To anyone who thinks, this just happens in wars, I want to say "Fuck You!".
Nice way to support our troops. Tell them you think they are cold blood murders who do it for sport. Fuck you.
* I know that's not you Luck.
This sort of thing is always a risk in wars, no matter how well-intentioned the motives behind them are.
The sad fact is that these particular soldiers do seem to have been coldblooded murderers who did it for sport.
The hunting of innocent civilians for sport may be news to those people who only look at the pictures*.
Or perhaps, it gets more coverage here because we are closer Ft Lewis.
The prosecution of the soldiers involved has been news for months and their crimes have been detailed in prose as gruesome (or more) as the photos.
To anyone who thinks, this just happens in wars, I want to say "Fuck You!".
Nice way to support our troops. Tell them you think they are cold blood murders who do it for sport. Fuck you.
* I know that's not you Luck.
When was the last US war that something like this didn't happen?
The hunting of innocent civilians for sport may be news to those people who only look at the pictures*.
Or perhaps, it gets more coverage here because we are closer Ft Lewis.
The prosecution of the soldiers involved has been news for months and their crimes have been detailed in prose as gruesome (or more) as the photos.
To anyone who thinks, this just happens in wars, I want to say "Fuck You!".
Nice way to support our troops. Tell them you think they are cold blood murders who do it for sport. Fuck you.
* I know that's not you Luck.
When was the last US war that something like this didn't happen?
I suppose it doesn't matter much to you or you'd do your own research.
I don't recall these sorts of things happening during the 1st Iraq war or in Bosnia. Do you?
It's odd how those flying to Obama's support here weren't doing the same thing when the sanctioned/unsanctioned atrocities at Abu Ghraib happened under George W. Bush's watch. There are scattered differences, of course: I believe that Biden is no Chaney, that our President is an intelligent human being that is somewhat caught in a thicket of forces greater than his administration, and also that the latter hasn't yet condoned torture in to the world (one of the last few meaningful promises he hasn't turned his back on to date, even if it wouldn't surprise any of us if evidence was shown that torture at the hands of or sanctioned by the US Government still exists). If nothing else, the fact remains the same: had Obama sped up the withdrawal from this mire of a war, these photos wouldn't have been taken. Our President is Commander-In-Chief, and the blame is his to wear like a mantle.
The fact that these men are being prosecuted will not bring back the lost lives and crushed Afghani families, and it will not quell the recruitment efforts of vile extremist groups that prey on the fear these acts instill. As a humanist, I ask you: if the United States was occupied territory, and three of your family, friends, acquaintances, or even total neighborhood strangers were treated in such a manner by men and women resembling the soldiers posted on your street, what would your honest reaction be? Might it not be swayed to resist such potential horrors, regardless of the consequences? Could then the unthinkable solution become more palpable? There are tens of thousands of good men and women in the United States military - people stressed to the breaking point that have served in an illegal war for many tours past many humane limits - but they will necessarily be tarred with the same brush as these butchers because they wear the same uniform.
Nothing I have said in the previous two paragraphs will be news to any of you, but some fundamental mores bear repeating. Or at least, they must in these parts. I'm not afraid of betraying my intelligence or age by speaking in such a direct manner. I hear the nascent thud of the "collateral damage" drums, and I'm dismayed to hear them echo here.
Additionally: folks picking on LW for spelling errors would be performing a greater service to the community by returning to their Cheeto dust, lint-laden navels, and back-episodes of 24.
It's odd how those flying to Obama's support here weren't doing the same thing when the sanctioned/unsanctioned atrocities at Abu Ghraib happened under George W. Bush's watch. There are scattered differences, of course: I believe that Biden is no Chaney, that our President is an intelligent human being that is somewhat caught in a thicket, and also that the latter hasn't yet condoned torture in to the world (one of the last few meaningful promises he hasn't turned his back on to date, even if it wouldn't surprise any of us if evidence was shown that torture at the hands of or sanctioned by the US Government still exists). If nothing else, the fact remains the same: had Obama sped up the withdrawal from this mire of a war, these photos wouldn't have been taken. Our President is Commander-In-Chief, and the blame is his to wear like a mantle.
The fact that these men are being prosecuted will not bring back the lost lives and crushed Afghani families, and it will not quell the recruitment efforts of vile extremist groups that prey on the fear these acts instill. As a humanist, I ask you: if the United States was occupied territory, and three of your family, friends, acquaintances, or even total neighborhood strangers were treated in such a manner by men and women resembling the soldiers posted on your street, what would your honest reaction be?
It's quite possible that an immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan once Obama became president would have prevented these particular deaths.
They would have been replaced by other deaths, of course.
The phrase "scattered differences" is a rich one. I guess I give Obama this much credit. Instead of pulling out immediately he felt we had a collective obligation to try to make things better before we left. I don't think that's a bad policy. I do think we should have been out by now, but saying we should have pulled out immediately with no regard for the consequences seems silly.
As to your question about occupation - I think I've answered it already. I'm opposed to any occupation of Libya. But I'm not opposed to enforcing a no-fly zone to give the rebels a chance. There's no hypocrisy there. I also supported a no-fly zone to help the Kurds against Saddam in Iraq, back when it mattered.
They would have been replaced by other deaths, of course.
Deaths not commited in the name of this country.
BobDesperado said:
The phrase "scattered differences" is a rich one. I guess I give Obama this much credit. Instead of pulling out immediately he felt we had a collective obligation to try to make things better before we left. I don't think that's a bad policy. I do think we should have been out by now, but saying we should have pulled out immediately with no regard for the consequences seems silly.
I believe as, you do, that an immediate withdrawl would have been a bad choice. That's why I chose my words carefully. An expedited drawdown, rather that a bolstering and further protraction/intraction, was my ideal. This has clearly not been accomplished.
BobDesperado said:
I'm not opposed to enforcing a no-fly zone to give the rebels a chance.
Three days of sustained bombing runs with only a promised end in sight is not "enforcing a no-fly zone." It's engaging in a war.
They would have been replaced by other deaths, of course.
Deaths not commited in the name of this country.
BobDesperado said:
The phrase "scattered differences" is a rich one. I guess I give Obama this much credit. Instead of pulling out immediately he felt we had a collective obligation to try to make things better before we left. I don't think that's a bad policy. I do think we should have been out by now, but saying we should have pulled out immediately with no regard for the consequences seems silly.
I believe as, you do, that an immediate withdrawl would have been a bad choice. That's why I chose my words carefully. An expedited drawdown, rather that a bolstering and further protraction/intraction, was my ideal. This has clearly not been accomplished.
BobDesperado said:
I'm not opposed to enforcing a no-fly zone to give the rebels a chance.
Three days of sustained bombing runs with only a promised end in sight is not "enforcing a no-fly zone." It's engaging in a war.
If you say so.
But let's just say this ends in few months and gets Gaddafi out. Is that a "war"? Really?
In something I read earlier, Obama has launched more cruise missiles than all the other Nobel Peace Prize winners combined. If this was just knocking out planes in the no fly zone or hitting some tanks I would think differently. But 120 missiles in a day is a war IMO.
There are plenty of things going on that are WTF thoughts in my mind with Obama/Biden. Shouldn't guantanamo be shut down by now? Wasn't that a main promise? Torture of Bradly allowed to happen? The administration wanting to make it a felony when streaming media and allow the feds to wire tap their citizens to catch them?
To anyone who thinks, this just happens in wars, I want to say "Fuck You!"
no, fuck you
go chalk up a sidewalk. dick
last time I checked, war was basically an elevated form of murder
as far as Afghanistan goes, the real pathetic thing is that the US taxpayer is funding both sides, one side with our bloated 'defense' budget, the Taliban through protection money & corrupt 'infrastructure investments' etc
You can't change Nature.........and you can't change Humans.......and you definitely can't change Human Nature.
We are basically barbarians......better dressed and more eloquent than the barbarians that ruled 1,000's of years ago.....but barbarians nonetheless.
I don't care if you're American, Chinese, Russian, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc., etc.......you send young men and women out with a mission to kill other humans, regardless of how civilized and educated they are, eventually their base barbaric nature will take over.
Nothing that happens in War should shock you....the ultimate act of taking a life makes all the sideshow events pale in comparison.
If you can wrap your head around taking other human lives multiple times, posing for a photo seems trivial.
I'm not saying it's right or that I support it....but putting it in perspective is a good idea.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
To anyone who thinks, this just happens in wars, I want to say "Fuck You!"
no, fuck you
go chalk up a sidewalk. dick
This. I was moved by your commitment to your humanitarian beliefs and the whole sidewalk chalk thing. Now it turns out it was 100% partisan hackery, you submitted yourself to the party machine as a propaganda tool. Now the party needs you to say that black is white, so you go to bat:
"5 soldiers are being prosectuted" SOLDIERS? PFCs? Like Lindy England? GTFOOHWTBS (and Bradley does want his undies back, Obama fucked him over BTW) We wanted Bush impeached for this
"Things happen in war/This is not a war" So it is illegal? It's necessary? It's an attempted extra judicial killing? GTFOOHWTBS We wanted Bush impeached for this
"Support our troops" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Are you gonna go buy a 6.3L SUV now?
You party line liberals think that everything is cool because you got rid of Bush? Newsflash, the world is starting to hate us more than ever. It is because of all this hypocrisy and side talking on EVERYTHING. You think the rest of the world notices any sort of foreign policy difference depending on who controls the White House or the Legislature? LOL, no.
This is war fought for special interest groups. Those groups being US, UK and French electorate. The talk about a few billion in arms deals is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1.5 billion gallons of oil these 3 countries need EVERY DAY to keep their economies from falling off a cliff. It's all for you Dan, you can rock that eagle with a tear bumper sticker with pride as you support our troops stationed at Virtual Reality command centers dotted around the globe sending Hellfires from drones into God only knows what future war-torn generation of people who already know only the shitty side of globalization.
Maybe it is time to get Goldhagen to write a book about "ordinary Americans" and how they are culturally or socially predisposed to accepting wide scale illegal killing so they can have a 2 car garage. What other explanation can there be for this 180 degree turn from some of our esteemed political posters?
The longer you deny what our extended tour of the Oil Lands is all about, the harder the crash is going to be. The US economy could fall outside the top 5 within 10 years. Imagine that. We will have to use diplomacy to get what we want. We will be fucked.
Done with this. Please send ad hominem insults via PM. When they come from both Rock AND BodDesper, I know I am doing it right!
It is one of the biggest lies of our times.
I hardly believe those who can assist peace want it when there is so much more to gain from waging it...from a distance of course.
It is one of the biggest lies of our times.
I hardly believe those who can assist peace want it when there is so much more to gain from waging it...from a distance of course.
I can't help but think that this statement, made 2,000+ years ago.....and seemingly still being applied today, is a reflection of human nature rather than anything political or time specific.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Done with this. Please send ad hominem insults via PM. When they come from both Rock AND BodDesper, I know I am doing it right!
I have NEVER sent you an insulting, or any PM.......nor will I ever.
To even suggest that I would reveals a lot about you.
Ha, let me explain. The ad hominem attacks ('liar', 'idiot') come from you and Bob, I would prefer them via PM this time. That's my point, Trigger.
Please cut and paste one of these supposed attacks made by me.....I say they don't exist.
Although I did call you a liar when you accused me of posting something which I did not and after I gave you the chance to cut and paste that ficticious statement which of course you couldn't, I did indeed call you a liar....is that "ad hominem"?
I enjoy your posting.....you present a viewpoint that is seldom seen and always recognized by all for what it is.
If we keep blaming our fuckery on human nature then we need to stop elevating ourselves above all other beings due to our gift of reason.
Aristotle's views on human nature and the what "good" they are capable of gave a lot more credit to humans than they have shown themselves worthy of.
I hear you.....I look around and see the disgusting and violent fuckery that goes on outside the boundaries of politics and war in our everyday society and can't find an adequate scapegoat beyond human nature.
What we're capable of vs. what we do is very different.
Theoretically humans are capable of creating Utopia, realistically we're not capable of maintaining it.....not even for a minute.
You party line liberals think that everything is cool because you got rid of Bush? Newsflash, the world is starting to hate us more than ever. It is because of all this hypocrisy and side talking on EVERYTHING. You think the rest of the world notices any sort of foreign policy difference depending on who controls the White House or the Legislature? LOL, no.
This is war fought for special interest groups. Those groups being US, UK and French electorate. The talk about a few billion in arms deals is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1.5 billion gallons of oil these 3 countries need EVERY DAY to keep their economies from falling off a cliff. It's all for you Dan, you can rock that eagle with a tear bumper sticker with pride as you support our troops stationed at Virtual Reality command centers dotted around the globe sending Hellfires from drones into God only knows what future war-torn generation of people who already know only the shitty side of globalization.
Maybe it is time to get Goldhagen to write a book about "ordinary Americans" and how they are culturally or socially predisposed to accepting wide scale illegal killing so they can have a 2 car garage. What other explanation can there be for this 180 degree turn from some of our esteemed political posters?
The longer you deny what our extended tour of the Oil Lands is all about, the harder the crash is going to be. The US economy could fall outside the top 5 within 10 years. Imagine that. We will have to use diplomacy to get what we want. We will be fucked.
So no one has pure motives and countries tend to act in their own self interest to gratify the material demands of their citizens.
Wow, that's some advanced level shit that has never occurred to me. Thanks, Perfessor. Is it okay if I print that out and keep it in my wallet?
Luck:
I agree with what you are saying. But I feel you are missing a distinction.
The difference between the hunting humans for sport incident, is that the soldiers involved were arrested for murder as soon as their superiors found out. They are currently on trial. I agree that there is a failure of leadership when something like this happens. I have no objection taking that failure to the top. But there was no cover up. These soldiers were not acting under orders.
That contrasts sharply with torture under Bush. (Or torture under Obama where he says he knows about and approves of the torture of Bradley.)
To anyone who thinks, this just happens in wars, I want to say "Fuck You!"
no, fuck you
go chalk up a sidewalk. dick
This. I was moved by your commitment to your humanitarian beliefs and the whole sidewalk chalk thing. Now it turns out it was 100% partisan hackery, you submitted yourself to the party machine as a propaganda tool. Now the party needs you to say that black is white, so you go to bat:
"5 soldiers are being prosectuted" SOLDIERS? PFCs? Like Lindy England? GTFOOHWTBS (and Bradley does want his undies back, Obama fucked him over BTW) We wanted Bush impeached for this
"Things happen in war/This is not a war" So it is illegal? It's necessary? It's an attempted extra judicial killing? GTFOOHWTBS We wanted Bush impeached for this
"Support our troops" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Are you gonna go buy a 6.3L SUV now?
You party line liberals think that everything is cool because you got rid of Bush? Newsflash, the world is starting to hate us more than ever. It is because of all this hypocrisy and side talking on EVERYTHING. You think the rest of the world notices any sort of foreign policy difference depending on who controls the White House or the Legislature? LOL, no.
This is war fought for special interest groups. Those groups being US, UK and French electorate. The talk about a few billion in arms deals is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1.5 billion gallons of oil these 3 countries need EVERY DAY to keep their economies from falling off a cliff. It's all for you Dan, you can rock that eagle with a tear bumper sticker with pride as you support our troops stationed at Virtual Reality command centers dotted around the globe sending Hellfires from drones into God only knows what future war-torn generation of people who already know only the shitty side of globalization.
Maybe it is time to get Goldhagen to write a book about "ordinary Americans" and how they are culturally or socially predisposed to accepting wide scale illegal killing so they can have a 2 car garage. What other explanation can there be for this 180 degree turn from some of our esteemed political posters?
The longer you deny what our extended tour of the Oil Lands is all about, the harder the crash is going to be. The US economy could fall outside the top 5 within 10 years. Imagine that. We will have to use diplomacy to get what we want. We will be fucked.
Done with this. Please send ad hominem insults via PM. When they come from both Rock AND BodDesper, I know I am doing it right!
You must have me confused with 2 other posters.
I don't remember your support for the Iraq Names Project which is ongoing and has not changed with the new administration.
From comments you and others have made, I assume people no nothing more about the current atrocities than the photos. Please read up.
I have always supported our troops.
I no longer support the war in Afghanistan, but I did support it when we entered into it (under Bush) and continued to support it until recently. I never supported the war in Iraq, and I certainly don't believe the party line that it is over. I do not support our new war in Libya.
Almost every thing you wrote about me above is false. I have no idea where you get your information.
Comments
Crazy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a no fly zone. But this doesn't feel like what they are making this out to be.
This sort of thing is always a risk in wars, no matter how well-intentioned the motives behind them are.
The sad fact is that these particular soldiers do seem to have been coldblooded murderers who did it for sport.
All these sentences...that fits perfect in the description of the stereotype.
Please dude ..be human. We are all human.". let them..." "our hands.." damn..your sitting at home behind a screen.
introspection..
we need more..
introspection.
When was the last US war that something like this didn't happen?
I suppose it doesn't matter much to you or you'd do your own research.
I don't recall these sorts of things happening during the 1st Iraq war or in Bosnia. Do you?
The fact that these men are being prosecuted will not bring back the lost lives and crushed Afghani families, and it will not quell the recruitment efforts of vile extremist groups that prey on the fear these acts instill. As a humanist, I ask you: if the United States was occupied territory, and three of your family, friends, acquaintances, or even total neighborhood strangers were treated in such a manner by men and women resembling the soldiers posted on your street, what would your honest reaction be? Might it not be swayed to resist such potential horrors, regardless of the consequences? Could then the unthinkable solution become more palpable? There are tens of thousands of good men and women in the United States military - people stressed to the breaking point that have served in an illegal war for many tours past many humane limits - but they will necessarily be tarred with the same brush as these butchers because they wear the same uniform.
Nothing I have said in the previous two paragraphs will be news to any of you, but some fundamental mores bear repeating. Or at least, they must in these parts. I'm not afraid of betraying my intelligence or age by speaking in such a direct manner. I hear the nascent thud of the "collateral damage" drums, and I'm dismayed to hear them echo here.
Additionally: folks picking on LW for spelling errors would be performing a greater service to the community by returning to their Cheeto dust, lint-laden navels, and back-episodes of 24.
It's quite possible that an immediate withdrawal from Afghanistan once Obama became president would have prevented these particular deaths.
They would have been replaced by other deaths, of course.
The phrase "scattered differences" is a rich one. I guess I give Obama this much credit. Instead of pulling out immediately he felt we had a collective obligation to try to make things better before we left. I don't think that's a bad policy. I do think we should have been out by now, but saying we should have pulled out immediately with no regard for the consequences seems silly.
As to your question about occupation - I think I've answered it already. I'm opposed to any occupation of Libya. But I'm not opposed to enforcing a no-fly zone to give the rebels a chance. There's no hypocrisy there. I also supported a no-fly zone to help the Kurds against Saddam in Iraq, back when it mattered.
Deaths not commited in the name of this country.
I believe as, you do, that an immediate withdrawl would have been a bad choice. That's why I chose my words carefully. An expedited drawdown, rather that a bolstering and further protraction/intraction, was my ideal. This has clearly not been accomplished.
Three days of sustained bombing runs with only a promised end in sight is not "enforcing a no-fly zone." It's engaging in a war.
If you say so.
But let's just say this ends in few months and gets Gaddafi out. Is that a "war"? Really?
In something I read earlier, Obama has launched more cruise missiles than all the other Nobel Peace Prize winners combined. If this was just knocking out planes in the no fly zone or hitting some tanks I would think differently. But 120 missiles in a day is a war IMO.
There are plenty of things going on that are WTF thoughts in my mind with Obama/Biden. Shouldn't guantanamo be shut down by now? Wasn't that a main promise? Torture of Bradly allowed to happen? The administration wanting to make it a felony when streaming media and allow the feds to wire tap their citizens to catch them?
no, fuck you
go chalk up a sidewalk. dick
last time I checked, war was basically an elevated form of murder
as far as Afghanistan goes, the real pathetic thing is that the US taxpayer is funding both sides, one side with our bloated 'defense' budget, the Taliban through protection money & corrupt 'infrastructure investments' etc
We are basically barbarians......better dressed and more eloquent than the barbarians that ruled 1,000's of years ago.....but barbarians nonetheless.
I don't care if you're American, Chinese, Russian, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc., etc.......you send young men and women out with a mission to kill other humans, regardless of how civilized and educated they are, eventually their base barbaric nature will take over.
Nothing that happens in War should shock you....the ultimate act of taking a life makes all the sideshow events pale in comparison.
If you can wrap your head around taking other human lives multiple times, posing for a photo seems trivial.
I'm not saying it's right or that I support it....but putting it in perspective is a good idea.
It is only the dead who have seen the end of war.
Plato
b/w
We make war that we may live in peace.
Aristotle
This. I was moved by your commitment to your humanitarian beliefs and the whole sidewalk chalk thing. Now it turns out it was 100% partisan hackery, you submitted yourself to the party machine as a propaganda tool. Now the party needs you to say that black is white, so you go to bat:
"5 soldiers are being prosectuted" SOLDIERS? PFCs? Like Lindy England? GTFOOHWTBS (and Bradley does want his undies back, Obama fucked him over BTW) We wanted Bush impeached for this
"Things happen in war/This is not a war" So it is illegal? It's necessary? It's an attempted extra judicial killing? GTFOOHWTBS We wanted Bush impeached for this
"Support our troops" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Are you gonna go buy a 6.3L SUV now?
You party line liberals think that everything is cool because you got rid of Bush? Newsflash, the world is starting to hate us more than ever. It is because of all this hypocrisy and side talking on EVERYTHING. You think the rest of the world notices any sort of foreign policy difference depending on who controls the White House or the Legislature? LOL, no.
This is war fought for special interest groups. Those groups being US, UK and French electorate. The talk about a few billion in arms deals is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1.5 billion gallons of oil these 3 countries need EVERY DAY to keep their economies from falling off a cliff. It's all for you Dan, you can rock that eagle with a tear bumper sticker with pride as you support our troops stationed at Virtual Reality command centers dotted around the globe sending Hellfires from drones into God only knows what future war-torn generation of people who already know only the shitty side of globalization.
Maybe it is time to get Goldhagen to write a book about "ordinary Americans" and how they are culturally or socially predisposed to accepting wide scale illegal killing so they can have a 2 car garage. What other explanation can there be for this 180 degree turn from some of our esteemed political posters?
The longer you deny what our extended tour of the Oil Lands is all about, the harder the crash is going to be. The US economy could fall outside the top 5 within 10 years. Imagine that. We will have to use diplomacy to get what we want. We will be fucked.
Done with this. Please send ad hominem insults via PM. When they come from both Rock AND BodDesper, I know I am doing it right!
It is one of the biggest lies of our times.
I hardly believe those who can assist peace want it when there is so much more to gain from waging it...from a distance of course.
Yes.
civilian deaths : combatants
I have NEVER sent you an insulting, or any PM.......nor will I ever.
To even suggest that I would reveals a lot about you.
Ha, let me explain. The ad hominem attacks ('liar', 'idiot') come from you and Bob, I would prefer them via PM this time. That's my point, Trigger.
I can't help but think that this statement, made 2,000+ years ago.....and seemingly still being applied today, is a reflection of human nature rather than anything political or time specific.
Please cut and paste one of these supposed attacks made by me.....I say they don't exist.
Although I did call you a liar when you accused me of posting something which I did not and after I gave you the chance to cut and paste that ficticious statement which of course you couldn't, I did indeed call you a liar....is that "ad hominem"?
I enjoy your posting.....you present a viewpoint that is seldom seen and always recognized by all for what it is.
Aristotle's views on human nature and what "good" they are capable of gave a lot more credit to humans than they have shown themselves worthy of.
I hear you.....I look around and see the disgusting and violent fuckery that goes on outside the boundaries of politics and war in our everyday society and can't find an adequate scapegoat beyond human nature.
What we're capable of vs. what we do is very different.
Theoretically humans are capable of creating Utopia, realistically we're not capable of maintaining it.....not even for a minute.
Don't hold your breath waiting.
So no one has pure motives and countries tend to act in their own self interest to gratify the material demands of their citizens.
Wow, that's some advanced level shit that has never occurred to me. Thanks, Perfessor. Is it okay if I print that out and keep it in my wallet?
Yeah. Me neither.
Isn't there, like, a lot of oil in Libya?
I agree with what you are saying. But I feel you are missing a distinction.
The difference between the hunting humans for sport incident, is that the soldiers involved were arrested for murder as soon as their superiors found out. They are currently on trial. I agree that there is a failure of leadership when something like this happens. I have no objection taking that failure to the top. But there was no cover up. These soldiers were not acting under orders.
That contrasts sharply with torture under Bush. (Or torture under Obama where he says he knows about and approves of the torture of Bradley.)
You must have me confused with 2 other posters.
I don't remember your support for the Iraq Names Project which is ongoing and has not changed with the new administration.
From comments you and others have made, I assume people no nothing more about the current atrocities than the photos. Please read up.
I have always supported our troops.
I no longer support the war in Afghanistan, but I did support it when we entered into it (under Bush) and continued to support it until recently. I never supported the war in Iraq, and I certainly don't believe the party line that it is over. I do not support our new war in Libya.
Almost every thing you wrote about me above is false. I have no idea where you get your information.