'The problems and friction in the French team are down to a split over one man: Yoann Gourcuff.
Gourcuff comes from a privileged family. He is smart and he is respectful - but he is also still a shy little boy. In his spare time he listens to music, watches films and plays his video game systems. He is, in his own words, a little nerdy.
In a French squad that places more value on how much money you have in your bank account, and what girl is on your arm, Gourcuff doesn't fit.
One incident occurred shortly before the World Cup. Franck Ribery and Sidney Govou had organised a night out at well known gentleman's club in Paris. Several players, including Gourcuff, decided to stay home. When Ribery heard about this he immediately confronted Gourcuff and asked 'does your mother not allow you to go, you homosexual slur'
This is one of many incidents.
Ribery is the main instigator in the bullying, however he is far from alone. On the pitch, Gourcuff plays within himself. Scared because he fears the verbal retribution he will receive after the match from his tormentors.
In the squad, Gourcuff can count on only 4 real allies. His best friend Hugo Lloris, his teammate Jeremy Toulalan, elder statesmen Thierry Henry and captain and the glue that holds the team very loosely together, Patrice Evra.
When Raymond Domonech bowed to player pressure and dropped Gourcuff for France's second group match, that was the catalyst for the situation in which we now find ourselves.
Reports of groups hardly talking to each other soon surfaced, however, most notable were the French media suggestions that playmaker Yoann Gourcuff was isolated and suffering extreme verbal and even physical bullying at the hands of Franck Ribery.
"We're not all the best of friends, that's normal, but hopefully that does not translate on to the pitch," midfielder Jeremy Toulalan, a close friend of Gourcuff, said when asked about those reports.
"For instance, when I'm playing with Yoann, I'm not going to pass him the ball more just because we get on well,"
Just Fontaine, who scored a record 13 goals for France at the 1958 World Cup, was damning in his verdict on Ribery.
"Ribery? One day the mistake was made to say he was the team's brains and since, he has believed it. He is an arrogant man. He has a mood and an anger within him that is extremely unpleasant and disruptive" '
For some reason, I do feel sorry for the ref. It's not just heavy pressure on the players.
GTFOHWTBS
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Nice to see there are referees who won't humour Brazil when they indulge in dirty, cynical play (which they often do), even if the commentators continue to turn a blind eye to it (which they almost always do).
Nice to see there are referees who won't humour Brazil when they indulge in dirty, cynical play (which they often do), even if the commentators continue to turn a blind eye to it (which they almost always do).
Brazil were definitely trying it on, but the Kaka sending off was a joke. Keita runs into him then falls down clutching his face? And the referee didn't even see it?
And since it looks like Ivory Coast will have to rely on Brazil beating Portugal in the last game it seems stupid to cheat, at the end of a game that has clearly been lost, in order to get a player who would clearly have started that match sent off.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Kaka elbowed him in the chest off the ball, but that's OK, because he's Brazilian and he's a great player.
New Zealand is in celebration, the faces on the Italians, disbelief. If we put up a respectable showing against Paraguay I will be over the moon. Imagine making the next round though, that would be huge. People lost a lot of money betting on Italy to win it.
'The problems and friction in the French team are down to a split over one man: Yoann Gourcuff.
Gourcuff comes from a privileged family. He is smart and he is respectful - but he is also still a shy little boy. In his spare time he listens to music, watches films and plays his video game systems. He is, in his own words, a little nerdy.
In a French squad that places more value on how much money you have in your bank account, and what girl is on your arm, Gourcuff doesn't fit.
One incident occurred shortly before the World Cup. Franck Ribery and Sidney Govou had organised a night out at well known gentleman's club in Paris. Several players, including Gourcuff, decided to stay home. When Ribery heard about this he immediately confronted Gourcuff and asked 'does your mother not allow you to go, you homosexual slur'
This is one of many incidents.
Ribery is the main instigator in the bullying, however he is far from alone. On the pitch, Gourcuff plays within himself. Scared because he fears the verbal retribution he will receive after the match from his tormentors.
In the squad, Gourcuff can count on only 4 real allies. His best friend Hugo Lloris, his teammate Jeremy Toulalan, elder statesmen Thierry Henry and captain and the glue that holds the team very loosely together, Patrice Evra.
When Raymond Domonech bowed to player pressure and dropped Gourcuff for France's second group match, that was the catalyst for the situation in which we now find ourselves.
Reports of groups hardly talking to each other soon surfaced, however, most notable were the French media suggestions that playmaker Yoann Gourcuff was isolated and suffering extreme verbal and even physical bullying at the hands of Franck Ribery.
"We're not all the best of friends, that's normal, but hopefully that does not translate on to the pitch," midfielder Jeremy Toulalan, a close friend of Gourcuff, said when asked about those reports.
"For instance, when I'm playing with Yoann, I'm not going to pass him the ball more just because we get on well,"
Just Fontaine, who scored a record 13 goals for France at the 1958 World Cup, was damning in his verdict on Ribery.
"Ribery? One day the mistake was made to say he was the team's brains and since, he has believed it. He is an arrogant man. He has a mood and an anger within him that is extremely unpleasant and disruptive" '
Bet Henry wishes he never handled now
That is insane. I'm glad Henry is with the nerd. I became a lifetime Henry fan when he put out those "stop hate" Nikes...
Nobody's going to look come out of this looking good, though...shut up and play!
"Well, he certainly didn't hit him in the face..." Phew, that's a relief, eh?
If you whack someone off the ball and get caught, too bad.
We must have been watching a different game. CIV was making all kinds of unnecessary dangerous tackles in the end. The Kader flop was ridiculous. Brotherman was still laying on the ground after several minutes. My grandmother hits harder than that.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
DrWu said:
We must have been watching a different game.
You saw a game where Kaka didn't elbow Keita in the chest, then..?
My point is this - for all their undoubted talent, a number of South American nations are frequently criticised for playing a dirty, cynical game. You rarely hear Brazil being spoken of in those terms, because the press and the pundits routinely turn a blind eye to their worst transgressions. They can be (and very often are) as snide and cynical as they come - and it's been this way since the 70s - but time and time again they get a pass on the grounds of services to The Beautiful Game. Every time somebody like me suggests that Brazil are beneficiaries of this sort of one-eyed, kid-gloves treatment in the media, there's always someone who wants to make excuses for them.
During the first half I was talking to a friend about the Brasil effect - every time there was a question of error, Brasil seemed to get the benefit of the doubt. The first obvious one was the Brasil left back Michel Bastos, tried to control a pass near the touch line, but he let it go off (marginally). He pushed the ball back over the line, looked over and realised the linesman hadn't seen it or wasn't going to flag for a throw-in, so continued playing. There were other similar incidents, and this was before Fabiano touched the ball with his arm twice in the build-up to the second goal - I don't hear any Thierry Henry style 'cheating-bastard' hatt going on though... probably something to do with the amazing shot for the first :face_melt:
Ivory Coast looked very competent until they got to the final third of the pitch, and that was where the real difference lay. Where as Brasil start to pass better the closer to goal they get, most teams become nervous and either choose the wrong pass, or hastily shoot from distance.
The Kaka incident was harsh, but whether or not that guy flopped to the floor holding his face in simulation, Kaka still dug his elbow into the guy - there was intent, just as I think the slow-mo replay show's that Ozzie's Harry Kewel moved his arm towards the ball to stop a goal, Kaka moves his elbow towards the guy's ribs.
Ivory Coast haven't done themselves any favors though, as Elano (one of Brasil's better players) could be missing with a leg injury, Kaka will be suspended, and group rivals Portugal may fancy a result now that could eliminate Drogba & co.
Which reminds me, with all of the talk about Kaka, I thought Drogba's header was the pick of the bunch. Well-timed run onto an accurate but floating pass, and he managed to generate enough power and accuracy to beat the keeper.
Brasil were the better side, but yes, the goal was handball. And the elbow was deliberate. I would have carded Kaka and Keita for the amateur-dramatics. But I can't argue with the result. No massive lovv for Brasil because when Elano and Robbie were at City they were slackers par excellence - just there for the money. But they love playing for the national side, they have fun.
Exactly the opposite effect to the England shirt, it would appear.
I'm not sure that the media is that uncritical when it comes to Brasil; I heard enough criticism of their current setup and style during the commentary last night and I don't think anyone has forgotten or forgiven Rivaldo's theatrics, even if match officials still occasionally buy that kind of cheating.
But with that said, and irrespective of other incidents during the game, the Kaka red card was a joke. Kaita runs into him with no real speed, gets a slight poke in the chest and then collapses holding his face in agony. It was ridiculous and embarrasing to watch. Once he realised he was going to be sent off Kaka should have given him a proper kick in the face.
You saw a game where Kaka didn't elbow Keita in the chest, then..?
My point is this - for all their undoubted talent, a number of South American nations are frequently criticised for playing a dirty, cynical game. You rarely hear Brazil being spoken of in those terms, because the press and the pundits routinely turn a blind eye to their worst transgressions. They can be (and very often are) as snide and cynical as they come - and it's been this way since the 70s - but time and time again they get a pass on the grounds of services to The Beautiful Game. Every time somebody like me suggests that Brazil are beneficiaries of this sort of one-eyed, kid-gloves treatment in the media, there's always someone who wants to make excuses for them.
The commentators were deservedly hard on Lucio last night for the pole axed way he fell constantly. I agree they get an easier ride, but the Kaka second was a joke. I do worse than that on the tube in the morning, someone not looking where they are going moving at speed to you, instinctivly the elbows go up, more from protection than malice.
... the Kaka second was a joke. I do worse than that on the tube in the morning, someone not looking where they are going moving at speed to you, instinctivly the elbows go up, more from protection than malice.
srsly though, i agree, it was an instinctual reaction, the guy ran into him, he was looking away.
kaka has been playing shitty so i am happy
but this brazil squad looks stronger than other top suads except netherlands
they have shown great passing and finishing
elano missing will hurt but kaka won't
alves is an acceptable replacement and i'd like to see a yungin like nilmar get a chance to replace kaka
Ronaldo got better and better as that game progressed. Less greedy, more team play, and he even pinged the cross-bar. I wonder what odds you could get on him NOT scoring.
talk about a crap team in every way imaginable. i can only hope that my squad players (bar Gallas) are not taking the lead on any of these dumb theatrics.
other than that, already geeked for Wednesday. I like controlling our destiny with a win, but this list below makes it kind of scary how open the group is
GROUP C
USA advances with:
(a) Win versus Algeria on Wednesday
(b) Tie and Slovenia-England tie IF England does not outscore USA by 2+ goals
(c) Tie and England loss
Slovenia advances with:
(a) Win or tie versus England
(b) Loss AND USA tie vs Algeria
(c) Loss and Algeria win as long as Algeria doesn't make up tiebreakers*
England advances with:
(a) Win versus Slovenia
(b) Tie AND USA-Algeria tie AND outscore USA by 3 goals
Algeria advances with:
(a) Win versus USA AND Slovenia win/tie versus England
(b) Win versus USA AND Slovenia loss versus England AND makes up tiebreakers on Slovenia
Note: If the U.S. draws with Algeria and England draws with Slovenia, and England scores exactly two more goals than the U.S., the U.S. and England would be even on all tiebreakers for second place. The tie would be broken by drawing lots ... aka, a coin flip.
And given that it has happened before in 1990, i would be so interested if England & the US had to draw lots. Of course the UK would likely wage war on the US if they got outdone in a coin flip, where as the damage to the US would be a guaranteed withdrawal of possible soccer fans, as Americans would never ever ever accept a coin flip as the most appropriate way to settle a sporting tie.
England don't deserve to advance. They've played some of the worst football of the entire tournament. They know this, and it's probably adding more pressure.
0-0 or 0-1 to Slovenia I reckon, England out of the World Cup having scored just once in three matches, and hopefully no more reliance on the same players Sven picked in 2001.
I'm next level geeked on my geeked-ness already...and the [del]game[/del] match is[del] two days [/del] 1/7th a fortnight (right? that's how you talk?) away.
I hope England gets through too. You guys are necessary for the anal-ysis.
Watching most games in a language I don't understand has turned out to be way better for me. I have to make up my own mind as to whether calls are good. 2nd Fabiano goal was handball for sure, but I'm not so sure my Yanqui amigos on the teevee over on ABC called it that way. I showed an apartment yesterday and used the World Cup as my conversation topic with dudes (chicks always get the "parks and shops and restaurants in the area" schtick). Amurkan dudes came with the basic shit, content to call all soccer players pussiey fagets or whatever, and mention "but my next favorite team is Brazil." The dude that ended up getting the apartment, Spanish, rolled his eyes at Fabiano's handball, and mentioned the troubles of the French. Deeper, yahurd?
It always seems to me that when Brazil looses, they stop cheering for the most part. When the Portuguese lose, they start cheering for Brazil.
The thing I don't get about England is the fact that they played fairly well all through the qualifiers. But it's like they are a totally different team at the world cup... Like they need a serious wake up call.
You saw a game where Kaka didn't elbow Keita in the chest, then..?
My point is this - for all their undoubted talent, a number of South American nations are frequently criticised for playing a dirty, cynical game. You rarely hear Brazil being spoken of in those terms, because the press and the pundits routinely turn a blind eye to their worst transgressions. They can be (and very often are) as snide and cynical as they come - and it's been this way since the 70s - but time and time again they get a pass on the grounds of services to The Beautiful Game. Every time somebody like me suggests that Brazil are beneficiaries of this sort of one-eyed, kid-gloves treatment in the media, there's always someone who wants to make excuses for them.
i think we simply disagree about what happened. No harm no foul. I certainly didn't see anyone other than Lucio playing cheap ball. Frankly, they didn't need to CIV wasn't good enough to make it an issue.
I also disagree that Kaka didn't play well. He assisted on two of the goals. I'd say that was a good days work.
Comments
good work, new zealand.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/football/06/20/france.players.strike.anelka.domenech/index.html?hpt=T1
'The problems and friction in the French team are down to a split over one man: Yoann Gourcuff.
Gourcuff comes from a privileged family. He is smart and he is respectful - but he is also still a shy little boy. In his spare time he listens to music, watches films and plays his video game systems. He is, in his own words, a little nerdy.
In a French squad that places more value on how much money you have in your bank account, and what girl is on your arm, Gourcuff doesn't fit.
One incident occurred shortly before the World Cup. Franck Ribery and Sidney Govou had organised a night out at well known gentleman's club in Paris. Several players, including Gourcuff, decided to stay home. When Ribery heard about this he immediately confronted Gourcuff and asked 'does your mother not allow you to go, you homosexual slur'
This is one of many incidents.
Ribery is the main instigator in the bullying, however he is far from alone. On the pitch, Gourcuff plays within himself. Scared because he fears the verbal retribution he will receive after the match from his tormentors.
In the squad, Gourcuff can count on only 4 real allies. His best friend Hugo Lloris, his teammate Jeremy Toulalan, elder statesmen Thierry Henry and captain and the glue that holds the team very loosely together, Patrice Evra.
When Raymond Domonech bowed to player pressure and dropped Gourcuff for France's second group match, that was the catalyst for the situation in which we now find ourselves.
Reports of groups hardly talking to each other soon surfaced, however, most notable were the French media suggestions that playmaker Yoann Gourcuff was isolated and suffering extreme verbal and even physical bullying at the hands of Franck Ribery.
"We're not all the best of friends, that's normal, but hopefully that does not translate on to the pitch," midfielder Jeremy Toulalan, a close friend of Gourcuff, said when asked about those reports.
"For instance, when I'm playing with Yoann, I'm not going to pass him the ball more just because we get on well,"
Just Fontaine, who scored a record 13 goals for France at the 1958 World Cup, was damning in his verdict on Ribery.
"Ribery? One day the mistake was made to say he was the team's brains and since, he has believed it. He is an arrogant man. He has a mood and an anger within him that is extremely unpleasant and disruptive" '
Bet Henry wishes he never handled now
GTFOHWTBS
Brazil were definitely trying it on, but the Kaka sending off was a joke. Keita runs into him then falls down clutching his face? And the referee didn't even see it?
And since it looks like Ivory Coast will have to rely on Brazil beating Portugal in the last game it seems stupid to cheat, at the end of a game that has clearly been lost, in order to get a player who would clearly have started that match sent off.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/matches/match_29
"Well, he certainly didn't hit him in the face..." Phew, that's a relief, eh?
If you whack someone off the ball and get caught, too bad.
That is insane. I'm glad Henry is with the nerd. I became a lifetime Henry fan when he put out those "stop hate" Nikes...
Nobody's going to look come out of this looking good, though...shut up and play!
We must have been watching a different game. CIV was making all kinds of unnecessary dangerous tackles in the end. The Kader flop was ridiculous. Brotherman was still laying on the ground after several minutes. My grandmother hits harder than that.
You saw a game where Kaka didn't elbow Keita in the chest, then..?
My point is this - for all their undoubted talent, a number of South American nations are frequently criticised for playing a dirty, cynical game. You rarely hear Brazil being spoken of in those terms, because the press and the pundits routinely turn a blind eye to their worst transgressions. They can be (and very often are) as snide and cynical as they come - and it's been this way since the 70s - but time and time again they get a pass on the grounds of services to The Beautiful Game. Every time somebody like me suggests that Brazil are beneficiaries of this sort of one-eyed, kid-gloves treatment in the media, there's always someone who wants to make excuses for them.
Ivory Coast looked very competent until they got to the final third of the pitch, and that was where the real difference lay. Where as Brasil start to pass better the closer to goal they get, most teams become nervous and either choose the wrong pass, or hastily shoot from distance.
The Kaka incident was harsh, but whether or not that guy flopped to the floor holding his face in simulation, Kaka still dug his elbow into the guy - there was intent, just as I think the slow-mo replay show's that Ozzie's Harry Kewel moved his arm towards the ball to stop a goal, Kaka moves his elbow towards the guy's ribs.
Ivory Coast haven't done themselves any favors though, as Elano (one of Brasil's better players) could be missing with a leg injury, Kaka will be suspended, and group rivals Portugal may fancy a result now that could eliminate Drogba & co.
Which reminds me, with all of the talk about Kaka, I thought Drogba's header was the pick of the bunch. Well-timed run onto an accurate but floating pass, and he managed to generate enough power and accuracy to beat the keeper.
Exactly the opposite effect to the England shirt, it would appear.
But with that said, and irrespective of other incidents during the game, the Kaka red card was a joke. Kaita runs into him with no real speed, gets a slight poke in the chest and then collapses holding his face in agony. It was ridiculous and embarrasing to watch. Once he realised he was going to be sent off Kaka should have given him a proper kick in the face.
The commentators were deservedly hard on Lucio last night for the pole axed way he fell constantly. I agree they get an easier ride, but the Kaka second was a joke. I do worse than that on the tube in the morning, someone not looking where they are going moving at speed to you, instinctivly the elbows go up, more from protection than malice.
srsly though, i agree, it was an instinctual reaction, the guy ran into him, he was looking away.
Fuckin football pansies.
but this brazil squad looks stronger than other top suads except netherlands
they have shown great passing and finishing
elano missing will hurt but kaka won't
alves is an acceptable replacement and i'd like to see a yungin like nilmar get a chance to replace kaka
Will Kim Il Jong allow that match to be screened?
Ronaldo got better and better as that game progressed. Less greedy, more team play, and he even pinged the cross-bar. I wonder what odds you could get on him NOT scoring.
why would you?
talk about a crap team in every way imaginable. i can only hope that my squad players (bar Gallas) are not taking the lead on any of these dumb theatrics.
other than that, already geeked for Wednesday. I like controlling our destiny with a win, but this list below makes it kind of scary how open the group is
And given that it has happened before in 1990, i would be so interested if England & the US had to draw lots. Of course the UK would likely wage war on the US if they got outdone in a coin flip, where as the damage to the US would be a guaranteed withdrawal of possible soccer fans, as Americans would never ever ever accept a coin flip as the most appropriate way to settle a sporting tie.
0-0 or 0-1 to Slovenia I reckon, England out of the World Cup having scored just once in three matches, and hopefully no more reliance on the same players Sven picked in 2001.
I hope England gets through too. You guys are necessary for the anal-ysis.
Watching most games in a language I don't understand has turned out to be way better for me. I have to make up my own mind as to whether calls are good. 2nd Fabiano goal was handball for sure, but I'm not so sure my Yanqui amigos on the teevee over on ABC called it that way. I showed an apartment yesterday and used the World Cup as my conversation topic with dudes (chicks always get the "parks and shops and restaurants in the area" schtick). Amurkan dudes came with the basic shit, content to call all soccer players pussiey fagets or whatever, and mention "but my next favorite team is Brazil." The dude that ended up getting the apartment, Spanish, rolled his eyes at Fabiano's handball, and mentioned the troubles of the French. Deeper, yahurd?
would love to see portugal/chile in the next rounds
Let's see if spain still got it
Brazil/portugal=EPIC
Go Brazil!
It always seems to me that when Brazil looses, they stop cheering for the most part. When the Portuguese lose, they start cheering for Brazil.
The thing I don't get about England is the fact that they played fairly well all through the qualifiers. But it's like they are a totally different team at the world cup... Like they need a serious wake up call.
i think we simply disagree about what happened. No harm no foul. I certainly didn't see anyone other than Lucio playing cheap ball. Frankly, they didn't need to CIV wasn't good enough to make it an issue.
I also disagree that Kaka didn't play well. He assisted on two of the goals. I'd say that was a good days work.