I think there are millions of people, and whole regions, that would talk about No Limit, Suavehouse, Sic Wid It, Young Black Brotha, Rap-A-Lot, etc before they even thought of Rawkus, and in terms of indie record labels historically those labels are far more important, business-wise.
Agreed, but how many people on this board here own a Master P record and how many buy records that lean towards the Mos Def / Kweli / KRS / Kool G Rap / Monch / Ghostface / Skillz school of rap ?
I think there are millions of people, and whole regions, that would talk about No Limit, Suavehouse, Sic Wid It, Young Black Brotha, Rap-A-Lot, etc before they even thought of Rawkus, and in terms of indie record labels historically those labels are far more important, business-wise.
Agreed, but how many people on this board here own a Master P record and how many buy records that lean towards the Mos Def / Kweli / KRS / Kool G Rap / Monch / Ghostface / Skillz school of rap ?
OLSKI:
SOULSTRUT SHOULD NEVER BE A BAROMETER.
2). You mentioned SoulSpazm as a bigger indie, explain.
This post is great - I love it here on SS..... As far as Rawkus, to me it put out some decent stuff and if you wanna talk demographics all I'm gonna say is Simon Says was used in Charlie's Angels (take that how ever you want) - here's my list
Likes: -Reflection Eternal - Album (To me, Rawkus' best release) - That shit even had Rick James on it - c'mon now. -Mos Def - Univesal Magnetic / If you can huh, you can hear it 12" -Reflection Eternal - Fortified Life 12" -Dilated Peoples "Sound Bombin" (Bangin' - I heard Evidence playing the instrumental of this in FatBeats (LA) some years back when it was on Vermont - BTW, isn't the sample from the Bar-Kays?). -Pharoah Monch "The Light" (Diamond killed the beat)
Overall Dislikes (One or two tracks we cool but the rest sucked): -BlackStar LP - to me, on of the most over-rated albums ever (I will give it up for respiration tho - damn!). -Mos Def - Black on Both Sides -Lyricist Lounge 1 & 2 -Company Flow (all of it) -Everything else they put out
I think there are millions of people, and whole regions, that would talk about No Limit, Suavehouse, Sic Wid It, Young Black Brotha, Rap-A-Lot, etc before they even thought of Rawkus, and in terms of indie record labels historically those labels are far more important, business-wise.
Agreed, but how many people on this board here own a Master P record and how many buy records that lean towards the Mos Def / Kweli / KRS / Kool G Rap / Monch / Ghostface / Skillz school of rap ?
OLSKI:
SOULSTRUT SHOULD NEVER BE A BAROMETER.
2). You mentioned SoulSpazm as a bigger indie, explain.
But this is SS and everybody's talking about what he likes and what not. And it is a barometer for many members.
I didn't mentioned SoulSpazm as a bigger indie. What i was trying to say is that Rawkus had and impact on many indie labels that came after, big or small.
Me, Jonny and the rest of the thread's ostensible hatters have all acknowledged liking some of the stuff Rawkus put out. And nobody's saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad, only that it rendered the music less important than those who would claim the label was rap's salvation seem to believe it was/is.
Well, like I said, that wasn't directed at anybody in particular, and I should have been clearer: I was speaking of the wider perception of Rawkus, not just that evinced in this thread.
One time, I got in trouble with a then-current girlfriend because I was expressing--strongly and at some length--all kinds of retroactive exasperation with an ex-girlfriend; "You know, if you can still get that upset about her, I can only think that on some level she still matters to you." And she was right, of course. The fact that this thread (for example) is now on the far side of Page 5, with as much of that length due to the cons as to the pros, makes me think that The Rawkus Issue--if not necessarily Rawkus itself--remains pretty important, even (especially?) to the detractors. And although you may not be "saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad," I'm sure you're aware that plenty of folks say exactly that, and that the audience in question and the critics of said audience are almost invariably very, uh, demographically similar. And that's the part that has me curious: Why doesn't it ever seem to be black folks bending over backwards to dissuade Rawkus's fans of the label's importance? I mean, maybe there are in fact instances of this (whether in print or elsewhere), but I certainly haven't come across them.
I can't keep up with this thread and also get anything done at work.
thoughts in no particular order:
in the eyes of those who say that rawkus made an impact on hip-hop history, what exactly did they do to create that impact that will live on in the minds of the true hip-hop historians?
-Rawkus was a more important indie than No Limit, Suave House, etc because it appealed to people who didn't previously like rap. I'm not downplaying the importance and influence of all the down south and west coast indies that went platinum in their home state. but I'd venture to say there weren't a whole lot of people who didn't like rap, then they heard "Ghetto D" and were like "oh shit, now I get it!" Rawkus made hardcore fans out of casual observers, the kids who owned "Low End Theory," "Illadelph Halflife" and maybe "Labcabincalifornia," but thought rap in general was too violent and misogynistic for their sensibilities. "Soundbombing II" opened the door to rap for a whole bunch of people. it created millions (?) of fans. whether or not that was a good look is up for debate.
likes/dislikes:
-"7XL" is possibly the greatest song to come out on Rawkus. -"Fantastic Damage" was better than "Funcrusher Plus." dust off the candelabra. -B1's "Verbal Affairs" with that huge Large Pro beat!!! -L-Fudge's "What If!?!!" except for Kweli's pro-life bullshit. -yeah pretty much anything DJ Spinna touched.
Do I believe that Rawkus is even in the top ten of important hip hop labels? No
-what are the 10 most important hip-hop labels? (I'm not sayin Rawkus is one of em, I just wanna know ppl's thoughts)
i think there are just two distinct sides here arguing.
one side that likes the Rawkus label releases and remember those tunes at the club or on college radio and maybe even on commercial mixshows in some areas that had major impact sales due to radio.
the other side saw the label for what it was. it was all based on marketing and driven sales behind acts that a lightweight name in the game and were able to be pushed up into the light of more than just college radio djs and your typical neighborhood street nigga.
both sides are right in their own views.
i remember when we were promoting the label we were told to hit up the colleges and where white/urban kids were congregating... thats the truth. they wanted us to do clubs that played rap music but to give flyers and promos to non-black kids... thats the truth. these things werent weird to us because this happens all the time.
as the rap director of this magazine i was given kick-backs and special treats in the mail for helping to write or push an artist.
thats the industry at that time... so, forgive me cause im high, but thats why i see both sides views and somewhat agree with both.
i didnt care for rawkus as a whole. they had two or three tunes that i liked but thats about it.
"black on both sides" was a big hit for people who didnt know rap music that well and didnt know UTD and where mos came from. i know cats who still rock that and swear by it. it really isnt that stellar of a record... at all. this is coming from a dude whos been listening to rap music since 1980. then again thats just my opinion...
anyway... thats what i was thinking about when i was outside smoking...
yeh but isn't the success of any record label these days pretty much solely based on their marketing talents, whether its grassroots, or million dollar ad campaigns? I think that Rawkus was a great marketing machine on the grassroots level, but overspent on that level... They underestimated the impact of making sure your record got the spins it needed on the radio in various markets. I think this ultimately lead to their downfall, by dropping most of their marketing budget on grassroots and ignoring radio play... I mean most labels earn alot of their residuals from the radio, and if you aren't getting the spins... well you are losing out on a large chunk of change.
Me, Jonny and the rest of the thread's ostensible hatters have all acknowledged liking some of the stuff Rawkus put out. And nobody's saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad, only that it rendered the music less important than those who would claim the label was rap's salvation seem to believe it was/is.
Well, like I said, that wasn't directed at anybody in particular, and I should have been clearer: I was speaking of the wider perception of Rawkus, not just that evinced in this thread.
One time, I got in trouble with a then-current girlfriend because I was expressing--strongly and at some length--all kinds of retroactive exasperation with an ex-girlfriend; "You know, if you can still get that upset about her, I can only think that on some level she still matters to you." And she was right, of course. The fact that this thread (for example) is now on the far side of Page 5, with as much of that length due to the cons as to the pros, makes me think that The Rawkus Issue--if not necessarily Rawkus itself--remains pretty important, even (especially?) to the detractors. And although you may not be "saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad," I'm sure you're aware that plenty of folks say exactly that, and that the audience in question and the critics of said audience are almost invariably very, uh, demographically similar. And that's the part that has me curious: Why doesn't it ever seem to be black folks bending over backwards to dissuade Rawkus's fans of the label's importance? I mean, maybe there are in fact instances of this (whether in print or elsewhere), but I certainly haven't come across them.
oh man are you serious? No, it is not important to "us detractors". My life, my listening habits, and the current state of rap would be the same if Rawkus was never around.
Blacks ar not "bending over backwards" because they had the please of not knowing about Rawkus because that shit was not marketed to them.
Why doesn't it ever seem to be black folks bending over backwards to dissuade Rawkus's fans of the label's importance?
I have a theory on that. I think it's the same reason that you rarely see black folks bending over backwards to dispel the 4 Elements shit: Because they're busy already being black and have less to prove than us white dudes.
Why doesn't it ever seem to be black folks bending over backwards to dissuade Rawkus's fans of the label's importance?
I have a theory on that. I think it's the same reason that you rarely see black folks bending over backwards to dispel the 4 Elements shit: Because they're busy already being black and have less to prove than us white dudes.
I'd agree a hundred percent. Likewise, I think that much of the vehemence on both sides of this Rawkus shit has as much if not more to do with folks having something to prove than with the label's inherent relevance or irrelevance.
....
And if "busy already being black" isn't someone's location by the time I get back from lunch, I'll eat my hatt.
-Rawkus was a more important indie than No Limit, Suave House, etc because it appealed to people who didn't previously like rap.
Dude, you can make the argument (more convincingly in my opinion) that Rawkus was less[/b] important than these indie lables precisely "because it appealed to people who didn't previously like rap."
Blacks ar not "bending over backwards" because they had the please of not knowing about Rawkus because that shit was not marketed to them.
I don't have the inside story of how Rawkus was marketed. But in my experience, lots of non-whites who did not attend college loved Rawkus, in DC and Philly at least. Most of the dudes I knew loved Rawkus records, particularly 1-9-9-9, Simon Says and almost all of Soundbombing 2. I'm only basing this on my experience in the hip hop community. I'm not a label dude, I don't know the industry. I know a small group of DJs and rappers who I befriended when I was freestyling regularly around the turn of the millenium. In this decidedly non-backpacking milieu, people respected the label and many of its artists.
Blacks ar not "bending over backwards" because they had the please of not knowing about Rawkus because that shit was not marketed to them.
I don't have the inside story of how Rawkus was marketed. But in my experience, lots of non-whites who did not attend college loved Rawkus, in DC and Philly at least. Most of the dudes I knew loved Rawkus records, particularly 1-9-9-9, Simon Says and almost all of Soundbombing 2.
"Loved" and "Currently bending over backwards to prove Rawkus's long lasting importance" are 2 different things.
I'll admit to having referred to a number of Rawkus 12"s as "crap," but I don't think that there's been a label in the history of hip-hop with more than three releases that I wouldn't make the same observation about.. i.e., that they issued some crap.
Me, Jonny and the rest of the thread's ostensible hatters have all acknowledged liking some of the stuff Rawkus put out. And nobody's saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad, only that it rendered the music less important than those who would claim the label was rap's salvation seem to believe it was/is.
Rillz,
You're Hatting. That's what you do. I have no idea who you hang out with or how you know what you claim to know about the tastes of black people, poor people, thugs or whoever you say comprises the real hip hop community. But it's telling that in your rush to be rap's authenticity police, you are compelled to attack me or anyone else who does not share your definition of downness. I'm just speculating here, cause again I don't know you, but a reasonable man would conclude that you have deep insecurities about your own cultural identity. No one else on this board is making blanket assumptions about people based on whether they like Rawkus.
Not to get in the middle of this hatting exchange but some of us have certainly made assumptions about you based on your inclusion of Rawkus records in the 10 best hip-hop albums of all time...
I'll admit to having referred to a number of Rawkus 12"s as "crap," but I don't think that there's been a label in the history of hip-hop with more than three releases that I wouldn't make the same observation about.. i.e., that they issued some crap.
Me, Jonny and the rest of the thread's ostensible hatters have all acknowledged liking some of the stuff Rawkus put out. And nobody's saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad, only that it rendered the music less important than those who would claim the label was rap's salvation seem to believe it was/is.
Rillz,
You're Hatting. That's what you do. I have no idea who you hang out with or how you know what you claim to know about the tastes of black people, poor people, thugs or whoever you say comprises the real hip hop community. But it's telling that in your rush to be rap's authenticity police, you are compelled to attack me or anyone else who does not share your definition of downness. I'm just speculating here, cause again I don't know you, but a reasonable man would conclude that you have deep insecurities about your own cultural identity. No one else on this board is making blanket assumptions about people based on whether they like Rawkus.
Vitamin
I'm not sure whether your claim of membership in "the hip-hop community" (whatever that is) or your claim to speak for "the reasonable man" is more snicker-worthy, Young Stephen.
Comments
Agreed, but how many people on this board here own a Master P record and how many buy records that lean towards the Mos Def / Kweli / KRS / Kool G Rap / Monch / Ghostface / Skillz school of rap ?
OLSKI:
SOULSTRUT SHOULD NEVER BE A BAROMETER.
2). You mentioned SoulSpazm as a bigger indie, explain.
Likes:
-Reflection Eternal - Album (To me, Rawkus' best release) - That shit even had Rick James on it - c'mon now.
-Mos Def - Univesal Magnetic / If you can huh, you can hear it 12"
-Reflection Eternal - Fortified Life 12"
-Dilated Peoples "Sound Bombin" (Bangin' - I heard Evidence playing the instrumental of this in FatBeats (LA) some years back when it was on Vermont - BTW, isn't the sample from the Bar-Kays?).
-Pharoah Monch "The Light" (Diamond killed the beat)
Overall Dislikes (One or two tracks we cool but the rest sucked):
-BlackStar LP - to me, on of the most over-rated albums ever (I will give it up for respiration tho - damn!).
-Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
-Lyricist Lounge 1 & 2
-Company Flow (all of it)
-Everything else they put out
Peace,
DJ "muthafuggin" Cire
acctually that was Dave Chappelle
But this is SS and everybody's talking about what he likes and what not. And it is a barometer for many members.
I didn't mentioned SoulSpazm as a bigger indie. What i was trying to say is that Rawkus had and impact on many indie labels that came after, big or small.
Well, like I said, that wasn't directed at anybody in particular, and I should have been clearer: I was speaking of the wider perception of Rawkus, not just that evinced in this thread.
One time, I got in trouble with a then-current girlfriend because I was expressing--strongly and at some length--all kinds of retroactive exasperation with an ex-girlfriend; "You know, if you can still get that upset about her, I can only think that on some level she still matters to you." And she was right, of course. The fact that this thread (for example) is now on the far side of Page 5, with as much of that length due to the cons as to the pros, makes me think that The Rawkus Issue--if not necessarily Rawkus itself--remains pretty important, even (especially?) to the detractors. And although you may not be "saying that the audience Rawkus targeted and connected with rendered their music bad," I'm sure you're aware that plenty of folks say exactly that, and that the audience in question and the critics of said audience are almost invariably very, uh, demographically similar. And that's the part that has me curious: Why doesn't it ever seem to be black folks bending over backwards to dissuade Rawkus's fans of the label's importance? I mean, maybe there are in fact instances of this (whether in print or elsewhere), but I certainly haven't come across them.
thoughts in no particular order:
-Rawkus was a more important indie than No Limit, Suave House, etc because it appealed to people who didn't previously like rap. I'm not downplaying the importance and influence of all the down south and west coast indies that went platinum in their home state. but I'd venture to say there weren't a whole lot of people who didn't like rap, then they heard "Ghetto D" and were like "oh shit, now I get it!" Rawkus made hardcore fans out of casual observers, the kids who owned "Low End Theory," "Illadelph Halflife" and maybe "Labcabincalifornia," but thought rap in general was too violent and misogynistic for their sensibilities. "Soundbombing II" opened the door to rap for a whole bunch of people. it created millions (?) of fans. whether or not that was a good look is up for debate.
likes/dislikes:
-"7XL" is possibly the greatest song to come out on Rawkus.
-"Fantastic Damage" was better than "Funcrusher Plus." dust off the candelabra.
-B1's "Verbal Affairs" with that huge Large Pro beat!!!
-L-Fudge's "What If!?!!" except for Kweli's pro-life bullshit.
-yeah pretty much anything DJ Spinna touched.
-what are the 10 most important hip-hop labels? (I'm not sayin Rawkus is one of em, I just wanna know ppl's thoughts)
yeh but isn't the success of any record label these days pretty much solely based on their marketing talents, whether its grassroots, or million dollar ad campaigns? I think that Rawkus was a great marketing machine on the grassroots level, but overspent on that level... They underestimated the impact of making sure your record got the spins it needed on the radio in various markets. I think this ultimately lead to their downfall, by dropping most of their marketing budget on grassroots and ignoring radio play... I mean most labels earn alot of their residuals from the radio, and if you aren't getting the spins... well you are losing out on a large chunk of change.
oh man are you serious? No, it is not important to "us detractors". My life, my listening habits, and the current state of rap would be the same if Rawkus was never around.
Blacks ar not "bending over backwards" because they had the please of not knowing about Rawkus because that shit was not marketed to them.
I have a theory on that. I think it's the same reason that you rarely see black folks bending over backwards to dispel the 4 Elements shit: Because they're busy already being black and have less to prove than us white dudes.
What is important to me is college white kids feeling that the Rawkus movement was important. Not Rawkus itself.
FACE IT> RAWKUS DID NOT IMPACT RAP. Noone cares.
You take 100 people. Ask if they know def jam. ask if they know rawkus.
come on now.
I'd agree a hundred percent. Likewise, I think that much of the vehemence on both sides of this Rawkus shit has as much if not more to do with folks having something to prove than with the label's inherent relevance or irrelevance.
....
And if "busy already being black" isn't someone's location by the time I get back from lunch, I'll eat my hatt.
Dude, you can make the argument (more convincingly in my opinion) that Rawkus was less[/b] important than these indie lables precisely "because it appealed to people who didn't previously like rap."
-e
I don't have the inside story of how Rawkus was marketed. But in my experience, lots of non-whites who did not attend college loved Rawkus, in DC and Philly at least. Most of the dudes I knew loved Rawkus records, particularly 1-9-9-9, Simon Says and almost all of Soundbombing 2. I'm only basing this on my experience in the hip hop community. I'm not a label dude, I don't know the industry. I know a small group of DJs and rappers who I befriended when I was freestyling regularly around the turn of the millenium. In this decidedly non-backpacking milieu, people respected the label and many of its artists.
"Loved" and "Currently bending over backwards to prove Rawkus's long lasting importance" are 2 different things.
------
I figured you would already be full from lunch, so you can save the hatt for later.
Rillz,
You're Hatting. That's what you do. I have no idea who you hang out with or how you know what you claim to know about the tastes of black people, poor people, thugs or whoever you say comprises the real hip hop community. But it's telling that in your rush to be rap's authenticity police, you are compelled to attack me or anyone else who does not share your definition of downness. I'm just speculating here, cause again I don't know you, but a reasonable man would conclude that you have deep insecurities about your own cultural identity. No one else on this board is making blanket assumptions about people based on whether they like Rawkus.
Vitamin
I'm not sure whether your claim of membership in "the hip-hop community" (whatever that is) or your claim to speak for "the reasonable man" is more snicker-worthy, Young Stephen.
That was my shit