I figured it was supposed to be a joke, it's just not very funny.
I'm sorry about that. I'll keep them for myself from now on, I just feel it's okey to tell a small one as long as you know there's no harm behind it. For me that's the difference between friendship and not, like I talk about bananas and jungles when my foreign friends do something stupid, and they call me the robot when I'm in a bad mood and act like a typical cold and numb Norwegian showing no feeling, but I guess I don't know you guys on this board that well, and you don't know me, so no more jokes for me. And it wasn't the right thread for jokes, either, so you are right on this one. My bad.
Whoa, I see the discussion is still ongoing. Been away from the computer for days. Damn, I'm getting weary of this whole thing. Everywhere I go it's the #1 topic. We just had a big family gathering this weekend (my girlfriend's birthday), and of course the conversation soon turned into a big discussion on muslims and freedom of speech.
If you do not know why the Danish press printed those cartoons please go back and read Dejean's posts.
Dan
while his post was long and emotional it is opinion, his opinion, not fact, don't treat as if it is
Absolutely true. This is just my opinion and I strongly encourage everyone who has any level of interest in the matter to seek out different sources of information.
There was also a few details that I forgot along the way that Generique and Flomotion have thankfully added: the original reason for the newspaper feature (the children's book), and the fact that the imams from Islamisk Trossamfund who were touring the middle east in november are a bunch of slandering instigators misrepresenting the people they claim to speak on behalf of. They are very much to blame for a major part of this mess.
I just want to round up my thoughts to clear up any misconceptions on where I stand. I hate zealots, I love the right to speak freely. I also love when people use their heads. The main point I was trying to get across was this: I want the debate here and everywhere else with related tensions in society to move on from a duplex tirade to something that could be called an actual dialogue. This goes for all parties. I also want us to take a more proactive approach to solving the problems that are creating a breeding ground for extremism. Constantly ripping a hole with one hand and patching it up with the other is just not an intelligent strategy.
Yes, I am emotional about this. Things have been converging for a number of years, to sometimes explosive effect, as we all know. Time is a luxury. Stepping up our game is necessary.
OK, enough politricks for me for now. I need some stability in my mind garden. Back to record porn, tepid folk terds, and endless discussions about Project Blowed.
wow, this post is still going? Is this going to on a longest thread of all time status? Out of curiosity, what thead has that dubious honor of being longest thread of all time? Anyone remember?
thought it was nates overhyped private press
I noticed a strange thing before logging in just now. When I wasn't logged in, the threads had more than double the number of pages compared to after I logged in. This thread was displayed as being close to twenty-something pages! I thought WTF, logged in, and all of a sudden it was just ten pages. Maybe it's always been like that, I just never noticed that before.
wow, this post is still going? Is this going to on a longest thread of all time status? Out of curiosity, what thead has that dubious honor of being longest thread of all time? Anyone remember?
thought it was nates overhyped private press
I noticed a strange thing before logging in just now. When I wasn't logged in, the threads had more than double the number of pages compared to after I logged in. This thread was displayed as being close to twenty-something pages! I thought WTF, logged in, and all of a sudden it was just ten pages. Maybe it's always been like that, I just never noticed that before.
wow, this post is still going? Is this going to on a longest thread of all time status? Out of curiosity, what thead has that dubious honor of being longest thread of all time? Anyone remember?
thought it was nates overhyped private press
I noticed a strange thing before logging in just now. When I wasn't logged in, the threads had more than double the number of pages compared to after I logged in. This thread was displayed as being close to twenty-something pages! I thought WTF, logged in, and all of a sudden it was just ten pages. Maybe it's always been like that, I just never noticed that before.
it did this for me as well, strange, did it a couple days ago
i hope you didn't think i was calling you too emotional, your post was great, its just around here emotions have the tendency of being seen as truth or fact
i hope you didn't think i was calling you too emotional, your post was great, its just around here emotions have the tendency of being seen as truth or fact
Not at all. Reading different experiences and insights is always interesting to me. Sometimes it makes even makes me rethink my views.
But it does go to prove a point. You may have the freedom to publish whatever you want, but are you being responsible in putting whatever it is you are putting out there?
BTW why have the Jews even been brought in this? is the PM of Denmark Jewish, is anyone high up at the paper meshapchah?
I'm guessing no. But what do I know I secretly run the world bank
I agree with the above post, though, pointing out that the media is narrowing the focus to the most sensationalist aspects and events pertaining to the issue.
Here's my ill-informed, over-simplified take:
If I insult a dude on the street by calling his mother a whore, I should be prepared to defend myself... physically.
If I'm dining out and happen to see an Italian mafia family dining at the next table, and for some inexplicable reason tell them that all their mothers are whores, I should be prepared to defend my entire family... physically.
Now, in case anyone wants to jump to conclusions (yeah, right, who does that here?) let me clarify -- I AM NOT COMPARING MUSLIMS TO MOBSTERS (or dudes on the street)! I am just pointing out that when you seek to offend people, you'd better be prepared to take the fallout. That doesn't mean I'm defending the muslims who are choosing to react to the cartoons with violence, but I'm saying you reap what you sow.
As for defending free speech... I would think that those who value free speech most highly would be the last to want to flaunt it.
That's the point. There is no Jewish connection. And yet the people encouraging these "holocaust" cartoons see anti-semitism as the obvious repsonse to a blasphemy against islam. It's as absurd as it is telling.
I agree with the above post, though, pointing out that the media is narrowing the focus to the most sensationalist aspects and events pertaining to the issue.
Here's my ill-informed, over-simplified take:
If I insult a dude on the street by calling his mother a whore, I should be prepared to defend myself... physically.
If I'm dining out and happen to see an Italian mafia family dining at the next table, and for some inexplicable reason tell them that all their mothers are whores, I should be prepared to defend my entire family... physically.
Now, in case anyone wants to jump to conclusions (yeah, right, who does that here?) let me clarify -- I AM NOT COMPARING MUSLIMS TO MOBSTERS (or dudes on the street)! I am just pointing out that when you seek to offend people, you'd better be prepared to take the fallout. That doesn't mean I'm defending the muslims who are choosing to react to the cartoons with violence, but I'm saying you reap what you sow.
As for defending free speech... I would think that those who value free speech most highly would be the last to want to flaunt it.
Oh Lawd...
So.. If I call your mother a whore, then anyone in my house should watch their back? Or for that matter, my neighbours? Thats some bullshit... It's like they don't care who did what. Just search out whoever and burn down the house.
Let me get something straight. I'm not pointing my fingers at anyone besides people that are using violence.
So.. If I call your mother a whore, then anyone in my house should watch their back? Or for that matter, my neighbours? Thats some bullshit...
See, this is why these threads are generally a waste of time. Too many dudes skim posts and don't bother to comprehend what they're reading. Your summary of my post reflects absolutely no part of my intended statement.
So.. If I call your mother a whore, then anyone in my house should watch their back? Or for that matter, my neighbours? Thats some bullshit...
See, this is why these threads are generally a waste of time. Too many dudes skim posts and don't bother to comprehend what they're reading. Your summary of my post reflects absolutely no part of my intended statement.
Read ----> Comprehend ----> Post.
In. That. Order.
I understand.. I'm just posting from your point of
"I am just pointing out that when you seek to offend people, you'd better be prepared to take the fallout."
I did read your post and I totally get that your trying to be somewhere in the middle.
Side note: Great quote from Professor Akbar Ahmed
"In a sense you 're seeing an irresistible force, the Muslims, and an immovable object, that is the principle of freedom of expression in the West. And these two are clashing. You saw it earlier with the Salman Rushdie crisis when he wrote the "Satanic Verses" over a decade ago and you had the reaction by the Muslims,??? said the professor. ???And in a sense you're seeing a resonance and echo of the same kind of crisis where two cultures, as it were, are in conflict and clash. And in some sense not understanding the sensitivities of each other. Muslims need to be much more sensitive to how the West functions. And the West must understand how Muslims responds to religiosity to the Devine and to theology itself."
I understand.. I'm just posting from your point of
"I am just pointing out that when you seek to offend people, you'd better be prepared to take the fallout."
I used the example of the Italian Mafia because they are (admittedly stereotypically) known for retaliating against entire families for individual offenses. I'm not saying one should assume all Muslims should be viewed in the same manner, but if the Rushdie fatwa was any indicator, it should be obvious that they take their religion extremely seriously.
Obviously applying the same point to me isn't going to work. I'm not widely known for being offended by insults directed at my mother.
I did read your post and I totally get that your trying to be somewhere in the middle.
I'm not at all trying to be in the middle. As I said, I don't condone the extreme violent reactions and threats, but I am far more sympathetic to the offended Muslims than I am to some snarky, racist cartoonist.
Actually, I'm not sure what the point of that cartoon is.
I thnk your lying. Typical Jew not willing to accept blame for what you do. Well ok, if you want to play dumb I'll go ahead and s-p-e-l-l it out for you
1. Jews run the media 2. Jews run scandanavia 3. Jews hate Muhammad 4. Jews love to draw cartoons 5. Jews love to reprint cartoons from their Jew papers in other countries Jew papers
not like you dind't know these basic truths. I've given you notes from the last 3 illuminati meetings you missed.
We'll talk later I got to go find the corpse of Prescott Bush and do some moder ppraying
The "bonus cartoons" that were showed in the middle east by a Danish delegation were mentioned here earlier. I read this article on the background of one of them. Finally something to laugh about in this whole affair: [/b]
*** NEANDERNEWS EXCLUSIVE ***
"Do these two photos look similiar?
They should because they are the same! No, not a satire of Mohammed nor any other sacred Islamic figure but a photo of Jacques Barrot, a pig squealing contestant at the French Pig-Squealing Championships in Trie-sur-Baise???s annual festival. NeanderNews discovered this photo, taken by Bob Edme of AP, posted on an August 15, 2005 AP story seen here on MSNBC???s website. As Gateway Pundit, Counter Terrorism Blog and others have reported Danish Imam Ahmad Abu Ladan, leader of The Islamic Society of Denmark, toured the middle east to create awareness of supposed anti-Islamic cartoons and included the above black and white photo as well as two other undocumented examples. Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the tour, explained that the three drawings had been added to ???give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims.??? Akkari claimed he does not know the origin of the three pictures. He said they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. However, when Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet asked if it could talk to these Muslims, Akkari refused to reveal their identity. BBC World aired a story on 1-30-2006 showing the three non-published images and claimed they had been published in Denmarks Jyllands-Posten, these images however had never been published in Jyllands-Posten. NeanderNews wonders if Jacques knows what he has started? A big kudos to ???The Celtic Semite??? for this great lead."
So this is a major blunder for the BBC I guess? In their own words:[/b]
"The propaganda factor - the "pig" picture
One aspect that these governments might also want to examine is how they can counter false information. Twelve cartoons were originally published by Jyllands-Posten. None showed the Prophet with the face of a pig. Yet such a portrayal has circulated in the Middle East (The BBC was caught out and for a time showed film of this in Gaza without realizing it was not one of the 12).[/b] This picture, a fuzzy grey photocopy, can now be traced back (suspicion having been confirmed by an admission) to a delegation of Danish Muslim leaders who went to the Middle East in November to publicise the cartoons. The visit was organised by Abu Laban, a leading Muslim figure in Denmark. According to the Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, the delegation took along a pamphlet showing the 12 drawings. But the delegation also showed a number of other pictures, including the "pig" one. The delegation claimed they were the sort of insults that Muslims in Denmark had to endure. These also got into circulation. (Update: A reader has e-mailed to say that the original of the "pig" picture was from a "pig-squealing" competition held in France every summer. Some character dressed up like a pig. See the link to the neandernews.com site on the right for the details. Ekstra Bladet has also published a letter taken by the delegation on its mission. This gives the delegation's account of how the cartoons originated and what the reaction to them was. But it also mentions other pictures, which it said were "much more offending." These presumably included the "pig" picture, whose origin is now known.) Western diplomats appear to have missed this entirely and seem to have made no attempt to counter some of the arguments in the pamphlet or to distinguish between the various portrayals. It might not have made much difference but it shows how rapidly propaganda can add to fuel to the fire."
Comments
I'm sorry about that. I'll keep them for myself from now on, I just feel it's okey to tell a small one as long as you know there's no harm behind it. For me that's the difference between friendship and not, like I talk about bananas and jungles when my foreign friends do something stupid, and they call me the robot when I'm in a bad mood and act like a typical cold and numb Norwegian showing no feeling, but I guess I don't know you guys on this board that well, and you don't know me, so no more jokes for me. And it wasn't the right thread for jokes, either, so you are right on this one. My bad.
Absolutely true. This is just my opinion and I strongly encourage everyone who has any level of interest in the matter to seek out different sources of information.
There was also a few details that I forgot along the way that Generique and Flomotion have thankfully added: the original reason for the newspaper feature (the children's book), and the fact that the imams from Islamisk Trossamfund who were touring the middle east in november are a bunch of slandering instigators misrepresenting the people they claim to speak on behalf of. They are very much to blame for a major part of this mess.
I just want to round up my thoughts to clear up any misconceptions on where I stand. I hate zealots, I love the right to speak freely. I also love when people use their heads. The main point I was trying to get across was this: I want the debate here and everywhere else with related tensions in society to move on from a duplex tirade to something that could be called an actual dialogue. This goes for all parties. I also want us to take a more proactive approach to solving the problems that are creating a breeding ground for extremism. Constantly ripping a hole with one hand and patching it up with the other is just not an intelligent strategy.
Yes, I am emotional about this. Things have been converging for a number of years, to sometimes explosive effect, as we all know. Time is a luxury. Stepping up our game is necessary.
OK, enough politricks for me for now. I need some stability in my mind garden. Back to record porn, tepid folk terds, and endless discussions about Project Blowed.
I noticed a strange thing before logging in just now. When I wasn't logged in, the threads had more than double the number of pages compared to after I logged in. This thread was displayed as being close to twenty-something pages! I thought WTF, logged in, and all of a sudden it was just ten pages. Maybe it's always been like that, I just never noticed that before.
errr, no, this is in fact page 27.
it did this for me as well, strange, did it a couple days ago
i hope you didn't think i was calling you too emotional, your post was great, its just around here emotions have the tendency of being seen as truth or fact
Not at all. Reading different experiences and insights is always interesting to me. Sometimes it makes even makes me rethink my views.
But it does go to prove a point. You may have the freedom to publish whatever you want, but are you being responsible in putting whatever it is you are putting out there?
BTW why have the Jews even been brought in this? is the PM of Denmark Jewish, is anyone high up at the paper meshapchah?
I'm guessing no. But what do I know I secretly run the world bank
I agree with the above post, though, pointing out that the media is narrowing the focus to the most sensationalist aspects and events pertaining to the issue.
Here's my ill-informed, over-simplified take:
If I insult a dude on the street by calling his mother a whore, I should be prepared to defend myself... physically.
If I'm dining out and happen to see an Italian mafia family dining at the next table, and for some inexplicable reason tell them that all their mothers are whores, I should be prepared to defend my entire family... physically.
Now, in case anyone wants to jump to conclusions (yeah, right, who does that here?) let me clarify -- I AM NOT COMPARING MUSLIMS TO MOBSTERS (or dudes on the street)! I am just pointing out that when you seek to offend people, you'd better be prepared to take the fallout. That doesn't mean I'm defending the muslims who are choosing to react to the cartoons with violence, but I'm saying you reap what you sow.
As for defending free speech... I would think that those who value free speech most highly would be the last to want to flaunt it.
That's the point. There is no Jewish connection. And yet the people encouraging these "holocaust" cartoons see anti-semitism as the obvious repsonse to a blasphemy against islam. It's as absurd as it is telling.
Insult my mother all day if you want, I still wont assault you. That's because I'm a reasonable person who recognises that violence solves little.
Oh Lawd...
So.. If I call your mother a whore, then anyone in my house should watch their back? Or for that matter, my neighbours? Thats some bullshit... It's like they don't care who did what. Just search out whoever and burn down the house.
Let me get something straight. I'm not pointing my fingers at anyone besides people that are using violence.
See, this is why these threads are generally a waste of time. Too many dudes skim posts and don't bother to comprehend what they're reading. Your summary of my post reflects absolutely no part of my intended statement.
Read ----> Comprehend ----> Post.
In. That. Order.
I understand.. I'm just posting from your point of
"I am just pointing out that when you seek to offend people, you'd better be prepared to take the fallout."
I did read your post and I totally get that your trying to be somewhere in the middle.
Side note: Great quote from Professor Akbar Ahmed
"In a sense you 're seeing an irresistible force, the Muslims, and an immovable object, that is the principle of freedom of expression in the West. And these two are clashing. You saw it earlier with the Salman Rushdie crisis when he wrote the "Satanic Verses" over a decade ago and you had the reaction by the Muslims,??? said the professor. ???And in a sense you're seeing a resonance and echo of the same kind of crisis where two cultures, as it were, are in conflict and clash. And in some sense not understanding the sensitivities of each other. Muslims need to be much more sensitive to how the West functions. And the West must understand how Muslims responds to religiosity to the Devine and to theology itself."
I used the example of the Italian Mafia because they are (admittedly stereotypically) known for retaliating against entire families for individual offenses. I'm not saying one should assume all Muslims should be viewed in the same manner, but if the Rushdie fatwa was any indicator, it should be obvious that they take their religion extremely seriously.
Obviously applying the same point to me isn't going to work. I'm not widely known for being offended by insults directed at my mother.
I'm not at all trying to be in the middle. As I said, I don't condone the extreme violent reactions and threats, but I am far more sympathetic to the offended Muslims than I am to some snarky, racist cartoonist.
Well Put
Next Level
pix jaw up from floor
*** NEANDERNEWS EXCLUSIVE ***
"Do these two photos look similiar?
They should because they are the same! No, not a satire of Mohammed nor any other sacred Islamic figure but a photo of Jacques Barrot, a pig squealing contestant at the French Pig-Squealing Championships in Trie-sur-Baise???s annual festival. NeanderNews discovered this photo, taken by Bob Edme of AP, posted on an August 15, 2005 AP story seen here on MSNBC???s website.
As Gateway Pundit, Counter Terrorism Blog and others have reported Danish Imam Ahmad Abu Ladan, leader of The Islamic Society of Denmark, toured the middle east to create awareness of supposed anti-Islamic cartoons and included the above black and white photo as well as two other undocumented examples. Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the tour, explained that the three drawings had been added to ???give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims.???
Akkari claimed he does not know the origin of the three pictures. He said they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. However, when Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet asked if it could talk to these Muslims, Akkari refused to reveal their identity. BBC World aired a story on 1-30-2006 showing the three non-published images and claimed they had been published in Denmarks Jyllands-Posten, these images however had never been published in Jyllands-Posten.
NeanderNews wonders if Jacques knows what he has started? A big kudos to ???The Celtic Semite??? for this great lead."
www.neandernews.com
So this is a major blunder for the BBC I guess? In their own words:[/b]
"The propaganda factor - the "pig" picture
One aspect that these governments might also want to examine is how they can counter false information.
Twelve cartoons were originally published by Jyllands-Posten. None showed the Prophet with the face of a pig. Yet such a portrayal has circulated in the Middle East (The BBC was caught out and for a time showed film of this in Gaza without realizing it was not one of the 12).[/b]
This picture, a fuzzy grey photocopy, can now be traced back (suspicion having been confirmed by an admission) to a delegation of Danish Muslim leaders who went to the Middle East in November to publicise the cartoons. The visit was organised by Abu Laban, a leading Muslim figure in Denmark.
According to the Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, the delegation took along a pamphlet showing the 12 drawings. But the delegation also showed a number of other pictures, including the "pig" one. The delegation claimed they were the sort of insults that Muslims in Denmark had to endure. These also got into circulation.
(Update: A reader has e-mailed to say that the original of the "pig" picture was from a "pig-squealing" competition held in France every summer. Some character dressed up like a pig. See the link to the neandernews.com site on the right for the details.
Ekstra Bladet has also published a letter taken by the delegation on its mission. This gives the delegation's account of how the cartoons originated and what the reaction to them was. But it also mentions other pictures, which it said were "much more offending." These presumably included the "pig" picture, whose origin is now known.)
Western diplomats appear to have missed this entirely and seem to have made no attempt to counter some of the arguments in the pamphlet or to distinguish between the various portrayals.
It might not have made much difference but it shows how rapidly propaganda can add to fuel to the fire."
bbc news