So are you with Occupy or are you standing behind your I Love Bailouts stance that you have argued her so many times?
If this is directed at me cut and paste anything I've posted that states I support bail-outs, other than that I understand why they were done, and I'll donate $100 to OWS in your name.
That seems like an offer worthy of your time and efforts.
So are you with Occupy or are you standing behind your I Love Bailouts stance that you have argued here so many times?
If this is directed at me cut and paste anything I've posted that states I support bail-outs, other than that I understand why they were done, and I'll donate $100 to OWS in your name.
That seems like an offer worthy of your time and efforts.
Sorry about that.
It was directed at LMJ who does support bail outs.
The neo-nazi stuff was a strawman, just a dig at you for saying that Catholicism was the official religion of nazi Germany.
The real question for you is here:
Rockadelic said:
While the individual agendas being pursued by this wide spectrum of Americans may not all be noble, the one common cause that holds it all together is the protest of Bank and related Wall Street bail-outs.
So are you with Occupy or are you standing behind your I Love Bailouts stance that you have argued her so many times?
I never said Catholicism was the official religion of Nazi Germany. Ever. That would be as stupid as saying Nazis worshiped Thor.
Discussions with you always devolve like this because you don't care about facts and you have the memory of a mollusc.
And what a load of bullshit saying that I love bailouts. I consider the bailouts to have been mostly necessary - including the bailout of General Motor, by the way - in order to avoid a depression. That's a long way from "loving" them. And it certainly doesn't mean that I'm happy with the lack of strings involved with the bank bailouts. But since you like to simplify everything to the point of absurdity and you can't keep a thought in your head for more than an hour, think what you will. I'm beyond bored with you.
Piper changes his tune.
Either find where I mentioned nazis worshiping Thor or shut up about it. Never happened.
You have argued here many times about how great the bailouts were. It wasn't until the Occupy movement started that you started pretending otherwise.
The neo-nazi stuff was a strawman, just a dig at you for saying that Catholicism was the official religion of nazi Germany.
The real question for you is here:
Rockadelic said:
While the individual agendas being pursued by this wide spectrum of Americans may not all be noble, the one common cause that holds it all together is the protest of Bank and related Wall Street bail-outs.
So are you with Occupy or are you standing behind your I Love Bailouts stance that you have argued her so many times?
I never said Catholicism was the official religion of Nazi Germany. Ever. That would be as stupid as saying Nazis worshiped Thor.
Discussions with you always devolve like this because you don't care about facts and you have the memory of a mollusc.
And what a load of bullshit saying that I love bailouts. I consider the bailouts to have been mostly necessary - including the bailout of General Motor, by the way - in order to avoid a depression. That's a long way from "loving" them. And it certainly doesn't mean that I'm happy with the lack of strings involved with the bank bailouts. But since you like to simplify everything to the point of absurdity and you can't keep a thought in your head for more than an hour, think what you will. I'm beyond bored with you.
Piper changes his tune.
Either find where I mentioned nazis worshiping Thor or shut up about it. Never happened.
Of course it happened.
"The National Socialist government of Nazi Germany was, in my understanding, explicitly anti-Christian.
The official religion, to the degree there was one, was of Norse gods.
The Nazi's hated the Catholic church. The Vatican saw godless fascism as preferable to godless communism.
The relationship with the Lutheran church was more muted. "
Maybe you were shitfaced at the time. Maybe your homunculus posted that, and not you. Maybe your homunculus was shitfaced at the time.
In the meantime, while you're figuring out what went wrong, go fuck yourself until you find the stones to admit you're wrong.
Check the thread. I posted links to articles backing all that up.
Meanwhile you tried to say that they were Catholic and posted a link to an article that showed the exact opposite.
But this is not about that.
This is about your long love affair with Wall Street and the bank bailouts.
And all the insults in the world wont change that.
for real, whenever we find ourselves saying "show me where i ever said this or that" we should just take a breath and start over.
i was at Occupy Philly last evening hearing Frances Fox Piven speak. ive been passing through a couple times a week and bringing them food donations regularly. Just by my observations, there are constantly more tents and it is slanting heavily toward homeless populations. not to stereotype, but homeless populations tend to have a much higher degree of mental health issues. when Fox-Piven spoke, i did not see much homeless presence among the two hundred people in the audience...they were chilling in the tent areas and getting in the food line.
ive been debating with my housemate whether this is a good thing or bad. i'd argue its fine. Occupy is setting up in a plaza that has always been a homeless hang out. Occupy moves in, with tents food and media coverage, and more homeless head towards the semi-functioning community. Someone was telling me that budget cuts are about to close up a shelter several blocks from the encampment. Where are they going to go? ummmm, looks like occupy will get new "recruits". it would be hard to say they are part of the "movement" but i think its positive that the occupy thing doesnt hide from the face of one of our society's obvious signs of economic disparities and lack of safety net.
rockadelic's post counting sexual harassment/attacks and other criminal activities at Occupy camps bothered me. But, thinking about it a little, these camps are often open armed embraces of all types of people, in a very amorphously organized fashion. i dont know if you can demonize the poor cause they live in neighborhoods where people sell dope,etc. Anyway, i'm not blaming crime on crazy homeless folks, but i think its an extremely interesting aspect of the whole phenomenon that is worth discussing.
and i hope there is much more awareness about keeping people (especially women and kids) safe, if they are involved. having female nightwatch over womens tents does not seem like a bad idea at all. and any sexual predators need to be turned over to cops
for real, whenever we find ourselves saying "show me where i ever said this or that" we should just take a breath and start over.
i was at Occupy Philly last evening hearing Frances Fox Piven speak. ive been passing through a couple times a week and bringing them food donations regularly. Just by my observations, there are constantly more tents and it is slanting heavily toward homeless populations. not to stereotype, but homeless populations tend to have a much higher degree of mental health issues. when Fox-Piven spoke, i did not see much homeless presence among the two hundred people in the audience...they were chilling in the tent areas and getting in the food line.
ive been debating with my housemate whether this is a good thing or bad. i'd argue its fine. Occupy is setting up in a plaza that has always been a homeless hang out. Occupy moves in, with tents food and media coverage, and more homeless head towards the semi-functioning community. Someone was telling me that budget cuts are about to close up a shelter several blocks from the encampment. Where are they going to go? ummmm, looks like occupy will get new "recruits". it would be hard to say they are part of the "movement" but i think its positive that the occupy thing doesnt hide from the face of one of our society's obvious signs of economic disparities and lack of safety net.
rockadelic's post counting sexual harassment/attacks and other criminal activities at Occupy camps bothered me. But, thinking about it a little, these camps are often open armed embraces of all types of people, in a very amorphously organized fashion. i dont know if you can demonize the poor cause they live in neighborhoods where people sell dope,etc. Anyway, i'm not blaming crime on crazy homeless folks, but i think its an extremely interesting aspect of the whole phenomenon that is worth discussing.
and i hope there is much more awareness about keeping people (especially women and kids) safe, if they are involved. having female nightwatch over womens tents does not seem like a bad idea at all. and any sexual predators need to be turned over to cops
rockadelic's post counting sexual harassment/attacks and other criminal activities at Occupy camps bothered me. But, thinking about it a little, these camps are often open armed embraces of all types of people, in a very amorphously organized fashion. i dont know if you can demonize the poor cause they live in neighborhoods where people sell dope,etc. Anyway, i'm not blaming crime on crazy homeless folks, but i think its an extremely interesting aspect of the whole phenomenon that is worth discussing.
By no means do I think anything other than a small percentage of OWS participants are criminals or participating in criminal behavior. The one truly disturbing thing, if it???s true, is that OWS officials at the Baltimore site encouraged a rape victim(s) to not report the crime to police. As demonstrated in the Penn State thread that type of behavior is indeed despicable.
The truth is when you gather ANY large group of humans, teachers, politicians, police, soldiers, black, white, hispanic, etc., etc., etc. a percentage of them are going to just be bad people and/or people who don???t/won???t adhere to the basic rules of any society. In a perfect world all of those people would be fairly punished for their crimes, or better yet, none of these crimes would be committed???.the world will never be perfect.
for real, whenever we find ourselves saying "show me where i ever said this or that" we should just take a breath and start over.
i was at Occupy Philly last evening hearing Frances Fox Piven speak. ive been passing through a couple times a week and bringing them food donations regularly. Just by my observations, there are constantly more tents and it is slanting heavily toward homeless populations. not to stereotype, but homeless populations tend to have a much higher degree of mental health issues. when Fox-Piven spoke, i did not see much homeless presence among the two hundred people in the audience...they were chilling in the tent areas and getting in the food line.
ive been debating with my housemate whether this is a good thing or bad. i'd argue its fine. Occupy is setting up in a plaza that has always been a homeless hang out. Occupy moves in, with tents food and media coverage, and more homeless head towards the semi-functioning community. Someone was telling me that budget cuts are about to close up a shelter several blocks from the encampment. Where are they going to go? ummmm, looks like occupy will get new "recruits". it would be hard to say they are part of the "movement" but i think its positive that the occupy thing doesnt hide from the face of one of our society's obvious signs of economic disparities and lack of safety net.
rockadelic's post counting sexual harassment/attacks and other criminal activities at Occupy camps bothered me. But, thinking about it a little, these camps are often open armed embraces of all types of people, in a very amorphously organized fashion. i dont know if you can demonize the poor cause they live in neighborhoods where people sell dope,etc. Anyway, i'm not blaming crime on crazy homeless folks, but i think its an extremely interesting aspect of the whole phenomenon that is worth discussing.
and i hope there is much more awareness about keeping people (especially women and kids) safe, if they are involved. having female nightwatch over womens tents does not seem like a bad idea at all. and any sexual predators need to be turned over to cops
Thanks Tony. I needed a dope slap. Don't know why I engage that twit.
Much the same here.
We take donations down once a week.
Many people in Occupy Portland, whose population may be around 500, are homeless/street kids.
The press and critics are talking like Occupy created the homeless problem.
Truth is that for decades now, ever since Portland started on a concerted effort to close homeless shelters and SOR Hotels, the extremely poor have been living in Portland parks.
Occupy feeds and care for these people. Thus they are there.
It is a logistical problem. But, in my view, not a distraction from the message.
If we are to achieve economic justice the very poor will have to be a part of that equation.
It has been my experience that the homeless have political views and can often articulate them intelligently. That most don't participate in the political activities in the camp might say more about their struggles to live each day, and less about their lack of affinity.
The Portland Occupy is across from the city Justice Center. By Justice I mean Jail. People get out, have no home, job or prospects. But there is a camp with food shelter right across the street. Yeah, there are some bad people there too.
In the national news about yesterdays elections I heard lots of talk about Mississippi and Ohio.
To great victories.
But I have heard little about the recall of Russell Pearce.
He is the Arizona state senator who orchestrated 1070, the anti-brown law.
It wasn't liberal Democrats that kicked his butt to the curb. He is in a safe Republican district.
There is evidence that Republicans have already overreached and (fingers crossed) are going to pay for it next year.
[Many people in Occupy Portland, whose population may be around 500, are homeless/street kids.
Forgetting about the cause for a minute, is a protest of 200-300 people in a town of 500K plus considered significant in any possible measure?
It was by your own reckoning, way back when you said you'd be impressed if the protests lasted past your road trip.
How many different approaches will you use to express your palpable disdain for these protesters? You might as well be shaking your fist at them and yelling, "Get off the public's lawn!"
Impressed and significant are two totally different things.
I'd also be impressed if you went out to one of the protests and shared some of your charm.
[Many people in Occupy Portland, whose population may be around 500, are homeless/street kids.
Forgetting about the cause for a minute, is a protest of 200-300 people in a town of 500K plus considered significant in any possible measure?
For Portland metro you can say a million to 11/2million.
Yeah, it's hard to get a few hundred people out to protest any thing.
Protests of a few hundred are significant.
There have been Occupy rallies and marches here that have been between 1-2 thousand or more.
Actually Occupying is a whole other commitment level.
The only political events of the last 20 years I can think of that have surpassed was Obama's campaign stop, and perhaps a No Iraq War march that was held a few weeks before the war started.
If you compare it to Tea Party protests around the country that garnered lots of news, like the Town Hall meetings they disrupted, 200-300 is a pretty good turn out.
Another significant protest is the Westboro Church that protests at military funerals around the country.
They rarely have as many as 12 people. Just the same, they get tons of press.
They also get arrested and laws passed aimed specifically at them.
They make a tidy living off the money they make from civil liberties law suits.
Another significant protest is the Westboro Church that protests at military funerals around the country.
They rarely have as many as 12 people. Just the same, they get tons of press.
They also get arrested and laws passed aimed specifically at them.
I'm pretty certain the result of OWS will be similar with laws being passed about inhabiting public property without the correct permits and sanitary facilities being supplied.
Went down the next day at noon to the GA.
2 of the 3 occupied parks were completely vacated and Occupiers had removed all or almost all the trash and debris.
One corner of one park was still occupied by a brave (or uncooperative) few.
It appeared that the city was going to let them stay.
Cowboy fan at GA.
Anonymous speaker at GA. The blue tarps are the only structure left.
The eviction was 12:01 am Sunday. This is 12 hours later, noon Sunday.
At midnight there had been an official estimate of 5,000 people.
At noon there were a few hundred.
Happy that all had gone peacefully.
Then the police moved in, methodically and forcefully.
I have no moving in pictures, but the internet has lots.
By 1:00 the right to peacefully assemble had ended and the Police were the only people occupying the parks.
Comments
If this is directed at me cut and paste anything I've posted that states I support bail-outs, other than that I understand why they were done, and I'll donate $100 to OWS in your name.
That seems like an offer worthy of your time and efforts.
Sorry about that.
It was directed at LMJ who does support bail outs.
Piper changes his tune.
Either find where I mentioned nazis worshiping Thor or shut up about it. Never happened.
You have argued here many times about how great the bailouts were. It wasn't until the Occupy movement started that you started pretending otherwise.
Check the thread. I posted links to articles backing all that up.
Meanwhile you tried to say that they were Catholic and posted a link to an article that showed the exact opposite.
But this is not about that.
This is about your long love affair with Wall Street and the bank bailouts.
And all the insults in the world wont change that.
I said nothing about worshiping or Thor in what you showed.
Just because you posted a link it doesn't mean you are not a liar.
I am willing to stand behind what I said.
Unlike you.
Please tell us again how great the Wall Street bailouts were.
i was at Occupy Philly last evening hearing Frances Fox Piven speak. ive been passing through a couple times a week and bringing them food donations regularly. Just by my observations, there are constantly more tents and it is slanting heavily toward homeless populations. not to stereotype, but homeless populations tend to have a much higher degree of mental health issues. when Fox-Piven spoke, i did not see much homeless presence among the two hundred people in the audience...they were chilling in the tent areas and getting in the food line.
ive been debating with my housemate whether this is a good thing or bad. i'd argue its fine. Occupy is setting up in a plaza that has always been a homeless hang out. Occupy moves in, with tents food and media coverage, and more homeless head towards the semi-functioning community. Someone was telling me that budget cuts are about to close up a shelter several blocks from the encampment. Where are they going to go? ummmm, looks like occupy will get new "recruits". it would be hard to say they are part of the "movement" but i think its positive that the occupy thing doesnt hide from the face of one of our society's obvious signs of economic disparities and lack of safety net.
rockadelic's post counting sexual harassment/attacks and other criminal activities at Occupy camps bothered me. But, thinking about it a little, these camps are often open armed embraces of all types of people, in a very amorphously organized fashion. i dont know if you can demonize the poor cause they live in neighborhoods where people sell dope,etc. Anyway, i'm not blaming crime on crazy homeless folks, but i think its an extremely interesting aspect of the whole phenomenon that is worth discussing.
and i hope there is much more awareness about keeping people (especially women and kids) safe, if they are involved. having female nightwatch over womens tents does not seem like a bad idea at all. and any sexual predators need to be turned over to cops
Thank you for the insightful post.
memo to penn state administration
By no means do I think anything other than a small percentage of OWS participants are criminals or participating in criminal behavior. The one truly disturbing thing, if it???s true, is that OWS officials at the Baltimore site encouraged a rape victim(s) to not report the crime to police. As demonstrated in the Penn State thread that type of behavior is indeed despicable.
The truth is when you gather ANY large group of humans, teachers, politicians, police, soldiers, black, white, hispanic, etc., etc., etc. a percentage of them are going to just be bad people and/or people who don???t/won???t adhere to the basic rules of any society. In a perfect world all of those people would be fairly punished for their crimes, or better yet, none of these crimes would be committed???.the world will never be perfect.
Thanks Tony. I needed a dope slap. Don't know why I engage that twit.
Much the same here.
We take donations down once a week.
Many people in Occupy Portland, whose population may be around 500, are homeless/street kids.
The press and critics are talking like Occupy created the homeless problem.
Truth is that for decades now, ever since Portland started on a concerted effort to close homeless shelters and SOR Hotels, the extremely poor have been living in Portland parks.
Occupy feeds and care for these people. Thus they are there.
It is a logistical problem. But, in my view, not a distraction from the message.
If we are to achieve economic justice the very poor will have to be a part of that equation.
It has been my experience that the homeless have political views and can often articulate them intelligently. That most don't participate in the political activities in the camp might say more about their struggles to live each day, and less about their lack of affinity.
The Portland Occupy is across from the city Justice Center. By Justice I mean Jail. People get out, have no home, job or prospects. But there is a camp with food shelter right across the street. Yeah, there are some bad people there too.
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2011/11/09/total-recall-author-arizona-immigration-law-voted-out-office/
In the national news about yesterdays elections I heard lots of talk about Mississippi and Ohio.
To great victories.
But I have heard little about the recall of Russell Pearce.
He is the Arizona state senator who orchestrated 1070, the anti-brown law.
It wasn't liberal Democrats that kicked his butt to the curb. He is in a safe Republican district.
There is evidence that Republicans have already overreached and (fingers crossed) are going to pay for it next year.
Forgetting about the cause for a minute, is a protest of 200-300 people in a town of 500K plus considered significant in any possible measure?
Impressed and significant are two totally different things.
I'd also be impressed if you went out to one of the protests and shared some of your charm.
But that wouldn't be particularly significant.
For Portland metro you can say a million to 11/2million.
Yeah, it's hard to get a few hundred people out to protest any thing.
Protests of a few hundred are significant.
There have been Occupy rallies and marches here that have been between 1-2 thousand or more.
Actually Occupying is a whole other commitment level.
The only political events of the last 20 years I can think of that have surpassed was Obama's campaign stop, and perhaps a No Iraq War march that was held a few weeks before the war started.
If you compare it to Tea Party protests around the country that garnered lots of news, like the Town Hall meetings they disrupted, 200-300 is a pretty good turn out.
Another significant protest is the Westboro Church that protests at military funerals around the country.
They rarely have as many as 12 people. Just the same, they get tons of press.
They also get arrested and laws passed aimed specifically at them.
They make a tidy living off the money they make from civil liberties law suits.
They absolutely are. However, I'm not usually impressed by insignificant things. Maybe you are?
b/w
It's not the size of the wave, it's the motion in the ocean.
I'm pretty certain the result of OWS will be similar with laws being passed about inhabiting public property without the correct permits and sanitary facilities being supplied.
Didn't they represent those Westboro cretins?
Horrendous shit. Some of the people in that front line have been seriously injured I am now hearing.
"is that what you do to your wife at home?"
"There's more of us, you back it up. We're trying to stick up for this country, this state and this school."
I've heard this one before.
12:01 Sunday police will evict Occupy Portland.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/jay-z-set-launch-occupy-wall-street-t-shirt-line-profits-99-article-1.975636
DOA
http://m.gawker.com/5858978/jay+z-not-selling-his-controversial-occupy-all-streets-shirts-anymore
Perhaps somebody pointed out to him the irony of selling OWS shirts as part of his clothing line named after the Rockefellers.
Occupy Portland, home for hundreds of people, received 72 hour eviction notice.
Packing up Day Care Center
2 of the 3 occupied parks were completely vacated and Occupiers had removed all or almost all the trash and debris.
One corner of one park was still occupied by a brave (or uncooperative) few.
It appeared that the city was going to let them stay.
Cowboy fan at GA.
Anonymous speaker at GA. The blue tarps are the only structure left.
The eviction was 12:01 am Sunday. This is 12 hours later, noon Sunday.
At midnight there had been an official estimate of 5,000 people.
At noon there were a few hundred.
Happy that all had gone peacefully.
Then the police moved in, methodically and forcefully.
I have no moving in pictures, but the internet has lots.
By 1:00 the right to peacefully assemble had ended and the Police were the only people occupying the parks.
I AND I COME TO CHANGE THE MOOD