Sure it is. It signifies beating your beloved slaveowners and the Nazis, and letting untold millions of immigrants in to have a great life. Including my parents.
Who did the Confederates beat other than helpless slaves? I'll leave out the endless rapes. I know you don't even want to think about such things while you're eulogizing the Land Of Cotton.
So one flag has a mixed history. True. But the Confederate flag doesn't. It's unadulterated worthlessness that no decent person can defend.
I keep seeing Dixie fans talk about all the other wonderful things it supposedly represents but they never seem to spell out just what those things are. I guess that because it's bullshit.
Seriously, you're coughing up balls of shit in this thread like a cat with obstructed bowels.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
BobDesperado said:
HarveyCanal said:
The American flag is no better.
Sure it is. It signifies beating your beloved slaveowners and the Nazis, and letting untold millions of immigrants in to have a great life. Including my parents.
Who did the Confederates beat other than helpless slaves? I'll leave out the endless rapes. I know you don't even want to think about such things while you're eulogizing the Land Of Cotton.
So one flag has a mixed history. True. But the Confederate flag doesn't. It's unadulterated worthlessness that no decent person can defend.
I keep seeing Dixie fans talk about all the other wonderful things it supposedly represents but they never seem to spell out just what those things are. I guess that because it's bullshit.
Seriously, you're coughing up balls of shit in this thread like a cat with obstructed bowels.
The Rebel flag represents a lifestyle, more agrarian than urban or the dreaded cosmopolitan. It also represents, like the Texas flag does as well, the autonomy to recognize that the federal government can act more like a weight than a proper vehicle. Both facets are historically important, instilling much pride in those that choose to stand behind or even just respect the concept of Dixie. Again, slavery has been outlawed for 150 years. And today nobody but the most extreme wingnuts are calling for a return to slavery by flying their Rebel flag. Only a few years before slavery was outlawed in Dixie was it outlawed up North. So this high moral ground that some of you reserve for the North is your own bit of revisionism. Again, Lincoln originally had no intention of ending slavery, which was still running rampant world-wide at that time. Plus, the North even today is just as racist as the South, in some ways moreso because at least down here blacks and whites actually interact on a significant cultural level. Seriously, if Rawhamburger's paranoid dreams came true and a new Civil War did pop off today, you'd be floored by how many blacks would choose to roll with the South. Honestly, if a piece of cloth on its own hurts your feelings, then you need to thicken your skin already. And yes, today there are just as many blacks caught up in the prison system than there were enslaved back in the day...and that's on the US flag, not the Rebel flag. And I repeat...TODAY.
For 80+ of those years the United States flew a flag while the entire country, north and south, benefitted from slave labor.
The Confederate Flag flew for 4 of those years, and while it represented the people who wanted to maintain slavery, it also represents the exact time in our history when the American people said enough is enough and the good in our country overcame the evil....that flag marked the beginning of the end of slavery at a time when even President Lincoln was willing to continue to allow slavery to exist. The Stars & Bars represents the losing fight to keep slavery....the flag(s) from the previous 75 years represented a unified country that had no problem with slavery, or at least passively allowed it to exist.
The Confederate flag is a flag of losers which always amused me when Charlie Daniels sang "The South's Gonna Do It Again"...whatcha gonna do Chuck, get your ass kicked AGAIN!?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Seriously, if Rawhamburger's paranoid dreams came true and a new Civil War did pop off today, you'd be floored by how many blacks would choose to roll with the South.
There won't be a new Civil War. Most of the Southern states depend on the blue states for financial support, so they won't bite the hand that feeds them.
Seriously, if Rawhamburger's paranoid dreams came true and a new Civil War did pop off today, you'd be floored by how many blacks would choose to roll with the South.
There won't be a new Civil War. Most of the Southern states depend on the blue states for financial support, so they won't bite the hand that feeds them.
As a black person I'll just say this: You can't offend me with any motherfuckin' flag, t-shirt, or whatever. I judge people by their actions alone. Having said that, I can't help but be wary of people who are so full of "southern pride" or whaever that they feel the need to fly those colors. I'm not going to assume they are racists, and I will give a person a chance, but I am not going to assume they are harmless either.
People wearing Skynyrd shirts I avoid just because they usually smell bad.
My initial point is that people in this country fly the Rebel flag without any sense of shame. I suspect that people wearing Skynyrd shirts do so without any awareness of how shameful that episode in our history is. They wear it like they wear a skull and cross bones to make a statement of identity or defiance. But just like Rock wearing an Iron cross sends a message that he was unaware of that doesn't make it acceptable. Good people should point out what the true meaning of the rebel flag is.
Rock here's a little something you can write to your local representative about in Tejas. Texas still hates gay people
My initial point is that people in this country fly the Rebel flag without any sense of shame. I suspect that people wearing Skynyrd shirts do so without any awareness of how shameful that episode in our history is. They wear it like they wear a skull and cross bones to make a statement of identity or defiance. But just like Rock wearing an Iron cross sends a message that he was unaware of that doesn't make it acceptable. Good people should point out what the true meaning of the rebel flag is.
Seriously, if Rawhamburger's paranoid dreams came true and a new Civil War did pop off today, you'd be floored by how many blacks would choose to roll with the South.
There won't be a new Civil War. Most of the Southern states depend on the blue states for financial support, so they won't bite the hand that feeds them.
So much for Southern values and being opposed to the fed and all.
Huh??
His comparison of the two maps is puzzling....
The states in the South vote Republican and get good return on their tax dollars.(Except for Texas and Florida)
The states in the North vote Democrat and get poor return on their tax dollars.
Am I understanding that correctly?
No.
The states that claim to be against big government and federal government suck the hardest at the federal tit because they're just kidding about what they're against.
We here up North don't mind helping out our red state brethren that lack the ability to care for themselves. That's what being a Union is all about.
I grew up in a primarily Jewish neighborhood and when I was about 12 I wore something that was called a "Surfers Cross". One of my friends father's scolded me and told me it was a symbol of the Nazi Army.....I never wore it again out of respect(and not wanting to be scolded) but it had no ill intent on my part, nor on the part of the 1,000's of other kids who wore them.
Your father's friend is certainly entitled to be offended by anything he wants, but he is, in this case, quite wrong. The Iron Cross was the symbol of the German army until 1918, when it was retired at the end of World War I. The swastika was the primary symbol of the Nazi party and the German army under Hitler, with the Iron Cross remaining as an honorary medal, similar to the American army's Purple Heart or Medal of Honor.
He is conflating symbols from different eras of German history, much like the kid in my high school who worked himself up into a righteous lather and called me a Nazi one day because I was wearing an army/navy store-purchased East German officer's shirt circa 1960. People are welcome to their opinions of course, but if you're going to go around scolding others, you should really make sure you know what the fuck you're talking about.
I grew up in a primarily Jewish neighborhood and when I was about 12 I wore something that was called a "Surfers Cross". One of my friends father's scolded me and told me it was a symbol of the Nazi Army.....I never wore it again out of respect(and not wanting to be scolded) but it had no ill intent on my part, nor on the part of the 1,000's of other kids who wore them.
Your father's friend is certainly entitled to be offended by anything he wants, but he is, in this case, quite wrong. The Iron Cross was the symbol of the German army until 1918, when it was retired at the end of World War I. The swastika was the primary symbol of the Nazi party and the German army under Hitler, with the Iron Cross remaining as an honorary medal, similar to the American army's Purple Heart or Medal of Honor.
He is conflating symbols from different eras of German history, much like the kid in my high school who worked himself up into a righteous lather and called me a Nazi one day because I was wearing an army/navy store-purchased East German officer's shirt circa 1960. People are welcome to their opinions of course, but if you're going to go around scolding others, you should really make sure you know what the fuck you're talking about.
"The famous custom car designer Ed "Big Daddy" Roth sold various "surfer accessories" in the 1960s that were based on WW 2 German items, like his "surfer's helmet" that is a plastic copy of a German helmet and he also manufactured his own Surfer's Cross. By 1966 Roth claimed to have sold 51,800 crosses and "that Hitler did a hell of a public relations job for me.""
"Adolf Hitler restored the Iron Cross in 1939 as a German decoration (rather than Prussian as in earlier versions), continuing the tradition of issuing it in various grades. Legally it is based on the enactment (Reichsgesetzblatt I S. 1573[4]) of 1 September 1939 Verordnung ??ber die Erneuerung des Eisernen Kreuzes (Regulation for the Re-introduction of the Iron Cross). The Iron Cross of the Second World War was divided into three main series of decorations with an intermediate category, the Knight's Cross, instituted between the lowest, the Iron Cross, and the highest, the Grand Cross. The Knight's Cross replaced the Prussian Pour le M??rite or "Blue Max". Hitler did not care for the Pour le M??rite, as it was a Prussian order that could be awarded only to officers. The ribbon of the medal (2nd class and Knight's Cross) was different from the earlier Iron Crosses in that the color red was used in addition to the traditional black and white (black and white were the colours of Prussia, while black, white, and red were the colors of Germany). Hitler also created the War Merit Cross as a replacement for the non-combatant version of the Iron Cross. It also appeared on certain Nazi flags (mostly the Third Reich flags) in the upper left corner. The edges were curved, like most original iron crosses."
Adolf Hitler restored the Iron Cross in 1939 as a German decoration (rather than Prussian as in earlier versions), continuing the tradition of issuing it in various grades.
Exactly. It was a military decoration, like the American Purple Heart or Medal of Honor. American servicemen took them home as memorabilia after removing them from dead soldiers' bodies. It's like saying the Purple Heart is a sign of American military aggression. They are tangentially related at best.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
DrWu said:
My initial point is that people in this country fly the Rebel flag without any sense of shame. I suspect that people wearing Skynyrd shirts do so without any awareness of how shameful that episode in our history is. They wear it like they wear a skull and cross bones to make a statement of identity or defiance. But just like Rock wearing an Iron cross sends a message that he was unaware of that doesn't make it acceptable. Good people should point out what the true meaning of the rebel flag is.
But you have no clue what the true meaning is...you are simplifying it to the nth degree by claiming it represents an endorsement of slavery and that's all. Being that you aren't even from the South, none of this is surprising. Obviously, it makes you feel better to look down on folks just because you have self-created an angle to do so.
And how is still wanting to do what you have already been doing for hundreds of years "shameful"? Unfortunate, yes. Something that needed to happen, yes. But shameful? Again, the North was also still holding plenty of slaves at the onset of the Civil War.
If you are actually a fan of the Union and the grandiose of America and all that, fine time for you to get off the divisive bullshit. And some of the other people who have been agreeing with you throughout this thread are career haters of the South, no matter the topic or issue. Y'all don't even see how laughable it is that you are using 150 year old history, long since corrected, to justify your purely emotional bias today.
And how is still wanting to do what you have already been doing for hundreds of years "shameful"? Unfortunate, yes. Something that needed to happen, yes. But shameful? Again, the North was also still holding plenty of slaves at the onset of the Civil War.
wtf?
are you really such an apologist for the South that you'll fight against the characterization of slavery as 'shameful'??
as for the rest of it, you really need to read a book or something
Lately I have been having trouble getting images to post.
Anyway, if people up north put the 34 star flag of the Union army on their cars and over their state houses, I could see how some people would take offense. Especially those people who have family who were killed by soldiers flying that flag.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Soulhawk said:
HarveyCanal said:
And how is still wanting to do what you have already been doing for hundreds of years "shameful"? Unfortunate, yes. Something that needed to happen, yes. But shameful? Again, the North was also still holding plenty of slaves at the onset of the Civil War.
wtf?
are you really such an apologist for the South that you'll fight against the characterization of slavery as 'shameful'??
as for the rest of it, you really need to read a book or something
The worldwide system of slavery that persisted for thousands of years was indeed shameful.
But to single out the South, the way y'all are doing here, is extremely short-sighted.
Again, this old news has y'all heated. But if someone talks about actual racism today...*crickets*.
And how is still wanting to do what you have already been doing for hundreds of years "shameful"? Unfortunate, yes. Something that needed to happen, yes. But shameful? Again, the North was also still holding plenty of slaves at the onset of the Civil War.
wtf?
are you really such an apologist for the South that you'll fight against the characterization of slavery as 'shameful'??
as for the rest of it, you really need to read a book or something
The worldwide system of slavery that persisted for thousands of years was indeed shameful.
But to single out the South, the way y'all are doing here, is extremely short-sighted.
Again, this old news has y'all heated. But if someone talks about actual racism today...*crickets*.
I see y'all.
Angry heated post deleted.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Thank you, Oregon, for telling us what our flag means.
We got any Canadiens who want to take a stab at it now?
Harvey, i have no problem looking down on ignoramuses who sport the rebel flag for whatever reason. That shit stands for something offensive no matter what kind of excuses people make for it. Now if you want to take umbrage for everyone in the south that's your problem. I am sticking to the people who fly/wear the flag.
Your dissembling about the conditions of blacks in North and South before and after the war is both disturbing and misinformed.
Comments
:game_over: Ya'll!
The Rebel flag represents a lifestyle, more agrarian than urban or the dreaded cosmopolitan. It also represents, like the Texas flag does as well, the autonomy to recognize that the federal government can act more like a weight than a proper vehicle. Both facets are historically important, instilling much pride in those that choose to stand behind or even just respect the concept of Dixie. Again, slavery has been outlawed for 150 years. And today nobody but the most extreme wingnuts are calling for a return to slavery by flying their Rebel flag. Only a few years before slavery was outlawed in Dixie was it outlawed up North. So this high moral ground that some of you reserve for the North is your own bit of revisionism. Again, Lincoln originally had no intention of ending slavery, which was still running rampant world-wide at that time. Plus, the North even today is just as racist as the South, in some ways moreso because at least down here blacks and whites actually interact on a significant cultural level. Seriously, if Rawhamburger's paranoid dreams came true and a new Civil War did pop off today, you'd be floored by how many blacks would choose to roll with the South. Honestly, if a piece of cloth on its own hurts your feelings, then you need to thicken your skin already. And yes, today there are just as many blacks caught up in the prison system than there were enslaved back in the day...and that's on the US flag, not the Rebel flag. And I repeat...TODAY.
There was 250+ years of slavery in America.
For 80+ of those years the United States flew a flag while the entire country, north and south, benefitted from slave labor.
The Confederate Flag flew for 4 of those years, and while it represented the people who wanted to maintain slavery, it also represents the exact time in our history when the American people said enough is enough and the good in our country overcame the evil....that flag marked the beginning of the end of slavery at a time when even President Lincoln was willing to continue to allow slavery to exist. The Stars & Bars represents the losing fight to keep slavery....the flag(s) from the previous 75 years represented a unified country that had no problem with slavery, or at least passively allowed it to exist.
The Confederate flag is a flag of losers which always amused me when Charlie Daniels sang "The South's Gonna Do It Again"...whatcha gonna do Chuck, get your ass kicked AGAIN!?
There won't be a new Civil War. Most of the Southern states depend on the blue states for financial support, so they won't bite the hand that feeds them.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/the_red_state_ripoff.html
So much for Southern values and being opposed to the fed and all.
Huh??
His comparison of the two maps is puzzling....
The states in the South vote Republican and get good return on their tax dollars.(Except for Texas and Florida)
The states in the North vote Democrat and get poor return on their tax dollars.
Am I understanding that correctly?
People wearing Skynyrd shirts I avoid just because they usually smell bad.
Rock here's a little something you can write to your local representative about in Tejas. Texas still hates gay people
The link is just an email address??
No.
The states that claim to be against big government and federal government suck the hardest at the federal tit because they're just kidding about what they're against.
We here up North don't mind helping out our red state brethren that lack the ability to care for themselves. That's what being a Union is all about.
Your father's friend is certainly entitled to be offended by anything he wants, but he is, in this case, quite wrong. The Iron Cross was the symbol of the German army until 1918, when it was retired at the end of World War I. The swastika was the primary symbol of the Nazi party and the German army under Hitler, with the Iron Cross remaining as an honorary medal, similar to the American army's Purple Heart or Medal of Honor.
He is conflating symbols from different eras of German history, much like the kid in my high school who worked himself up into a righteous lather and called me a Nazi one day because I was wearing an army/navy store-purchased East German officer's shirt circa 1960. People are welcome to their opinions of course, but if you're going to go around scolding others, you should really make sure you know what the fuck you're talking about.
"The famous custom car designer Ed "Big Daddy" Roth sold various "surfer accessories" in the 1960s that were based on WW 2 German items, like his "surfer's helmet" that is a plastic copy of a German helmet and he also manufactured his own Surfer's Cross. By 1966 Roth claimed to have sold 51,800 crosses and "that Hitler did a hell of a public relations job for me.""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfer's_cross
"Adolf Hitler restored the Iron Cross in 1939 as a German decoration (rather than Prussian as in earlier versions), continuing the tradition of issuing it in various grades. Legally it is based on the enactment (Reichsgesetzblatt I S. 1573[4]) of 1 September 1939 Verordnung ??ber die Erneuerung des Eisernen Kreuzes (Regulation for the Re-introduction of the Iron Cross). The Iron Cross of the Second World War was divided into three main series of decorations with an intermediate category, the Knight's Cross, instituted between the lowest, the Iron Cross, and the highest, the Grand Cross. The Knight's Cross replaced the Prussian Pour le M??rite or "Blue Max". Hitler did not care for the Pour le M??rite, as it was a Prussian order that could be awarded only to officers. The ribbon of the medal (2nd class and Knight's Cross) was different from the earlier Iron Crosses in that the color red was used in addition to the traditional black and white (black and white were the colours of Prussia, while black, white, and red were the colors of Germany). Hitler also created the War Merit Cross as a replacement for the non-combatant version of the Iron Cross. It also appeared on certain Nazi flags (mostly the Third Reich flags) in the upper left corner. The edges were curved, like most original iron crosses."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_cross#Second_World_War
Exactly. It was a military decoration, like the American Purple Heart or Medal of Honor. American servicemen took them home as memorabilia after removing them from dead soldiers' bodies. It's like saying the Purple Heart is a sign of American military aggression. They are tangentially related at best.
I still get the same blank email w/address
But you have no clue what the true meaning is...you are simplifying it to the nth degree by claiming it represents an endorsement of slavery and that's all. Being that you aren't even from the South, none of this is surprising. Obviously, it makes you feel better to look down on folks just because you have self-created an angle to do so.
And how is still wanting to do what you have already been doing for hundreds of years "shameful"? Unfortunate, yes. Something that needed to happen, yes. But shameful? Again, the North was also still holding plenty of slaves at the onset of the Civil War.
If you are actually a fan of the Union and the grandiose of America and all that, fine time for you to get off the divisive bullshit. And some of the other people who have been agreeing with you throughout this thread are career haters of the South, no matter the topic or issue. Y'all don't even see how laughable it is that you are using 150 year old history, long since corrected, to justify your purely emotional bias today.
It's a link to an article on sodomy laws in Texas.
Talking about how Texas should repeal the sodomy law that the supreme court found illegal.
wtf?
are you really such an apologist for the South that you'll fight against the characterization of slavery as 'shameful'??
as for the rest of it, you really need to read a book or something
Lately I have been having trouble getting images to post.
Anyway, if people up north put the 34 star flag of the Union army on their cars and over their state houses, I could see how some people would take offense. Especially those people who have family who were killed by soldiers flying that flag.
The worldwide system of slavery that persisted for thousands of years was indeed shameful.
But to single out the South, the way y'all are doing here, is extremely short-sighted.
Again, this old news has y'all heated. But if someone talks about actual racism today...*crickets*.
I see y'all.
You must read a different Soul Strut than I do.
We got any Canadiens who want to take a stab at it now?
you can think it means pride & whatever
I'll keep thinking it's a banner of redneck ignorance & hate
neither of us would be wrong
It's not like history is a secret that can only be understood by a few people.
URLs cannot read spaces. If there is a space use " " in place of it.
Uhh. damn. nevermind?
Your dissembling about the conditions of blacks in North and South before and after the war is both disturbing and misinformed.