culture.
So there weren't millions of Lee Oskar look-alikes running around during the early 70's?
Stylistically, the kufi/dashiki-era might have been a minor rage but I meant more in terms of the philosophy of Afrocentricity. The term didn't even really gain momentum until the early '80s and regardless, "Black Power" was not an idea sweeping middle America in any era, '70s or otherwise.
Btw, Scott Saul does a nice summation on Black Power history in last month's Harper's when he reviews Peniel Joseph's "Waitin' Til the Midnight Hour" and Stephen Shames' photography book, "The Black Panthers."
Gold coast slave ship bound for cotton fields, Sold in a market down in new orleans. Scarred old slaver know hes doin alright. Hear him whip the women just around midnight. Ah brown sugar how come you taste so good (a-ha) brown sugar, just like a young girl should A-huh.
Drums beating, cold english blood runs hot, Lady of the house wondrin where its gonna stop. House boy knows that hes doin alright. You should a heard him just around midnight. Ah brown sugar how come you taste so good (a-ha) brown sugar, just like a black girl should A-huh.
I bet your mama was a tent show queen, and all her boy Friends were sweet sixteen. Im no schoolboy but I know what I like, You should have heard me just around midnight.
Ah brown sugar how come you taste so good (a-ha) brown sugar, just like a young girl should.
I said yeah, I said yeah, I said yeah, I said Oh just like a, just like a black girl should.
I said yeah, I said yeah, I said yeah, I said Oh just like, just like a black girl should.
Crazy! I never could understand half the lyrics in Brown Sugar... No wonder Mick mumbled so damn much. Like somebody else said, I just thought this was about wanting a little loving from a sister. I figure that like so many of the Stones tunes, it was written from an alternate perspective, or in character, as it were. Like "Sympathy For The Devil" or "Street Fightin' Man".
I think you are right. Rereading these lyrics I think Jagger is imaging early 1800s Jungle Fever, first the salvers desire for Black women (whip clearly is a double entendre here) then the lady of the house's desire for Black men and finally the singers own desire. Jaggers sexualisation of African Americans is not a good look at all, but this works as a jungle fever type song. I agree with whoever said; that it was a hit, along with the Stones other offensive songs, because people don't listen to (or analysis) the lyrics.
There is (and never will be) no number one hit by a Black artist that demeans or sexualizes Whites in this way.
I am kinda surprised that this song came out when it did. 1971 was an extremely Afrocentric, P.C. time
I'll give you the afrocentric part, but PC? nowhere near it; I don't even think the term existed yet. Top rated show of '71 was All In the Family. In '71 we still had crazies like George Wallace spitting out their rhetoric and getting TV time to do so. Not to mention the first season of Sanford and Son, maybe I'm mistakn but I think John and Yoko had the track "Woman is the Nigger Of the World" got released that year as well.
I first started hearing PC in the early 80s. It was used by leftists to describe other leftists who were holier than thou. If you turned down your thermostat to 68 they turned theirs to 64, If you said "disabled" (knowing that handicapped was offensive) they said "otherlyabled". It was a back handed way of putting down other leftists. In the 80s Ronald Regan removed the fairness clause from TV and radio liscences. This gave rise to the right wing talk shows. One of their first crusades was to elimate political correctness, which had crept into universities and work places. No more turning down the thermastat and using non-offensive language.
1971 was perhaps the apex of the anti-war hippie yippie Black power era. These groups were not in anyway mainstream. Nixon, who was very popular, waged war on these groups in 1971. Students and activists were shot and killed and exiled and jailed. At the same time Madison Avenue and the fashion world embraced the style and language of the revolution. We had "revolutions" in toilet paper and Dean Martin wore bell bottoms.
There is (and never will be) no number one hit by a Black artist that demeans or sexualizes Whites in this way.
You dont think they'll be a Black song w/out the slavery context that celebrates women besides their "own"?
I'm not sure I understand the question. A song that celebrates women? perhaps. A song that demeans women? Perhaps. A song that reduces White women to sexual objects to be used and abused? No, never.
Found this through a google search. lol One of the stupidest things I have ever read.
by shauncreaney on 07-21-2002 @ 06:36:17 AM i originally thought that brown sugar was a metaphor for oral sex. firstly, because it should taste good as far as i have been told. (i can't speak from experience here), hence the 'sugar'. and 'brown' secondly because most pubic hairs are brown (some physiologist told me). but after some critical thinking, i arrived at a different conclusion. i think that some african slaves in the US may have been unwarrantedly force to harvest brown sugar for the elitist fat-cat caucasian racist nabob-bosses. or maybe the rolling stones went abe lincoln style and decided to praise the sexual prowess of the young black princess. i 'heard' that many of these cock-asian fellows would fornicate with their black wenches while the housewife listened to the bumps in the night but did nothing. oh well, so much for american freedom. 'the home of the free and the slave' as far as i'm concerned.
by shauncreaney on 07-21-2002 @ 06:36:17 AM i originally thought that brown sugar was a metaphor for oral sex. firstly, because it should taste good as far as i have been told. (i can't speak from experience here), hence the 'sugar'. and 'brown' secondly because most pubic hairs are brown (some physiologist told me). but after some critical thinking, i arrived at a different conclusion. i think that some african slaves in the US may have been unwarrantedly force to harvest brown sugar for the elitist fat-cat caucasian racist nabob-bosses. or maybe the rolling stones went abe lincoln style and decided to praise the sexual prowess of the young black princess. i 'heard' that many of these cock-asian fellows would fornicate with their black wenches while the housewife listened to the bumps in the night but did nothing. oh well, so much for american freedom. 'the home of the free and the slave' as far as i'm concerned.
I should clarify that while Brown Sugar was a #1 hit, and I was unaware of any protest against it, that does not mean there was none. Stanley Crouch or The Call or some writer or paper may very well have written an article protesting the lyrics of Brown Sugar and the Rolling Stones appropriation of African American music. But as a White teen from the suburbs I was unawares.
It's hard to imagine today, but in 1971 only a few papers or magazines would publish an article on the social impact of rock and roll lyrics. Outside of Rolling Stone, Screw and Village Voice and underground papers there was no serious rock criticism. News magazines and papers payed zero attention to popular music, or culture, unless it was vice president complaining about drug references or something like that.
Outside of Rolling Stone, Screw and Village Voice and underground papers there was no serious rock criticism. News magazines and papers payed zero attention to popular music, or culture, unless it was vice president complaining about drug references or something like that.
Outside of Rolling Stone, Screw and Village Voice and underground papers there was no serious rock criticism. News magazines and papers payed zero attention to popular music, or culture, unless it was vice president complaining about drug references or something like that.
Don't forget Creem! Or this:
...which has a song called "Jagger The Dagger" which I think is about the Stones' lead singer...tune is so paranoid I can hardly tell whether it's a tribute or a teardown
i would have to do some serious attic digging to find that CD. i'm sure someone can make it happen. that shit was hilarious though "white bitches, how come you look so good white bitches, do shit no sister would"
And on that note, just noticed it's 4.20 in the morning, the alcohol is wearing off and bed is calling. If I don't get back here before it have a happy new year Strutters.
Outside of Rolling Stone, Screw and Village Voice and underground papers there was no serious rock criticism. News magazines and papers payed zero attention to popular music, or culture, unless it was vice president complaining about drug references or something like that.
Don't forget Creem! Or this:
...which has a song called "Jagger The Dagger" which I think is about the Stones' lead singer...tune is so paranoid I can hardly tell whether it's a tribute or a teardown
It's a teardown. Jagger misappropriates blues music and dancing/selling his soul to the devil to do so is the message. This fits nicely with my theory that the song "Susan Jane" on there is a song making fun of Bob Dylan. *Which I can always back
Outside of Rolling Stone, Screw and Village Voice and underground papers there was no serious rock criticism. News magazines and papers payed zero attention to popular music, or culture, unless it was vice president complaining about drug references or something like that.
Don't forget Creem! Or this:
...which has a song called "Jagger The Dagger" which I think is about the Stones' lead singer...tune is so paranoid I can hardly tell whether it's a tribute or a teardown
It's a teardown. Jagger misappropriates blues music and dancing/selling his soul to the devil to do so is the message.
The ironic part about it is that McD sounds mysteriously like Jagger when he tries to get "gritty" (it's real obvious on his Outlaw album).
Outside of Rolling Stone, Screw and Village Voice and underground papers there was no serious rock criticism. News magazines and papers payed zero attention to popular music, or culture, unless it was vice president complaining about drug references or something like that.
Don't forget Creem! Or this:
...which has a song called "Jagger The Dagger" which I think is about the Stones' lead singer...tune is so paranoid I can hardly tell whether it's a tribute or a teardown
It's a teardown. Jagger misappropriates blues music and dancing/selling his soul to the devil to do so is the message.
The ironic part about it is that McD sounds mysteriously like Jagger when he tries to get "gritty" (it's real obvious on his Outlaw album).
Outside of Rolling Stone, Screw and Village Voice and underground papers there was no serious rock criticism. News magazines and papers payed zero attention to popular music, or culture, unless it was vice president complaining about drug references or something like that.
Don't forget Creem! Or this:
...which has a song called "Jagger The Dagger" which I think is about the Stones' lead singer...tune is so paranoid I can hardly tell whether it's a tribute or a teardown
It's a teardown. Jagger misappropriates blues music and dancing/selling his soul to the devil to do so is the message.
The ironic part about it is that McD sounds mysteriously like Jagger when he tries to get "gritty" (it's real obvious on his Outlaw album).
Thus proving his point?!?!
In McDaniels' case, not really.
He sure as hell didn't sing like that on those early pop sides on Liberty - and he was having hits before the Stones showed up! Matter of fact, he sounded pretty "proper," not like the kind of R&B act that Jagger & co. would be emulating(not a slam, as I enjoy his early-60's pop smashes and his "progressive soul" records equally). As a kid, hearing McDaniels'"Chip Chip" on an oldies station, I thought it was a white man singing for the longest time.
Could someone post lyrics please?
I believe you, man, no one's got anything to prove! :-)
Isnt Jimi's Dolly Dagger about some chick that he and Jagger were sharing? Or somethin' along those lines?
Quick search found this tidbit:
The line "Dolly Dagger, she drinks her blood from a jagged edge." is a reference to Mick Jagger, at one of Hendrix's birthdays, Mick Jagger pricked his finger, and Devon Wilson, in full view of Hendrix rushed over and sucked the blood from his finger, refusing to get him a band-aid until the bleeding subsided.
Jagger Doin the devil dance Just a victim of circumstance Jagger wheelin' the Rolling Stone He and the devil know he's all alone Jagger's lived in the world awhile Now he's learnin' the devil's style Jagger playing a heavy game Free from guilt and he's free from shame Jagger sucking the source of life Slashing the pig with a horny knife Jagger merging the sexes now Just stand back and he'll show you how Jagger's organ will play the tune He will watch the heavens open soon
Fairly paranoid. I'm feeling a little less certain now of the interpretation, but Left Rev doesn't like Jagger.
Jagger Doin the devil dance Just a victim of circumstance Jagger wheelin' the Rolling Stone He and the devil know he's all alone Jagger's lived in the world awhile Now he's learnin' the devil's style Jagger playing a heavy game Free from guilt and he's free from shame Jagger sucking the source of life Slashing the pig with a horny knife Jagger merging the sexes now Just stand back and he'll show you how Jagger's organ will play the tune He will watch the heavens open soon
Fairly paranoid. I'm feeling a little less certain now of the interpretation, but Left Rev doesn't like Jagger.
Comments
So there weren't millions of Lee Oskar look-alikes running around during the early 70's?
Stylistically, the kufi/dashiki-era might have been a minor rage but I meant more in terms of the philosophy of Afrocentricity. The term didn't even really gain momentum until the early '80s and regardless, "Black Power" was not an idea sweeping middle America in any era, '70s or otherwise.
Btw, Scott Saul does a nice summation on Black Power history in last month's Harper's when he reviews Peniel Joseph's "Waitin' Til the Midnight Hour" and Stephen Shames' photography book, "The Black Panthers."
I think you are right. Rereading these lyrics I think Jagger is imaging early 1800s Jungle Fever, first the salvers desire for Black women (whip clearly is a double entendre here) then the lady of the house's desire for Black men and finally the singers own desire. Jaggers sexualisation of African Americans is not a good look at all, but this works as a jungle fever type song. I agree with whoever said; that it was a hit, along with the Stones other offensive songs, because people don't listen to (or analysis) the lyrics.
There is (and never will be) no number one hit by a Black artist that demeans or sexualizes Whites in this way.
I first started hearing PC in the early 80s. It was used by leftists to describe other leftists who were holier than thou. If you turned down your thermostat to 68 they turned theirs to 64, If you said "disabled" (knowing that handicapped was offensive) they said "otherlyabled". It was a back handed way of putting down other leftists. In the 80s Ronald Regan removed the fairness clause from TV and radio liscences. This gave rise to the right wing talk shows. One of their first crusades was to elimate political correctness, which had crept into universities and work places. No more turning down the thermastat and using non-offensive language.
1971 was perhaps the apex of the anti-war hippie yippie Black power era. These groups were not in anyway mainstream. Nixon, who was very popular, waged war on these groups in 1971. Students and activists were shot and killed and exiled and jailed. At the same time Madison Avenue and the fashion world embraced the style and language of the revolution. We had "revolutions" in toilet paper and Dean Martin wore bell bottoms.
You dont think they'll be a Black song w/out the slavery context that celebrates women besides their "own"?
So this has no chance of smashing the charts?
I'm not sure I understand the question. A song that celebrates women? perhaps. A song that demeans women? Perhaps. A song that reduces White women to sexual objects to be used and abused? No, never.
Who is more demeaned in this picture? Girlz, who are refered to as White, or the Black men who are refered to Niggaz?
I no you were posting a joke, but is this a popular song by a popular group? Sorry, I am
HarveyCanal, is this true?
It's hard to imagine today, but in 1971 only a few papers or magazines would publish an article on the social impact of rock and roll lyrics. Outside of Rolling Stone, Screw and Village Voice and underground papers there was no serious rock criticism. News magazines and papers payed zero attention to popular music, or culture, unless it was vice president complaining about drug references or something like that.
Don't forget Creem! Or this:
...which has a song called "Jagger The Dagger" which I think is about the Stones' lead singer...tune is so paranoid I can hardly tell whether it's a tribute or a teardown
WHIIIITE BIIITTTCCCHHEESSS
that shit was hilarious though
"white bitches, how come you look so good
white bitches, do shit no sister would"
Here you go
Biz - Snow Flake
And on that note, just noticed it's 4.20 in the morning, the alcohol is wearing off and bed is calling. If I don't get back here before it have a happy new year Strutters.
That sounds hilarious.
Edit: thanks for the link.
Question answered!
It's a teardown. Jagger misappropriates blues music and dancing/selling his soul to the devil to do so is the message. This fits nicely with my theory that the song "Susan Jane" on there is a song making fun of Bob Dylan.
*Which I can always back
The ironic part about it is that McD sounds mysteriously like Jagger when he tries to get "gritty" (it's real obvious on his Outlaw album).
Thus proving his point?!?!
Could someone post lyrics please?
In McDaniels' case, not really.
He sure as hell didn't sing like that on those early pop sides on Liberty - and he was having hits before the Stones showed up! Matter of fact, he sounded pretty "proper," not like the kind of R&B act that Jagger & co. would be emulating(not a slam, as I enjoy his early-60's pop smashes and his "progressive soul" records equally). As a kid, hearing McDaniels'"Chip Chip" on an oldies station, I thought it was a white man singing for the longest time.
I believe you, man, no one's got anything to prove! :-)
Quick search found this tidbit:
The line "Dolly Dagger, she drinks her blood from a jagged edge." is a reference to Mick Jagger, at one of Hendrix's birthdays, Mick Jagger pricked his finger, and Devon Wilson, in full view of Hendrix rushed over and sucked the blood from his finger, refusing to get him a band-aid until the bleeding subsided.
*Devon Wilson was Jimi's gf at the time.
Jagger Doin the devil dance
Just a victim of circumstance
Jagger wheelin' the Rolling Stone
He and the devil know he's all alone
Jagger's lived in the world awhile
Now he's learnin' the devil's style
Jagger playing a heavy game
Free from guilt and he's free from shame
Jagger sucking the source of life
Slashing the pig with a horny knife
Jagger merging the sexes now
Just stand back and he'll show you how
Jagger's organ will play the tune
He will watch the heavens open soon
Fairly paranoid. I'm feeling a little less certain now of the interpretation, but Left Rev doesn't like Jagger.
Hes clearly listened to him.