Missy is a good party "Rapper". But to say you pop in any of her joints to check for lyrics is suspect. Her off beat flow can be interesting. I cant say I turn my nose up. Its her whole package that's appealing IMO. No one thing dominates her. She can rebound,distribute,defend on the ball, postup and find the open man. But I wouldnt pput her in the dunk contest w/ other mc's.
Nah you're on point here, i'm not saying i'm putting her in to 'check for her lyrics' but if that was what defined a good rapper, uh 90% of old school shit would be boring as hell. Do y'all check the Funky Four + 1 for lyricisms? No, but they're still good rappers. I still remember their lines, as do 'respected lyricists' etc. but this is debate is like saying chuck berry isn't a good rock lyricist because he's not like bob dylan.
No, it's not like that--Chuck Berry is a better lyricist than Dylan.
Missy is a good party "Rapper". But to say you pop in any of her joints to check for lyrics is suspect. Her off beat flow can be interesting. I cant say I turn my nose up. Its her whole package that's appealing IMO. No one thing dominates her. She can rebound,distribute,defend on the ball, postup and find the open man. But I wouldnt pput her in the dunk contest w/ other mc's.
Nah you're on point here, i'm not saying i'm putting her in to 'check for her lyrics' but if that was what defined a good rapper, uh 90% of old school shit would be boring as hell. Do y'all check the Funky Four + 1 for lyricisms? No, but they're still good rappers. I still remember their lines, as do 'respected lyricists' etc. but this is debate is like saying chuck berry isn't a good rock lyricist because he's not like bob dylan.
Even when I think of Missy I never think RAPPER. But when asked she can ride the beat better than the Whispers rhymin'. Did she spit on the Sista record?
When I comes to the Old School I do listen for their lyrics. But you have to examine it in its proper context. For their time, cats were doin' it. Ill take some Kool Moe Dee verses over half the kids out now. But that's another discussion. The greatest ballers can ball in any era.
Your position is clear, but it's not credible--I don't think even you believe this stuff.
You might attempt to interest Tom Breihan in having this dialogue with you, though.
Just because breihan can be a goof doesn't mean he's not coming out of some ideas that smart folks have actually been talking about for a while. Thats what is funny to me about some of the stuff Tom says - its like, he gets the end result right (i.e. I bet he and Kelefa like a lot of the same music) but he's got the justifications wrong or twisted or can't back it up without coming across as unknowledgeable the way dudes like Sanneh or Sasha Frere Jones can.
(Not that either of those dudes are 100% right all the time but you know what i'm saying here)
Your position is clear, but it's not credible--I don't think even you believe this stuff.
You might attempt to interest Tom Breihan in having this dialogue with you, though.
Just because breihan can be a goof doesn't mean he's not coming out of some ideas that smart folks have actually been talking about for a while. Thats what is funny to me about some of the stuff Tom says - its like, he gets the end result right (i.e. I bet he and Kelefa like a lot of the same music) but he's got the justifications wrong or twisted or can't back it up without coming across as unknowledgeable the way dudes like Sanneh or Sasha Frere Jones can.
(Not that either of those dudes are 100% right all the time but you know what i'm saying here)
I don't disagree.
But "Missy is a great rapper" falls into the category of "wrong and twisted" justifications for the conclusion that she has made some great music.
yea, my 2 cents were that i think her singing and writing outshine her rapping. the backhanded compliment about her looks was obnoxious, but its probably 100% accurate. she had zero sex appeal but went from backup singer to solo artist based on talent alone. the "hee-hee-hee-heee-howw" line from the things u do put her on the map. she took it from there.
Your position is clear, but it's not credible--I don't think even you believe this stuff.
You might attempt to interest Tom Breihan in having this dialogue with you, though.
Just because breihan can be a goof doesn't mean he's not coming out of some ideas that smart folks have actually been talking about for a while. Thats what is funny to me about some of the stuff Tom says - its like, he gets the end result right (i.e. I bet he and Kelefa like a lot of the same music) but he's got the justifications wrong or twisted or can't back it up without coming across as unknowledgeable the way dudes like Sanneh or Sasha Frere Jones can.
(Not that either of those dudes are 100% right all the time but you know what i'm saying here)
I don't disagree.
But "Missy is a great rapper" falls into the category of "wrong and twisted" justifications for the conclusion that she has made some great music.
I didn't say she's a 'great' rapper, i said she's a good one, although she is 'great' at party rapping and keeping people's attention. No she isn't on my GOAT list or whatever, but playing down her 'rap skillz' as "just her PERSONALITY" or "STYLE" or whatever is shortchanging her as an m.c. I think. She's a good singer, and she's obv a great songwriter and knows how to work a hook, but to me her appeal is mostly as a rapper, and the PERSONALITY and STYLE that comes out when she is RAPPING.
Batmon whats wrong w/ the word 'rapper,' is that outdated? Are they all 'game spitters' like the big tymers? Are they STREET POETS? HIP HOPPERS? plz to explain correct CONNECTED terminology!
actually I have seen both Doug E Fresh and Slick Rick live and I would have to say at least seperately i would go with Slick Rick putting on the bettershow. Now granted that was well after both of their primes...
And IMO Puffy is in the same league as Missy. he does catchy pop songs and raps well enough to get peoples' attention. I he good rapper? no, but he make great party tracks as an entertainer. In fact Puffy himself clarified when he dropped his first solo album saying he is not a rapper but an entertainer. I haven;t heard anyone say Missy was a good rapper since her first album dropped and while that album was cool, sayign she was a rapper at any point was suspect.
Now they are. But Puffy was legend before he even got w/ Biggie. And wasnt even seein the microphone. Missy started as a multitasker and continues as such. When Puffy started forcing himself on his own tracks cats never took him seriously. Missy at least is honest.
hey phill - do you check the Funky Four + 1 for lyricisms?
Dont make me go looking for awkward noz quotes. You get what I'm saying
(ps: What do you think of Lupe's "fly hooks"?)
I still dont get what the difference is between 'real rappers' and 'entertainers,' its not like rap isn't entertainment even when its REAL SCHITT LYRICISTS or whatever. But hey what would rap be w/out ppl seperating THAT REAL SCHITT from CROSSOVER POP BULLSHIT to maintain their supposed CONNECTEDNESS
Dont make me go looking for awkward noz quotes. You get what I'm saying
i don't have to look for awkward deej quotes. they consistently show up in front of my face. but i wasn't trying to make fun of you. at least, that wasn't my first priority.
my point was that funky four + 1 were taken seriously as lyricists back for their time. standards change. to say that missy is rapping on the same level (though, fyi, she isn't) of them twenty five+ years after the fact isn't really a credit to her skills as a rapper. nor is it a discredit to their catalog to suggest that missy isn't a good rapper.
sometimes you take this anti-rockist thing a little too far. this "missy elliott is a good rapper" hissy fit is one such occasion.
Dont make me go looking for awkward noz quotes. You get what I'm saying
i don't have to look for awkward deej quotes. they consistently show up in front of my face. but i wasn't trying to make fun of you. at least, that wasn't my first priority.
my point was that funky four + 1 were taken seriously as lyricists back for their time. standards change. to say that missy is rapping on the same level (though, fyi, she isn't) of them twenty five+ years after the fact isn't really a credit to her skills as a rapper. nor is it a discredit to their catalog to suggest that missy isn't a good rapper.
sometimes you take this anti-rockist thing a little too far. this "missy elliott is a good rapper" hissy fit is one such occasion.
Yeah my message board flurries tend to not be particularly proofread but whatevers.
I don't buy that people took the funky 4+1 'seriously as lyricists' though! They made party songs people danced to (a la missy elliott). The whole idea of 'serious lyricists' didn't exist in early days, thats a development that came later. I just disagree w the idea that a rapper has to be 'serious' to be consdiered good. This isn't about anti-rockism, this has to do with "i like missy elliott's rapping therefore it is good rapping." But whatever, you disagree, yr clearly not alone so i'll let it drop. also calling this a 'hissy fit' is a lil out of proportion. Its the internet, what fun would it be if i couldnt argue about the worth of pop rap on a message board.
Comments
huh. are you standing up for ugly mugs or you just think she raps better than she sings & writes?
No, it's not like that--Chuck Berry is a better lyricist than Dylan.
Even when I think of Missy I never think RAPPER. But when asked she can ride the beat better than the Whispers rhymin'. Did she spit on the Sista record?
When I comes to the Old School I do listen for their lyrics. But you have to examine it in its proper context. For their time, cats were doin' it. Ill take some Kool Moe Dee verses over half the kids out now. But that's another discussion. The greatest ballers can ball in any era.
(Not that either of those dudes are 100% right all the time but you know what i'm saying here)
I don't disagree.
But "Missy is a great rapper" falls into the category of "wrong and twisted" justifications for the conclusion that she has made some great music.
I just think that popping into a thread about whether or not Missy is a good rapper to add that you think that she's ugly is, as stated above, NAGL.
I didn't say she's a 'great' rapper, i said she's a good one, although she is 'great' at party rapping and keeping people's attention. No she isn't on my GOAT list or whatever, but playing down her 'rap skillz' as "just her PERSONALITY" or "STYLE" or whatever is shortchanging her as an m.c. I think. She's a good singer, and she's obv a great songwriter and knows how to work a hook, but to me her appeal is mostly as a rapper, and the PERSONALITY and STYLE that comes out when she is RAPPING.
Batmon whats wrong w/ the word 'rapper,' is that outdated? Are they all 'game spitters' like the big tymers? Are they STREET POETS? HIP HOPPERS? plz to explain correct CONNECTED terminology!
October 2nd, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Once is a great while he does something pretty good But he???s no timbo, and the mind of mannie fresh had fuckin pre school rhymes on it
As opposed 2 the tim & magoo cds + the missy cds where da rhymes are da second comin??? of scarface meets kool g rap u mean?
fuckk outta hea u faggit ass techno hipster timbo jockin??? smedium tee nigga..u know damn well u neva heard no shit by da god mannie neway
And IMO Puffy is in the same league as Missy. he does catchy pop songs and raps well enough to get peoples' attention. I he good rapper? no, but he make great party tracks as an entertainer. In fact Puffy himself clarified when he dropped his first solo album saying he is not a rapper but an entertainer. I haven;t heard anyone say Missy was a good rapper since her first album dropped and while that album was cool, sayign she was a rapper at any point was suspect.
Now they are. But Puffy was legend before he even got w/ Biggie. And wasnt even seein the microphone. Missy started as a multitasker and continues as such.
When Puffy started forcing himself on his own tracks cats never took him seriously. Missy at least is honest.
(ps: What do you think of Lupe's "fly hooks"?)
I still dont get what the difference is between 'real rappers' and 'entertainers,' its not like rap isn't entertainment even when its REAL SCHITT LYRICISTS or whatever. But hey what would rap be w/out ppl seperating THAT REAL SCHITT from CROSSOVER POP BULLSHIT to maintain their supposed CONNECTEDNESS
Please do.
YES I AM
Did anyone apply that phrase to Missy?
She's just not really a rapper... much less a "good" one.
I really enjoy the threads where you whip yourself into such a froth that you start responding to your own posts.
That dude's album was no worse than anything else the Pharcyde has done.
i don't have to look for awkward deej quotes. they consistently show up in front of my face. but i wasn't trying to make fun of you. at least, that wasn't my first priority.
my point was that funky four + 1 were taken seriously as lyricists back for their time. standards change. to say that missy is rapping on the same level (though, fyi, she isn't) of them twenty five+ years after the fact isn't really a credit to her skills as a rapper. nor is it a discredit to their catalog to suggest that missy isn't a good rapper.
sometimes you take this anti-rockist thing a little too far. this "missy elliott is a good rapper" hissy fit is one such occasion.
i thought you liked justin timberlake?
he is a great rapper.
R&B album of '06, batch.
Yeah my message board flurries tend to not be particularly proofread but whatevers.
I don't buy that people took the funky 4+1 'seriously as lyricists' though! They made party songs people danced to (a la missy elliott). The whole idea of 'serious lyricists' didn't exist in early days, thats a development that came later. I just disagree w the idea that a rapper has to be 'serious' to be consdiered good. This isn't about anti-rockism, this has to do with "i like missy elliott's rapping therefore it is good rapping." But whatever, you disagree, yr clearly not alone so i'll let it drop. also calling this a 'hissy fit' is a lil out of proportion. Its the internet, what fun would it be if i couldnt argue about the worth of pop rap on a message board.
"You just can't miss with a beat like this" =
a) 'serious lyricism' of the primative early 80s rap style
or
b) party rap that wasn't meant to be particularly serious real talk?
I go w/ b
THAT'S SOME BULLSHIT.
Back in the days cats knew who were the cream of the crop in certain crews. U never used "lyricist".
Cats knew if one was an exceptional MC.