wtf nozAnd her 2nd and 3rd albums are at least as good as deliverence if not better.Also i'm sure yr aware but jada sounds nice on 'ride or die bitch' which is timbo produced.
I'm with you on Ms. Jade though that is a pretty good album. (I don't get yr confusion over listening to JT thing though, the whole point of his new album is its supposed to be the 'mature adult' record, thats why he did 21+ club shows etc. Street rap is more mature/adult how exactly? Less upscale than millenial era club rap or JT, definitely - if that was what you were saying i think i'd understand, some sort of alliance w/ 'the people' vs. swanky metropolitan classy pop or something)
You probably just have to scroll to the bottom, but here it is
As Bol mentioned, Timbaland is one of many rap producers making moves towards the greener pastures of pop music. He???s perhaps the most visible, and certainly the most successful of the pack producing several tracks on recent mega hit albums from Nelly Furtado and Justin Timberlake. They???re supposed to be fantastic, and I???m sure they are. They produced two of the summer???s biggest singles in ???Promiscuous Girl??? and ???Sexy Back.??? But, being a grown ass man and I can???t seriously bring myself to listen to that music. I even downstole them and played them, but I was unable to listen. I???ve accepted that it???s not for me. But it is what it is and I hope that Tim enjoys the many luxury cars the royalties bring.
One thing I have listened to constantly, on repeat for the past few months is Timbaland???s remix of Furtado???s ???Maneater,??? featuring none other than Lil??? Weezyana weaving punchlines (I???ll be Diddy, you be Mase / eat me up enjoy the taste) around Timb???s crawling beat and synthesized choral moans. Furtado???s presence aside, it???s an easy contender for the best 80 seconds of music recorded this year.
And it occurs to me that this is the first and only time Young Stunna has ever worked with Old Man Timbo. He???s not the only one either. Think of your second favorite rapper right now - chances are he???s never worked with Timbaland (unless you???re an Aftermath/BWW groupie, in which case you???re beyond saving).
That???s what???s so strange about his career and probably what keeps him out of greatest producer of all time debates. Like Rick Rubin, Paul C., Dr. Dre & DJ Premier, Timbaland single handedly shifted the landscape of hip hop production. In the years after the summer of ???Are You That Somebody??? his sound has been often imitated, but never duplicated.
And, unlike Primo, who???s formula stagnated pretty quickly, Timbo???s constantly pushed his sound, and music as a whole, to it???s furthest boundaries. His beats are often incredible, jaw dropping events, simultaniously avant garde and dancefloor minded. Hearing him for the first time is like nodding your head to intercepted space broadcasts in an alien language. (I suspect ???Planet Rock??? or much of the Mantronix catalog felt the same way at the time of their release.) Where most modern hip hop consists of a very structured arrangement of one or two loops of only a few bars, Timb???s beats are often sprawling works of shifting layers in multiple movements. But the benefactors of these opuses are rarely deserving.
In fact, while he dramatically altered the hip hop aesthetic, he paradoxically did so without recording a whole lot of significant hip hop music. Other than a continuous working relationship with Hova and, of course, the great Aaliyah, the bulk of Timbaland???s catalog consists of his own vanity albums, Missy ???Did I Tell You I Love Old School Hip Hop and That I???m Not Fat Anymore??? Elliott???s [1], his failed Beat Club label (where Tim came closest to making his hip hop masterpiece - Bubba Sparxx???s painfully under-appreciated Deliverance), a bunch of R&B singers who will never be as good as Aaliyah, and a handful of loose beats on dollar bin rap albums. And now all this space pop drivel that I hear but cannot listen to.
How can such a great rap producer be so resilient to working with great rappers to make great rap music?
It???s been said that Timb???s basically priced himself out of the rap game. And there???s probably some truth to that - pop records still go platinum with some regularity and I???m sure that those artists are more comfortable paying Timbaland???s no doubt deep into six figure fees. But that doesn???t explain how up and comers (read: the 2009 koch roster) with overly generic names like Young Blaze, Attitude and Rich Boy get droves of Timbo beats while best rapper alive contenders have to settle for Scott Fucking Storch or the poor man???s Scott Storch. Sure those young dudes will probably be forwarding their social security checks to the Mosely estate (ask Shade Shiest or Lil??? Mo or KnocTurn???al), but that???s hardly adequate retribution for the more talented/thrifty Timboless rappers.
With Jay, Tim has shown an ability to adapt to a great emcee???s strengths, bringing the spaceships/suburbs to the hood. But when he laces the talented closer-to-street-level rappers like Nas, Jadakiss or umm??? Pastor Troy, they sound completely out of their element, flopping around his staccato rhythms like dying flounder (???Owe Me Back.??? ???Nasty Girl,??? and ???Are We Cuttin???,??? respectively). Or maybe those guys want to get their money???s worth [2] and grab the most archetypical Timbalandish beat they hear, ignoring their own comfort level.
I think the problem just boils down to Timbaland having terrible taste in rappers. He has made three albums with Magoo. Or maybe he just genuinely (and suspiciously) prefers pop music to rap music. I can always hope that Timmy???ll take that Nelltin Fertberlake money and invest in some rappers who are actually on his level.
Really though, I just want to hear some more bugged out double time fast raps over Timbaland production. Chops crazy enough to make his spaceship landing beats sound sane. Ludacris, Jay, Big Boi and Twista have done it before. It???d be great if say, E-40 [3] or TI or Chamillionaire [4] could join those ranks.
As usual, this is mostly on point, but i have some minor quibbles (see above)
Really though, I just want to hear some more bugged out double time fast raps over Timbaland production. Chops crazy enough to make his spaceship landing beats sound sane.
I see myself as an independent minded message board poster making cogent points about artists (diddy, shawnna, missy) who make great rap music underappreciated by the usual suspects who think the artists are 'too pop' unlike the hip-hop of the early 90s golden age and those who think the artists 'aren't authentic expressions of street life' unlike trae. Also, I am a snappy dresser.
I challenge anyone to make an insightful argument that either a) Miss E...So Addictive and Da Real World are not classic records, or b) that those two ARE classic but Timbaland is solely responsible for why they are good.
I see myself as an independent minded message board poster making cogent points about artists (diddy, shawnna, missy) who make great rap music underappreciated by the usual suspects who think the artists are 'too pop' unlike the hip-hop of the early 90s golden age and those who think the artists 'aren't authentic expressions of street life' unlike trae.
A run-on sentence worthy of Newt Gingritch
Also, I am a snappy dresser.
I'll be the judge of that.
I challenge anyone to make an insightful argument that either a) Miss E...So Addictive and Da Real World are not classic records, or b) that those two ARE classic but Timbaland is solely responsible for why they are good.
What has any of this got to do with Missy's rapping (not that I concede that either album is a classic)?
What has any of this got to do with Missy's rapping (not that I concede that either album is a classic)?
Are you saying that they're classics because of her singing???
I'm not saying that they're classics at all, although I do think that MissE... is very good. I think that what makes both of those albums good is Timbaland's production and that Missy clearly plays some role in either inspiring him or in convoncing him to discard ideas that are not working, since her solo albums are so much better than his. But she's not really any better of a rapper than him. Or Magoo.
What has any of this got to do with Missy's rapping (not that I concede that either album is a classic)?
Are you saying that they're classics because of her singing???
I'm not saying that they're classics at all, although I do think that MissE... is very good. I think that what makes both of those albums good is Timbaland's production and that Missy clearly plays some role in either inspiring him or in convoncing him to discard ideas that are not working, since her solo albums are so much better than his. But she's not really any better of a rapper than him. Or Magoo.
You can't be serious.
Obv Timbo's production is a huge part of what makes these albums good, but Missy's rapping is key. Everyone is a better rapper than Magoo, but she's definitely one of the most inspired rappers from the past couple years. I know yr real big on 'real talk' or whatever but Missy's rapping is so central to what makes her albums interesting. (I know she isn't, like, knocking you down w/ tounge twisting double time flows or whatever but whenever people start going on about shit like that i get echoes of prog guitarists noodling in my ears.) Her vocals are memorable and a huge part of why people like her tracks. Nobody wrote party rhymes like she did in the late 90s and early 00s.
Aaliyah was a muse, I can see how her vocals seemed to inspire timbaland - but to me the missy albums just prove that they inspired each other, and his shit was equally inspired by her attitude (AS A RAPPER) and her flow and sense of style as was her sense of quality control. (I mean, if her greatest asset was her quality control then how to explain the boring non-heights of their 5th album together?)
Further, listen again to "Lick Shots" and tell me she doesnt tear the shit out of that track.
What has any of this got to do with Missy's rapping (not that I concede that either album is a classic)?
Are you saying that they're classics because of her singing???
I'm not saying that they're classics at all, although I do think that MissE... is very good. I think that what makes both of those albums good is Timbaland's production and that Missy clearly plays some role in either inspiring him or in convoncing him to discard ideas that are not working, since her solo albums are so much better than his. But she's not really any better of a rapper than him. Or Magoo.
You can't be serious.
Obv Timbo's production is a huge part of what makes these albums good, but Missy's rapping is key. Everyone is a better rapper than Magoo, but she's definitely one of the most inspired rappers from the past couple years. I know yr real big on 'real talk' or whatever but Missy's rapping is so central to what makes her albums interesting. (I know she isn't, like, knocking you down w/ tounge twisting double time flows or whatever but whenever people start going on about shit like that i get echoes of prog guitarists noodling in my ears.) Her vocals are memorable and a huge part of why people like her tracks. Nobody wrote party rhymes like she did in the late 90s and early 00s.
Aaliyah was a muse, I can see how her vocals seemed to inspire timbaland - but to me the missy albums just prove that they inspired each other, and his shit was equally inspired by her attitude (AS A RAPPER) and her flow and sense of style as was her sense of quality control. (I mean, if her greatest asset was her quality control then how to explain the boring non-heights of their 5th album together?)
Further, listen again to "Lick Shots" and tell me she doesnt tear the shit out of that track.
Whats so confusing? Her party rhymes are memorable, distinctive, funny, and fit the music timbo made perfectly. I remember plenty of missy verses and like no magoo verses.
Are you saying that missy songs would have been better with someone else rapping on them? Because i totally disagree. (ALSO I forgot to mention this in the initial post but STREET RAPPERS on Timbo beats, Juvie and B.G. on "U Can't Resist," WHOA.)
Missy is a good party "Rapper". But to say you pop in any of her joints to check for lyrics is suspect. Her off beat flow can be interesting. I cant say I turn my nose up. Its her whole package that's appealing IMO. No one thing dominates her. She can rebound,distribute,defend on the ball, postup and find the open man. But I wouldnt pput her in the dunk contest w/ other mc's.
Missy is a great entertainer and rapper. She has a good voice, great delivery, and she's funny as fuck(and a bit insightful).. She sounds great over other peoples beats as well but I think her and Tim work great. Do you think he tapped it?
Missy is a good party "Rapper". But to say you pop in any of her joints to check for lyrics is suspect. Her off beat flow can be interesting. I cant say I turn my nose up. Its her whole package that's appealing IMO. No one thing dominates her. She can rebound,distribute,defend on the ball, postup and find the open man. But I wouldnt pput her in the dunk contest w/ other mc's.
Nah you're on point here, i'm not saying i'm putting her in to 'check for her lyrics' but if that was what defined a good rapper, uh 90% of old school shit would be boring as hell. Do y'all check the Funky Four + 1 for lyricisms? No, but they're still good rappers. I still remember their lines, as do 'respected lyricists' etc. but this is debate is like saying chuck berry isn't a good rock lyricist because he's not like bob dylan.
Comments
(I don't get yr confusion over listening to JT thing though, the whole point of his new album is its supposed to be the 'mature adult' record, thats why he did 21+ club shows etc. Street rap is more mature/adult how exactly? Less upscale than millenial era club rap or JT, definitely - if that was what you were saying i think i'd understand, some sort of alliance w/ 'the people' vs. swanky metropolitan classy pop or something)
As usual, this is mostly on point, but i have some minor quibbles (see above)
1. Yes, he is.
Timbaland & P.E.A.C.E.
If so, that is what this series of posts is.
I challenge anyone to make an insightful argument that either a) Miss E...So Addictive and Da Real World are not classic records, or b) that those two ARE classic but Timbaland is solely responsible for why they are good.
A run-on sentence worthy of Newt Gingritch
I'll be the judge of that.
What has any of this got to do with Missy's rapping (not that I concede that either album is a classic)?
I'm not saying that they're classics at all, although I do think that MissE... is very good. I think that what makes both of those albums good is Timbaland's production and that Missy clearly plays some role in either inspiring him or in convoncing him to discard ideas that are not working, since her solo albums are so much better than his. But she's not really any better of a rapper than him. Or Magoo.
Obv Timbo's production is a huge part of what makes these albums good, but Missy's rapping is key. Everyone is a better rapper than Magoo, but she's definitely one of the most inspired rappers from the past couple years. I know yr real big on 'real talk' or whatever but Missy's rapping is so central to what makes her albums interesting. (I know she isn't, like, knocking you down w/ tounge twisting double time flows or whatever but whenever people start going on about shit like that i get echoes of prog guitarists noodling in my ears.) Her vocals are memorable and a huge part of why people like her tracks. Nobody wrote party rhymes like she did in the late 90s and early 00s.
Aaliyah was a muse, I can see how her vocals seemed to inspire timbaland - but to me the missy albums just prove that they inspired each other, and his shit was equally inspired by her attitude (AS A RAPPER) and her flow and sense of style as was her sense of quality control. (I mean, if her greatest asset was her quality control then how to explain the boring non-heights of their 5th album together?)
Further, listen again to "Lick Shots" and tell me she doesnt tear the shit out of that track.
I can't even take this seriously, deej.
Are you saying that missy songs would have been better with someone else rapping on them? Because i totally disagree. (ALSO I forgot to mention this in the initial post but STREET RAPPERS on Timbo beats, Juvie and B.G. on "U Can't Resist," WHOA.)
these are really all she has going for her. and I don't particularly like either one.
Your position is clear, but it's not credible--I don't think even you believe this stuff.
You might attempt to interest Tom Breihan in having this dialogue with you, though.
Its her whole package that's appealing IMO. No one thing dominates her. She can rebound,distribute,defend on the ball, postup and find the open man. But I wouldnt pput her in the dunk contest w/ other mc's.
entertainer... ok I can give her that though I have never found her the least bit interesting.
She is similar to Puffy or Biz Markie... If you remove rapper and replace it with entertainer then they can be considered "good".
Would you call Doug E. Fresh a "bad" MC?
wouldn't call him a god MC... I would definately lump him in with Puffy and Biz and he did mak go party joints...
Slick Rick always was the dope MC out of that crew both with his style and his story rhymes.
A Doug E Fresh show would blow the hell out of a Slick Rick show.
The question was if Missy was a good mc. Not great or godlike. If she's not great it doesnt mean she cant rock a party.
Puffy shouldnt be even mentioned in this discussion. BizMarkie yes.
Your post is what's
I like Missy. I think she makes great pop songs and almost always makes interesting records. And Fauxsie, I thought you were a big Missy fan?
I am--but I don't think she is a "good rapper"
She's really not a rapper at all--more of an entertainer, like Li'l Jon.
It's unfair to her--and kind of insulting to rappers--to insist on evaluating her as one.