How Do We Get The "Average" Record Collector/Digger To The Record Shows
esskay
221 Posts
I am going to cut to the chase here. We know it's a BAD economy & there's other factors like downloading, Serato, reissues, etc. Most record shows here in the California area are now not attended by the everyday/average record collector/digger-this goes for people that are into genres including indie rock, punk, reggae, americana, oldies, etc., etc. & the music we champion here like jazz/funk/soul/boogie/latin/brazilian/psych/etc. I see these folks supporting the local record stores (some of which are thriving) & @ the swap meet but not @ the shows or conventions. We could go with a simple answer of more publicity/marketing with an emphasis @ colleges, nightclubs, cafes, etc. but that has been tried. Feedback & open minds/thoughts please.
Comments
1) Divide the show into two sections with a "Collectors Vinyl" section and an all $10 and under section. The $10 and under dealers pay 1/2 price for tables and can't have anything that sells for more than ten bucks.
2) The "Collectors Vinyl" dealers can pay for their table with either cash or a record worth twice as much as whatever the cash price is. Then take those expensive records and "plant" them in the ten buck and under section.
3) Make sure you monitor who finds the big $$$ records for cheap and document it in the ad for the next show.
If you're looking to build a long term Record Show those things could work......if there is still a market for a Record Show in your area.
Good ideas, but I think this would make the dealers paranoid about selling stuff for too cheap.
I set up at ARC with records that are all under $10.00......I "plant" some pretty damn good records in the mix.
When I open up my table it's swamped.
While all those vultures are at my table I'm out scoring the good shit on the floor
Paying to get in. There is something wrong with charging people to shop.
I have been to free shows. They are a madhouse when they doors are opened. I am not complaining.
For most shows charging is necessary to pay for the event. Table rents just are not going to cover it. Also helps with crowd control.
Early entry. It is a myth that all the good records go early. A lot sellers don't load in or open their tables till the thing opens to the public. I have found great records at the end of the day. Once a guy brought a whole table of mint $1 easy listening. I found a Meters ST on Josie while most the sellers were packing it in and loading out.
Most early entry people in the NW are collectors who are looking for what they want, not to scoop up every good record in sight, on the other hand, there are some sellers who are trying to scoop every good record.
The other reason people pay for early is because they want to avoid the crowds, they snatch their Blonde on Blonde and Abbey Road with the misprint and get out before the doors open.
Same people, same records. This is a problem with monthly, bi-monthly or even quarterly shows. Or multiple competing shows. And it definitely drives buyers away. Some markets and sellers can only sustain one show a year.
Crowding, poor hygiene, obnoxious people. Yeap.
Already a longtime show here put on by my friend Al Garth:
www.sandiegorecordshow.com.
Most folks do all their interacting with the world through their computer. It seems hard to get anyone to come out to do anything outside of their routine. Someone can hang out with friends and get great new music without ever leaving their room these days. I happen to love face to face commerce, but I don't think that's the norm.
I don't buy any records at the show and I'm not quite sure why. I sold a few hundred records on Saturday, tripled my previous best income, but didn't buy one record. I usually get overwhelmed by the amount of records there, and don't like the prices. The guy next to me had records listed for $15-20 that were in my dollar bin. Zipper cover stones record? $70. I had two of them for $15 each. Am I undercutting, or are they crazy for trying to get top popsike prices?
For some reason, it feels like cheating with that many records there. Shooting fish in a barrel so to speak. I'd rather find my records in the wild, or trade with a friend. They seem to have more meaning to me. Anyone else feel this way?
The guy who puts on the show does some pretty good advertising. I see fliers up all over the place. There's a mailing list. He blasts facebook, etc. But still, everyone I know that loves records never has even heard of the SD Record Show until I tell them about it. Still then, it's difficult to get them to show up no matter how enthusiastic they were at the time.
Time and time again, I see the exact same fiends at the show. I'd say it's 80% the same people every time asking me the same questions they always ask and looking for the same records. I know the Dylan guy, the beatles guy, the hendrix guy, the punk guy, etc. It is nice to able to predict what will sell. I just can't believe there aren't more new people in there snatching up great records for cheap.
Solutions? Maybe a "bring someone new and get in for free" or "first time free" program? It wouldn't be hard to tell who was new at the SD show. My barber has a new customer referral program where we both get half price haircuts. It's a win/win/win for all of us and I can't remember the last time I paid full price for a haircut.
I know a lot of customers are overwhelmed by the large amount of unknown records. Maybe dealers could have a "recommended for cheap" category that had the some of the dealer's recommended picks for $5-10? A lot of dealers I know are catering to the regular fiends like us and not the new customers.
Scheduled power outages? All of Southern California was without power for half a day recently, and it was like community bonding day. I think we should do it more often. Everyone was being social, having neighbors over, giving away ice cream.
That's all I got for now.
I've always wondered if it was a method to avoid having to many
diggers around while you're diggin.
Seriously the worst human smell i ever smell was at record show. Are those people
saving from buying deodorant to buy more records?
This+10 euros entry+ overpriced records+ always the same records/seller = the reason
i don't go to record show no more.
Things that would make me start going to more record shows (and jesus I own a record store I *should* be going to these shows!)
First, later start time, 8am early admission on a Sunday is not going to get it done. Matter of fact, dead the tiered "early entry" bullshit. While we're at it, (try to) dead the early load-in "dealer-on-dealer" action that leaves few remaining gems for the paying customers. Food/beer is a big plus. DJs. More party, less grip. Get young, casual collectors to buy tables or team up. This brings new stock into the mix, usually the prices are way more fair, and they can sometimes even carry a conversation. Better promotion. Better venues... some of the shows do this well but others are at the same old hotel conference rooms.
If you're thinking of throwing a show, perhaps consider curating the dealers themselves. If a dude keeps bringing the same wack shit, tell them to step up or step off. Actively court guys that can bring cool stock. This, to me, is the life or death of a record fair. Selling at your local fair is not an inalienable right. Some of these dudes totally harsh the entire event and ruin it for the average customer.
These are great suggestions, but I feel that genuinely nothing will bring the casual record collector to a show. Nothing.
As a show promoter over the last 15 years, and coming from a family that began the entire record show thing in Canada in 1975, shows have always been about the collector type regardless of what people might do to get the word out to boost attendance. My Dad did so many things it was insane. During the 50s craze in the late 70s he (in one show mind you) GAVE AWAY a Vintage 50s jukebox as a door prize, and had bands playing during the day and at night which was Free with admission. One of those groups was The Teenagers (minus Frankie Lymon of course) with all Original members. It was FREE, and it still only marginally affected the turn out.
For my part I have had dozens of giveaways, got amazing TV coverage (that's right folks.... VINYL records are back.... yeesh blame me for everything that has caused) on highly viewed local stations, radio coverage from some of the biggest stations as well as college on shows that played all genres, hung flyers in hipster record stores as well as collector haunts, given away free passes galore and soooo much more. Temporary boosts do happen as a result of these things, but these folks are NEVER repeat customers.
The collector will smell you out (riffing on an earlier reference) and come down, and that seems to be pretty well it.
I tend to agree with this.
This weekend @ ARC I did 80% of my business on Friday when there are only Dealers in the room and another 10% over Saturday & Sunday was from these same dudes coming back for seconds.
One of the most depressing moments in my record dealing life came in the 90's when we had a local Record Show at a Hotel and right next door was a Baseball Card Show. The Record Show was attended mostly by your "average" record collector who spent hours deciding which records to spend their $20-$50 on while right next door there were gaggles of 12 year old kids carrying rolls of $20's that would choke a horse.
As I walked around ARC I saw a variety of dealers, many of which bring no to little value to the show.
THE $1.00 - $3.00 DEALER - For the most part these guys have picked over chud. There may be a couple of gems in there that were passed over during years of being picked but for the most part these are records for the ultra-beginner collector or the school teacher who needs LP's for an "art project".
THE POPSIKE & 10% DEALER - These guys seem to just be flossing their collections. I watched one this weekend have a customer pile up $102 dollars worth of overpriced, but nice LP's, and the dealer gave him a discount of two bucks!! Dude put the records back and walked away as he should have.
THE OLD SCHOOL CRUST DEALER - Still thinks Nazz LP's are worth $100 and can't understand why no one is buying their $20 Suprmes LP's or the $50 Jimmy Buffet's. Some of these guys may not even own computers and have not figured out that the game has changed.
That being said there are certainly dealers that do "get it" and know what to bring to a specific show and what to charge in order to sell quantity. ARC has about 25%-40% of these type of dealers who do well and get lots of repeat business.
Condition is one of the big keys.....a thirty dollar record in G- condition is not a $20 record...it's shit.
Personally I have a "schtick" that I use @ ARC where I try to bring about 1,000 LP's that most people have never heard of and charge five bucks a piece if you make a pile of 10 or more. I also "plant" a couple of $100 and a couple of $50 records in there as well. I usually sell about 1/2 of what I bring and that works out great for me but I understand not everyone would want to do this.
Bottom line is that you can have a VERY successful show without drawing the "average" record collector if you cultivate the right dealers.
Disclaimer: All my comments are based on the LP scene...I'm not a 45 guy and don't know that world at all.
If u "commercialize" shit the real heads will poo-poo it.
I do think some sex appeal is needed. I dont knoe if that means some dumb tits and ass nonsense, ut i recall hitting up a convention and Mary Wilson was there with her own table signing photos and vinyl.
Pay and mid level record celeb to attract the regular folks even if the heads feel like autographs degrade the condition.
At theat same convention Bambaataa was there shovelling out some dolllar bin shit along with some gems and had a dj spinning his stash.
There has to be some space within the format to tweak shit and get the game beyond the nose breathers.
Hire a food truck, have a dj contest, etc. U have to make it an EVENT to attract the regular folks.
I have thrown two smaller swaps over the past 6 months or so. The first was in the driveway of my house, and was honestly one of the most fun swaps I've ever attended (my obvious bias aside). Outdoors, tons of beer, tons of good folks, and tons of great records from a variety of sellers. Advertising was done via Soulstrut / Waxidermy / Facebook only. The turnout was great but obviously mostly DJs and a few collectors (and one homeless diggeur supreme).
The second one was hosted in the back patio of an upscale wood-fired pizza restaurant located in prime real estate in one of the more happening parts of Oakland. We had a lot of random foot traffic from hipsters walking by and coming in to check things out. Definitely room to expand on that for sure. Made tons of cash and spent most of it right back on records. Also, I sold probably 75-100 $1 records to WOMEN over the course of the day, plus other priced stuff. There were lots of ladies that came out to buy and just hang with all the dreamy record doodz.
To echo what Jonny said above, pick who you want to sell carefully. There are definitely a couple sellers that I will not be inviting back. I had about 20 sellers total, ranging everywhere from 18 box dealers to 1 crate new-jacks.
This is all to say that it is going to be hard to attract regular folks out to a "Record Convention". Venue is extremely important (location, space itself, nearby features), but also sellers, starting times and VIBE.
Later start time?
Food?
Beer?
Djs?
More party?
Young casual collectors selling and teaming up?
Better dealers?
You are describing the Night Owl Record Show. I expect to see you at the next one.
We did something like this once. It is a great idea in theory but did not work that well.
And speaking of "Zoe"...Chirp is also the only convention I've ever been to where the demographics are 50% female. And they're actually shopping, digging for rekkids just like their brethren. Zoe ain't standing around bored, waiting for Jared to finish up so they can go grab a damn bagel.
In the 90s they had Dr Demento, Richie Haven, historic Woodstock photo show, and more.
I always feel sorry for those celebes because no one, NO ONE, comes to a record show to see those people. Even Jerry Osborne was completely ignored. (Or should I say especially Jerry Osborne was ignored?)
I have seen Mason Williams, the Whip Cream Lady (Delores Eriksson), Norma Fraser and many others be totally ignored by shoppers at shows.
One thing we have to acknowledge is most people do not have a working turntable and records.
-lack of selection
-overpriced beat up records (when it's cheaper for me to get it online, even after factoring in shipping costs, there's a problem)
-smelly/crusty old fucks
-way too much common garbage
-too many reissues
-sellers bringing chud -> waste of time
Advantages:
-I'm mostly looking for boogie & disco atm so, although there isn't usually much selection, when there are some records I can usually get them for cheap because of a lack of interest from other attendees
-occasional clueless sellers
-some people are willing to bargain (although I don't really bother)
-finding out about stores/dealers you may not of known (although it rarely happens these days)
---
Try attracting more dealers from out of town with different stock/selection.
Space out crates so you don't have to wait for slow crusty mofos to go through 2 or 3 back to back crates.
Make sure there are people selling new releases that would appeal to the average digger or the hipster clientele.
Lower costs for a table perhaps to attract more sellers & more variety.
Have ongoing events, perhaps have local bands.
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About the closest I can think of to a record convention attracting "average" record collectors is the Chirp fair (formerly WLUW Record Fair) in Chicago. I know Dante C. or somebody is probably reading this and groaning, but the event does attract a lot more indie-rock types than you normally see at a convention like this. You've got Doo-Wop Joe With The B.O. standing side by side with Jared the Hipster (and his girlfriend Zoe).
And speaking of "Zoe"...Chirp is also the only convention I've ever been to where the demographics are 50% female. And they're actually shopping, digging for rekkids just like their brethren. Zoe ain't standing around bored, waiting for Jared to finish up so they can go grab a damn bagel.
This is what needs to happen here in San Diego & Los Angeles for the shows. I originally posted this because @ the end of the record show days my boxes are still full of reasonably priced jazz/funk/soul/boogie/rock/latin records that are cheaper & not to be found in the local record shows-the James Brown, Eddie Palmieri, or Tim Buckley record the "hipster" buys for $25 @ the local shop I sell for $15.
My bad-I meant RECORD SHOPS.
This goes back to the whole "crate diggers" argument but if you're worried about Teh Real Headz' opinion... you will not succeed.
NewJack Zach & Zoe are buying records. Ol'Head Otis is scoping your wall, grousing about prices, telling you what he already has or what he found for $1 the other day on the street, listening to four records he can't afford (and putting them back in the wrong places), and leaving without spending a dime.
Stinky dudes? Crap records in bad condition? Same stuff everytime? Rude insane caricatures of humanity? High prices? Too many re-issues? How is any of this any different than the thrift stores, local shops, or even tours around the not-so-local shops I hit up all the time simply out of boredom during the evenings and my weekends off?
I'm not trying to justify my reasons for not going because frankly, I just don't feel strongly enough either way. It's not like I make a conscious decision not to go. Record shows, in their current incarnation, simply don't even enter the sphere of my consideration as something I might want to think about attending. If you want me and my kind there, make it something I can do without thinking about, on a whim, without any sense of commitment, or any real feelings about it either way. If you don't want to do that, that's fine too, why should I care? I am the average record collector. You must deal. or not. Whichever.