More than 300 students demonstrated in Pakistan, chanting "Death to France!" and "Death to Denmark!" [/b]
I have been told, read, and would like to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.
So can someone explain to me why everytime something happens that they don't like, in this case a cartoon, large groups of Muslims cry out for the death of people??
as Im sure you know the base word of Islam is Salam AKA peace.
those 400 angry protesters do not represent the entire religion.
besides the religion is based on the Koran and other written works, its only when man amnipulates those writings that things like a religion with peace in its name can lose its meaning to some.
I understand completely.....just like the "Death To Fags" nuts don't represent Christianity.
Just seems like awful alot of Muslims do seem to turn to Death as a solution even though the Koran reads otherwise.
Is it really that easy for so many to misinterpret such obvious writings??
I honestly don't see this happening with other religions in this day and age.
Iranian spiritual leader Ayatollah Khomeini calls on Muslims to kill British author Salman Rushdie for alleged blasphemy in his book The Satanic Verses
Nigerian journalist Isioma Daniel's article about Prophet and Miss World contestants sparks deadly riots
Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh killed after release of his documentary about violence against Muslim women
London's Tate Britain museum cancels plans to display sculpture by John Latham for fear of offending Muslims after July bombings
Is there any kind of organization of muslims that speaks up when things like this cartoon business happen? Like an anti-defamation league or B'nai B'rith?
Just seems like awful alot of Muslims do seem to turn to Death as a solution even though the Koran reads otherwise.
An awful lot in an actual percentage or just from shit you read in the news? Post an actual percentage or you're soft.
I am certain it's an incredibly small percentage.
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood after that asshole Pat Robertson called for the death of Hugo Chavez???
I can't, and it obviously didn't happen.
I'm just trying to understand why death becomes some folks solution when there are so many other more civilized ways to deal with things like art or literature that offends them??
I could even understand it if they were protesting physical abuse, damaging economic sanctions, War or any other number of agressive acts....but this is ART!!!
More than 300 students demonstrated in Pakistan, chanting "Death to France!" and "Death to Denmark!" [/b]
I have been told, read, and would like to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.
So can someone explain to me why every time something happens that they don't like, in this case a cartoon, large groups of Muslims cry out for the death of people??
There are 100s of millions of Muslims. I'd say 300 nuts at a rally where some are shouting what has been translated in the Western press as "Death To.." would not be representative of Islam.
I could even understand it if they were protesting physical abuse, damaging economic sanctions, War or any other number of agressive acts....but this is ART!!!
It's more than art to them and until you realize that you will not understand the problem.
I could even understand it if they were protesting physical abuse, damaging economic sanctions, War or any other number of agressive acts....but this is ART!!!
It's more than art to them and until you realize that you will not understand the problem.
I realize it is obviously more than art to them, I just don't understand it.
I'm pretty certain if a small group of Christians took to the streets screaming for the death of the Piss Christ artist, most people, myself included would be saying "Look at those crazy, ignorant Christians".
So is it fair to say these folks are ignorant and crazy too or do we just need to understand them better??
Just seems like awful alot of Muslims do seem to turn to Death as a solution even though the Koran reads otherwise.
An awful lot in an actual percentage or just from shit you read in the news? Post an actual percentage or you're soft.
I am certain it's an incredibly small percentage.
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood after that asshole Pat Robertson called for the death of Hugo Chavez???
I can't, and it obviously didn't happen.
I'm just trying to understand why death becomes some folks solution when there are so many other more civilized ways to deal with things like art or literature that offends them??
I could even understand it if they were protesting physical abuse, damaging economic sanctions, War or any other number of agressive acts....but this is ART!!!
I can imagine thousands of Christians in the streets and screaming for blood. In fact I have seen it. At anti-war rallies right here in Portland Oregon crazed Christians held counter-rallies calling for war and death to Muslims.
Christians - in my country - have not only called for the death of doctors they have gone out and killed them.
I heard George Bush saying that a soldier who had died in Iraq had served his God and country and was now rewarded for his service in heaven. What kind of crazed nut says God rewards people for going out and killing? A Christian nut.
Nazi Germany? Christians.
The Spanish Inquisition? Christians.
The crusades? Christians.
Dropping the atomic bomb on civilian populations? Christians.
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood?
Under a headline "Yes, we have the right to caricature God", the paper ran a front page cartoon with Buddha, the Christian and Jewish[/b] Gods and the Prophet Mohammad sitting on a cloud above Earth, with the Christian God saying: "Don't complain Mohammad, we've all been caricatured here." Full story.
I'd just like to point out that unlike Christians, Jews do not have any physical representations of G-d. The idea of a picture of a Jewish God is strickly a Christian construct.
Just seems like awful alot of Muslims do seem to turn to Death as a solution even though the Koran reads otherwise.
An awful lot in an actual percentage or just from shit you read in the news? Post an actual percentage or you're soft.
I am certain it's an incredibly small percentage.
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood after that asshole Pat Robertson called for the death of Hugo Chavez???
I can't, and it obviously didn't happen.
I'm just trying to understand why death becomes some folks solution when there are so many other more civilized ways to deal with things like art or literature that offends them??
I could even understand it if they were protesting physical abuse, damaging economic sanctions, War or any other number of agressive acts....but this is ART!!!
I can imagine thousands of Christians in the streets and screaming for blood. In fact I have seen it. At anti-war rallies right here in Portland Oregon crazed Christians held counter-rallies calling for war and death to Muslims.
Christians - in my country - have not only called for the death of doctors they have gone out and killed them.
I heard George Bush saying that a soldier who had died in Iraq had served his God and country and was now rewarded for his service in heaven. What kind of crazed nut says God rewards people for going out and killing? A Christian nut.
Nazi Germany? Christians.
The Spanish Inquisition? Christians.
The crusades? Christians.
Dropping the atomic bomb on civilian populations? Christians.
Burning witches at the stake? Christians.
Be careful of the stones you throw.
Dan
First of all throw out your last five examples as I plainly stated "In this day and age".
And while I agree with all of your "Christian Nut" analogies I just don't understand why no one says "Those Muslim Nuts"??
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood?
shall I go on?
Day, Again, these are FUCKING NUT CASES.....we all recognize and admit that.
All I want to hear is that these Muslims who are basically doing the same thing...are FUCKING NUT CASES!!!
And while I agree with all of your "Christian Nut" analogies I just don't understand why no one says "Those Muslim Nuts"??
People usually refer to them as "extremists" and I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with you here that the group of people in question could be considered "extremists."
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood?
shall I go on?
Day, Again, these are FUCKING NUT CASES.....we all recognize and admit that.
All I want to hear is that these Muslims who are basically doing the same thing...are FUCKING NUT CASES!!!
Why are people so hesitant to say this??
Oh, they are. I thought that was understood. What everyone is trying to say is, they do not represent the whole religion and for you and others to basically understand why these nuts (and other Muslims) are upset by the cartoons. That's it.
Throughout this thread two things have been confused: #1, that to say these cartoons are wrong, stupid, or in bad taste does not = calling for someone's death. #2, that it is perfectly alright to be offended by these things without calling for someone's death.
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood?
shall I go on?
Day, Again, these are FUCKING NUT CASES.....we all recognize and admit that.
All I want to hear is that these Muslims who are basically doing the same thing...are FUCKING NUT CASES!!!
Why are people so hesitant to say this??
I'll say it. Muslims calling for death to cartoonist and authors are nut cases. The President of Iran is a nut case. Bin Laden is a nut case. Their followers are nut cases.
And while I agree with all of your "Christian Nut" analogies I just don't understand why no one says "Those Muslim Nuts"??
People usually refer to them as "extremists" and I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with you here that the group of people in question could be considered "extremists."
Is extremist the politically correct term for FUCKING NUT CASE??
And isn't the fact that they see these things as something more than art make them FUCKING NUT CASES???
And while I agree with all of your "Christian Nut" analogies I just don't understand why no one says "Those Muslim Nuts"??
People usually refer to them as "extremists" and I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with you here that the group of people in question could be considered "extremists."
Is extremist the politically correct term for FUCKING NUT CASE??
And isn't the fact that they see these things as something more than art make them FUCKING NUT CASES???
On your second point, NO. Look man, to you it's just art, to a devout person it is much more. I am not prepared to blanketly call any devout person a nutcase in absence of other nutcase-like behavior.
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood?
shall I go on?
Day, Again, these are FUCKING NUT CASES.....we all recognize and admit that.
All I want to hear is that these Muslims who are basically doing the same thing...are FUCKING NUT CASES!!!
Why are people so hesitant to say this??
I'll say it. Muslims calling for death to cartoonist and authors are nut cases. The President of Iran is a nut case. Bin Laden is a nut case. Their followers are nut cases.
And while I agree with all of your "Christian Nut" analogies I just don't understand why no one says "Those Muslim Nuts"??
People usually refer to them as "extremists" and I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with you here that the group of people in question could be considered "extremists."
Is extremist the politically correct term for FUCKING NUT CASE??
And isn't the fact that they see these things as something more than art make them FUCKING NUT CASES???
On your second point, NO. Look man, to you it's just art, to a devout person it is much more. I am not prepared to blanketly call any devout person a nutcase in absence of other nutcase-like behavior.
Just seems like awful alot of Muslims do seem to turn to Death as a solution even though the Koran reads otherwise.
An awful lot in an actual percentage or just from shit you read in the news? Post an actual percentage or you're soft.
I am certain it's an incredibly small percentage.
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood after that asshole Pat Robertson called for the death of Hugo Chavez???
I can't, and it obviously didn't happen.
I'm just trying to understand why death becomes some folks solution when there are so many other more civilized ways to deal with things like art or literature that offends them??
I could even understand it if they were protesting physical abuse, damaging economic sanctions, War or any other number of agressive acts....but this is ART!!!
I can imagine thousands of Christians in the streets and screaming for blood. In fact I have seen it. At anti-war rallies right here in Portland Oregon crazed Christians held counter-rallies calling for war and death to Muslims.
Christians - in my country - have not only called for the death of doctors they have gone out and killed them.
I heard George Bush saying that a soldier who had died in Iraq had served his God and country and was now rewarded for his service in heaven. What kind of crazed nut says God rewards people for going out and killing? A Christian nut.
Nazi Germany? Christians.
The Spanish Inquisition? Christians.
The crusades? Christians.
Dropping the atomic bomb on civilian populations? Christians.
Burning witches at the stake? Christians.
Be careful of the stones you throw.
Dan
First of all throw out your last five examples as I plainly stated "In this day and age".
And while I agree with all of your "Christian Nut" analogies I just don't understand why no one says "Those Muslim Nuts"??
I'll keep WWII as part of this day and age. But I will accept Guzzos claim that the atomic bomb belongs to America. Of course we all know that America is LARGLY a Christian nation.
And while I agree with all of your "Christian Nut" analogies I just don't understand why no one says "Those Muslim Nuts"??
People usually refer to them as "extremists" and I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with you here that the group of people in question could be considered "extremists."
Is extremist the politically correct term for FUCKING NUT CASE??
And isn't the fact that they see these things as something more than art make them FUCKING NUT CASES???
On your second point, NO. Look man, to you it's just art, to a devout person it is much more. I am not prepared to blanketly call any devout person a nutcase in absence of other nutcase-like behavior.
Why is this so hard to understand?
I guess because there are devout people in EVERY religion, and there is art that offends the sensibilities of devout people of EVERY religion. Yet no one took this stance when Museums in NYC displayed art that would offend the most devout Christians and there was no violence as a result.
I am 6 pages late to this thread. I thought someone had run a link to the story about some nut jobs calling for death to that cartoonist. I thought people would say "what nut jobs" (or extremists if you pefer). and that would be the end of it.
I guess because there are devout people in EVERY religion, and there is art that offends the sensibilities of devout people of EVERY religion. Yet no one took this stance when Museums in NYC displayed art that would offend the most devout Christians and there was no violence as a result.
I'm not so sure that the offending artists and museums have not faced threats of violence. I know that many museums are afraid to show controversial art and many shows have been canceled because of protests or threats from Christians.
I am 6 pages late to this thread. I thought someone had run a link to the story about some nut jobs calling for death to that cartoonist. I thought people would say "what nut jobs" (or extremists if you pefer). and that would be the end of it.
Clearly I've been missing out on a lot of fun.
Nope....that was one line of thought, but the other side of the argument feels that these folks are justified in being as upset as they are and it's us that need to understand them better.....there are definitely nut job apologists here.
I guess because there are devout people in EVERY religion, and there is art that offends the sensibilities of devout people of EVERY religion. Yet no one took this stance when Museums in NYC displayed art that would offend the most devout Christians and there was no violence as a result.
I'm not so sure that the offending artists and museums have not faced threats of violence. I know that many museums are afraid to show controversial art and many shows have been canceled because of protests or threats from Christians.
Dan
The only protests I know of along these lines were based on the fact that the art was being supported by tax payers $$$
By the way here is the reason that Jews, Muslims, Quakers and other old belivers do not allow images of G-d.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
This is ampliphed and emphasized repeatedly in the Bible. How so many Christians missed this I do not know. Perhaps they pick and choose what they want to belive.
Comments
I understand completely.....just like the "Death To Fags" nuts don't represent Christianity.
Just seems like awful alot of Muslims do seem to turn to Death as a solution even though the Koran reads otherwise.
Is it really that easy for so many to misinterpret such obvious writings??
I honestly don't see this happening with other religions in this day and age.
Am I just missing it??
______________________________________________________________________________
Iranian spiritual leader Ayatollah Khomeini calls on Muslims to kill British author Salman Rushdie for alleged blasphemy in his book The Satanic Verses
Nigerian journalist Isioma Daniel's article about Prophet and Miss World contestants sparks deadly riots
Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh killed after release of his documentary about violence against Muslim women
London's Tate Britain museum cancels plans to display sculpture by John Latham for fear of offending Muslims after July bombings
Is there any kind of organization of muslims that speaks up when things like this cartoon business happen? Like an anti-defamation league or B'nai B'rith?
I am certain it's an incredibly small percentage.
I just can't imagine a group of a few 1,000 or even 300 of ANY group or orginization, religious or otherwise, taking to the streets and screaming for the death of anyone.
Can you imagine 300 Christians taking to the streets and screaming for blood after that asshole Pat Robertson called for the death of Hugo Chavez???
I can't, and it obviously didn't happen.
I'm just trying to understand why death becomes some folks solution when there are so many other more civilized ways to deal with things like art or literature that offends them??
I could even understand it if they were protesting physical abuse, damaging economic sanctions, War or any other number of agressive acts....but this is ART!!!
There are 100s of millions of Muslims. I'd say 300 nuts at a rally where some are shouting what has been translated in the Western press as "Death To.." would not be representative of Islam.
Dan
I think the media is quicker to highlight sensational, violent and crazy things before it focuses on peace and happiness.
I realize it is obviously more than art to them, I just don't understand it.
I'm pretty certain if a small group of Christians took to the streets screaming for the death of the Piss Christ artist, most people, myself included would be saying "Look at those crazy, ignorant Christians".
So is it fair to say these folks are ignorant and crazy too or do we just need to understand them better??
I can imagine thousands of Christians in the streets and screaming for blood. In fact I have seen it. At anti-war rallies right here in Portland Oregon crazed Christians held counter-rallies calling for war and death to Muslims.
Christians - in my country - have not only called for the death of doctors they have gone out and killed them.
I heard George Bush saying that a soldier who had died in Iraq had served his God and country and was now rewarded for his service in heaven. What kind of crazed nut says God rewards people for going out and killing? A Christian nut.
Nazi Germany? Christians.
The Spanish Inquisition? Christians.
The crusades? Christians.
Dropping the atomic bomb on civilian populations? Christians.
Burning witches at the stake? Christians.
Be careful of the stones you throw.
Dan
shall I go on?
I'd just like to point out that unlike Christians, Jews do not have any physical representations of G-d. The idea of a picture of a Jewish God is strickly a Christian construct.
Dan
First of all throw out your last five examples as I plainly stated "In this day and age".
And while I agree with all of your "Christian Nut" analogies I just don't understand why no one says "Those Muslim Nuts"??
Day,
Again, these are FUCKING NUT CASES.....we all recognize and admit that.
All I want to hear is that these Muslims who are basically doing the same thing...are FUCKING NUT CASES!!!
Why are people so hesitant to say this??
Oh, they are. I thought that was understood.
What everyone is trying to say is, they do not represent the whole religion and for you and others to basically understand why these nuts (and other Muslims) are upset by the cartoons.
That's it.
not to get too nitpicky but I don't think we can blame a religion on that one
I'll say it. Muslims calling for death to cartoonist and authors are nut cases. The President of Iran is a nut case. Bin Laden is a nut case. Their followers are nut cases.
Dan
Is extremist the politically correct term for FUCKING NUT CASE??
And isn't the fact that they see these things as something more than art make them FUCKING NUT CASES???
On your second point, NO. Look man, to you it's just art, to a devout person it is much more. I am not prepared to blanketly call any devout person a nutcase in absence of other nutcase-like behavior.
You're my hero!!!
Why is this so hard to understand?
I'll keep WWII as part of this day and age. But I will accept Guzzos claim that the atomic bomb belongs to America. Of course we all know that America is LARGLY a Christian nation.
I guess because there are devout people in EVERY religion, and there is art that offends the sensibilities of devout people of EVERY religion. Yet no one took this stance when Museums in NYC displayed art that would offend the most devout Christians and there was no violence as a result.
Clearly I've been missing out on a lot of fun.
I'm not so sure that the offending artists and museums have not faced threats of violence. I know that many museums are afraid to show controversial art and many shows have been canceled because of protests or threats from Christians.
Dan
Nope....that was one line of thought, but the other side of the argument feels that these folks are justified in being as upset as they are and it's us that need to understand them better.....there are definitely nut job apologists here.
The only protests I know of along these lines were based on the fact that the art was being supported by tax payers $$$
This is ampliphed and emphasized repeatedly in the Bible. How so many Christians missed this I do not know. Perhaps they pick and choose what they want to belive.
Dan