I am shooting the record down by claiming it was not HUGE??
I knew I shouldn't have waded knee deep into bullshit like this!
Why is it bullshit? To me, Passing Me By and I Used to Love HER were on equal footing...yet you consider one huge and the other not.
The Choice Is Yours was Rap City's video of the year. Was that single huge?
Was TROY huge? Was Come Clean huge?
I'd say yes to all of them.
cosign, they just never fit the bill to cross over at that time. PO Pimpin was on teh same level. that shit never crossed over outside of maybe major market radio airplay.
Coming form the midwest, crucial conflict was big for maybe 15 minutes, and only becuase of "Hay". It was enough for them to sell a shitload of albums, but the record was so bad, the group was pretty much forgotten and never managed to make any type of comeback.
You all talk album sales, but the main issue is that most rap groups were against "crossing over" then for fear of the same backlash that occurred with MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice. On top of that unless the groups fit a certain role, it was almost impossible for a rap group to crossover. Add to the fact that outside of major cities there were no Rap stations there were only rap shows on pop or R&B stations.
And to say Crucial Conflict is Chicagos biggest rap export is just dumb. Kanye is the biggest export, his numbers for BOTH of his albums far outweigh Crucial conflict. And really Common trumps them too only because of his longevity.
Do or Die is not considered any kind of pioneers. We thought they were jocking UGk and southern or gangsta rappers at the time. Twista was just crazy because of the speed he raps, but he had a string of duds for albums for years.
coming from the eastcoast, crucial conflict was big for maybe 10 minutes for "hay" and the accompanying video shot in a barn. do or die had one song that was played on east coast radio. twista was only noteworthy as being in the guinness book of worlds records as the fastest rapper. da brat got more play that any of the aforementioned. "da b side" , "funkdafied" and "im gonna give it to you" were jams. however, i dont think she came off as a chicago rapper. i always assumed she from atlanta.
Johnny I think this whole debate lost its place a few posts ago.
Plain and simple some people here are saying Common was a major chicago export during the 90's. I Used to love H.E.R. is an incredibly well known song by those in the hip-hop world and the album ressurection gets love quite a bit (not counting the source ).
Crucial Conflict were one-hit wonders and although it was a big hit I doubt you can say any group with a three minute thirty second legacy can be considered chicago's biggest export during that time.
33 1/3 raised an incredibly good point about rappers not wanting to cross over. Definitly something to keep in mind for a discussion like this.
I am shooting the record down by claiming it was not HUGE??
I knew I shouldn't have waded knee deep into bullshit like this!
Why is it bullshit? To me, Passing Me By and I Used to Love HER were on equal footing...yet you consider one huge and the other not.
The Choice Is Yours was Rap City's video of the year. Was that single huge?
Was TROY huge? Was Come Clean huge?
I'd say yes to all of them.
As a kid who was soaking up all the rap radio and TV I could at the time:
Passing me By and Choice is Yours were huge
The others were not
DING DING DING
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I am shooting the record down by claiming it was not HUGE??
I knew I shouldn't have waded knee deep into bullshit like this!
Why is it bullshit? To me, Passing Me By and I Used to Love HER were on equal footing...yet you consider one huge and the other not.
The Choice Is Yours was Rap City's video of the year. Was that single huge?
Was TROY huge? Was Come Clean huge?
I'd say yes to all of them.
As a kid who was soaking up all the rap radio and TV I could at the time:
Passing me By and Choice is Yours were huge
The others were not
So am I to forget going to see Tribe/De La/Hiero at the Bomb Factory in Dallas towards the end of '93 and having the dj's drop Come Clean no less than 4 times during the night, with a crowd of thousands literally stopping in its tracks each time to recite the lyrics in unison???
Nobody Soundscanned it so I guess it doesn't count.
I'm not arguing that Common was small; his capacity to keep building his career and make records that are well-received (by some) is really rare in hip-hop. I am stating, merely, that "I Used To Love H.E.R." was not huge. And I really don't think there's an argument there.
Resurrection is one of my top 5 hip-hop records ever, so don't even play that "self-serving argument" BS with me.
What does "huge" mean though? There's "commercially" big and then there's "culturally" big. I think one could easily argue that Common's song has had a cultural legacy longer than the other groups being mentioned. Not like "Brown Sugar" was a huge movie but shit, that whole movie was based on Common's song.
LOL at "cultural legacy"
Oliver, I love that song and still do, but a lot of the 'real hip-hop' rhetoric that informed was really just a euphemism for hostility towards emergent regional styles and, uh, Common lost on that one. Big time. It looks quaint in retrospect.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
The running joke is now fools who moved from smaller cities to NYC who now think it's their responsibility to rep for "regional rap".
So am I to forget going to see Tribe/De La/Hiero at the Bomb Factory in Dallas towards the end of '93 and having the dj's drop Come Clean no less than 4 times during the night, with a crowd of thousands literally stopping in its tracks each time to recite the lyrics in unison???
Nobody Soundscanned it so I guess it doesn't count.
When I dropped it at the bar a month ago a group of dudes huddled in a corner looked up and smiled, I think one of them even yelled out
That still doesn't mean it was a huge record though
MAN Most of the groups coming out of the midwest at that time were considered garbage at that time outside of VERY small local followings. Common was as close to defining chicago style at that time as any of the groups coming out. As noted most people thought Da Brat repped ATL, Twista was back and forth between Chicago and New Orleans, Do Or Die were imitating southern rappers, MC Breed was west coast style... fuck even Bone Thugs (clevelands biggest export) were more west coast than anything else.
MAN Most of the groups coming out of the midwest at that time were considered garbage at that time outside of VERY small local followings. Common was as close to defining chicago style at that time as any of the groups coming out. As noted most people thought Da Brat repped ATL, Twista was back and forth between Chicago and New Orleans, Do Or Die were imitating southern rappers, MC Breed was west coast style... fuck even Bone Thugs (clevelands biggest export) were more west coast than anything else.
What's weird about that though is a lot of Chicago dudes at the time were dissing him for being too "New York"...
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I thought it was dudes who couldn't decide which "region" they wanted to rep.
Supporting each of Project Blowed, Hobo Junction, and New Generation of Kings is what some people call consistency across so-called regional borders.
I've moved around but for the most part stuck to my guns. And I contribute to my local scenes.
Completely changing my steez over the course of a mere decade and acting like surrogate judge from afar I do not.
I feel like we're REALLY getting on some nerded up, semantic debate which, while fun seems like some real razor thin hair splitting.
I mean, JESUS CHRIST, are we really having this big argument over whether or not "Common was Chicago's main hip-hop export"?
Ok, sure, that's up for debate but this question of what makes a single "huge" is kind of bizarre, even for me. I mean, I think most of us would agree there are songs that don't sell big that end up having a lasting influence in ways that really popular "successful" songs don't.
That doesn't suddenly miminize the importance or influence of more popular tracks but seriously, the Top 40 is litered with #1 songs no one ever cared about two years later.
That said, I don't think "Come Clean" and "I Used To Love H.E.R." were on the same level as something like "Passin Me By" or "It Takes Two" insofar as the crossover appeal of the latter two exceeded the "real headz" quotient of the former pair.
MAN Most of the groups coming out of the midwest at that time were considered garbage at that time outside of VERY small local followings. Common was as close to defining chicago style at that time as any of the groups coming out. As noted most people thought Da Brat repped ATL, Twista was back and forth between Chicago and New Orleans, Do Or Die were imitating southern rappers, MC Breed was west coast style... fuck even Bone Thugs (clevelands biggest export) were more west coast than anything else.
What's weird about that though is a lot of Chicago dudes at the time were dissing him for being too "New York"...
true but that was the only way to get on at the time, be from or act like you're from a coast (outside of rap-a-lot). If you couldn't do that then it was a really tough grind. Fuck i remember when Detroit's Most Wanted dropped their first album, straight jackin west coast style even in the name...
I suppose that some folks don't go to clubs/shows and think that they aren't missing out on anything.
I'm still not getting how Passing Me By and The Choice Is Yours were any bigger than Come Clean and I Used to Love HER.
I think it's a matter of degrees. Are you saying all four songs were pretty much on the same level of popularity and import? I would never say "Come Clean" wasn't "big". But "as big"?
Again, I don't know if any of us are *fundamentally* disagreeing with one another.
MAN Most of the groups coming out of the midwest at that time were considered garbage at that time outside of VERY small local followings. Common was as close to defining chicago style at that time as any of the groups coming out. As noted most people thought Da Brat repped ATL, Twista was back and forth between Chicago and New Orleans, Do Or Die were imitating southern rappers, MC Breed was west coast style... fuck even Bone Thugs (clevelands biggest export) were more west coast than anything else.
What's weird about that though is a lot of Chicago dudes at the time were dissing him for being too "New York"...
true but that was the only way to get on at the time, be from or act like you're from a coast (outside of rap-a-lot). If you couldn't do that then it was a really tough grind. Fuck i remember when Detroit's Most Wanted dropped their first album, straight jackin west coast style even in the name...
Well to me it was more indicative of the attitude that if you were doing something different, specifically if it involved sample-based beats and "lyrical" rhymes, that you were "trying to be from New York".
I suppose that some folks don't go to clubs/shows and think that they aren't missing out on anything.
I'm still not getting how Passing Me By and The Choice Is Yours were any bigger than Come Clean and I Used to Love HER.
I think it's a matter of degrees. Are you saying all four songs were pretty much on the same level of popularity and import? I would never say "Come Clean" wasn't "big". But "as big"?
Again, I don't know if any of us are *fundamentally* disagreeing with one another.
all rap nerds must disagree with one another when talking via the internet.
The only time they come together is to smash those that know less than them.
How could you rep a place better than by living there?
sounds like a quote out of the mouth of Senator Tom Tancredo
even in your wacky-world of thinking i would have expected you to realize that people move to new cities for reasons other than "reppin' that local experience/real schitt".
given that to be my case, why would i ignore my past? or would you prefer people just to assimilate into their new surroundings and forget any attributes of thier previous culture.
I suppose that some folks don't go to clubs/shows and think that they aren't missing out on anything.
I'm still not getting how Passing Me By and The Choice Is Yours were any bigger than Come Clean and I Used to Love HER.
I think it's a matter of degrees. Are you saying all four songs were pretty much on the same level of popularity and import? I would never say "Come Clean" wasn't "big". But "as big"?
Again, I don't know if any of us are *fundamentally* disagreeing with one another.
the former 2 had crossover success and are still played at a fraternity house near you. they also had regular radio play, and black sheep were on mtv all the time. i only remember come clean being played on mixshows and i used to love her didn't get radio play at all.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I suppose that some folks don't go to clubs/shows and think that they aren't missing out on anything.
I'm still not getting how Passing Me By and The Choice Is Yours were any bigger than Come Clean and I Used to Love HER.
I think it's a matter of degrees. Are you saying all four songs were pretty much on the same level of popularity and import? I would never say "Come Clean" wasn't "big". But "as big"?
Again, I don't know if any of us are *fundamentally* disagreeing with one another.
First allow me to say that none of this stuff we're talking about is all that heavy to me. You're right, we're not too far off from agreeing on this stuff. And I hope y'all aren't taking my jokes[/b] as frontal assaults.
But then again, I think I'm seeing faulty hindsight at work. I suppose since The Choice Is Yours and Passing Me By have stood up against the test of time better than Come Clean and I Used to Love HER that we're now supposed to wipe from our memories that a seemingly equal number of people were enthusiatsically into each of them as they initially dropped.
It's not like we're comparing Guns and Roses to Freestyle Fellowship here.
Comments
please elaborate. everything I talked about occurred in the 90s.
Why is it bullshit? To me, Passing Me By and I Used to Love HER were on equal footing...yet you consider one huge and the other not.
The Choice Is Yours was Yo MTV Raps' video of the year. Was that single huge?
Was TROY huge? Was Come Clean huge?
I'd say yes to all of them.
As a kid who was soaking up all the rap radio and TV I could at the time:
Passing me By and Choice is Yours were huge
The others were not
cosign, they just never fit the bill to cross over at that time. PO Pimpin was on teh same level. that shit never crossed over outside of maybe major market radio airplay.
coming from the eastcoast, crucial conflict was big for maybe 10 minutes for "hay" and the accompanying video shot in a barn. do or die had one song that was played on east coast radio. twista was only noteworthy as being in the guinness book of worlds records as the fastest rapper. da brat got more play that any of the aforementioned. "da b side" , "funkdafied" and "im gonna give it to you" were jams. however, i dont think she came off as a chicago rapper. i always assumed she from atlanta.
Plain and simple some people here are saying Common was a major chicago export during the 90's. I Used to love H.E.R. is an incredibly well known song by those in the hip-hop world and the album ressurection gets love quite a bit (not counting the source
Crucial Conflict were one-hit wonders and although it was a big hit I doubt you can say any group with a three minute thirty second legacy can be considered chicago's biggest export during that time.
33 1/3 raised an incredibly good point about rappers not wanting to cross over. Definitly something to keep in mind for a discussion like this.
funny considering chicago rapper shawnna now wants you to think she's from atlanta
DING DING DING
So am I to forget going to see Tribe/De La/Hiero at the Bomb Factory in Dallas towards the end of '93 and having the dj's drop Come Clean no less than 4 times during the night, with a crowd of thousands literally stopping in its tracks each time to recite the lyrics in unison???
Nobody Soundscanned it so I guess it doesn't count.
LOL at "cultural legacy"
Oliver, I love that song and still do, but a lot of the 'real hip-hop' rhetoric that informed was really just a euphemism for hostility towards emergent regional styles and, uh, Common lost on that one. Big time. It looks quaint in retrospect.
ORLY?
I thought it was dudes who couldn't decide which "region" they wanted to rep.
When I dropped it at the bar a month ago a group of dudes huddled in a corner looked up and smiled, I think one of them even yelled out
That still doesn't mean it was a huge record though
why is that a joke/funny????
What's weird about that though is a lot of Chicago dudes at the time were dissing him for being too "New York"...
Supporting each of Project Blowed, Hobo Junction, and New Generation of Kings is what some people call consistency across so-called regional borders.
I've moved around but for the most part stuck to my guns. And I contribute to my local scenes.
Completely changing my steez over the course of a mere decade and acting like surrogate judge from afar I do not.
I feel like we're REALLY getting on some nerded up, semantic debate which, while fun seems like some real razor thin hair splitting.
I mean, JESUS CHRIST, are we really having this big argument over whether or not "Common was Chicago's main hip-hop export"?
Ok, sure, that's up for debate but this question of what makes a single "huge" is kind of bizarre, even for me. I mean, I think most of us would agree there are songs that don't sell big that end up having a lasting influence in ways that really popular "successful" songs don't.
That doesn't suddenly miminize the importance or influence of more popular tracks but seriously, the Top 40 is litered with #1 songs no one ever cared about two years later.
That said, I don't think "Come Clean" and "I Used To Love H.E.R." were on the same level as something like "Passin Me By" or "It Takes Two" insofar as the crossover appeal of the latter two exceeded the "real headz" quotient of the former pair.
How could you rep a place better than by living there?
To y'all's credit, do y'all think of yourselves as Johnnyappleseedeurs[/b]?
I'm still not getting how Passing Me By and The Choice Is Yours were any bigger than Come Clean and I Used to Love HER.
true but that was the only way to get on at the time, be from or act like you're from a coast (outside of rap-a-lot). If you couldn't do that then it was a really tough grind. Fuck i remember when Detroit's Most Wanted dropped their first album, straight jackin west coast style even in the name...
Jonny spells his name without an "H."
I think it's a matter of degrees. Are you saying all four songs were pretty much on the same level of popularity and import? I would never say "Come Clean" wasn't "big". But "as big"?
Again, I don't know if any of us are *fundamentally* disagreeing with one another.
Well to me it was more indicative of the attitude that if you were doing something different, specifically if it involved sample-based beats and "lyrical" rhymes, that you were "trying to be from New York".
all rap nerds must disagree with one another when talking via the internet.
The only time they come together is to smash those that know less than them.
it's a known fact
check wikipedia
sounds like a quote out of the mouth of Senator Tom Tancredo
even in your wacky-world of thinking i would have expected you to realize that people move to new cities for reasons other than "reppin' that local experience/real schitt".
given that to be my case, why would i ignore my past? or would you prefer people just to assimilate into their new surroundings and forget any attributes of thier previous culture.
you sounding very Lou Dobbs-esque right now...
the former 2 had crossover success and are still played at a fraternity house near you. they also had regular radio play, and black sheep were on mtv all the time. i only remember come clean being played on mixshows and i used to love her didn't get radio play at all.
First allow me to say that none of this stuff we're talking about is all that heavy to me. You're right, we're not too far off from agreeing on this stuff. And I hope y'all aren't taking my jokes[/b] as frontal assaults.
But then again, I think I'm seeing faulty hindsight at work. I suppose since The Choice Is Yours and Passing Me By have stood up against the test of time better than Come Clean and I Used to Love HER that we're now supposed to wipe from our memories that a seemingly equal number of people were enthusiatsically into each of them as they initially dropped.
It's not like we're comparing Guns and Roses to Freestyle Fellowship here.