I would pay 100 for that Dorthy Ashby 'Rubaiyat' joint....
And you'd be at least $50 short...
Maybe a few years ago, but that record's now pretty steady at just shy of a bill.
Back when found mine, I saw it go for $325 on the Bay... wish I'd sold mine then instead of waiting until last year to trade.
Shops still put $150 on it.
Ebay is not a price guide.
A single eBay auction certainly isn't a good indicator of price, but multiple auctions taken together are evidence of what people actually are paying for the record. What a shop asks for it doesn't establish anything unless they succeed in moving it at that price. Check popsike--six copies have sold in the past year and not one has hit a bill.
No, ebay is an entirely different market than a record shop, where you can inspect the goods prior to purchase.
I've seen Rubaiyat move twice in the last year for over $150.
There are tons of records that are either inflated or deflated on ebay. It's a ridiculous system for basing prices, unless you don't know much about records beyond what people have bought online in the past year.
There are tons of people that don't use ebay at all; it's just another place to buy records. Just because, say, A-1 puts something on a record (and it moves) doesn't make it worth that. Conversely, just because people on ebay are only paying $90 for that record doesn't mean it's worth that. For instance, Dorothy's Harp, her most common Cadet title, was regularly peaking over a bill for a while whereas the year previous it was steady at $50.
Look, your argument mostly sounds like a justification for shopping at bricks and mortar stores rather than online, and I am not at all hostile to that approach; I frequently pay in excess of the going eBay rate for a record when I can inspect it personally.
But none of this changes the fact that that record can regularly be gotten for less than a bill.
No, perhaps the nuance was lost on you but I am talking about "value" versus "price". Like lots of commodities, things are overvalued and undervalued all the time. I would actually suggest to Drewn that he buy; I think that record is underpriced online right now.
But ebay is an online marketplace where prices are determined by people all over the world who are on the internet at that moment and takes into account completely different value systems, depending on who you are: for instance Reynaldo has been paying over what records are "worth" recently. The fact that he's willing to shell out for these records doesn't change their value. There are high school kids with parents' credit cards willing to shell out tons of money for a record that they absolutely need but would you trust a 15 year old to price a record? The Japanese, French, Germans, British, etc all determine what their price is for a record on ebay, but that doesn't make it accurate.
I mean, you are arguing for the lower price either way; if it's too high you will say that it's just a $___ record, ebay is inflating it. But if it's cheaper on ebay, then you will argue that the actual value has fallen. I'm not mad at it, but that's a self-serving argument with no consistency. There's a lot more to pricing a record than what it went for on popsike, gemm, or ebay in the last 12 months.
That said, I don't really blow $100 on a record on ebay too much anymore. Too many bad experiences. So that's certainly influencing my thoughts on it.
I recently had a similar convo to this with Cool Chris, Jinx and one of Hungary's Crate Soul Brothers and what we all agreed upon is that:
ebay should NOT be a price guide...
...but it is. I don't need to tell you that record sellers regularly use eBay (and popsike.com for that matter) as a rule for how they should price their records. And I agree, they're not taking into account the fact that two psycho bidders do not a price rule make but nonetheless, if they see X LP sell for $150, they'll assume that if they have X LP in their store, it should also be around that high.
Once you have enough sellers sign on with that mentality, a new price has effectively been set in the marketplace, artificially or not.
pop asanovic-majko zemljo roy ayers-coffy soundtrack roy ayers-he's coming roy ayers-ubiquity (all under a hundred though) string beat jo ann garrett-just a taste weldon irvine-sinbad (way under a hundred but still pretty solid) la planete sauvage soundtrack silhouettes-conversation with (although this one has been peaking over 100 lately) ray tabs trio (not everyones taste though but i like it) vibrettes-humpty dump 45 marva whitney-it's my thing
Agreed. I think that the right way to do it is to not be money-hungry; Chris is a great example. Some things in his store seem expensive, but I always find something that I think is underpriced. Mark of a great shop.
[quoteroy ayers-coffy soundtrack string beat weldon irvine-sinbad (way under a hundred but still pretty solid)
Agreed!
It blows my mind that Ayres' early Polydor LPs go for $100+ but I guess I was lucky in finding all of them for far, far less. I think Ayers' LPs are more likely to end up underpriced though b/c a lot of sellers not in the know just assume that there's no diff b/t "He's Coming" and "Vibrations"
I would pay 100 for that Dorthy Ashby 'Rubaiyat' joint....
And you'd be at least $50 short...
Maybe a few years ago, but that record's now pretty steady at just shy of a bill.
Back when found mine, I saw it go for $325 on the Bay... wish I'd sold mine then instead of waiting until last year to trade.
Shops still put $150 on it.
Ebay is not a price guide.
A single eBay auction certainly isn't a good indicator of price, but multiple auctions taken together are evidence of what people actually are paying for the record. What a shop asks for it doesn't establish anything unless they succeed in moving it at that price. Check popsike--six copies have sold in the past year and not one has hit a bill.
No, ebay is an entirely different market than a record shop, where you can inspect the goods prior to purchase.
I've seen Rubaiyat move twice in the last year for over $150.
There are tons of records that are either inflated or deflated on ebay. It's a ridiculous system for basing prices, unless you don't know much about records beyond what people have bought online in the past year.
There are tons of people that don't use ebay at all; it's just another place to buy records. Just because, say, A-1 puts something on a record (and it moves) doesn't make it worth that. Conversely, just because people on ebay are only paying $90 for that record doesn't mean it's worth that. For instance, Dorothy's Harp, her most common Cadet title, was regularly peaking over a bill for a while whereas the year previous it was steady at $50.
Look, your argument mostly sounds like a justification for shopping at bricks and mortar stores rather than online, and I am not at all hostile to that approach; I frequently pay in excess of the going eBay rate for a record when I can inspect it personally.
But none of this changes the fact that that record can regularly be gotten for less than a bill.
No, perhaps the nuance was lost on you but I am talking about "value" versus "price". Like lots of commodities, things are overvalued and undervalued all the time. I would actually suggest to Drewn that he buy; I think that record is underpriced online right now.
But ebay is an online marketplace where prices are determined by people all over the world who are on the internet at that moment and takes into account completely different value systems, depending on who you are: for instance Reynaldo has been paying over what records are "worth" recently. The fact that he's willing to shell out for these records doesn't change their value. There are high school kids with parents' credit cards willing to shell out tons of money for a record that they absolutely need but would you trust a 15 year old to price a record? The Japanese, French, Germans, British, etc all determine what their price is for a record on ebay, but that doesn't make it accurate.
How do any of these factors not pertain to real world record stores, though? You're telling me that clueless rich kids don't spend their parents' money at Sound Library? That French and German guys don't come to New York and go on record buying sprees? Ebay's far from a perfect market but it's a much better approximation of one than the random sampling of customers that happen to wander through a particular record store's doors; it connects people trying to unload a record with more potential buyers than any other medium.
I mean, you are arguing for the lower price either way; if it's too high you will say that it's just a $___ record, ebay is inflating it. But if it's cheaper on ebay, then you will argue that the actual value has fallen. I'm not mad at it, but that's a self-serving argument with no consistency. There's a lot more to pricing a record than what it went for on popsike, gemm, or ebay in the last 12 months.
Well, that would be a self-serving argument. But it's not my argument.
That said, I don't really blow $100 on a record on ebay too much anymore. Too many bad experiences. So that's certainly influencing my thoughts on it.
No, me neither. I hear what you are saying, but I still think most of it pertains more to how the knowledgable buyer conducts himself than it does to the market as a whole, which consists of more ignorant buyers than knowledgable ones.
24 karat well worth it hells belles lyman woodword organization hair and thangs peddlers suite london (prolly a lil under a bill, but i love it) t.o.b.e. (yes, it a one tracker, but oh my) del jones s.o.u.l. - what it is lafayette afro rock band - malik (anyone got one for me for a bill??)
johnnny pringles, cease with all yor damn nuance price talk. who your geoorge soros of the frickin sooulstrutt universe and shit??? come down to philly and ill arm restle you for a yingling yo o scmendrick. heh,medpills plaese
and i weigh in for rubiyat as the best of the trio
...but it is. I don't need to tell you that record sellers regularly use eBay (and popsike.com for that matter) as a rule for how they should price their records. And I agree, they're not taking into account the fact that two psycho bidders do not a price rule make but nonetheless, if they see X LP sell for $150, they'll assume that if they have X LP in their store, it should also be around that high.
Yes, it's true that two nutjobs can together grossly inflate the price of a record. But what about when a record has consistently closed within a $20 window over an 18 month period? Are you as inclined to dismiss that?
I agree that bricks and mortar stores seeking to sell records should not use eBay as a price guide.
But I don't agree that people seeking to buy a record should ignore eBay when determining how much they want to pay for it.
Well, I don't think TSL prices all the time to Japanese or 15 year old kids. Having talked to them about many different records' prices I think that would be selling their knowledge very short. Again, if I'm being unclear, I'm basically saying that any dealer, online or otherwise, should have a fair idea of what a record's worth without checking popsike. Whether ebay duplicates that or not is random and fickle. But ebay can be a great bargain in situations like this.
Another good example is hip-hop 12"s which are now rock bottom on ebay but for a store are not. Disco 12"s that were $250 last year and now are $75 online. I mean, the list goes on and on and you are right, it's influenced by fickle buyers who don't really know shit - which is why i don't think it's a good price guide. You know what my response is when someone tells me, "man I can get that for $__ on ebay"? Do that shit! I hear more complaints at this point about that stuff than endorsements.
I do think that you'd argue for cheaper prices regardless, but that's not proven here
Edit: this discussion started with you declaring the price on Rubaiyat to be, unequivocally, under $100. I don't know of a store that would sell it that cheap unless they didn't know what it was.
TONY! I am fucking Kudlow and Cramer of this record shit! Step off when I come to Philly with my stocks and bonds!
pop asanovic-majko zemljo jo ann garrett-just a taste silhouettes-conversation with (although this one has been peaking over 100 lately) ray tabs trio (not everyones taste though but i like it)
dave
can you tell me a bit about these Dave? I know either know about or have the other ones you mentioned
pop asanovic-majko zemljo jo ann garrett-just a taste silhouettes-conversation with (although this one has been peaking over 100 lately) ray tabs trio (not everyones taste though but i like it)
dave
can you tell me a bit about these Dave? I know either know about or have the other ones you mentioned
i dont know roy tabbs, but silhouettes, well worth it fonky first is one of the illest ever, and hashibaba is dope
joanngarret, noway (IMHO jonbrocli!) its cool chess female vocal soulful not funky enuff for me
pop asanovic, thats a great price. its from some eastern european country (yugoslavia?) and he does a unattributed jamesbrown cover and the reord is pretty dope and he looks like shaggy scrappy doo on the keyborrd.
peddlers suite london (prolly a lil under a bill, but i love it) what's the dilly with this one? I have about 3 of their other lp's but they ain't rilly poppin for me----this one has some nice breaks right?
peddlers suite london (prolly a lil under a bill, but i love it) what's the dilly with this one? I have about 3 of their other lp's but they ain't rilly poppin for me----this one has some nice breaks right?
del jones----what's the dilly with this?
suite london has classical songs with poppin drums, its got really brooding mellow songs with tense dramatic build up drums while still being mellow, the vocals are a lil constipated, but raining in london is kinda hot and theres breaks all over it. its peddlers with london orc-estra
peddlers suite london (prolly a lil under a bill, but i love it) what's the dilly with this one? I have about 3 of their other lp's but they ain't rilly poppin for me----this one has some nice breaks right?
del jones----what's the dilly with this?
del jones is some philly tortured black man soul ridiculous madness righteous semi political but more social invective ill funk record. he's still around on some very pro-black tip. hats off to del, theres an earlier issue of the record thats a lil different and much uch harder to get.
suite london has classical songs with poppin drums, its got really brooding mellow songs with tense dramatic build up drums while still being mellow, the vocals are a lil constipated, but raining in london is kinda hot and theres breaks all over it. its peddlers with london orc-estra sounds hot
What you're hitting upon is one of the inconsistencies here...record stores will use eBay as a price guide to price records up EASILY...but they won't be as convinced about an LP's declining price. This, of course, sucks sacks of shit.
And this brings us back to the problem with ebay.
If Record X sells for $150 in january b/c of two loonies...then promptly crashes back to $20 for the next year...the record seller using popsike.com is going to see the $150 and conveniently overlook the $20. he MAY be inclined to lower his expectations if his LP has sat on the wall for a year at $120 and no one cares. Then he may realize that the pricing may be uneralistic but for that year, the LP is effectively out of circulation since few would be willing to pay the asking price.
Anyways, I'm not answering your question: personally, I routinely use eBay as a gauge for what I should pay for a record in a physical store vs. online. Which means I'm probably falling for the same traps I describe here but goddamn, ti's so easy!
...but it is. I don't need to tell you that record sellers regularly use eBay (and popsike.com for that matter) as a rule for how they should price their records. And I agree, they're not taking into account the fact that two psycho bidders do not a price rule make but nonetheless, if they see X LP sell for $150, they'll assume that if they have X LP in their store, it should also be around that high.
Yes, it's true that two nutjobs can together grossly inflate the price of a record. But what about when a record has consistently closed within a $20 window over an 18 month period? Are you as inclined to dismiss that?
I agree that bricks and mortar stores seeking to sell records should not use eBay as a price guide.
But I don't agree that people seeking to buy a record should ignore eBay when determining how much they want to pay for it.
100? i got mine last year for $44 on ebay...really im happy i only paid that much...the breaks are some of the best out there, but i only really really like about 4 tracks off of here...
Comments
"That is soooooo cool man"[/b]
then i think you really need Rubaiyat
No, perhaps the nuance was lost on you but I am talking about "value" versus "price". Like lots of commodities, things are overvalued and undervalued all the time. I would actually suggest to Drewn that he buy; I think that record is underpriced online right now.
But ebay is an online marketplace where prices are determined by people all over the world who are on the internet at that moment and takes into account completely different value systems, depending on who you are: for instance Reynaldo has been paying over what records are "worth" recently. The fact that he's willing to shell out for these records doesn't change their value. There are high school kids with parents' credit cards willing to shell out tons of money for a record that they absolutely need but would you trust a 15 year old to price a record? The Japanese, French, Germans, British, etc all determine what their price is for a record on ebay, but that doesn't make it accurate.
I mean, you are arguing for the lower price either way; if it's too high you will say that it's just a $___ record, ebay is inflating it. But if it's cheaper on ebay, then you will argue that the actual value has fallen. I'm not mad at it, but that's a self-serving argument with no consistency. There's a lot more to pricing a record than what it went for on popsike, gemm, or ebay in the last 12 months.
That said, I don't really blow $100 on a record on ebay too much anymore. Too many bad experiences. So that's certainly influencing my thoughts on it.
I recently had a similar convo to this with Cool Chris, Jinx and one of Hungary's Crate Soul Brothers and what we all agreed upon is that:
ebay should NOT be a price guide...
...but it is. I don't need to tell you that record sellers regularly use eBay (and popsike.com for that matter) as a rule for how they should price their records. And I agree, they're not taking into account the fact that two psycho bidders do not a price rule make but nonetheless, if they see X LP sell for $150, they'll assume that if they have X LP in their store, it should also be around that high.
Once you have enough sellers sign on with that mentality, a new price has effectively been set in the marketplace, artificially or not.
roy ayers-coffy soundtrack
roy ayers-he's coming
roy ayers-ubiquity (all under a hundred though)
string beat
jo ann garrett-just a taste
weldon irvine-sinbad (way under a hundred but still pretty solid)
la planete sauvage soundtrack
silhouettes-conversation with (although this one has been peaking over 100 lately)
ray tabs trio (not everyones taste though but i like it)
vibrettes-humpty dump 45
marva whitney-it's my thing
dave
string beat
weldon irvine-sinbad (way under a hundred but still pretty solid)
Agreed!
It blows my mind that Ayres' early Polydor LPs go for $100+ but I guess I was lucky in finding all of them for far, far less. I think Ayers' LPs are more likely to end up underpriced though b/c a lot of sellers not in the know just assume that there's no diff b/t "He's Coming" and "Vibrations"
How do any of these factors not pertain to real world record stores, though? You're telling me that clueless rich kids don't spend their parents' money at Sound Library? That French and German guys don't come to New York and go on record buying sprees? Ebay's far from a perfect market but it's a much better approximation of one than the random sampling of customers that happen to wander through a particular record store's doors; it connects people trying to unload a record with more potential buyers than any other medium.
Well, that would be a self-serving argument. But it's not my argument.
No, me neither. I hear what you are saying, but I still think most of it pertains more to how the knowledgable buyer conducts himself than it does to the market as a whole, which consists of more ignorant buyers than knowledgable ones.
hells belles
lyman woodword organization
hair and thangs
peddlers suite london (prolly a lil under a bill, but i love it)
t.o.b.e. (yes, it a one tracker, but oh my)
del jones
s.o.u.l. - what it is
lafayette afro rock band - malik (anyone got one for me for a bill??)
johnnny pringles, cease with all yor damn nuance price talk. who your geoorge soros of the frickin sooulstrutt universe and shit??? come down to philly and ill arm restle you for a yingling yo o scmendrick.
heh,medpills plaese
and i weigh in for rubiyat as the best of the trio
Yes, it's true that two nutjobs can together grossly inflate the price of a record. But what about when a record has consistently closed within a $20 window over an 18 month period? Are you as inclined to dismiss that?
I agree that bricks and mortar stores seeking to sell records should not use eBay as a price guide.
But I don't agree that people seeking to buy a record should ignore eBay when determining how much they want to pay for it.
Another good example is hip-hop 12"s which are now rock bottom on ebay but for a store are not. Disco 12"s that were $250 last year and now are $75 online. I mean, the list goes on and on and you are right, it's influenced by fickle buyers who don't really know shit - which is why i don't think it's a good price guide. You know what my response is when someone tells me, "man I can get that for $__ on ebay"? Do that shit! I hear more complaints at this point about that stuff than endorsements.
I do think that you'd argue for cheaper prices regardless, but that's not proven here
Edit: this discussion started with you declaring the price on Rubaiyat to be, unequivocally, under $100. I don't know of a store that would sell it that cheap unless they didn't know what it was.
TONY! I am fucking Kudlow and Cramer of this record shit! Step off when I come to Philly with my stocks and bonds!
gloria scott- what am i gonna do
donna mcghee- make it last forever.
dave
I'll take one for $100
no it's not...it constantly hovers around $75 to $100
No, it started with Drewn saying he'd be happy to pay $100 for it and you informing him that he'd still fall $50 short.
good luck finding one for a hundred.
dave (i mean, t from philly)
This is true, and I later added that this is a great time to buy it. As said before, I don't base my prices on ebay.
$15 brethren!!!!
haha, but that was 7 years ago
can you tell me a bit about these Dave? I know either know about or have the other ones you mentioned
i dont know roy tabbs,
but silhouettes, well worth it
fonky first is one of the illest ever, and hashibaba is dope
joanngarret, noway (IMHO jonbrocli!)
its cool chess female vocal soulful not funky enuff for me
pop asanovic, thats a great price.
its from some eastern european country (yugoslavia?) and he does a unattributed jamesbrown cover and the reord is pretty dope and he looks like shaggy scrappy doo on the keyborrd.
peddlers suite london (prolly a lil under a bill, but i love it)
what's the dilly with this one? I have about 3 of their other lp's but they ain't rilly poppin for me----this one has some nice breaks right?
del jones----what's the dilly with this?
suite london has classical songs with poppin drums, its got really brooding mellow songs with tense dramatic build up drums while still being mellow, the vocals are a lil constipated, but raining in london is kinda hot and theres breaks all over it. its peddlers with london orc-estra
suite london has classical songs with poppin drums, its got really brooding mellow songs with tense dramatic build up drums while still being mellow, the vocals are a lil constipated, but raining in london is kinda hot and theres breaks all over it. its peddlers with london orc-estra
sounds hot
What you're hitting upon is one of the inconsistencies here...record stores will use eBay as a price guide to price records up EASILY...but they won't be as convinced about an LP's declining price. This, of course, sucks sacks of shit.
And this brings us back to the problem with ebay.
If Record X sells for $150 in january b/c of two loonies...then promptly crashes back to $20 for the next year...the record seller using popsike.com is going to see the $150 and conveniently overlook the $20. he MAY be inclined to lower his expectations if his LP has sat on the wall for a year at $120 and no one cares. Then he may realize that the pricing may be uneralistic but for that year, the LP is effectively out of circulation since few would be willing to pay the asking price.
Anyways, I'm not answering your question: personally, I routinely use eBay as a gauge for what I should pay for a record in a physical store vs. online. Which means I'm probably falling for the same traps I describe here but goddamn, ti's so easy!
100? i got mine last year for $44 on ebay...really im happy i only paid that much...the breaks are some of the best out there, but i only really really like about 4 tracks off of here...
A friend of mine bought this today for $40 in A*a*e*y in Wburg. Layaway as well! Slight ringwear on the cover.