Maybe that MLJ inspired hypothetical wasn't so outlandish....
The protest in Oakland turned, in the words of one protestor, ???from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos.???
A group of about 100 protestors, mostly male, broke off from the main group and moved through downtown Oakland setting fires and spray-painting graffiti. The protestors set up camp in a vacant building and started a large bonfire in the middle of a street. Then police in riot gear moved in. According to police, the protestors also threw chunks of concrete and Molotov cocktails, prompting the use of tear gas and ???flash bang??? grenades.
Some protesters around the country say violence can bring attention to their cause.
???This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,??? said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.
Maybe that MLJ inspired hypothetical wasn't so outlandish....
The protest in Oakland turned, in the words of one protestor, ???from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos.???
A group of about 100 protestors, mostly male, broke off from the main group and moved through downtown Oakland setting fires and spray-painting graffiti. The protestors set up camp in a vacant building and started a large bonfire in the middle of a street. Then police in riot gear moved in. According to police, the protestors also threw chunks of concrete and Molotov cocktails, prompting the use of tear gas and ???flash bang??? grenades.
Some protesters around the country say violence can bring attention to their cause.
???This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,??? said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.
Yes. Sounds like it is time for his pithy, insult filled answer to your question.
Typically here in the NW there are lots of young people in black hoodies and bandanas over their faces at any political gathering. They call themselves anarchists and love baiting the police. Surprisingly their presences at Occupy Portland has been insignificant. So far.
The reality of Occupy Portland is that there is a community of about 500 people. Feeding, clothing, sheltering and cleaning up the camp is most peoples focus. Still there are almost daily protests and rallies and actions. Many of these are organized by outside groups like the Sierra Club.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Rockadelic said:
According to police, the protestors also threw chunks of concrete, nuclear waste, Chinese throwing stars, shards of broken dreams, agitated pitbulls, John Denver albums, AIDS-infected human remains and Molotov cocktails, , prompting the use of tear gas and ???flash bang??? grenades.
Maybe that MLJ inspired hypothetical wasn't so outlandish....
The protest in Oakland turned, in the words of one protestor, ???from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos.???
A group of about 100 protestors, mostly male, broke off from the main group and moved through downtown Oakland setting fires and spray-painting graffiti. The protestors set up camp in a vacant building and started a large bonfire in the middle of a street. Then police in riot gear moved in. According to police, the protestors also threw chunks of concrete and Molotov cocktails, prompting the use of tear gas and ???flash bang??? grenades.
Some protesters around the country say violence can bring attention to their cause.
???This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,??? said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.
Which is perfect for you. Since you've never been much open to the legitimate issues at the heart of all this. You use bullshit like this to strengthen your stance. It could be 10,000 protesting and 20 people breaking the law and right away it's ok for police to be using unnecessary (And even illegal) force for everyone.
Maybe that MLJ inspired hypothetical wasn't so outlandish....
The protest in Oakland turned, in the words of one protestor, ???from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos.???
A group of about 100 protestors, mostly male, broke off from the main group and moved through downtown Oakland setting fires and spray-painting graffiti. The protestors set up camp in a vacant building and started a large bonfire in the middle of a street. Then police in riot gear moved in. According to police, the protestors also threw chunks of concrete and Molotov cocktails, prompting the use of tear gas and ???flash bang??? grenades.
Some protesters around the country say violence can bring attention to their cause.
???This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,??? said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.
Which is perfect for you. Since you've never been much open to the legitimate issues at the heart of all this. You use bullshit like this to strengthen your stance. It could be 10,000 protesting and 20 people breaking the law and right away it's ok for police to be using unnecessary (And even illegal) force for everyone.
What exactly is my "stance"?.
I'm asking what is an appropriate response from Police when crimes like throwing rocks, bottles, concrete and molotov cocktails are committed by people claiming to reprsent the OWS cause?
it's always a small fraction of anarchists who do stupid shit like this, not a majority of the protestors at all.
Agreed
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Rockadelic said:
DOR said:
Rockadelic said:
Maybe that MLJ inspired hypothetical wasn't so outlandish....
The protest in Oakland turned, in the words of one protestor, ???from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos.???
A group of about 100 protestors, mostly male, broke off from the main group and moved through downtown Oakland setting fires and spray-painting graffiti. The protestors set up camp in a vacant building and started a large bonfire in the middle of a street. Then police in riot gear moved in. According to police, the protestors also threw chunks of concrete and Molotov cocktails, prompting the use of tear gas and ???flash bang??? grenades.
Some protesters around the country say violence can bring attention to their cause.
???This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,??? said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.
Which is perfect for you. Since you've never been much open to the legitimate issues at the heart of all this. You use bullshit like this to strengthen your stance. It could be 10,000 protesting and 20 people breaking the law and right away it's ok for police to be using unnecessary (And even illegal) force for everyone.
What exactly is my "stance"?.
I'm asking what is an appropriate response from Police when crimes like throwing rocks, bottles, concrete and molotov cocktails are committed by people claiming to reprsent the OWS cause?
Will you answer that question straightforwardly?
The most appropriate response would be for the police to FUCK OFF!
Maybe that MLJ inspired hypothetical wasn't so outlandish....
The protest in Oakland turned, in the words of one protestor, ???from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos.???
A group of about 100 protestors, mostly male, broke off from the main group and moved through downtown Oakland setting fires and spray-painting graffiti. The protestors set up camp in a vacant building and started a large bonfire in the middle of a street. Then police in riot gear moved in. According to police, the protestors also threw chunks of concrete and Molotov cocktails, prompting the use of tear gas and ???flash bang??? grenades.
Some protesters around the country say violence can bring attention to their cause.
???This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,??? said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.
Which is perfect for you. Since you've never been much open to the legitimate issues at the heart of all this. You use bullshit like this to strengthen your stance. It could be 10,000 protesting and 20 people breaking the law and right away it's ok for police to be using unnecessary (And even illegal) force for everyone.
What exactly is my "stance"?.
I'm asking what is an appropriate response from Police when crimes like throwing rocks, bottles, concrete and molotov cocktails are committed by people claiming to reprsent the OWS cause?
Will you answer that question straightforwardly?
What question? That people should be arrested? I'm not sure how that has anything to do with the people who are being assaulted by police for doing nothing more than peacefully protesting. Are you suggesting that because there are a few who are breaking the law, that all protestors must be treated with such assaults?
Your "stance"? Well, your first post was
"Traveling carnival of trust fund anarchists, unemployed / unemployable hipsters and part-time Starbucks / Kinkos workers of the world united to stick it to the man, man."
And since then, your post go long the same lines... Posting the crazy's and fools that are breaking laws. Instead of discussing the 99% of the protesters who have legitimate issues.
Some protesters around the country say violence can bring attention to their cause.
???This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,??? said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.[/i]
And since then, your post go long the same lines... Posting the crazy's and fools that are breaking laws. Instead of discussing the 99% of the protesters who have legitimate issues.
Go back and read this thread....No one has engaged you directly about the actual topic of bank loans and the reasons SOME of the OWS folks are legitimately protesting about than me.
When you post a video of a minority(one) of the police on hand over stepping his bounds I replied with facts about the 100 some odd folks who resorted to violence, started fires and threw objects....why did I do that? Because you never would and it's always best to look at all sides of an issue.
These folks don't remotely represent 99% of anything or anyone and those who purport they do are either ignorant or being intellectually dishonest.
And since then, your post go long the same lines... Posting the crazy's and fools that are breaking laws. Instead of discussing the 99% of the protesters who have legitimate issues.
Go back and read this thread....No one has engaged you directly about the actual topic of bank loans and the reasons SOME of the OWS folks are legitimately protesting about than me.
When you post a video of a minority(one) of the police on hand over stepping his bounds I replied with facts about the 100 some odd folks who resorted to violence, started fires and threw objects....why did I do that? Because you never would and it's always best to look at all sides of an issue.
These folks don't remotely represent 99% of anything or anyone and those who purport they do are either ignorant or being intellectually dishonest.
We've had more than one video of police posted over stepping their bounds. From the women who were pepper sprayed for no reason (In the first days of protest) to the cop that threw the gas canister deliberately into the crowd trying to help the Iraq veteran to this last video of the guy just filming with a camera shot for no reason.
Your replies tend to be posting of the protesters being losers or anti semitic crazies and where protest are just a hand full of people in Texas showing up.
Like I've said many times. Anyone breaking the law should be arrested. You seem to not include the police into the same set of standards.
In the part you posted above about MLK, it would be nice if you included links to where you are quoting from. So I could read the rest of the article. I'm sure you know the rules about citing sources and all that jazz. Then I wouldn't just get the cherry picked parts.
Then I could read about how the 100 protestors who are getting violent is partly due to the Scott Olsen incident.
Your replies tend to be posting of the protesters being losers or anti semitic crazies and where protest are just a hand full of people in Texas showing up.
Like I've said many times. Anyone breaking the law should be arrested. You seem to not include the police into the same set of standards.
In the part you posted above about MLK, it would be nice if you included links to where you are quoting from. So I could read the rest of the article. I'm sure you know the rules about citing sources and all that jazz. Then I wouldn't just get the cherry picked parts.
Then I could read about how the 100 protestors who are getting violent is partly due to the Scott Olsen incident.
1) I am offended by the anti-semitic comment as I have never posted nor commented on anything remotely close to this.
2) I NEVER posted ANYTHING about MLK....you need to pay closer attention.
3) If my goal was to simply make OWS protestors look bad, or represent the entire group as criminals I would have linked at least one of the below stories here....I didn't.
The arrest of Dustin Taylor, 34, of Ohio, on Oct. 28 for allegedly threatening to stab a reporter with a ball-point pen.
The Oct. 12 assault arrest of a protester from California for allegedly pushing and hitting cops while screaming: ???I???m a lawyer! I???m going to f--king sue!???
In Vancouver, Canada a woman in her 20s was found dead of a drug overdose in a tent at Occupy Vancouver.
In New York, Occupy Wall Street has had to set up a woman???s only tent and all woman security detail to prevent rapes and sexual harassment at the OWS encampment there.
A rapist barged into a woman???s tent and sexually assaulted her at around 6 a.m., said protesters, who chased him from the park. ???Pervert! Pervert! Get the f--k out!??? said vigilante Occupiers, who never bothered to call the cops.
Reports from Occupy Baltimore where a young woman says she was raped over the weekend and nobody from the protest movement helped her.
Tonye Iketubosin, 26 -- who has been working at the protesters??? makeshift kitchen at Zuccotti Park since last month -- was charged yesterday in the sex abuse of an 18-year-old protester in the tent he helped her pitch on Oct. 24, the sources said.
A protester, angered by the presence of a news crew inside Zuccotti Park Friday morning, threatened to stab Fox 5 News reporter John Huddy. Police arrested the protester.
A 40-year old man carrying a rifle case over his shoulder," according to the Seattle Police . A background check revealed that the man was a convicted felon. A search of the case revealed an unloaded short barreled rifle with a pistol grip. Officers asked the man if he had any ammunition for the rifle and he provided them with an ammunition box that contained approximately 16 rounds.
A 23-year-old Austin man faces aggravated assault charges after police say he pulled a knife and made threatening gestures Saturday night at the Occupy Austin gathering in front of City Hall
In the video below, you can hear the protesters counting down and then rushing the police. At least one officer is struck in the head by a protester (@00:10). Another can be seen kicking an officer (@00:15). The police repeatedly order the protesters to "Get back" and they ignore the orders:
Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.
Occupy Wallstreet' Protesters Steal from Local Businesses
OccupyOakland Protesters Storm, Vandalize, Shut Down Chase Bank
A Zuccotti Park protester threw a violent fit in a McDonald???s yesterday after employees refused to give him free food. Fisika Bezabeh, 27, ripped a credit-card reader from a counter and threw it at workers at about 2:30 a.m. at the Mickey D???s at 160 Broadway, a bathroom spot for protesters.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg admonished OWS protestors for failing to report crimes as "despicable," saying they are putting the rest of the city at risk, according to Metro New York.
On October 21, a 34-year old man and a 31-year old woman were arrested for allegedly trying to sell heroin in the Tent City area of Occupy Boston. The two suspects were reportedly living there with a child. Upon arrest, Brown told officers he had moved into Tent City three weeks prior, and had joined the Occupy Boston movement.
Now that OWS is organized group, lawsuits can be filed.
Those of you that have been harassed, coerced, raped, groped, and a victim of theft need a class action attorney. OWS has money and can afford retribution.
A 23-year old woman was charged with felony prostitution for trying to solicit a 16-year old girl she met in Victory Park during the Occupy Manchester demonstrations. She also allegedly tried, through the Internet, to arrange a liaison for the minor with a man who was actually an undercover police officer.
A convicted sex offender participating in the Occupy Dallas demonstrations was arrested last week after allegedly sexually assaulting a 14-year old girl who was staying in the protestors??? encampment.
Police are investigating an alleged rape that occurred against a 19-year old female student with a disability. The alleged rape occurred after the young woman was reportedly told to share a tent with an unknown person due to a shortage of tents.
A 7-Eleven one block from the protests in Portland, Ore., reported a higher-than-normal $6,000 in shoplifting since the protest began Oct. 6. The store has added a security guard.
A 27 year old OWS protestor was arrested for defecating on a NYC patrol car.
Joshua Wiles, 27, was charged with disorderly conduct during the protest at Foley Square, police said ??? the second time last week that a teacher connected to the protest was arrested.
Sources said that three people were charged with assaulting a police officer during the march and four others were hit with obstructing governmental administration and resisting arrest.
Last Tuesday afternoon, teacher David Suker, 43, was charged with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct after he allegedly refused to get out of the middle of Prince and Thompson streets in SoHo. According to court documents, Suker pushed a shopping cart into a police scooter that a cop was sitting on, knocking it over.
More than 50 Occupy Wall Street protesters are headed toward a trial on disorderly conduct charges after they refused prosecutors' offers to dismiss the charges if they stay out of trouble for six months. They were among 79 demonstrators due in Manhattan criminal court Thursday on charges stemming from a Sept. 24 march to Union Square. Prosecutors say the demonstrators blocked traffic and prevented pedestrians from getting by. But many of the protesters say the disorderly conduct charges weren't justified. They say they stayed on the sidewalk, took care to leave a path for others to get through and followed police instructions.
Your replies tend to be posting of the protesters being losers or anti semitic crazies and where protest are just a hand full of people in Texas showing up.
Like I've said many times. Anyone breaking the law should be arrested. You seem to not include the police into the same set of standards.
In the part you posted above about MLK, it would be nice if you included links to where you are quoting from. So I could read the rest of the article. I'm sure you know the rules about citing sources and all that jazz. Then I wouldn't just get the cherry picked parts.
Then I could read about how the 100 protestors who are getting violent is partly due to the Scott Olsen incident.
1) I am offended by the anti-semitic comment as I have never posted nor commented on anything remotely close to this.
2) I NEVER posted ANYTHING about MLK....you need to pay closer attention.
3) If my goal was to simply make OWS protestors look bad, or represent the entire group as criminals I would have linked at least one of the below stories here....I didn't.
1. I meant MLJ, not MLK post. My mistake. But still stands on you not linking to the original sources...
2. I was talking about the video you posted.
3. You asked how I knew what your stance was. And my answer was from your first post. Where you stated "Traveling carnival of trust fund anarchists, unemployed / unemployable hipsters and part-time Starbucks / Kinkos workers of the world united to stick it to the man, man."
And from there you have posted mostly nothing more than threads or video's discounting the protest. I mean, if you had anything other to add to the discussion besides making light of or vilifying the protest...
And from there you have posted mostly nothing more than threads or video's discounting the protest. I mean, if you had anything other to add to the discussion besides making light of or vilifying the protest...
I don't appreciate >0.000005% of the population stating that they represent 99%, including me, when they don't.
While I agree with and sympathize with a percentage of the protestors and their issues there is way too much that their members claim to be representing that I am diametrically opposed to and I won't support them as a whole for that reason.
I think any policeman that breaks the law should be charged with a crime.
I think any protestor that breaks the law should be charged with a crime.
I support the police to enforce the laws they are being paid to enforce and think that rubber bullets and tear gas are a fair response to being pelted with bottles, rocks, etc.
I support those protestors who peacefully protest without impeding upon, destroying property of or stealing from the 99% that they claim to be representing.
I will continue to convey those feelings in this thread until it is over.
Great. We agree in part. But that's not how you started in this thread. Right from the beginning you labeled the protest as nothing more than losers. Before anyone did anything to property or police.
Great. We agree in part. But that's not how you started in this thread. Right from the beginning you labeled the protest as nothing more than losers. Before anyone did anything to property or police.
You know as well as I do that at the outset of this protest the people involved were those same folks who had been involved in protests/riots in Minnesota, Vancouver, Seattle, etc. over the last few years.
These are, for lack of a better word, professional protestors....and yes, losers.
Great. We agree in part. But that's not how you started in this thread. Right from the beginning you labeled the protest as nothing more than losers. Before anyone did anything to property or police.
You know as well as I do that at the outset of this protest the people involved were those same folks who had been involved in protests/riots in Minnesota, Vancouver, Seattle, etc. over the last few years.
These are, for lack of a better word, professional protestors....and yes, losers.
They have a history of violence and these are the "anarchists who do stupid shit like this" as Ms. Head has pointed out.
They were there at the beginning of OWS and they are still there.
The protest started Sept. 17th. Post the date violence started to take place by protestors in any serious type of manner.
Did you even read your link?
Sep 26, 2011 (Oddly enough, the same day you posted your first post on the losers).
"The movement has been steadfast in imploring members to remain non-violent, in response to apparent police violence."
"This weekend, the police, who up until then had been relatively docile, began to flex their muscles. Photos and videos documented alleged incidents of police brutality:
Police pen up and mace female protesters [Raw Story]
Young man arrested simply for walking down the street [laurasthinkingwithportals]
Protester thrown over barricade by police [Video shot by Daniel Fitzsimmons, link via evanfleischer]
Protester shouts, ???Is this what you???re about????, gets cuffed [@LibertyPlazaRev]
Officer pushes sitting protester, man stands up, cops arrest him [@LilKing420s]
Cops Tackle, Mace Wall St. Protesters for No Obvious Reason [Gawker]"
You already had your mind made up about these people and the protest without violence being a factor. But at least you admit it.
I'll just leave up the video Harvey posted on the same day.
This movement has grown hugely since the beginning. Even if your one-sided take on its beginnings has merit, what does it matter now?
So let me get this straight.
Even though this group may have started out as a bunch of fringe lunatics there are now a majority of average everyday ???99%??? citizens in the movement which gives it merit.
Pointing out that the group has members that range from criminals to neo-Nazi racists is insignificant because they are in the minority.
Focusing on the ignorant, crazy and misguided members is to do a disservice to a group that is represented by literally thousands of average everyday blue and white collar tax payers???.the theoretical 99%.
While the individual agendas being pursued by this wide spectrum of Americans may not all be noble, the one common cause that holds it all together is the protest of Bank and related Wall Street bail-outs.
And as part of the 99% you not only support these protestors, but you also feel they represent you by virtue of that core common cause of opposing these bail-outs.
Is that a fair assessment???..do most of you agree with that assessment?
Today the police, around the country, say they are arresting violent demonstrators to protect the public. 6 months from now they will be paying out huge sums of money for violating these peaceful protesters civil rights.
This movement has grown hugely since the beginning. Even if your one-sided take on its beginnings has merit, what does it matter now?
So let me get this straight.
Even though this group may have started out as a bunch of fringe lunatics there are now a majority of average everyday ???99%??? citizens in the movement which gives it merit.
Pointing out that the group has members that range from criminals to neo-Nazi racists is insignificant because they are in the minority.
Focusing on the ignorant, crazy and misguided members is to do a disservice to a group that is represented by literally thousands of average everyday blue and white collar tax payers???.the theoretical 99%.
While the individual agendas being pursued by this wide spectrum of Americans may not all be noble, the one common cause that holds it all together is the protest of Bank and related Wall Street bail-outs.
And as part of the 99% you not only support these protestors, but you also feel they represent you by virtue of that core common cause of opposing these bail-outs.
Is that a fair assessment???..do most of you agree with that assessment?
Rock, do you agree citizens have the right to protest? Yes or no? If the answer is yes, there is nothing really to assess. Anything else is moot.
This movement has grown hugely since the beginning. Even if your one-sided take on its beginnings has merit, what does it matter now?
So let me get this straight.
Even though this group may have started out as a bunch of fringe lunatics there are now a majority of average everyday ???99%??? citizens in the movement which gives it merit.
Pointing out that the group has members that range from criminals to neo-Nazi racists is insignificant because they are in the minority.
Focusing on the ignorant, crazy and misguided members is to do a disservice to a group that is represented by literally thousands of average everyday blue and white collar tax payers???.the theoretical 99%.
While the individual agendas being pursued by this wide spectrum of Americans may not all be noble, the one common cause that holds it all together is the protest of Bank and related Wall Street bail-outs.
And as part of the 99% you not only support these protestors, but you also feel they represent you by virtue of that core common cause of opposing these bail-outs.
Is that a fair assessment???..do most of you agree with that assessment?
Jesus, that's about as fair as a lynching.
The "neo-Nazi racists" bit is such total Fox News bullshit you should be ashamed just for typing it. Some Breitbart type goes to a rally and finds some Tea Party-affiliated asshole walking around pretending to be a "member" and you accept it?
"For some time, the right-wing media has been attempting to brand Occupy Wall Street and related protests as anti-Semitic. In the latest example, conservative blogger Jim Hoft is pointing to video of heavily armed Neo-Nazi J.T. Ready patrolling the Occupy Phoenix protest and saying nice things about the movement.
Hoft sarcastically concludes, "Yup. They're just like the tea party."
It's worth pointing out that much of the rhetoric Ready spouts during the video -- decrying fiat money, saying that he and others were "exercising our Second Amendment right so that everybody can have a First Amendment right," claiming that Operation Fast and Furious was intended to "take away our rights" and the perpetrators are traitors who should be put to death -- sounds much more like the rhetoric of a conservative protestor than an OWS supporter.
And indeed, that's the problem for Hoft: Ready previously attended and reportedly spoke at Tea Party rallies.
In July 2009, Phoenix New Times reported that according to multiple sources, Ready spoke at a July 4 Tea Party rally at the Arizona state capitol.
In November 2009, PNT reported that Ready had attended "a recent anti-amnesty tea party" on the capitol lawn.
In April 2010, PNT reported that Ready had organized a "recent tea party protest" at Wells Fargo's Phoenix headquarters. Then-Senate candidate and Tea Party favorite J.D. Hayworth reportedly spoke at the event.
J.T. Ready is not the only white supremacist figure to seek access to the Tea Party. American Third Position, a white nationalist political party founded by racist skinheads, have organized, co-sponsored, or freely distributed literature at no fewer than 10 Tea Party rallies in six states. The group has openly claimed that they see the Tea Party as "fertile ground" for recruitment."
The neo-nazi stuff was a strawman, just a dig at you for saying that Catholicism was the official religion of nazi Germany.
The real question for you is here:
Rockadelic said:
While the individual agendas being pursued by this wide spectrum of Americans may not all be noble, the one common cause that holds it all together is the protest of Bank and related Wall Street bail-outs.
So are you with Occupy or are you standing behind your I Love Bailouts stance that you have argued her so many times?
Comments
I wasn't the one who brought up throwing molotov cocktails....so it's not my hypothetical.
The protest in Oakland turned, in the words of one protestor, ???from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos.???
A group of about 100 protestors, mostly male, broke off from the main group and moved through downtown Oakland setting fires and spray-painting graffiti. The protestors set up camp in a vacant building and started a large bonfire in the middle of a street. Then police in riot gear moved in. According to police, the protestors also threw chunks of concrete and Molotov cocktails, prompting the use of tear gas and ???flash bang??? grenades.
Some protesters around the country say violence can bring attention to their cause.
???This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,??? said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.
Yes. Sounds like it is time for his pithy, insult filled answer to your question.
Typically here in the NW there are lots of young people in black hoodies and bandanas over their faces at any political gathering. They call themselves anarchists and love baiting the police. Surprisingly their presences at Occupy Portland has been insignificant. So far.
The reality of Occupy Portland is that there is a community of about 500 people. Feeding, clothing, sheltering and cleaning up the camp is most peoples focus. Still there are almost daily protests and rallies and actions. Many of these are organized by outside groups like the Sierra Club.
Which is perfect for you. Since you've never been much open to the legitimate issues at the heart of all this. You use bullshit like this to strengthen your stance. It could be 10,000 protesting and 20 people breaking the law and right away it's ok for police to be using unnecessary (And even illegal) force for everyone.
What exactly is my "stance"?.
I'm asking what is an appropriate response from Police when crimes like throwing rocks, bottles, concrete and molotov cocktails are committed by people claiming to reprsent the OWS cause?
Will you answer that question straightforwardly?
it's always a small fraction of anarchists who do stupid shit like this, not a majority of the protestors at all.
Agreed
The most appropriate response would be for the police to FUCK OFF!
Thank you.
What question? That people should be arrested? I'm not sure how that has anything to do with the people who are being assaulted by police for doing nothing more than peacefully protesting. Are you suggesting that because there are a few who are breaking the law, that all protestors must be treated with such assaults?
Your "stance"? Well, your first post was
"Traveling carnival of trust fund anarchists, unemployed / unemployable hipsters and part-time Starbucks / Kinkos workers of the world united to stick it to the man, man."
And since then, your post go long the same lines... Posting the crazy's and fools that are breaking laws. Instead of discussing the 99% of the protesters who have legitimate issues.
Now why didn't Gandhi and MLK think of this?
Go back and read this thread....No one has engaged you directly about the actual topic of bank loans and the reasons SOME of the OWS folks are legitimately protesting about than me.
When you post a video of a minority(one) of the police on hand over stepping his bounds I replied with facts about the 100 some odd folks who resorted to violence, started fires and threw objects....why did I do that? Because you never would and it's always best to look at all sides of an issue.
These folks don't remotely represent 99% of anything or anyone and those who purport they do are either ignorant or being intellectually dishonest.
We've had more than one video of police posted over stepping their bounds. From the women who were pepper sprayed for no reason (In the first days of protest) to the cop that threw the gas canister deliberately into the crowd trying to help the Iraq veteran to this last video of the guy just filming with a camera shot for no reason.
Your replies tend to be posting of the protesters being losers or anti semitic crazies and where protest are just a hand full of people in Texas showing up.
Like I've said many times. Anyone breaking the law should be arrested. You seem to not include the police into the same set of standards.
In the part you posted above about MLK, it would be nice if you included links to where you are quoting from. So I could read the rest of the article. I'm sure you know the rules about citing sources and all that jazz. Then I wouldn't just get the cherry picked parts.
Then I could read about how the 100 protestors who are getting violent is partly due to the Scott Olsen incident.
1) I am offended by the anti-semitic comment as I have never posted nor commented on anything remotely close to this.
2) I NEVER posted ANYTHING about MLK....you need to pay closer attention.
3) If my goal was to simply make OWS protestors look bad, or represent the entire group as criminals I would have linked at least one of the below stories here....I didn't.
The arrest of Dustin Taylor, 34, of Ohio, on Oct. 28 for allegedly threatening to stab a reporter with a ball-point pen.
The Oct. 12 assault arrest of a protester from California for allegedly pushing and hitting cops while screaming: ???I???m a lawyer! I???m going to f--king sue!???
In Vancouver, Canada a woman in her 20s was found dead of a drug overdose in a tent at Occupy Vancouver.
In New York, Occupy Wall Street has had to set up a woman???s only tent and all woman security detail to prevent rapes and sexual harassment at the OWS encampment there.
A rapist barged into a woman???s tent and sexually assaulted her at around 6 a.m., said protesters, who chased him from the park. ???Pervert! Pervert! Get the f--k out!??? said vigilante Occupiers, who never bothered to call the cops.
Reports from Occupy Baltimore where a young woman says she was raped over the weekend and nobody from the protest movement helped her.
Tonye Iketubosin, 26 -- who has been working at the protesters??? makeshift kitchen at Zuccotti Park since last month -- was charged yesterday in the sex abuse of an 18-year-old protester in the tent he helped her pitch on Oct. 24, the sources said.
A protester, angered by the presence of a news crew inside Zuccotti Park Friday morning, threatened to stab Fox 5 News reporter John Huddy. Police arrested the protester.
A 40-year old man carrying a rifle case over his shoulder," according to the Seattle Police . A background check revealed that the man was a convicted felon. A search of the case revealed an unloaded short barreled rifle with a pistol grip. Officers asked the man if he had any ammunition for the rifle and he provided them with an ammunition box that contained approximately 16 rounds.
A 23-year-old Austin man faces aggravated assault charges after police say he pulled a knife and made threatening gestures Saturday night at the Occupy Austin gathering in front of City Hall
In the video below, you can hear the protesters counting down and then rushing the police. At least one officer is struck in the head by a protester (@00:10). Another can be seen kicking an officer (@00:15). The police repeatedly order the protesters to "Get back" and they ignore the orders:
Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.
Occupy Wallstreet' Protesters Steal from Local Businesses
OccupyOakland Protesters Storm, Vandalize, Shut Down Chase Bank
A Zuccotti Park protester threw a violent fit in a McDonald???s yesterday after employees refused to give him free food. Fisika Bezabeh, 27, ripped a credit-card reader from a counter and threw it at workers at about 2:30 a.m. at the Mickey D???s at 160 Broadway, a bathroom spot for protesters.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg admonished OWS protestors for failing to report crimes as "despicable," saying they are putting the rest of the city at risk, according to Metro New York.
On October 21, a 34-year old man and a 31-year old woman were arrested for allegedly trying to sell heroin in the Tent City area of Occupy Boston. The two suspects were reportedly living there with a child. Upon arrest, Brown told officers he had moved into Tent City three weeks prior, and had joined the Occupy Boston movement.
Now that OWS is organized group, lawsuits can be filed.
Those of you that have been harassed, coerced, raped, groped, and a victim of theft need a class action attorney. OWS has money and can afford retribution.
A 23-year old woman was charged with felony prostitution for trying to solicit a 16-year old girl she met in Victory Park during the Occupy Manchester demonstrations. She also allegedly tried, through the Internet, to arrange a liaison for the minor with a man who was actually an undercover police officer.
A convicted sex offender participating in the Occupy Dallas demonstrations was arrested last week after allegedly sexually assaulting a 14-year old girl who was staying in the protestors??? encampment.
Police are investigating an alleged rape that occurred against a 19-year old female student with a disability. The alleged rape occurred after the young woman was reportedly told to share a tent with an unknown person due to a shortage of tents.
A 7-Eleven one block from the protests in Portland, Ore., reported a higher-than-normal $6,000 in shoplifting since the protest began Oct. 6. The store has added a security guard.
A 27 year old OWS protestor was arrested for defecating on a NYC patrol car.
Joshua Wiles, 27, was charged with disorderly conduct during the protest at Foley Square, police said ??? the second time last week that a teacher connected to the protest was arrested.
Sources said that three people were charged with assaulting a police officer during the march and four others were hit with obstructing governmental administration and resisting arrest.
Last Tuesday afternoon, teacher David Suker, 43, was charged with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct after he allegedly refused to get out of the middle of Prince and Thompson streets in SoHo. According to court documents, Suker pushed a shopping cart into a police scooter that a cop was sitting on, knocking it over.
More than 50 Occupy Wall Street protesters are headed toward a trial on disorderly conduct charges after they refused prosecutors' offers to dismiss the charges if they stay out of trouble for six months. They were among 79 demonstrators due in Manhattan criminal court Thursday on charges stemming from a Sept. 24 march to Union Square. Prosecutors say the demonstrators blocked traffic and prevented pedestrians from getting by. But many of the protesters say the disorderly conduct charges weren't justified. They say they stayed on the sidewalk, took care to leave a path for others to get through and followed police instructions.
1. I meant MLJ, not MLK post. My mistake. But still stands on you not linking to the original sources...
2. I was talking about the video you posted.
3. You asked how I knew what your stance was. And my answer was from your first post. Where you stated "Traveling carnival of trust fund anarchists, unemployed / unemployable hipsters and part-time Starbucks / Kinkos workers of the world united to stick it to the man, man."
And from there you have posted mostly nothing more than threads or video's discounting the protest. I mean, if you had anything other to add to the discussion besides making light of or vilifying the protest...
I don't appreciate >0.000005% of the population stating that they represent 99%, including me, when they don't.
While I agree with and sympathize with a percentage of the protestors and their issues there is way too much that their members claim to be representing that I am diametrically opposed to and I won't support them as a whole for that reason.
I think any policeman that breaks the law should be charged with a crime.
I think any protestor that breaks the law should be charged with a crime.
I support the police to enforce the laws they are being paid to enforce and think that rubber bullets and tear gas are a fair response to being pelted with bottles, rocks, etc.
I support those protestors who peacefully protest without impeding upon, destroying property of or stealing from the 99% that they claim to be representing.
I will continue to convey those feelings in this thread until it is over.
You know as well as I do that at the outset of this protest the people involved were those same folks who had been involved in protests/riots in Minnesota, Vancouver, Seattle, etc. over the last few years.
These are, for lack of a better word, professional protestors....and yes, losers.
Some of the OWS supporters in the media as much as admitted this.
http://blogs.reuters.com/anthony-derosa/tag/occupy-wall-street/
They have a history of violence and these are the "anarchists who do stupid shit like this" as Ms. Head has pointed out.
They were there at the beginning of OWS and they are still there.
The protest started Sept. 17th. Post the date violence started to take place by protestors in any serious type of manner.
Did you even read your link?
Sep 26, 2011 (Oddly enough, the same day you posted your first post on the losers).
"The movement has been steadfast in imploring members to remain non-violent, in response to apparent police violence."
"This weekend, the police, who up until then had been relatively docile, began to flex their muscles. Photos and videos documented alleged incidents of police brutality:
Police pen up and mace female protesters [Raw Story]
Young man arrested simply for walking down the street [laurasthinkingwithportals]
Protester thrown over barricade by police [Video shot by Daniel Fitzsimmons, link via evanfleischer]
Protester shouts, ???Is this what you???re about????, gets cuffed [@LibertyPlazaRev]
Officer pushes sitting protester, man stands up, cops arrest him [@LilKing420s]
Cops Tackle, Mace Wall St. Protesters for No Obvious Reason [Gawker]"
You already had your mind made up about these people and the protest without violence being a factor. But at least you admit it.
I'll just leave up the video Harvey posted on the same day.
Wow...that is an amazing coincidence.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. The 2 things you quoted aren't tied together.
"The protest started Sept. 17th. Post the date violence started to take place by protestors in any serious type of manner."
is asking you to post a date.
"Sep 26, 2011 (Oddly enough, the same day you posted your first post on the losers)."
Is the date to the article you posted above http://blogs.reuters.com/anthony-derosa/tag/occupy-wall-street/
So let me get this straight.
Even though this group may have started out as a bunch of fringe lunatics there are now a majority of average everyday ???99%??? citizens in the movement which gives it merit.
Pointing out that the group has members that range from criminals to neo-Nazi racists is insignificant because they are in the minority.
Focusing on the ignorant, crazy and misguided members is to do a disservice to a group that is represented by literally thousands of average everyday blue and white collar tax payers???.the theoretical 99%.
While the individual agendas being pursued by this wide spectrum of Americans may not all be noble, the one common cause that holds it all together is the protest of Bank and related Wall Street bail-outs.
And as part of the 99% you not only support these protestors, but you also feel they represent you by virtue of that core common cause of opposing these bail-outs.
Is that a fair assessment???..do most of you agree with that assessment?
The 99% are the rest of Americans who share the left over 60% of wealth.
The Occupy movement does not pretend to represent the political views of every American in the 99%. They simply want economic justice for all of us.
Rock, do you agree citizens have the right to protest? Yes or no? If the answer is yes, there is nothing really to assess. Anything else is moot.
And yes, I believe EVERY American has the right to peaceful protest(for the umpteenth time)
The neo-nazi stuff was a strawman, just a dig at you for saying that Catholicism was the official religion of nazi Germany.
The real question for you is here:
So are you with Occupy or are you standing behind your I Love Bailouts stance that you have argued her so many times?