I have held about 20 or so hearings this year stemming from "grills" in some cases students were robbed for this particular item or someone stole someone elses grill. I invite anyone that's in or will be in the Cleveland, Ohio area to sit in on one of my hearings esp those who think students should be able to rock grills etc etc ie. Harvey.....
damn I am a black cat holding Expulsion Hearings in predominatly black schol district and I am racist??? I cant be serious or its racist because you should be able to rock your girll its a cultural thing... I missed that one
damn I am a black cat holding Expulsion Hearings in predominatly black schol district and I am racist??? I cant be serious or its racist because you should be able to rock your girll its a cultural thing... I missed that one
damn I am a black cat holding Expulsion Hearings in predominatly black schol district and I am racist??? I cant be serious or its racist because you should be able to rock your girll its a cultural thing... I missed that one
If you leave school cause you can't floss your grill, then... well, you're a tool
They're leaving because they can't floss their grills, can't speak their minds, can't learn what they'd like to nor need to learn, etc. It's a cumulative message being sent to a certain segment of society that is very real and destructive.
That cumulative message is "I CAN'T COPE AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME"[/b]
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
How was the student questioning the history lesson? Did he or she debate it in an academic way? Or did the student say something to the effect of " this is fucked up, or this is a bunch of bullshit?" If the student debated it in an academic way, I really doubt he or she would be disciplined for that. I can seeing them sent to the prinicipals office for speaking disrespectfully....
I've seen kids trying to simply discuss history beyond just what the textbook has to offer and the teacher in turn refusing to have the lesson plan held up with such extra-curriculars. Back when I was in high school, I myself had an English teacher disallow me to do an essay on Malcom X since she didn't consider him to be any sort of American hero as the assigment called for.
I can see a school wanting to quiet a student wanting to protest the military in this day and age however...that is wrong...but I dont see how this parallels the "culturally insensitive" argument.
It's a cultural issue because military recruiters disproportionately target schools with large African-American populations. My Haitian-American nephew in Atlanta just got talked into the Army against his family's wishes by one of these cafeteria-stalking assholes. The dudes in NGOK (from Austin) have a scene in a documentary they recently made where their producer gets into it with school administrators over this issue, only to be ushered out of the area by school security. When I saw the Coup perform a week or so ago, Boots made a little speech about this isue and had an organization with a table at the back of the venue trying to rally the troops against it. Point being, I'm not just making this shit up. It's nation-wide.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
If it's not a cultural issue, then why is it only grills and not all jewelry that is up for banning?
I read the first page and couldn't get through the rest of it. Maybe this was covered already, but these kids, with probably a few minor exceptions, are wearing fake diamonds. So what the fuck is the point? When some teenager wears a rock that if real would cost millions of dollars, everyone knows its fake. If it???s a status symbol what does a fake one say about your status. I don't get it, even if grillz are your thing why would you wear a fake one. It like rocking a stark reality bean dip bowel made out of a re-ish. Why bother? When anyone with $20 and an oven could have one.
It's weird to see people with little or no experience with the demographic at hand reacting so strongly to Harvey's statements, and with the same breath accusing him of jerking his knee.
It's weird to see people with little or no experience with the demographic at hand reacting so strongly to Harvey's statements, and with the same breath accusing him of jerking his knee.
How is this factored? How do we know what kind of experience and in what quantity people on this board have?
Harvey, I believe my stance was to dump ALL the extras upon entry to the classroom, and I think I mentioned jewelry in general. And besides, I believe it would be easy to turn banning certain jewelry into a cultural issue too. And I am not even saying it's NOT one, but I would put it more in the category of a sub-cultural issue, as opposed to the idea of banning religious head gear and the like. I don't think it equates as fundamentally oppressive to set a norm of dress and personal appliances/accessories in a situation like schools.
How do we know what kind of experience and in what quantity people on this board have?
Well, we don't know anything, unless they tell us. So far, I have only seen a couple of people state they have first-hand experience with children who are interested with grillz. Both of them had clearly formed opinions and ideas. I'm making the assumption that those people who responded harshly to Harvey's comments would have stated their credentials, had they any.
How do we know what kind of experience and in what quantity people on this board have?
Well, we don't know anything, unless they tell us. So far, I have only seen a couple of people state they have first-hand experience with children who are interested with grillz. Both of them had clearly formed opinions and ideas. I'm making the assumption that those people who responded harshly to Harvey's comments would have stated their credentials, had they any.
worked in the Fort Worth Independent School District for 10 years at 3 different inner city schools...
mentioned it in a different post, but not in my respenses to Harvey...
If the student debated it in an academic way, I really doubt he or she would be disciplined for that. I can seeing them sent to the prinicipals office for speaking disrespectfully....
im guessing youve never been to school if you honestly believe that.
yeah you're right, I have never been to school, or stepped inside a school for that matter...you got me. It is OUTRAGEOUS to think a teacher wouldnt entertain an intellegent debate about the bias of a certain textbook...every teacher in the US is an unconfident imbecile whose ONLY recourse when questioned is to send a kid to a principals office.
you dudes arguing against the grillz-ban are some jokes. We had an actual teacher give a first hand testimony about how they are a distraction and I even gave my homegirl's first-hand account of her dealing with the same shit.
BUT NO DUDE! THEY'RE WRONG! A TEACHER IN A CLASS WOUDN'T KNOW AS MUCH AS I WOULD; I'M A DUDE FROM THE INTERNET!
How do we know what kind of experience and in what quantity people on this board have?
Well, we don't know anything, unless they tell us. So far, I have only seen a couple of people state they have first-hand experience with children who are interested with grillz. Both of them had clearly formed opinions and ideas. I'm making the assumption that those people who responded harshly to Harvey's comments would have stated their credentials, had they any.
worked in the Fort Worth Independent School District for 10 years at 3 different inner city schools...
mentioned it in a different post, but not in my respenses to Harvey...
My comments weren't consciously directed at you, be assured. I think I should have omitted my "in the same breath" comment, as I may be mixing-up who said what.
---
There are different approaches to this thread. You can look at grill ownership and grill restriction on school property as a single, isolated issue. Also, you can look at the school district's actions towards the students as part of a larger issue regarding the quality (or lack therof) of education they are receiving on a local level. Or, you can see this as one of countless symptoms of a much larger problem regarding this country's attitudes towards education and our children's "best interests."
In case it isn't obvious, I fall into the latter category. Banning grillz and gauging? Not that big of a deal. But I find it highly unlikely that it will solve the district's problems. As others have stated, fads come and go. So why keep treating the symptom? I think Tripledouble's list of ways to keep kids interested in what's happening in the classroom should be forwarded to the Texas Board of Education, as it would likely offer teachers more chances for success than simply getting rid of relatively inconsequential material distractions.
Since I moved to Texas I've seen local School Districts ban a number of things including...
Facial Piercings Pencils with Christian quotes embossed on them T-Shirts advertising alcohol and tobacco Distribution of Bibles on school property Gang "colors" Sexually explicit T-shirts and clothing
And many more.....
In many of the clothing/piercing cases the parents did not allow these things at their homes but the children did it behind their backs at school.
In all the cases these things were determined to be "distractions" that had negative impact on the learning/teaching process. You may disagree, but this was the deciding factor in these bans.
Personally I'd solve the Grill problem like this.....
Any student can wear a grill as long as.......
1) The school has written permission from their parent(s) 2) The student carries a B average or above 3) The student has had no attendance or disciplinary issues.
This way we are teaching children that they can "earn" the right to do certain things within set guidelines and whenever a student flossed their grill they would also be flossing their B+ average and good attendance/behavior records.
My guess is that Grills would immediately become "uncool" and the problem would go away by itself.
In 1968 I was in Jr High School. I was in the 7th grade. 3 9th grade girls wore pants, PANTS! to school one day. They were of course immediatley suspended and sent home. The whole school was in an uproar. It was the most outrageous thing that had every happend at Leland Jr High School.
At that time a woman who worked in an office could not wear pants to work. The district was doing the only sensible thing they could. Pants were a distraction. They were not acceptable professional wear. They were overtly sexual.
That same year a 7th grader, Bobby Yale, wore bellbottoms to school. He to was promptly suspended for the same reason.
3 years later bellbottoms for men, and pants for women were the norm in most situations, but at the time...
In 1968 I was in Jr High School. I was in the 7th grade. 3 9th grade girls wore pants, PANTS! to school one day. They were of course immediatley suspended and sent home. The whole school was in an uproar. It was the most outrageous thing that had every happend at Leland Jr High School.
At that time a woman who worked in an office could not wear pants to work. The district was doing the only sensible thing they could. Pants were a distraction. They were not acceptable professional wear. They were overtly sexual.
That same year a 7th grader, Bobby Yale, wore bellbottoms to school. He to was promptly suspended for the same reason.
3 years later bellbottoms for men, and pants for women were the norm in most situations, but at the time...
Damn you're old!!!!
When I was growing up I had "long" hair.....my Dad the NYC Construction Worker hated it and railed against it every chance he could......Mom was more accepting and that's what allowed me to keep it long.
Many years later my brother who is much younger than I am called me and asked me to "Talk to Dad, he won't let me get my hair cut"!!!
I got the old man on the phone and said...."Let me get this straight, all my life you bugged me to cut my hair and now your other son, who has long hair, wants to cut it off and you won't let him!!!???"
He said "You're damn right I won't, he wants to shave his head and I don't want any damn Neo-Nazi Skinhead looking fool living in my house"
Incredulously I replied "Thats the haircut you always wanted ME to get"
Dad finished the conversation by saying, "Yep, but times are different now"
This whole conversation is a great confirmation for why so many parents want to be able to choose the schools where they send their kids rather than deal with a "one policy fits all" approach. Or deal with other parents who disagree with them over policy.
On a different tack: something else to consider in regards to those policies is that it's one thing to point out a correlation doesn't equal causality. In other words, just b/c two sets of data APPEAR to be related, you can't automatically make the claim that there's a cause/effect relationshipo b/t them.
I actually am in support of school uniforms - this said as both a parent and a political progressive - but I also wouldn't assume they're some kind of panacea for fixing a fucked up school. Under the right set of circumstances: adequate funding, well-trained, engaged faculty and administrators, and strong parental participation, I can see how school uniforms might benefit an already forward-moving academic environment. But I could also appreciate that for a very differnt school, the introduction of school uniforms would have a negigible effect on the climate on campus.
Comments
I think he was joking.
I'm kidding with you. I'm in your corner.
my fault.......
I've seen kids trying to simply discuss history beyond just what the textbook has to offer and the teacher in turn refusing to have the lesson plan held up with such extra-curriculars. Back when I was in high school, I myself had an English teacher disallow me to do an essay on Malcom X since she didn't consider him to be any sort of American hero as the assigment called for.
It's a cultural issue because military recruiters disproportionately target schools with large African-American populations. My Haitian-American nephew in Atlanta just got talked into the Army against his family's wishes by one of these cafeteria-stalking assholes. The dudes in NGOK (from Austin) have a scene in a documentary they recently made where their producer gets into it with school administrators over this issue, only to be ushered out of the area by school security. When I saw the Coup perform a week or so ago, Boots made a little speech about this isue and had an organization with a table at the back of the venue trying to rally the troops against it. Point being, I'm not just making this shit up. It's nation-wide.
gauging much?
earrings have always been banned at the schools I went to.
How is this factored? How do we know what kind of experience and in what quantity people on this board have?
Harvey, I believe my stance was to dump ALL the extras upon entry to the classroom, and I think I mentioned jewelry in general. And besides, I believe it would be easy to turn banning certain jewelry into a cultural issue too. And I am not even saying it's NOT one, but I would put it more in the category of a sub-cultural issue, as opposed to the idea of banning religious head gear and the like. I don't think it equates as fundamentally oppressive to set a norm of dress and personal appliances/accessories in a situation like schools.
Well, we don't know anything, unless they tell us. So far, I have only seen a couple of people state they have first-hand experience with children who are interested with grillz. Both of them had clearly formed opinions and ideas. I'm making the assumption that those people who responded harshly to Harvey's comments would have stated their credentials, had they any.
worked in the Fort Worth Independent School District for 10 years at 3 different inner city schools...
mentioned it in a different post, but not in my respenses to Harvey...
yeah you're right, I have never been to school, or stepped inside a school for that matter...you got me. It is OUTRAGEOUS to think a teacher wouldnt entertain an intellegent debate about the bias of a certain textbook...every teacher in the US is an unconfident imbecile whose ONLY recourse when questioned is to send a kid to a principals office.
It's just another one of the many red-herrings Harvey has thrown into the debate in an effort to portray some of us as colonizers of black minds.
BUT NO DUDE! THEY'RE WRONG! A TEACHER IN A CLASS WOUDN'T KNOW AS MUCH AS I WOULD; I'M A DUDE FROM THE INTERNET!
GTFOOHWTBS!
im having a wack day at work.
My comments weren't consciously directed at you, be assured. I think I should have omitted my "in the same breath" comment, as I may be mixing-up who said what.
---
There are different approaches to this thread. You can look at grill ownership and grill restriction on school property as a single, isolated issue. Also, you can look at the school district's actions towards the students as part of a larger issue regarding the quality (or lack therof) of education they are receiving on a local level. Or, you can see this as one of countless symptoms of a much larger problem regarding this country's attitudes towards education and our children's "best interests."
In case it isn't obvious, I fall into the latter category. Banning grillz and gauging? Not that big of a deal. But I find it highly unlikely that it will solve the district's problems. As others have stated, fads come and go. So why keep treating the symptom? I think Tripledouble's list of ways to keep kids interested in what's happening in the classroom should be forwarded to the Texas Board of Education, as it would likely offer teachers more chances for success than simply getting rid of relatively inconsequential material distractions.
And with that, I'm done.
And once again I've learned that HarveyCanal is a fucking idiot, and thats about it.
Facial Piercings
Pencils with Christian quotes embossed on them
T-Shirts advertising alcohol and tobacco
Distribution of Bibles on school property
Gang "colors"
Sexually explicit T-shirts and clothing
And many more.....
In many of the clothing/piercing cases the parents did not allow these things at their homes but the children did it behind their backs at school.
In all the cases these things were determined to be "distractions" that had negative impact on the learning/teaching process. You may disagree, but this was the deciding factor in these bans.
Personally I'd solve the Grill problem like this.....
Any student can wear a grill as long as.......
1) The school has written permission from their parent(s)
2) The student carries a B average or above
3) The student has had no attendance or disciplinary issues.
This way we are teaching children that they can "earn" the right to do certain things within set guidelines and whenever a student flossed their grill they would also be flossing their B+ average and good attendance/behavior records.
My guess is that Grills would immediately become "uncool" and the problem would go away by itself.
In 1968 I was in Jr High School. I was in the 7th grade. 3 9th grade girls wore pants, PANTS! to school one day. They were of course immediatley suspended and sent home. The whole school was in an uproar. It was the most outrageous thing that had every happend at Leland Jr High School.
At that time a woman who worked in an office could not wear pants to work. The district was doing the only sensible thing they could. Pants were a distraction. They were not acceptable professional wear. They were overtly sexual.
That same year a 7th grader, Bobby Yale, wore bellbottoms to school. He to was promptly suspended for the same reason.
3 years later bellbottoms for men, and pants for women were the norm in most situations, but at the time...
Awesome. 3 years from now, I'll be flossing a grill!
Damn you're old!!!!
When I was growing up I had "long" hair.....my Dad the NYC Construction Worker hated it and railed against it every chance he could......Mom was more accepting and that's what allowed me to keep it long.
Many years later my brother who is much younger than I am called me and asked me to "Talk to Dad, he won't let me get my hair cut"!!!
I got the old man on the phone and said...."Let me get this straight, all my life you bugged me to cut my hair and now your other son, who has long hair, wants to cut it off and you won't let him!!!???"
He said "You're damn right I won't, he wants to shave his head and I don't want any damn Neo-Nazi Skinhead looking fool living in my house"
Incredulously I replied "Thats the haircut you always wanted ME to get"
Dad finished the conversation by saying, "Yep, but times are different now"
On a different tack: something else to consider in regards to those policies is that it's one thing to point out a correlation doesn't equal causality. In other words, just b/c two sets of data APPEAR to be related, you can't automatically make the claim that there's a cause/effect relationshipo b/t them.
I actually am in support of school uniforms - this said as both a parent and a political progressive - but I also wouldn't assume they're some kind of panacea for fixing a fucked up school. Under the right set of circumstances: adequate funding, well-trained, engaged faculty and administrators, and strong parental participation, I can see how school uniforms might benefit an already forward-moving academic environment. But I could also appreciate that for a very differnt school, the introduction of school uniforms would have a negigible effect on the climate on campus.