Rawkus's marketing genius was in fucking nailing a very narrow demographic: college age and younger (mostly) white kids who were uncomfortable with the shifts that were then occurring in rap music [/b] and who found the illusion of belonging to a movement particularly appealing. They never had the transdemographic appeal that you claim they did.
As a former backpacker and lover of many-a-release on rawkus I think I can speak for others when I say we viewed the movement of hip-hop at that time as the commercialism (i.e. selling out) of hip-hop. Although there had always been talk about money and riches in hip-hop the late 90's brought a whole new level of that that got to be obnoxious to many fans who appreciated lyracism that dealt with creativity.
Hip-hop seemed to be marketed in a much more top 40 way in the late 90's than ever before. Around this time you couldn't help but be subject to constant radio airplay from such talentless "producers-turned-rappers" like Jermaine Dupri & Sean Combs. As a backlash/ alternative backpackers (i.e. whitekids who grew up on hip-hop and didn't like the current commercial trend)found themselves going back to the music of the late 80's and early 90's for more thought provoking, witty and interesting lyrics. Rawkus seemed to know this and brought that sound from the underground (wake up show/ stretch & bobbito, mixtapes etc.) The sound itself wasn't bad, nor was the lyracism. It really was just a case of Rawkus being out at the right time.
Anyways this is just one eyewitnesses observation of it all. I still don't understand why there is so much hatred towards the label or its fanbase. Almost like someone struck a nerve or something.
i was joking. pm me i can send you recommendations of about 100+ rap albums that are empircally better than black on both sides. i find it hard to believe you've heard less than 10 of them. but maybe i overestimate you.
The fact that theres 4 pages of discussion on this label must mean that Rawkus made some impact.
Rawk basically kept the mid 90s east coast indie / underground sound alive repackaged with nice artwork and good distribution ~ it was more accessible to suburban kids who didn't like the "Bad Boy" sound.
my fave Rawkus joints are:
Mos 1st 12" Fortified Live 12" Shabaam - "sound clash" Simon Says G Rap - "1st Nigga" (premo rmx) Spinna - Rock Menelik - 7XL Black Star - pete rock rmx Big L LP
are we talking before or after El-P went insane? I can do End to End Burners... Linda Tripp... but when he started getting into his bad trip instrumental shit I was gone.
They never had the transdemographic appeal that you claim they did.
That may be true for the US but here in Jamaica,the singles "Simon Says" and "Ms Fat Booty" got a lot of "forwards" from various venues(dancehall sessions to dancehall concerts)that they were played at.I remember Bounty Killer brought Pharoahe Monch down to perform for his birthday bash which was a large outdoor pay session event,and the response was a lot of people cheering[/b] and some people looking on in awe[/b] over his stage presence.This is much different in contrast to what happened to BIGGIE[/b] when he performed at STING(Jamaica's largest outdoor concert)that's held here every "Boxing day".He was bottled [/b] off stage and he was in a wheelchair[/b] at the time,picture that DOGGIE!!. . and he's part Jamaican right? One would've thought his "thug lyrics" would go over well with the ghetto patrons[/b]
i didn't catch this whole argument, but someone just got owned!
the only record i own on rawkus is "simon says". i have a nice ragga cut of that as well, it has peter tosh smoking weed on the label... i'd like to own Ms Fat Booty, that Hi and Mighty "hands on experience" song about beating off and maybe one or two other things. i was never really that into that label, but their are def. PLENTY of non-whitey backpackers who were into that shit at it's peak..
in nyc, "simon says" was pretty inescapable for a bit, and "ms fat booty", too... (ghostface remix is HOT)...
Rawkus's marketing genius was in fucking nailing a very narrow demographic: college age and younger (mostly) white kids who were uncomfortable with the shifts that were then occurring in rap music [/b] and who found the illusion of belonging to a movement particularly appealing. They never had the transdemographic appeal that you claim they did.
As a former backpacker and lover of many-a-release on rawkus I think I can speak for others when I say we viewed the movement of hip-hop at that time as the commercialism (i.e. selling out) of hip-hop. Although there had always been talk about money and riches in hip-hop the late 90's brought a whole new level of that that got to be obnoxious to many fans who appreciated lyracism that dealt with creativity.
Hip-hop seemed to be marketed in a much more top 40 way in the late 90's than ever before. Around this time you couldn't help but be subject to constant radio airplay from such talentless "producers-turned-rappers" like Jermaine Dupri & Sean Combs. As a backlash/ alternative backpackers (i.e. whitekids who grew up on hip-hop and didn't like the current commercial trend)found themselves going back to the music of the late 80's and early 90's for more thought provoking, witty and interesting lyrics. Rawkus seemed to know this and brought that sound from the underground (wake up show/ stretch & bobbito, mixtapes etc.) The sound itself wasn't bad, nor was the lyracism. It really was just a case of Rawkus being out at the right time.
Anyways this is just one eyewitnesses observation of it all. I still don't understand why there is so much hatred towards the label or its fanbase. Almost like someone struck a nerve or something.
hold the phone! Did you just call Jermaine Dupri "talentless"?!!!!?!?!?!?!?
I used to like Rawkus a lot. OK this is maybe not hip hop classic, lot of nerdery too... but when DJs back in the days threw "Simon Says" on a big bad sound system, it was RAW!
And sorry but I don't understand the love and passion for Bad Boy or No Limit shit some old school/knowledgeable people of this forum seems to have. Maybe Bad Boy released some dancefloor stuff, and in a way their production are more efficient on everyday audience but come on.. you can't defend that horrible Diddy Sting cover, all that horrible flow dropped by Ma$e in countless MTV clip, all that No-DJ-in-live-show, all the bad taste Pixel No limit cover that was all about hip hop on this era. Rawkus bring some FINESSE and ESTHETIC in the game at that time and I thanked them for that.
I think it's pretty comical how much Rawkus defenders are up in arms because a few guys have downplayed their overall impact.
Nobody's saying there weren't a couple good records on Rawkus... which is what the Rawkus supporters are saying too. Couple good records. Honestly I don't know why yall treat a label with a couple good records as the second coming. That, more than anything, says to me that yall don't have a solid knowledge of hip-hop music over the past twenty years.
To me, this thread reads like this:
A: Rawkus was the fire label son!
B: Well, Rawkus was in the right place at the right time, good marketing, couple good records, but uh...
A: HOW DARE YOU! RAWKUS IS THE RETURN OF THE REAL HIP-HOP! BLACK ON BOTH SIDES OWNS MY KIDS!
B: Well, just saying, I mean this was a label that was more popular with college kids than anything...
A: WHATS WRONG WITH COLLEGE KIDS??? I'M A COLLEGE KID! COLLEGE KIDS BUY HIP-HOP, RESPECT THAT SON! WE SAVED HIP-HOP WHEN THE IGNORANT MASSES WERE BUYING NO LIMIT AND BAD BOY!
Yeah this thread got crazy from the last time i looked at it. i have some good memories of Rawkus from high school and college. Are there a few Rawkus 12in I regret buying? Yes. Are there some that i still enjoy listening to? Yes. I dont think rawkus changed the game, as much as they sort of held on to that early 90's vibe, and sold it a decade later. From what I understand they started out with every intention of being a punk label, but hip hop worked out for them because for a lot of high school and college aged white kids into hip hop wanted the punk astetic. IE Independent and Rebelious I grew up listening to shit on lookout, epitaph, and discord. After a while I got tired of it, but I always appreciated the independent spirit of it. I realize that rawkus wasnt really an independent, but they sold that astetic and they sold it well. I bought it. Do I think they can sell it again? I doubt it.
How would one go about objectively judging/quantifying the overall "impact" of a given record label? Total album sales?
That does have something to do with it, and in that Rawkus was a flop. The biggest commercial record they had failed to support a gold album, and the "gold" albums they did claim were shipping #s not actual sales.
But other forms of "impact" are less cut & dried - for instance, did Rawkus change a particular method of recording/promoting/marketing/selling records? Did they introduce a new sound that has stuck around after their demise? Have they influenced the way other labels operate?
I think that the impact Rawkus left is mainly the first, ie selling records. They have influenced how many labels brand and market. They didn't really impact the indie game because they weren't really an indie - no true indie label can even play on the same level.
While I think they did introduce a new sound, I don't think that sound has become one that is successful/lasting.
i think there are just two distinct sides here arguing.
one side that likes the Rawkus label releases and remember those tunes at the club or on college radio and maybe even on commercial mixshows in some areas that had major impact sales due to radio.
the other side saw the label for what it was. it was all based on marketing and driven sales behind acts that a lightweight name in the game and were able to be pushed up into the light of more than just college radio djs and your typical neighborhood street nigga.
both sides are right in their own views.
i remember when we were promoting the label we were told to hit up the colleges and where white/urban kids were congregating... thats the truth. they wanted us to do clubs that played rap music but to give flyers and promos to non-black kids... thats the truth. these things werent weird to us because this happens all the time.
as the rap director of this magazine i was given kick-backs and special treats in the mail for helping to write or push an artist.
thats the industry at that time... so, forgive me cause im high, but thats why i see both sides views and somewhat agree with both.
i didnt care for rawkus as a whole. they had two or three tunes that i liked but thats about it.
"black on both sides" was a big hit for people who didnt know rap music that well and didnt know UTD and where mos came from. i know cats who still rock that and swear by it. it really isnt that stellar of a record... at all. this is coming from a dude whos been listening to rap music since 1980. then again thats just my opinion...
anyway... thats what i was thinking about when i was outside smoking...
I always took it that one of the things that made Rawkus different and gave it it's roll as an important factor in the history of hip hop was the way they seemed to take signed & non signed artists (In the early years) and give them a way to push the ever so expanding universe of hip hop. For some strange reason I dislike the whole term college/backpacker... Maybe it gets this because the label was started by college kids. But that can't be it, since the greatest indie hip hop label of all time (IMO) was started out of a university dorm room by a black & white guy.
As a former buyer for a major Toronto record store, I can personally account for hundreds of Rawkus sales. To a wide mix of clientele.
Do I believe that Rawkus is even in the top ten of important hip hop labels? No Do I believe that Rawkus had a positive and significant roll in the history of hip hop? Yes Do I believe that some are debating not so much because of Rawkus itself, but because of personal beefs? Yes Should we continue to read and enjoy the thread? Yes, it's entertaining.
Side note: WTF is up with classical versions of R&B tracks (Or any type music)? I just heard New Edition done on some mozart steez
in the eyes of those who say that rawkus made an impact on hip-hop history, what exactly did they do to create that impact that will live on in the minds of the true hip-hop historians?
mostly im just confused as to why those that think this, think this...
and actually anyone can answer this if you have the right insight into these thoughts...
...and for this time im not being a smart-ass im just trying to understand a little better from a buyers perspective and not someone who worked in the industry or for the actual record label.
in the eyes of those who say that rawkus made an impact on hip-hop history, what exactly did they do to create that impact that will live on in the minds of the true hip-hop historians?
mostly im just confused as to why those that think this, think this...
and actually anyone can answer this if you have the right insight into these thoughts...
...and for this time im not being a smart-ass im just trying to understand a little better from a buyers perspective and not someone who worked in the industry or for the actual record label.
thanks!
It had little to no musical/lyrical/production impact. It did have an impact on who bought rap music, why they bought it, and the image those people chose to cultivate. They weren't solely responsible, but I think they're easily identifiable w/ a certain percentage of rap fans. Nobody knows whether it'll be lasting or not.
Rawkus will be remembered as THE trend-setting label of the mid 90ies indie-rap boom because that's what they were. No matter how shady they acted they paved the way for labels like Stones Throw, Def Jux, Rhyme Sayers, Soulspazm and so on.
JP & Zvi,
why don't you mentioned that you guys worked there too? I remember the big Rawkus thread we had a year or two ago where you brought a lot of interesting insight about the inner runnings of Rawkus on the table.
Rawkus will be remembered as THE trend-setting label of the mid 90ies indie-rap boom because that's what they were. No matter how shady they acted they paved the way for labels like Stones Throw, Def Jux, Rhyme Sayers, Soulspazm and so on.
Ok that is their contribution. The marketing etc.. side of things. NOT THE MUSIC!(not directed towards you olski)
Rawkus will be remembered as THE trend-setting label of the mid 90ies indie-rap boom because that's what they were. No matter how shady they acted they paved the way for labels like Stones Throw, Def Jux, Rhyme Sayers, Soulspazm and so on.
Ok that is their contribution. The marketing etc.. side of things. NOT THE MUSIC!(not directed towards you olski)
What was the "TREND"?
Big label w/ an underground/indy image? Retro "golden age" revivalisim? Jedi order against shinysuit radio hiphop? I'm just wondering.
Rawkus's marketing genius was in fucking nailing a very narrow demographic: college age and younger (mostly) white kids who were uncomfortable with the shifts that were then occurring in rap music [/b] and who found the illusion of belonging to a movement particularly appealing. They never had the transdemographic appeal that you claim they did.
As a former backpacker and lover of many-a-release on rawkus I think I can speak for others when I say we viewed the movement of hip-hop at that time as the commercialism (i.e. selling out) of hip-hop. Although there had always been talk about money and riches in hip-hop the late 90's brought a whole new level of that that got to be obnoxious to many fans who appreciated lyracism that dealt with creativity.
Hip-hop seemed to be marketed in a much more top 40 way in the late 90's than ever before. Around this time you couldn't help but be subject to constant radio airplay from such talentless "producers-turned-rappers" like Jermaine Dupri & Sean Combs. As a backlash/ alternative backpackers (i.e. whitekids who grew up on hip-hop and didn't like the current commercial trend)found themselves going back to the music of the late 80's and early 90's for more thought provoking, witty and interesting lyrics. Rawkus seemed to know this and brought that sound from the underground (wake up show/ stretch & bobbito, mixtapes etc.) The sound itself wasn't bad, nor was the lyracism. It really was just a case of Rawkus being out at the right time.
Anyways this is just one eyewitnesses observation of it all. I still don't understand why there is so much hatred towards the label or its fanbase. Almost like someone struck a nerve or something.
hold the phone! Did you just call Jermaine Dupri "talentless"?!!!!?!?!?!?!?
I don't pretend to have a super-acute understanding of the racial make-up of all the folks that post here, but the impression I'm left with is that--while no one seems to like Rawkus quite as much as some white listeners--no one seems to dislike Rawkus as much as some other white listeners. In my mind, the one side's case is crippled by delusion regarding the label's target audience and overall impact, and the other side's case is crippled by overcompensatory vitriol, vitriol that--while ostensibly (and maybe even actually) rooted in "the reality of the situation"--seems to also have at least one foot squarely in some kind of self-loathing refusal to join any club that would have them as a member. I mean, I won't pretend to have done extensive research on the matter, but apart from black artists who feel they either got jerked by their dealings with Rawkus and/or dissed by Rawkus's refusal to deal with them, I'm not sure that I've read/heard any evidence that the black hip-hop community feels too strongly either way. The overwhelming lion's share of Rawkus-related discourse (shudder) seems to be either white folks defending hip-hop for white folks or white folks defending hip-hop against white folks (though I'm quite sure neither side would see it that way).
I guess my question behind all this is: It's been pretty well documented why Rawkus was/is loved almost exclusively by white folks, but why is it hated almost exclusively by white folks, too?
And this isn't directed at anyone in particular; like jinx said:
im just trying to understand
....
And regarding "La Ciudad...Respirando": One time a few years back, my man Vincent hit on some headwrapped young miss with a good three minutes of patter about how she seemed so "regal," so "peaceful," looked like "sanctuary," looked like she might be "a safe place," and, finally, looked "like heaven." Then he closed the deal by leaning in and whispering: "Yo--is there a heaven for a gang[/b]ster?"
I wish to god I was lying.
So, you know, I would argue that not everyone in those days was overlooking No Limit as a potent indie force.
I don't pretend to have a super-acute understanding of the racial make-up of all the folks that post here, but the impression I'm left with is that--while no one seems to like Rawkus quite as much as some white listeners--no one seems to dislike Rawkus as much as some other white listeners. In my mind, the one side's case is crippled by delusion regarding the label's target audience and overall impact, and the other side's case is crippled by overcompensatory vitriol, vitriol that--while ostensibly (and maybe even actually) rooted in "the reality of the situation"--seems to also have at least one foot squarely in some kind of self-loathing refusal to join any club that would have them as a member. I mean, I won't pretend to have done extensive research on the matter, but apart from black artists who feel they either got jerked by their dealings with Rawkus and/or dissed by Rawkus's refusal to deal with them, I'm not sure that I've read/heard any evidence that the black hip-hop community feels too strongly either way. The overwhelming lion's share of Rawkus-related discourse (shudder) seems to be either white folks defending hip-hop for white folks or white folks defending hip-hop against white folks (though I'm quite sure neither side would see it that way).
dude this is like every thought in my brain on this subject perfectly summed up!
Noone is hating on Rawkus. White dudes are not hating on it. We are saying that it did not have a lasting impact outside of WHITE COLLEGE AGED KIDS.
No hate there. This is soo cut and dry that it is frustrating to see people think WAY to much about it.
Rawkus had some good records. Noone is arguing over that.
The Rawkus Catalog did not/and will not have a lasting impact on rap.(only white college kids argue that it did, and are the same ones that say "thugs" and "the streets" enjoyed it as well. when they were nowhere near thugs or streets)
why don't you mentioned that you guys worked there too? I remember the big Rawkus thread we had a year or two ago where you brought a lot of interesting insight about the inner runnings of Rawkus on the table.
Well, I never worked there. I think Zvi has spoken for himself...
I did go up there from time to time, but nothing I could say here is any different than what has been written about the label in print, at this point.
I mean, honestly, in therms of "inner runnings" I don't think it was much different than how majors run/ran. The important thing was that small labels at the time really didn't play on the same field... so Rawkus was much more successful.
I agree that the "trendsetting indie label of the late 90s" will inevitably be them.... when you ask more traditionalist hip-hop guys. I think there are millions of people, and whole regions, that would talk about No Limit, Suavehouse, Sic Wid It, Young Black Brotha, Rap-A-Lot, etc before they even thought of Rawkus, and in terms of indie record labels historically those labels are far more important, business-wise.
I don't pretend to have a super-acute understanding of the racial make-up of all the folks that post here, but the impression I'm left with is that--while no one seems to like Rawkus quite as much as some white listeners--no one seems to dislike Rawkus as much as some other white listeners. In my mind, the one side's case is crippled by delusion regarding the label's target audience and overall impact, and the other side's case is crippled by overcompensatory vitriol, vitriol that--while ostensibly (and maybe even actually) rooted in "the reality of the situation"--seems to also have at least one foot squarely in some kind of self-loathing refusal to join any club that would have them as a member.
But who's really hatting like that?
I'll admit to having referred to a number of Rawkus 12"s as "crap," but I don't think that there's been a label in the history of hip-hop with more than three releases that I wouldn't make the same observation about.. i.e., that they issued some crap.
Me, Jonny and the rest of the thread's ostensible hatters have all acknowledged liking some of the stuff Rawkus put out. And nobody's saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad, only that it rendered the music less important than those who would claim the label was rap's salvation seem to believe it was/is.
Comments
with roots in the SMG
home of Jelly Bellies
As a former backpacker and lover of many-a-release on rawkus I think I can speak for others when I say we viewed the movement of hip-hop at that time as the commercialism (i.e. selling out) of hip-hop. Although there had always been talk about money and riches in hip-hop the late 90's brought a whole new level of that that got to be obnoxious to many fans who appreciated lyracism that dealt with creativity.
Hip-hop seemed to be marketed in a much more top 40 way in the late 90's than ever before. Around this time you couldn't help but be subject to constant radio airplay from such talentless "producers-turned-rappers" like Jermaine Dupri & Sean Combs. As a backlash/ alternative backpackers (i.e. whitekids who grew up on hip-hop and didn't like the current commercial trend)found themselves going back to the music of the late 80's and early 90's for more thought provoking, witty and interesting lyrics. Rawkus seemed to know this and brought that sound from the underground (wake up show/ stretch & bobbito, mixtapes etc.) The sound itself wasn't bad, nor was the lyracism. It really was just a case of Rawkus being out at the right time.
Anyways this is just one eyewitnesses observation of it all. I still don't understand why there is so much hatred towards the label or its fanbase. Almost like someone struck a nerve or something.
i was joking. pm me i can send you recommendations of about 100+ rap albums that are empircally better than black on both sides. i find it hard to believe you've heard less than 10 of them. but maybe i overestimate you.
Rawk basically kept the mid 90s east coast indie / underground sound alive repackaged with nice artwork and good distribution ~ it was more accessible to suburban kids who didn't like the "Bad Boy" sound.
my fave Rawkus joints are:
Mos 1st 12"
Fortified Live 12"
Shabaam - "sound clash"
Simon Says
G Rap - "1st Nigga" (premo rmx)
Spinna - Rock
Menelik - 7XL
Black Star - pete rock rmx
Big L LP
was never into that Co Flow shit really....
RD
Not necessarily. Have you seen the TTLab thread?
are we talking before or after El-P went insane? I can do End to End Burners... Linda Tripp... but when he started getting into his bad trip instrumental shit I was gone.
I would just kinda like to say that I remember that I kinda enjoyed soundbombing 2.
I also like the hi tek and kweli record. Hi tek has always been dope. damm.
i didn't catch this whole argument, but someone just got owned!
the only record i own on rawkus is "simon says". i have a nice ragga cut of that as well, it has peter tosh smoking weed on the label... i'd like to own Ms Fat Booty, that Hi and Mighty "hands on experience" song about beating off and maybe one or two other things. i was never really that into that label, but their are def. PLENTY of non-whitey backpackers who were into that shit at it's peak..
in nyc, "simon says" was pretty inescapable for a bit, and "ms fat booty", too... (ghostface remix is HOT)...
hold the phone! Did you just call Jermaine Dupri "talentless"?!!!!?!?!?!?!?
And sorry but I don't understand the love and passion for Bad Boy or No Limit shit some old school/knowledgeable people of this forum seems to have.
Maybe Bad Boy released some dancefloor stuff, and in a way their production are more efficient on everyday audience but come on..
you can't defend that horrible Diddy Sting cover, all that horrible flow dropped by Ma$e in countless MTV clip, all that No-DJ-in-live-show, all the bad taste Pixel No limit cover that was all about hip hop on this era. Rawkus bring some FINESSE and ESTHETIC in the game at that time and I thanked them for that.
YOU COULD GET SHOT FOR THAT SHIT! ROSCOES!!
- spidey
Nobody's saying there weren't a couple good records on Rawkus... which is what the Rawkus supporters are saying too. Couple good records. Honestly I don't know why yall treat a label with a couple good records as the second coming. That, more than anything, says to me that yall don't have a solid knowledge of hip-hop music over the past twenty years.
To me, this thread reads like this:
A: Rawkus was the fire label son!
B: Well, Rawkus was in the right place at the right time, good marketing, couple good records, but uh...
A: HOW DARE YOU! RAWKUS IS THE RETURN OF THE REAL HIP-HOP! BLACK ON BOTH SIDES OWNS MY KIDS!
B: Well, just saying, I mean this was a label that was more popular with college kids than anything...
A: WHATS WRONG WITH COLLEGE KIDS??? I'M A COLLEGE KID! COLLEGE KIDS BUY HIP-HOP, RESPECT THAT SON! WE SAVED HIP-HOP WHEN THE IGNORANT MASSES WERE BUYING NO LIMIT AND BAD BOY!
B: uhhh....
That does have something to do with it, and in that Rawkus was a flop. The biggest commercial record they had failed to support a gold album, and the "gold" albums they did claim were shipping #s not actual sales.
But other forms of "impact" are less cut & dried - for instance, did Rawkus change a particular method of recording/promoting/marketing/selling records? Did they introduce a new sound that has stuck around after their demise? Have they influenced the way other labels operate?
I think that the impact Rawkus left is mainly the first, ie selling records. They have influenced how many labels brand and market. They didn't really impact the indie game because they weren't really an indie - no true indie label can even play on the same level.
While I think they did introduce a new sound, I don't think that sound has become one that is successful/lasting.
i think there are just two distinct sides here arguing.
one side that likes the Rawkus label releases and remember those tunes at the club or on college radio and maybe even on commercial mixshows in some areas that had major impact sales due to radio.
the other side saw the label for what it was. it was all based on marketing and driven sales behind acts that a lightweight name in the game and were able to be pushed up into the light of more than just college radio djs and your typical neighborhood street nigga.
both sides are right in their own views.
i remember when we were promoting the label we were told to hit up the colleges and where white/urban kids were congregating... thats the truth. they wanted us to do clubs that played rap music but to give flyers and promos to non-black kids... thats the truth. these things werent weird to us because this happens all the time.
as the rap director of this magazine i was given kick-backs and special treats in the mail for helping to write or push an artist.
thats the industry at that time... so, forgive me cause im high, but thats why i see both sides views and somewhat agree with both.
i didnt care for rawkus as a whole. they had two or three tunes that i liked but thats about it.
"black on both sides" was a big hit for people who didnt know rap music that well and didnt know UTD and where mos came from. i know cats who still rock that and swear by it. it really isnt that stellar of a record... at all. this is coming from a dude whos been listening to rap music since 1980. then again thats just my opinion...
anyway... thats what i was thinking about when i was outside smoking...
At 7:00 AM in the morning?
hi dr tanya!
yeah...
but now im drinking coffee so im feeling kinda good...
As a former buyer for a major Toronto record store, I can personally account for hundreds of Rawkus sales. To a wide mix of clientele.
Do I believe that Rawkus is even in the top ten of important hip hop labels? No
Do I believe that Rawkus had a positive and significant roll in the history of hip hop? Yes
Do I believe that some are debating not so much because of Rawkus itself, but because of personal beefs? Yes
Should we continue to read and enjoy the thread? Yes, it's entertaining.
Side note: WTF is up with classical versions of R&B tracks (Or any type music)? I just heard New Edition done on some mozart steez
in the eyes of those who say that rawkus made an impact on hip-hop history, what exactly did they do to create that impact that will live on in the minds of the true hip-hop historians?
mostly im just confused as to why those that think this, think this...
and actually anyone can answer this if you have the right insight into these thoughts...
...and for this time im not being a smart-ass im just trying to understand a little better from a buyers perspective and not someone who worked in the industry or for the actual record label.
thanks!
It had little to no musical/lyrical/production impact. It did have an impact on who bought rap music, why they bought it, and the image those people chose to cultivate. They weren't solely responsible, but I think they're easily identifiable w/ a certain percentage of rap fans. Nobody knows whether it'll be lasting or not.
JP & Zvi,
why don't you mentioned that you guys worked there too? I remember the big Rawkus thread we had a year or two ago where you brought a lot of interesting insight about the inner runnings of Rawkus on the table.
Ok that is their contribution. The marketing etc.. side of things. NOT THE MUSIC!(not directed towards you olski)
What was the "TREND"?
Big label w/ an underground/indy image? Retro "golden age" revivalisim? Jedi order against shinysuit radio hiphop? I'm just wondering.
as a rapper YES![/b]
not every man is a jack of all trades
I guess my question behind all this is: It's been pretty well documented why Rawkus was/is loved almost exclusively by white folks, but why is it hated almost exclusively by white folks, too?
And this isn't directed at anyone in particular; like jinx said:
....
And regarding "La Ciudad...Respirando": One time a few years back, my man Vincent hit on some headwrapped young miss with a good three minutes of patter about how she seemed so "regal," so "peaceful," looked like "sanctuary," looked like she might be "a safe place," and, finally, looked "like heaven." Then he closed the deal by leaning in and whispering: "Yo--is there a heaven for a gang[/b]ster?"
I wish to god I was lying.
So, you know, I would argue that not everyone in those days was overlooking No Limit as a potent indie force.
dude this is like every thought in my brain on this subject perfectly summed up!
Noone is hating on Rawkus. White dudes are not hating on it. We are saying that it did not have a lasting impact outside of WHITE COLLEGE AGED KIDS.
No hate there. This is soo cut and dry that it is frustrating to see people think WAY to much about it.
Rawkus had some good records. Noone is arguing over that.
The Rawkus Catalog did not/and will not have a lasting impact on rap.(only white college kids argue that it did, and are the same ones that say "thugs" and "the streets" enjoyed it as well. when they were nowhere near thugs or streets)
The argument is basically this:
Influential labels: Def Jam, Bad Boy, No limit
Non-Influential Labels: Rawkus.
Well, I never worked there. I think Zvi has spoken for himself...
I did go up there from time to time, but nothing I could say here is any different than what has been written about the label in print, at this point.
I mean, honestly, in therms of "inner runnings" I don't think it was much different than how majors run/ran. The important thing was that small labels at the time really didn't play on the same field... so Rawkus was much more successful.
I agree that the "trendsetting indie label of the late 90s" will inevitably be them.... when you ask more traditionalist hip-hop guys. I think there are millions of people, and whole regions, that would talk about No Limit, Suavehouse, Sic Wid It, Young Black Brotha, Rap-A-Lot, etc before they even thought of Rawkus, and in terms of indie record labels historically those labels are far more important, business-wise.
But who's really hatting like that?
I'll admit to having referred to a number of Rawkus 12"s as "crap," but I don't think that there's been a label in the history of hip-hop with more than three releases that I wouldn't make the same observation about.. i.e., that they issued some crap.
Me, Jonny and the rest of the thread's ostensible hatters have all acknowledged liking some of the stuff Rawkus put out. And nobody's saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad, only that it rendered the music less important than those who would claim the label was rap's salvation seem to believe it was/is.