I don't validate the greatness of their music by them (The Beach Boys) truly being America's band (which they are) or being simply "American", period. Their music is great on its own terms, of that there can be no doubt. However, their very Americaness is something that both informs and is projected by their music in a way that is singularly distinct and influential in informing music listeners the whole world over as to what the essence and spirit of America is, encapsulated and transmitted in the form of two to three minute pop perfections par excellence.
Talk about extraneous, meaningless bullshit.
The Beach Boys capture the "essence and spirit" of America. The "real America," right?
Chuck Berry never could have managed that trick, of course. That's why they stole from him. It was Manifest Destiny or somesuch.
Surf music, like Southern Rock, is a uniquely American genre.......good, bad or indifferent.
So is rock itself. So what?
It still has nothing to do with the "overrated" question.
And there's nothing more "American" about the Beach Boys than the Trashmen or Little Richard or Hasil Adkins or a basically unlimited number of other bands and performers.
Surf music, like Southern Rock, is a uniquely American genre.......good, bad or indifferent.
So is rock itself. So what?
It still has nothing to do with the "overrated" question.
And there's nothing more "American" about the Beach Boys than the Trashmen or Little Richard or Hasil Adkins or a basically unlimited number of other bands and performers.
I don't validate the greatness of their music by them (The Beach Boys) truly being America's band (which they are) or being simply "American", period. Their music is great on its own terms, of that there can be no doubt. However, their very Americaness is something that both informs and is projected by their music in a way that is singularly distinct and influential in informing music listeners the whole world over as to what the essence and spirit of America is, encapsulated and transmitted in the form of two to three minute pop perfections par excellence.
Talk about extraneous, meaningless bullshit.
The Beach Boys capture the "essence and spirit" of America. The "real America," right?
Chuck Berry never could have managed that trick, of course. That's why they stole from him. It was Manifest Destiny or somesuch.
Because The Beach Boys are great does not mean that Chuck Berry isn't great as well (well, at least Chuck's early music is great... can't make much of a case for him being a great human being), but Chuck Berry is not a band, per se. The Beach Boys are most definitely a band (America's band, at that.)
I have to say: this is really one of the better threads *about music* we've had on the Strut in a long ass time and I'm especially fascinated by the strong feelings over debating the Beach Boys.
I could be wrong, but has no one volunteered any of these acts for "overrated" so far?
man, i can't believe how much everyone is feeding the troll (p-dust).
it's hard to jump into this thread after it's gone in so many directions, but just a few thoughts about defining the criteria of overrated (which i think might be way harder than deciding who meets those criteria once you have them):
1) an entity can't just be overrated--it has to be ovverrated BY a certain individual or group. it's too vague to say Van Dyke Parks is overrated--99% of the world has no clue who he is. However, he can be (and, IMO, is) overrated by the rockist critics who sweat him hard.
2) this may seem obvious, but the entity has to be RATED by whoever. it can't just be a person/group saying "I really, really love The Shaggs." the whole idea of a rating to me implies that it's being used to compare one thing vs another.
3) thus, to be in consideration for overrating you have to be placed above competitors that one could argue are superior. example, maybe to say Eric Clapton was overrated as a blue soloist by Group X you would have to be able to argue that Buddy Guy was in fact a better soloist, even though Group X placed him only in 4th place to Clapton's 1st place rating.
4) it's a lot easier to do a rating of some specific quality of an entity--2Pac's MC skills, Mike Love's manliness, the spiciness of an individual pepperoni--than it is to rate them in general (best artist EVAR, your all-time favorite pizza topping dude!); more individual attributes to rate, plus you gotta decide on how to weigh the importance of each attribute.
man, i can't believe how much everyone is feeding the troll (p-dust).
it's hard to jump into this thread after it's gone in so many directions, but just a few thoughts about defining the criteria of overrated (which i think might be way harder than deciding who meets those criteria once you have them):
1) an entity can't just be overrated--it has to be ovverrated BY a certain individual or group. it's too vague to say Van Dyke Parks is overrated--99% of the world has no clue who he is. However, he can be (and, IMO, is) overrated by the rockist critics who sweat him hard.
It's funny how you call me a troll and then discuss Van Dyke Parks, who I brought up. And then you basically agree with me.
Why not just shove that troll crap where it belongs? Unless, of course, that repository is already full.
Surf music, like Southern Rock, is a uniquely American genre.......good, bad or indifferent.
Surf is a uniquely American genre, but I wouldn't put the Beach Boys at the forefront of the movement.
The best surf bands were instrumental, anyway. Most of the surf vocal groups tended to lean on those kleen-kut "barbershop" harmonies too much for my liking...not just the Beach Boys, but the Hondells and Rip Chords, as well (to name two).
Surf music, like Southern Rock, is a uniquely American genre.......good, bad or indifferent.
Surf is a uniquely American genre, but I wouldn't put the Beach Boys at the forefront of the movement.
The best surf bands were instrumental, anyway. Most of the surf vocal groups tended to lean on those kleen-kut "barbershop" harmonies too much for my liking...not just the Beach Boys, but the Hondells and Rip Chords, as well (to name two).
The Australians might be a bit put off by this "uniquely American genre" stuff, but no question surf started in the US.
It wasn't just the barbershop harmonies that were too much for me, but also those horrific matching clothes. It wasn't just the fact that the clothes matched, but how lame the clothes were.
Why do you care? Just use your ignore function if my posts dent your fundament that badly.
.Did someone in the group break up with you? Let it go dude. We get it already.
If you can't see the peanut brittle in all this, I can't help you.
"A Beach Boy killed my father!"
I think Raj mentioned his young nephews digging The Beach Boys somewhere in this thread. I just wanted to mention that I DJed a junior/senior prom back in June and I got a few requests for "Barbara Ann," enough requests to warrant my playing it. I was SHOCKED as the whole dancefloor filled with kids who, moments earlier, were getting down to Soulja Boy and Lady Gaga and now here they were dancing and singing along to a song that came out 30some years before they were born. It was beautiful.
Why do you care? Just use your ignore function if my posts dent your fundament that badly.
.Did someone in the group break up with you? Let it go dude. We get it already.
If you can't see the peanut brittle in all this, I can't help you.
"A Beach Boy killed my father!"
I think Raj mentioned his young nephews digging The Beach Boys somewhere in this thread. I just wanted to mention that I DJed a junior/senior prom back in June and I got a few requests for "Barbara Ann," enough requests to warrant my playing it. I was SHOCKED as the whole dancefloor filled with kids who, moments earlier, were getting down to Soulja Boy and Lady Gaga and now here they were dancing and singing along to a song that came out 30some years before they were born. It was beautiful.
Yes, it is beautiful ('Fun, Fun, Fun' and 'I Get Around' would have also made for cool full-tilt floor-filling frugging action for your receptive teenage crowd) and it just goes to further prove my point about the essential timeless nature and spirit of The Beach Boys' music. Such enthusiasm in this day and age for the music of The Beach Boys by America's youth may pain a perpetually aggrieved America hating/po' faced Howard Zinn-style cartoon leftist like MoePelvicAndJesusDust, but for the rest of us proud Americans/music lovers, such exuberance exhibited by your audience for Hawthorne's finest makes us beam with pride.
Yes, it is beautiful ('Fun, Fun, Fun' and 'I Get Around' would have also made for cool full-tilt floor-filling frugging action for your receptive teenage crowd) and it just goes to further prove my point about the essential timeless nature and spirit of The Beach Boys' music. Such enthusiasm in this day and age for the music of The Beach Boys by America's youth may pain a perpetually aggrieved America hating/po' faced Howard Zinn-style cartoon leftist like MoePelvicAndJesusDust, but for the rest of us proud Americans/music lovers, such exuberance exhibited by your audience for Hawthorne's finest bedwetters makes us beam with pride.
Yes, it is beautiful ('Fun, Fun, Fun' and 'I Get Around' would have also made for cool full-tilt floor-filling frugging action for your receptive teenage crowd) and it just goes to further prove my point about the essential timeless nature and spirit of The Beach Boys' music. Such enthusiasm in this day and age for the music of The Beach Boys by America's youth may pain a perpetually aggrieved America hating/po' faced Howard Zinn-style cartoon leftist like MoePelvicAndJesusDust, but for the rest of us proud Americans/music lovers, such exuberance exhibited by your audience for Hawthorne's finest makes us beam with pride.
As far as Coltrane goes...the idea of asking somebody what their favorite Coltrane song is hilarious to me...as if Coltrane wrote catchy little diddies!
he didn't write but he was excellent at covering other peoples "catchy little diddies". bangers by henry VIII and rodgers and hammerstein in particular.
i can't really understand why he is overrated, miles on the other hand i would cosign. mostly cause my favourite bits of his records are when other people are playing.
As far as Coltrane goes...the idea of asking somebody what their favorite Coltrane song is hilarious to me...as if Coltrane wrote catchy little diddies!
he didn't write but he was excellent at covering other peoples "catchy little diddies". bangers by henry VIII and rodgers and hammerstein in particular.
As far as Coltrane goes...the idea of asking somebody what their favorite Coltrane song is hilarious to me...as if Coltrane wrote catchy little diddies!
he didn't write but he was excellent at covering other peoples "catchy little diddies". bangers by henry VIII and rodgers and hammerstein in particular.
But what are his undisputed floor bangers?
Africa always turns the party out.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
mannybolone said:
I could be wrong, but has no one volunteered any of these acts for "overrated" so far?
Nirvana?
Parliament-Funkadelic?
Are you kidding me?
Neither of those could ever in a gazillion gatherings of internet nerds ever ever ever be even close to being overrated.
I could be wrong, but has no one volunteered any of these acts for "overrated" so far?
Nirvana?
Parliament-Funkadelic?
Are you kidding me?
Neither of those could ever in a gazillion gatherings of internet nerds ever ever ever be even close to being overrated.
If it's the U.S. Nirvana I would agree, as for the U.K. 60's I would tend to say they're slightly underated.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Craig said:
HarveyCanal said:
mannybolone said:
I could be wrong, but has no one volunteered any of these acts for "overrated" so far?
Nirvana?
Parliament-Funkadelic?
Are you kidding me?
Neither of those could ever in a gazillion gatherings of internet nerds ever ever ever be even close to being overrated.
If it's the U.S. Nirvana I would agree, as for the U.K. 60's I would tend to say they're slightly underated.
Snooze...but anyway, what gets me with Nirvana retrospect is that detractors cite how the only reason why Nirvana gets so much acclaim is because Kurdt died young. Umm, I seem to remember people going plenty apeshit over them BEFORE Kurdt passed on. Plus, I've always contended that if Bleach isn't your favorite Nirvana album, then you are doing it wrong.
anyway, what gets me with Nirvana retrospect is that detractors cite how the only reason why Nirvana gets so much acclaim is because Kurdt died young. Umm, I seem to remember people going plenty apeshit over them BEFORE Kurdt passed on.
"Kurdt."
That is one thing I used to see all the time when Kurt Cobain was alive that I do not miss these days: multiple spellings of his name. Like the band, liked the band, but the pretentious way he kept misspelling his first name had to GO.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
pickwick33 said:
anyway, what gets me with Nirvana retrospect is that detractors cite how the only reason why Nirvana gets so much acclaim is because Kurdt died young. Umm, I seem to remember people going plenty apeshit over them BEFORE Kurdt passed on.
"Kurdt."
That is one thing I used to see all the time when Kurt Cobain was alive that I do not miss these days: multiple spellings of his name. Like the band, liked the band, but the pretentious way he kept misspelling his first name had to GO.
That's how it was spelled on Bleach.
And yesh, what a thing to get your panties in a wad over.
anyway, what gets me with Nirvana retrospect is that detractors cite how the only reason why Nirvana gets so much acclaim is because Kurdt died young. Umm, I seem to remember people going plenty apeshit over them BEFORE Kurdt passed on.
"Kurdt."
That is one thing I used to see all the time when Kurt Cobain was alive that I do not miss these days: multiple spellings of his name. Like the band, liked the band, but the pretentious way he kept misspelling his first name had to GO.
That's how it was spelled on Bleach.
And yesh, what a thing to get your panties in a wad over.
I know, I know, and I agree with you...but when the man was around, seemed like every week it was ALWAYS something: Kurdt Kobain, Curdt Cobaine, Kert Cobayne, Curtis Ko-bein, etc. (okay, I made those last 3 up, but still)
Comments
Talk about extraneous, meaningless bullshit.
The Beach Boys capture the "essence and spirit" of America. The "real America," right?
Chuck Berry never could have managed that trick, of course. That's why they stole from him. It was Manifest Destiny or somesuch.
So is rock itself. So what?
It still has nothing to do with the "overrated" question.
And there's nothing more "American" about the Beach Boys than the Trashmen or Little Richard or Hasil Adkins or a basically unlimited number of other bands and performers.
The Beach Boys/White = Real American
Ike Turner/Black = Kinda American
Because The Beach Boys are great does not mean that Chuck Berry isn't great as well (well, at least Chuck's early music is great... can't make much of a case for him being a great human being), but Chuck Berry is not a band, per se. The Beach Boys are most definitely a band (America's band, at that.)
I could be wrong, but has no one volunteered any of these acts for "overrated" so far?
Nirvana?
Parliament-Funkadelic?
Nirvana - Overrated
Parliament-Funkadelic - Underrated
No idea what this means.
Probably not much.
it's hard to jump into this thread after it's gone in so many directions, but just a few thoughts about defining the criteria of overrated (which i think might be way harder than deciding who meets those criteria once you have them):
1) an entity can't just be overrated--it has to be ovverrated BY a certain individual or group. it's too vague to say Van Dyke Parks is overrated--99% of the world has no clue who he is. However, he can be (and, IMO, is) overrated by the rockist critics who sweat him hard.
2) this may seem obvious, but the entity has to be RATED by whoever. it can't just be a person/group saying "I really, really love The Shaggs." the whole idea of a rating to me implies that it's being used to compare one thing vs another.
3) thus, to be in consideration for overrating you have to be placed above competitors that one could argue are superior. example, maybe to say Eric Clapton was overrated as a blue soloist by Group X you would have to be able to argue that Buddy Guy was in fact a better soloist, even though Group X placed him only in 4th place to Clapton's 1st place rating.
4) it's a lot easier to do a rating of some specific quality of an entity--2Pac's MC skills, Mike Love's manliness, the spiciness of an individual pepperoni--than it is to rate them in general (best artist EVAR, your all-time favorite pizza topping dude!); more individual attributes to rate, plus you gotta decide on how to weigh the importance of each attribute.
It's funny how you call me a troll and then discuss Van Dyke Parks, who I brought up. And then you basically agree with me.
Why not just shove that troll crap where it belongs? Unless, of course, that repository is already full.
Eventually.
Why do you care? Just use your ignore function if my posts dent your fundament that badly.
Surf is a uniquely American genre, but I wouldn't put the Beach Boys at the forefront of the movement.
The best surf bands were instrumental, anyway. Most of the surf vocal groups tended to lean on those kleen-kut "barbershop" harmonies too much for my liking...not just the Beach Boys, but the Hondells and Rip Chords, as well (to name two).
The Australians might be a bit put off by this "uniquely American genre" stuff, but no question surf started in the US.
It wasn't just the barbershop harmonies that were too much for me, but also those horrific matching clothes. It wasn't just the fact that the clothes matched, but how lame the clothes were.
.Did someone in the group break up with you? Let it go dude. We get it already.
If you can't see the peanut brittle in all this, I can't help you.
"A Beach Boy killed my father!"
I think Raj mentioned his young nephews digging The Beach Boys somewhere in this thread. I just wanted to mention that I DJed a junior/senior prom back in June and I got a few requests for "Barbara Ann," enough requests to warrant my playing it. I was SHOCKED as the whole dancefloor filled with kids who, moments earlier, were getting down to Soulja Boy and Lady Gaga and now here they were dancing and singing along to a song that came out 30some years before they were born. It was beautiful.
Yes, it is beautiful ('Fun, Fun, Fun' and 'I Get Around' would have also made for cool full-tilt floor-filling frugging action for your receptive teenage crowd) and it just goes to further prove my point about the essential timeless nature and spirit of The Beach Boys' music. Such enthusiasm in this day and age for the music of The Beach Boys by America's youth may pain a perpetually aggrieved America hating/po' faced Howard Zinn-style cartoon leftist like MoePelvicAndJesusDust, but for the rest of us proud Americans/music lovers, such exuberance exhibited by your audience for Hawthorne's finest makes us beam with pride.
Stars and Stripes and Beach Boys forever!
Fixed it.
he didn't write but he was excellent at covering other peoples "catchy little diddies". bangers by henry VIII and rodgers and hammerstein in particular.
i can't really understand why he is overrated, miles on the other hand i would cosign. mostly cause my favourite bits of his records are when other people are playing.
But what are his undisputed floor bangers?
Africa always turns the party out.
Are you kidding me?
Neither of those could ever in a gazillion gatherings of internet nerds ever ever ever be even close to being overrated.
If it's the U.S. Nirvana I would agree, as for the U.K. 60's I would tend to say they're slightly underated.
Snooze...but anyway, what gets me with Nirvana retrospect is that detractors cite how the only reason why Nirvana gets so much acclaim is because Kurdt died young. Umm, I seem to remember people going plenty apeshit over them BEFORE Kurdt passed on. Plus, I've always contended that if Bleach isn't your favorite Nirvana album, then you are doing it wrong.
"Kurdt."
That is one thing I used to see all the time when Kurt Cobain was alive that I do not miss these days: multiple spellings of his name. Like the band, liked the band, but the pretentious way he kept misspelling his first name had to GO.
That's how it was spelled on Bleach.
And yesh, what a thing to get your panties in a wad over.
I know, I know, and I agree with you...but when the man was around, seemed like every week it was ALWAYS something: Kurdt Kobain, Curdt Cobaine, Kert Cobayne, Curtis Ko-bein, etc. (okay, I made those last 3 up, but still)