To me, it's always been about striking a balance. Problem is, there hasn't been anything close to one for a very looooooooooong time now.
exactly.
This is the truth. The balance is not there anymore.
Oh, jeezus, please not that hackneyed "I'm not a hater--I'm just disappointed by the lack of balance" argument.
Hip-hop is currently more aesthetically diverse--overall, and in terms of what makes it onto the radio--than it has been at any previous point in its history.
What you dudes whining about the "lack of balance" are actually arguing for is in fact an imbalance: you want to see artists that you like represented in a way that is grossly out of proportion to the interest that the listening public has or will ever have in them.
Little Brother's problem is not lack of exposure--their problem is that they make boring music that nobody wants to hear. Doom's problem is not lack of exposure--his problem is that he makes music that is really only attractive to a very specialized audience. Immortal Technique's problem is not that the powers-that-be are threatened by his content--it's that he can't rap competently.
because j-live is not what their audience wants to hear.
In a city of 19 million I thought it wouldn't just be the college radio stations playing J-Live. That's all.
Hell, I do one of 3 radio shows here in Sydney that play non-commercial hip hop. One of them is on our national government broadcaster. 2hrs Monday nights. And we only have 4 mil.
I just get annoyed when I end up arguing with some drunk chick whilst deejaying & telling her that 'no, Ashanti is not hip hop music, I don't have any of that here'.
When you get campaigns from the likes of Universal proclaiming their '5 Stars of Hip Hop' deal. They being Erykah Badu, Ashanti, 50 Cent, Nelly & some other R & B singer, you realise that the whole term has been hijacked & distorted, not by natural progression, but by the hipness of association utilised by the publicists who think the term 'hip hop' is cooler. Then you get these misinformed people who think they have you all sussed & assume they know what i like. Oh so you like that 'Candy Shop' song then?... Arrghh!
I don't give a shit because I'll still listen to what I like, it just makes it harder when being interviewed by media who then try & tell you what they think it is & that I'm the one who has it wrong. Just because their contact with hip hop is a promo CD that lands on their desk evry odd week. Or even the chick who adamantly was trying to convince me that Blu Cantrell was hip hop & that The Beatnuts I was playing was some other kind of music. I ask her 'What the heck do you think this is then?...She shoulder shrugs... Funny stuff.
Is it so bad that I look more forward to Fat Lip's album than Chamillionare's?
Besides I like discussing this stuff. Passes the time...
maybe it's just me but i think where things start to go wrong is when you have roundtable college campus debates / lectures / discussions on the state of rap music in 2005.
i think there's a very very small minority of listeners out there for aritsts like doom, madlib etc etc.. its a niche market...
why people dont understand this is beyond me.
the industry is dominated by POP, always has been... at the same time you've always had a healthy alternative to the mainstream.. right back to the days of hippys and freeform fm radio.. there's always going to be what the mainstream joe blow mom and pop want to hear on the radio and what overeducated dorm dweller 2nd year university poly sci student wants to listen to.
the mainstream obviously has the power of the media but i'd argue that the alternative audience has the power of the internet / college campus.
I think there are probably more books written about hip hop from a keepin it real perspective than from a commercial / mainstream perspective.
obviously the number of bios on tupac alone outweighs everything.. But in terms of hip hop as a musical genre I would wager that the majority of books written are from the perspective of summarising the 4 elements and theorising where it all went wrong.
the second thing to remember is that pop is temporary and always changing... the days when tone loc / rob base / young mc / vanilla ice dominated did not last long.. those cats are all lucky to get minor bit rolls in reality "where are they now" type programs whereas artists like de la, tribe, the roots et al will be able to continue to appeal to their niche market for yeards and years to come.
do you take the slow road or the quick road? there's always been that option.
and additioanly I'd hazard to bet that there would be NO market for alternative hip hop if it wanst for mainstream artists.
i mean 50 might be limited i nhis topics of cash, guns, ho's but the alternative is eqaully limited records about how the rappers AREN'T into cash money and hos.
both are equally boring to me... if anything i find the alternative shit WORSE due to its endless harping and moaning about keeping it real and the phoneynes of mainstream hip hop... what would these guys rap about if it wasnt for the topic of how much they hate mainstream hip hop???
from a musical standpoint its obvious that mainstreasm hip hop has done more to effect growth and develeopment of pop culture. Pop music has been dominated by the sounds of the neptunes and timbaland, lil john et al for a number of years now.. and there is nobody in the underground pushing the creative boudaries of production the way those producers have been. SP1200's and dusty loops are not moving anything in a forward manner, its a RETRO oriented aesthetic, and retro will always be an alternative to the mainstream.
Hip-hop is currently more aesthetically diverse--overall, and in terms of what makes it onto the radio--than it has been at any previous point in its history.
What you dudes whining about the "lack of balance" are actually arguing for is in fact an imbalance: you want to see artists that you like represented in a way that is grossly out of proportion to the interest that the listening public has or will ever have in them.
Hip-hop is currently more aesthetically diverse--overall, and in terms of what makes it onto the radio--than it has been at any previous point in its history.
Just to play devil's advocate here (and further fan the flames), can we get some examples of this diversity on the radio?
My opinion, and I've said this before, is that negative aspects of rap get played up and promoted to:
A. make money
B. further perpetuate and encourage stereotypes
Do you really think all these articles and talk about the state of Hip Hop are from 30-40 something "keep it real-ers", or is there really something more here that the "2005 Keep It Trill Association" doesn't want to acknowledge?
well I haven't peeped the latest latest but I'm down with "What's Up Fatlip", dude is funny. I occasionally like a little humor in my rapping musics.
That's what I'm saying, I've been digging a few of the MP3s that have been floating around for a few years now, especially the one with him over that bluesy track.
I'd much rather hear Fatlip than another 8th-rate gangsta rapper over lazy drum programming and keys
Just to play devil's advocate here (and further fan the flames), can we get some examples of this diversity on the radio?
current hot 97 top 10:
1. Soul Survivor Young Jeezy f/ Akon Def Jam 2. I Should've Cheated Keyshia Cole Interscope 3. There It Go (the Whistle Song) Juelz Santana Def Jam 4. Girl Tonight Twista f/ Tr?? Songz Atlantic 5. Run It Chris Brown f/ Juelz Santana Jive 6. We Be Burnin' Sean Paul Atlantic 7. Lighter's Up Lil Kim Queen Bee/ Atlantic 8. Youths Are So Cold Richie Spice Massive B 9. Stay Fly Three 6 Mafia Sony 10. Golddigger Kanye West Rocafella
current top ten from a certain college radio station, which i still get emails from for some reason 1 CAGE Hell's Winter 2 BLACKALICIOUS The Craft 3 BLACK MARKET MILITIA Black Market Militia 4 ATMOSPHERE You Can't Imagine How Much Fun We're Having 5 BOOM BAP PROJECT Reprogram 6 PUMPKINHEAD Orange Moon Over Brooklyn 7 J-LIVE The Hear After 8 EDAN Beauty And The Beat 9 IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE "Bin Laden" [12-Inch] 10 VAST AIRE AND MIGHTY MI The Best Damn Rap Show
Hip-hop is currently more aesthetically diverse--overall, and in terms of what makes it onto the radio--than it has been at any previous point in its history.
What you dudes whining about the "lack of balance" are actually arguing for is in fact an imbalance: you want to see artists that you like represented in a way that is grossly out of proportion to the interest that the listening public has or will ever have in them.
all that needs to be said.
I would generally agree (though I'm not sure about the diversity thing: I feel like there might be more chairs, but it still feels like fewer rooms are open; that's mostly personal taste, though, so I'm leaving it alone) but I feel like that statement kinda minimizes radio's role as a not-inconsiderable influencer of the "interest [of] the listening public." The "proportion" argument is a thorny one. I mean, folks don't really believe that radio "just gives the people what they want," do they?
And I'm with peacefulrotation: There's nothing wrong with some funny shit.
both are equally boring to me... if anything i find the alternative shit WORSE due to its endless harping and moaning about keeping it real and the phoneynes of mainstream hip hop... what would these guys rap about if it wasnt for the topic of how much they hate mainstream hip hop???
For someone who is endlessly going on about how they don't even like hip hop anyway, you seem to assume a lot about the music.
As for the argument that the only topic that indy/underground hip hop talks about is moaning about keeping it real or whingeing about mainstream stuff. That is a load of bloody codswallop. So what if every once in awhile a track has that lyrical content, do you really believe that the majority do this?. If you did, you'd seriously be clowned for being ignorant. Because it just isn't the case. It's the same statement that is always pulled out from those who don't listen to it. As one of the writers for a magazine dedicated to all this shit that you hate (which we get sent countless records/cds to review), I can categoricaly state that you are so off the mark it isn't even funny. There's a heap of people on this board who's music we've reviewed or even interviewed or will in the future. And it doesn't fit into your neat perception of the music.
And for balance sake I've got one of your records & am not a hip hop snob, so don't even try & pull that card.
Just to play devil's advocate here (and further fan the flames), can we get some examples of this diversity on the radio?
current hot 97 top 10:
1. Soul Survivor Young Jeezy f/ Akon Def Jam 2. I Should've Cheated Keyshia Cole Interscope 3. There It Go (the Whistle Song) Juelz Santana Def Jam 4. Girl Tonight Twista f/ Tr?? Songz Atlantic 5. Run It Chris Brown f/ Juelz Santana Jive 6. We Be Burnin' Sean Paul Atlantic 7. Lighter's Up Lil Kim Queen Bee/ Atlantic 8. Youths Are So Cold Richie Spice Massive B 9. Stay Fly Three 6 Mafia Sony 10. Golddigger Kanye West Rocafella
current top ten from a certain college radio station, which i still get emails from for some reason 1 CAGE Hell's Winter 2 BLACKALICIOUS The Craft 3 BLACK MARKET MILITIA Black Market Militia 4 ATMOSPHERE You Can't Imagine How Much Fun We're Having 5 BOOM BAP PROJECT Reprogram 6 PUMPKINHEAD Orange Moon Over Brooklyn 7 J-LIVE The Hear After 8 EDAN Beauty And The Beat 9 IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE "Bin Laden" [12-Inch] 10 VAST AIRE AND MIGHTY MI The Best Damn Rap Show
Just to play devil's advocate here (and further fan the flames), can we get some examples of this diversity on the radio?
current hot 97 top 10:
1. Soul Survivor Young Jeezy f/ Akon Def Jam 2. I Should've Cheated Keyshia Cole Interscope 3. There It Go (the Whistle Song) Juelz Santana Def Jam 4. Girl Tonight Twista f/ Tr?? Songz Atlantic 5. Run It Chris Brown f/ Juelz Santana Jive 6. We Be Burnin' Sean Paul Atlantic 7. Lighter's Up Lil Kim Queen Bee/ Atlantic 8. Youths Are So Cold Richie Spice Massive B 9. Stay Fly Three 6 Mafia Sony 10. Golddigger Kanye West Rocafella
current top ten from a certain college radio station, which i still get emails from for some reason 1 CAGE Hell's Winter 2 BLACKALICIOUS The Craft 3 BLACK MARKET MILITIA Black Market Militia 4 ATMOSPHERE You Can't Imagine How Much Fun We're Having 5 BOOM BAP PROJECT Reprogram 6 PUMPKINHEAD Orange Moon Over Brooklyn 7 J-LIVE The Hear After 8 EDAN Beauty And The Beat 9 IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE "Bin Laden" [12-Inch] 10 VAST AIRE AND MIGHTY MI The Best Damn Rap Show
Do you really think all these articles and talk about the state of Hip Hop are from 30-40 something "keep it real-ers", or is there really something more here that the "2005 Keep It Trill Association" doesn't want to acknowledge?
Where are you encountering all of these "articles"? In Idiotproof's magazine?
And, no, I don't think a bunch of people whining about the "state of hip-hop" on boards like SoulStrut and Okayplayer is indicative of much of anything.
The last Cham 12" I picked up was pretty lackluster.
Cham's album is gonna be terrible, but still... Fatlip?!
Check the avatar
Just curious, have you heard any of the new Fatlip tracks and didn't like it, or you're just not into his previous work?
To me, Fatlip was one quarter of a rap group that pretty much embodies everything that I loathe about certain aspects of early nineties rap and would prefer to forget.
I did hear that "What's Up Fatlip?" 12" a few years back... which I would also prefer to forget.
And seriously Dubious. Out of all these tracks posted up HERE[/b], point out the songs that adhere to your stereotypes... NONE. I've heard them all & from memory none even remotely speak on what you say they do. It's a good selection of indy stuff that if you gave half a chance you might actually enjoy.
Comments
Oh, jeezus, please not that hackneyed "I'm not a hater--I'm just disappointed by the lack of balance" argument.
Hip-hop is currently more aesthetically diverse--overall, and in terms of what makes it onto the radio--than it has been at any previous point in its history.
What you dudes whining about the "lack of balance" are actually arguing for is in fact an imbalance: you want to see artists that you like represented in a way that is grossly out of proportion to the interest that the listening public has or will ever have in them.
Little Brother's problem is not lack of exposure--their problem is that they make boring music that nobody wants to hear. Doom's problem is not lack of exposure--his problem is that he makes music that is really only attractive to a very specialized audience. Immortal Technique's problem is not that the powers-that-be are threatened by his content--it's that he can't rap competently.
In a city of 19 million I thought it wouldn't just be the college radio stations playing J-Live. That's all.
Hell, I do one of 3 radio shows here in Sydney that play non-commercial hip hop. One of them is on our national government broadcaster. 2hrs Monday nights. And we only have 4 mil.
I just get annoyed when I end up arguing with some drunk chick whilst deejaying & telling her that 'no, Ashanti is not hip hop music, I don't have any of that here'.
When you get campaigns from the likes of Universal proclaiming their '5 Stars of Hip Hop' deal. They being Erykah Badu, Ashanti, 50 Cent, Nelly & some other R & B singer, you realise that the whole term has been hijacked & distorted, not by natural progression, but by the hipness of association utilised by the publicists who think the term 'hip hop' is cooler. Then you get these misinformed people who think they have you all sussed & assume they know what i like. Oh so you like that 'Candy Shop' song then?... Arrghh!
I don't give a shit because I'll still listen to what I like, it just makes it harder when being interviewed by media who then try & tell you what they think it is & that I'm the one who has it wrong. Just because their contact with hip hop is a promo CD that lands on their desk evry odd week. Or even the chick who adamantly was trying to convince me that Blu Cantrell was hip hop & that The Beatnuts I was playing was some other kind of music. I ask her 'What the heck do you think this is then?...She shoulder shrugs... Funny stuff.
Is it so bad that I look more forward to Fat Lip's album than Chamillionare's?
Besides I like discussing this stuff. Passes the time...
This actually is borderline criminal.
I mean, not that anybody that's been listening to Cham for a few years is actually looking forward to this album, either, but still... Fatlip?!
j-live is not what their [hot 97's] audience wants to hear.[/b]
i think there's a very very small minority of listeners out there for aritsts like doom, madlib etc etc.. its a niche market...
why people dont understand this is beyond me.
the industry is dominated by POP, always has been... at the same time you've always had a healthy alternative to the mainstream.. right back to the days of hippys and freeform fm radio.. there's always going to be what the mainstream joe blow mom and pop want to hear on the radio and what overeducated dorm dweller 2nd year university poly sci student wants to listen to.
the mainstream obviously has the power of the media but i'd argue that the alternative audience has the power of the internet / college campus.
I think there are probably more books written about hip hop from a keepin it real perspective than from a commercial / mainstream perspective.
obviously the number of bios on tupac alone outweighs everything.. But in terms of hip hop as a musical genre I would wager that the majority of books written are from the perspective of summarising the 4 elements and theorising where it all went wrong.
the second thing to remember is that pop is temporary and always changing... the days when tone loc / rob base / young mc / vanilla ice dominated did not last long.. those cats are all lucky to get minor bit rolls in reality "where are they now" type programs whereas artists like de la, tribe, the roots et al will be able to continue to appeal to their niche market for yeards and years to come.
do you take the slow road or the quick road? there's always been that option.
and additioanly I'd hazard to bet that there would be NO market for alternative hip hop if it wanst for mainstream artists.
i mean 50 might be limited i nhis topics of cash, guns, ho's but the alternative is eqaully limited records about how the rappers AREN'T into cash money and hos.
both are equally boring to me... if anything i find the alternative shit WORSE due to its endless harping and moaning about keeping it real and the phoneynes of mainstream hip hop... what would these guys rap about if it wasnt for the topic of how much they hate mainstream hip hop???
from a musical standpoint its obvious that mainstreasm hip hop has done more to effect growth and develeopment of pop culture. Pop music has been dominated by the sounds of the neptunes and timbaland, lil john et al for a number of years now.. and there is nobody in the underground pushing the creative boudaries of production the way those producers have been. SP1200's and dusty loops are not moving anything in a forward manner, its a RETRO oriented aesthetic, and retro will always be an alternative to the mainstream.
I do it, and every once in a while get away with it
That is absurd!
The last Cham 12" I picked up was pretty lackluster.
This revelation hurtz me...
Cham's album is gonna be terrible, but still... Fatlip?!
all that needs to be said.
Just to play devil's advocate here (and further fan the flames), can we get some examples of this diversity on the radio?
My opinion, and I've said this before, is that negative aspects of rap get played up and promoted to:
A. make money
B. further perpetuate and encourage stereotypes
Do you really think all these articles and talk about the state of Hip Hop are from 30-40 something "keep it real-ers", or is there really something more here that the "2005 Keep It Trill Association" doesn't want to acknowledge?
Check the avatar
Just curious, have you heard any of the new Fatlip tracks and didn't like it, or you're just not into his previous work?
heh heh
well I haven't peeped the latest latest but I'm down with "What's Up Fatlip", dude is funny. I occasionally like a little humor in my rapping musics.
That's what I'm saying, I've been digging a few of the MP3s that have been floating around for a few years now, especially the one with him over that bluesy track.
I'd much rather hear Fatlip than another 8th-rate gangsta rapper over lazy drum programming and keys
current hot 97 top 10:
1. Soul Survivor Young Jeezy f/ Akon Def Jam
2. I Should've Cheated Keyshia Cole Interscope
3. There It Go (the Whistle Song) Juelz Santana Def Jam
4. Girl Tonight Twista f/ Tr?? Songz Atlantic
5. Run It Chris Brown f/ Juelz Santana Jive
6. We Be Burnin' Sean Paul Atlantic
7. Lighter's Up Lil Kim Queen Bee/ Atlantic
8. Youths Are So Cold Richie Spice Massive B
9. Stay Fly Three 6 Mafia Sony
10. Golddigger Kanye West Rocafella
current top ten from a certain college radio station, which i still get emails from for some reason
1 CAGE Hell's Winter
2 BLACKALICIOUS The Craft
3 BLACK MARKET MILITIA Black Market Militia
4 ATMOSPHERE You Can't Imagine How Much Fun We're
Having
5 BOOM BAP PROJECT Reprogram
6 PUMPKINHEAD Orange Moon Over Brooklyn
7 J-LIVE The Hear After
8 EDAN Beauty And The Beat
9 IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE "Bin Laden" [12-Inch]
10 VAST AIRE AND MIGHTY MI The Best Damn Rap Show
which is more diverse?
I would generally agree (though I'm not sure about the diversity thing: I feel like there might be more chairs, but it still feels like fewer rooms are open; that's mostly personal taste, though, so I'm leaving it alone) but I feel like that statement kinda minimizes radio's role as a not-inconsiderable influencer of the "interest [of] the listening public." The "proportion" argument is a thorny one. I mean, folks don't really believe that radio "just gives the people what they want," do they?
And I'm with peacefulrotation: There's nothing wrong with some funny shit.
For someone who is endlessly going on about how they don't even like hip hop anyway, you seem to assume a lot about the music.
As for the argument that the only topic that indy/underground hip hop talks about is moaning about keeping it real or whingeing about mainstream stuff. That is a load of bloody codswallop. So what if every once in awhile a track has that lyrical content, do you really believe that the majority do this?. If you did, you'd seriously be clowned for being ignorant. Because it just isn't the case. It's the same statement that is always pulled out from those who don't listen to it. As one of the writers for a magazine dedicated to all this shit that you hate (which we get sent countless records/cds to review), I can categoricaly state that you are so off the mark it isn't even funny. There's a heap of people on this board who's music we've reviewed or even interviewed or will in the future. And it doesn't fit into your neat perception of the music.
And for balance sake I've got one of your records & am not a hip hop snob, so don't even try & pull that card.
You left out the labels for the college top ten.
Where are you encountering all of these "articles"? In Idiotproof's magazine?
And, no, I don't think a bunch of people whining about the "state of hip-hop" on boards like SoulStrut and Okayplayer is indicative of much of anything.
awesome!
To me, Fatlip was one quarter of a rap group that pretty much embodies everything that I loathe about certain aspects of early nineties rap and would prefer to forget.
I did hear that "What's Up Fatlip?" 12" a few years back... which I would also prefer to forget.
how about we just list the promotion agency: SPECTRE, SPECTER, SPECTRE, SPECTRE, SPECTRE, SPECTER, SPECTRE, SPECTRE, SPECTRE & SPECTRE.
No, I don't know what you mean; I would personally rather hear an 8th-rate gangsta rapper over an 8th-rate depressed self-deprecating terd.
any suggestions?