I don't think 'development'='gentrification' per se and thats where we disagree.
How to do you maintain the integrity of a community that wants to stay a community but needs improved social services and investment? Thats been the challenge in bronzeville, where they've been trying to build up that section of MLK drive by 49th. I don't think you have to choose one or the other (blight vs. gentrification). It is a challenge, though; how to maintain community and get the original residents moving up the economic chain, investing in neighborhoods that will otherwise be abandoned.
There are also neighborhoods in chicago that are NOT blighted that have yet to be gentrified, and gentrification will change the nature of the neighborhoods considerably; look at ukranian village, or a few years in the future, albany park.
I don't know too much about Chicago but my impression was that the large projects were being demolished because they were becoming worse and worse, with more crime, more squatters, and less opportunity than ever.
DUUUDE you just took me back to my days in Las Vegas. Plain and simple if you can't live right I really don't have any sympathy for you or your destructive way. Get some muhfucking home training.
There needs to be a distinction made between poverty and gentrification. Gentrification doesn't cause poverty, nor does it end it. It is the free market economy, or more ruthlessly put, big bank take little bank.
Truth spoken
I would like to hear deej's alternatives though...
me too.
BTW BEST URBAN COMPLAINT THREAD POSTERS: BOHEMOTH AND FATBK
zzz like i said i never conflated poverty and gentrification but they are inextricably tied, you can't ignore that. I can't give specific alternatives! I'm not an urban planner. But like i've been saying gentrification vs. blight is not an either-or proposition. Gentrification merely moves the blight around...it doesn't give poor people money, it just shifts them to a new neighborhood.
Are you defending a DJ crew called 'flosstradamus' I'm sure they're nice guys but this urban lifestyle party patrol 'investigative journalism' gets the gas face.
I once watched a guy dump his whole cart of soft pretzels into a puddle in front of Madison Square Garden and the dude just picked them up and put them back in the cart and continued to sell them!
Why would anyone actually buy food from these guys? I guess the only circumstance in which I would is if I were really, really drunk.
BTW BEST URBAN COMPLAINT THREAD POSTERS: BOHEMOTH AND FATBK
PUCHITO MAKING SOME MOVES THOUGH
nah. i came in on the 4th page. usual late pass. the first 3 pages had me fallin out. terry clubbup's skinny jeans thread is where it's at.
on my way
Deej[/b] You want to complain and gripe in detail but not seek a solution?
Just sayin there are parts of cities/ burbs that are pure shit. If dudes want to come in and better land that no one is caring for it ain't the worst thing in the world.
Not everyone living in the projects is trying to improve. Some folks are just slothful
i also don't get why you'd want a track bike (no brakes, no freewheel, 18c tires) for riding up and down hills, swerving through dangerous traffic and torn the fuck up city streets.
but DUUUUUUUUUUDE... It's the hardcroe IRONY of it all!! Seriously, from someone who rode through traffic and torn the fuck up city streets yesterday on a bike fully equipped w/ a freewheel and brakes, I find the 'vintage bianchi converted to a fixie' thing so
can't be worse then the peeps who sell comedy tickets. They catch you with "hey do you like to laugh". wtf. they have a retort for any answer you give them.
Are these people the new human pollution? All of them are FINE girls. "Two free drinks and admit 2, if u cop this package!!" Who's the pimp behind this scam? Sweetheart, who convinced u to peddle COMEDY CLUB TICKETS on the streets of new york? I actually tell them I dont need tickets 'cause this is some free comedy right here!!! WTF.
Are you defending a DJ crew called 'flosstradamus'
yes, because they are good dudes and (more importantly) good DJs. but lets stay on message, i was posting in regards to your ass-hurtedness.
Hey sorry I actually edited that for clarity
Are you defending a DJ crew called 'flosstradamus' I'm sure they're nice guys but this urban lifestyle party patrol 'investigative journalism' gets the gas face.
I'm more bothered by the way this kind of thing is treated as important development in the world of music. I like parties, I've seen flosstradamus at sonotheque and had a good time, I just don't see the value of covering it when there's so much else out there.
I still think 'flosstradamus' is a pretty cheesy name.
Gentrification merely moves the blight around...it doesn't give poor people money, it just shifts them to a new neighborhood.
LOL. I love the idea of "moving the blight around". So if I move said blight around, but give it money, then I'm good?
Oh! Take me back to dear old Blighty, Put me on the train for London Town, Take me anywhere, Drop me anywhere, Cabrini Green, Robert Moses or Barry Farms But I don't care,
Thing is, as you develop a neighborhood you would have to do two things in order for it to fit your desired outcome:
1, prevent people of other places/cultures/races from wanting to move there
2, prevent the landholders from wanting to make more money by renting to people with more available income.
Neither of these things can be controlled, so what you have is a chicken/egg scenario, either the gentrifiers move in and the place gets developed to their taste, and the rent goes up; or the place gets developed and retains some semblance of its original flavor, gentrifiers move in and (eventually) begin to affect the neighborhood itself, and the rent goes up.
Gentrification won't change unless the economy really tanks over a long period and urban economic trends over the past 15 years are reversed. It is a natural biproduct of the way the economy has developed...which, to be sure, has mostly benefitted the "gentrifiers" (predominantly white/asian young, well-educated men and women).
Gentrification merely moves the blight around...it doesn't give poor people money, it just shifts them to a new neighborhood.
LOL. I love the idea of "moving the blight around". So if I move said blight around, but give it money, then I'm good?
Oh! Take me back to dear old Blighty, Put me on the train for London Town, Take me anywhere, Drop me anywhere, Cabrini Green, Robert Moses or Barry Farms But I don't care,
Now you're putting words in my mouth smart guy. Who's talking about 'giving blight money'? Where the fuck do you think all the people living in the projects go when you tear down the projects? They become homeowners?
Once again I agree w/ Johnny; and his example is why I don't have a solution, but I don't think outright advocacy of gentrification as the 'natural way of things' is a reasonable solution, sorry. I think it means we need to work out alternatives to the way we're currently doing things.
And no guzzo, believe it or not people don't have to have a *correct answer* to criticize something. Thats like George Bush saying "I'd like to see you be president" because you tell him he sucks.
Poeple who hold their ears in the subway. WTF are you here in NYC for? Get used to it.
Anything over 85dB is potentially damaging to your ears, and you know that shit can get LOUD, especially in an enclosed concrete area which is basically acting as a giant reverb chamber. Act like a hard-ass new yorker if you want but don't give me dirty looks 'cause I care about my shit.
Poeple who hold their ears in the subway. WTF are you here in NYC for? Get used to it.
Anything over 85dB is potentially damaging to your ears, and you know that shit can get LOUD, especially in an enclosed concrete area which is basically acting as a giant reverb chamber. Act like a hard-ass new yorker if you want but don't give me dirty looks 'cause I care about my shit.
Dude have you read any of my personal ramblings on this site over the last few years? I grew up on welfare with some of the hardest working folks I've ever seen. I've also had neighbors that were just happy to get a welfare check and didn't look to do anything else but complain until the next one came around.
i also don't get why you'd want a track bike (no brakes, no freewheel, 18c tires) for riding up and down hills, swerving through dangerous traffic and torn the fuck up city streets.
but DUUUUUUUUUUDE... It's the hardcroe IRONY of it all!! Seriously, from someone who rode through traffic and torn the fuck up city streets yesterday on a bike fully equipped w/ a freewheel and brakes, I find the 'vintage bianchi converted to a fixie' thing so
you guys are really gonna get SoulOnIce going on this one...
honestly, it's a subculture thing, no different than, um, collecting records ("why would anyone have dusty smelly records around the house? they're heavy and take up too much space. get an ipod. and besides most new music isn't on record anyway!")... people have been riding fixed gear bikes forever, it only becomes a noticable thing when people outside of the hardcore subculture start getting into b/c they percieve it as a "cool" thing to get into (like all the architects and graphic designers who own two 1200's and like 8 records b/c it looks neat...1)
Can someone please start a gentrification thread so we can continue the urban hate.
ditto
yeah definitely.
OK, so flosstradamus are good DJs and good dudes but have a corny name.
NEXT UP.
There are a bunch of dudes in my neighborhood who appear to be 30+ sport scraggly beards and stringy longish hair (kind of like Ogre in Revenge Of The Nerds) and ride skateboards with expensive hoodies camo shorts and wannabe "stunna shades" and ride through red lights flicking off cars that swerve to avoid hitting them (just hit them). You occasionally will catch them trying to bust ollies and failing miserably accidentally kicking their deck into the street and flicking off cars that swerve to avoid hitting it (just hit it).
There are a bunch of dudes in my neighborhood who appear to be 30+ sport scraggly beards and stringy longish hair (kind of like Ogre in Nerds) and ride skateboards with expensive hoodies camo shorts and wannabe "stunna shades" and ride through red lights flicking off cars that swerve to avoid hitting them (just hit them). You occasionally will catch them trying to bust ollies and failing miserably accidentally kicking their deck into the street and flicking off cars that swerve to avoid hitting it (just hit it).
Sayin'. If you can't obey traffic laws on a bike or board, i hope you get hit. Fuck off with your, "I've Got a Right to Be Hostile- My People Been Persecuted," Face.
Conversely, when a car drives through your dried out swimming pool, you can complain about him.
Last post in this thread from me re: gentrification
Yeah dude, poor people are lazy, good one.
talk about changing up peoples words.
Dude have you read any of my personal ramblings on this site over the last few years? I grew up on welfare with some of the hardest working folks I've ever seen. I've also had neighbors that were just happy to get a welfare check and didn't look to do anything else but complain until the next one came around.
some people are just lazy
well duh. I never argued they weren't, so why are you bringing that shit up?
Know-it-all grandma/grandpa that starts to give you advice when your kid is crying in public. Like "Ummm, I think he is hungry", "It's his teeth, they are growing, you know?", "Buy him a 7 UP"
Poeple who hold their ears in the subway. WTF are you here in NYC for? Get used to it.
Anything over 85dB is potentially damaging to your ears, and you know that shit can get LOUD, especially in an enclosed concrete area which is basically acting as a giant reverb chamber. Act like a hard-ass new yorker if you want but don't give me dirty looks 'cause I care about my shit.
Why are u here? Do you wear a gas mask for all the pollution? WTF?
Comments
How to do you maintain the integrity of a community that wants to stay a community but needs improved social services and investment?
Thats been the challenge in bronzeville, where they've been trying to build up that section of MLK drive by 49th. I don't think you have to choose one or the other (blight vs. gentrification). It is a challenge, though; how to maintain community and get the original residents moving up the economic chain, investing in neighborhoods that will otherwise be abandoned.
There are also neighborhoods in chicago that are NOT blighted that have yet to be gentrified, and gentrification will change the nature of the neighborhoods considerably; look at ukranian village, or a few years in the future, albany park.
zzz
like i said i never conflated poverty and gentrification but they are inextricably tied, you can't ignore that.
I can't give specific alternatives! I'm not an urban planner. But like i've been saying gentrification vs. blight is not an either-or proposition. Gentrification merely moves the blight around...it doesn't give poor people money, it just shifts them to a new neighborhood.
nah. i came in on the 4th page. usual late pass. the first 3 pages had me fallin out. terry clubbup's skinny jeans thread is where it's at.
I'm sure they're nice guys but this urban lifestyle party patrol 'investigative journalism' gets the gas face.
I guess the only circumstance in which I would is if I were really, really drunk.
on my way
Deej[/b] You want to complain and gripe in detail but not seek a solution?
Just sayin there are parts of cities/ burbs that are pure shit. If dudes want to come in and better land that no one is caring for it ain't the worst thing in the world.
Not everyone living in the projects is trying to improve. Some folks are just slothful
but DUUUUUUUUUUDE... It's the hardcroe IRONY of it all!!
Seriously, from someone who rode through traffic and torn the fuck up city streets yesterday on a bike fully equipped w/ a freewheel and brakes, I find the 'vintage bianchi converted to a fixie' thing so
Are these people the new human pollution? All of them are FINE girls. "Two free drinks and admit 2, if u cop this package!!" Who's the pimp behind this scam? Sweetheart, who convinced u to peddle COMEDY CLUB TICKETS on the streets of new york? I actually tell them I dont need tickets 'cause this is some free comedy right here!!! WTF.
yes, because they are good dudes and (more importantly) good DJs. but lets stay on message, i was posting in regards to your ass-hurtedness.
Hey sorry I actually edited that for clarity
I'm more bothered by the way this kind of thing is treated as important development in the world of music. I like parties, I've seen flosstradamus at sonotheque and had a good time, I just don't see the value of covering it when there's so much else out there.
I still think 'flosstradamus' is a pretty cheesy name.
LOL. I love the idea of "moving the blight around". So if I move said blight around, but give it money, then I'm good?
Oh! Take me back to dear old Blighty,
Put me on the train for London Town,
Take me anywhere,
Drop me anywhere,
Cabrini Green, Robert Moses or Barry Farms
But I don't care,
1, prevent people of other places/cultures/races from wanting to move there
2, prevent the landholders from wanting to make more money by renting to people with more available income.
Neither of these things can be controlled, so what you have is a chicken/egg scenario, either the gentrifiers move in and the place gets developed to their taste, and the rent goes up; or the place gets developed and retains some semblance of its original flavor, gentrifiers move in and (eventually) begin to affect the neighborhood itself, and the rent goes up.
Gentrification won't change unless the economy really tanks over a long period and urban economic trends over the past 15 years are reversed. It is a natural biproduct of the way the economy has developed...which, to be sure, has mostly benefitted the "gentrifiers" (predominantly white/asian young, well-educated men and women).
Now you're putting words in my mouth smart guy.
Who's talking about 'giving blight money'? Where the fuck do you think all the people living in the projects go when you tear down the projects? They become homeowners?
Once again I agree w/ Johnny; and his example is why I don't have a solution, but I don't think outright advocacy of gentrification as the 'natural way of things' is a reasonable solution, sorry. I think it means we need to work out alternatives to the way we're currently doing things.
And no guzzo, believe it or not people don't have to have a *correct answer* to criticize something. Thats like George Bush saying "I'd like to see you be president" because you tell him he sucks.
anti-megalonychidaeite
Anything over 85dB is potentially damaging to your ears, and you know that shit can get LOUD, especially in an enclosed concrete area which is basically acting as a giant reverb chamber. Act like a hard-ass new yorker if you want but don't give me dirty looks 'cause I care about my shit.
I plan to use this word in conversation with Ryan Seacrest today
talk about changing up peoples words.
Dude have you read any of my personal ramblings on this site over the last few years? I grew up on welfare with some of the hardest working folks I've ever seen. I've also had neighbors that were just happy to get a welfare check and didn't look to do anything else but complain until the next one came around.
some people are just lazy
you guys are really gonna get SoulOnIce going on this one...
honestly, it's a subculture thing, no different than, um, collecting records ("why would anyone have dusty smelly records around the house? they're heavy and take up too much space. get an ipod. and besides most new music isn't on record anyway!")... people have been riding fixed gear bikes forever, it only becomes a noticable thing when people outside of the hardcore subculture start getting into b/c they percieve it as a "cool" thing to get into (like all the architects and graphic designers who own two 1200's and like 8 records b/c it looks neat...1)
yeah definitely.
OK, so flosstradamus are good DJs and good dudes but have a corny name.
NEXT UP.
There are a bunch of dudes in my neighborhood who appear to be 30+ sport scraggly beards and stringy longish hair (kind of like Ogre in Revenge Of The Nerds) and ride skateboards with expensive hoodies camo shorts and wannabe "stunna shades" and ride through red lights flicking off cars that swerve to avoid hitting them (just hit them). You occasionally will catch them trying to bust ollies and failing miserably accidentally kicking their deck into the street and flicking off cars that swerve to avoid hitting it (just hit it).
somebody has poo poo pants.
did my little b-boy make a stinky?
goochi goochi goo!
i'll get your mom to change you.
i'm out.
Sayin'. If you can't obey traffic laws on a bike or board, i hope you get hit. Fuck off with your, "I've Got a Right to Be Hostile- My People Been Persecuted," Face.
Conversely, when a car drives through your dried out swimming pool, you can complain about him.
well duh. I never argued they weren't, so why are you bringing that shit up?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
read up on your read ups
Why are u here? Do you wear a gas mask for all the pollution? WTF?