Isn't it the conceding candidate's "unofficial" duty to become the catalyst for mending the country back as one (however possible that actually is..) regardless of their feelings?
Not saying I didn't like McCain's speech, quite the contrary but I'm just recalling Kerry's half-assed mending speech last election. Maybe that was due to the shitty way he lost?
Regardless, with the last 3 years as the exception, I applaud the guy for his lifetime of duty to this country. He just let the vipers influence him. And you can tell he realized that last night on that stage.
He will forever be linked with all the stupid nasty things he did in this campaign, but that is not who he is.
Yet he was the leader of the party and he couldn't control anyone. If he truly valued running a clean campaign, he would have done it as the party's leader. That makes him one of two things: a shit leader or someone who didn't value running a clean campaign.
A few weeks ago I started a McCain appreciation thread. And I still mean what I said in it. To add:
He never used Jeremiah Wright. He didn't use Obama's Aunt's immigration status. (Which would have been a Nov surprise for anyone else.) When he saw the hate his campaign was creating he capped it.
He meant all the nice things he said last night.
He will forever be linked with all the stupid nasty things he did in this campaign, but that is not who he is.
pleassseeeeeeee. the only reason mccain didn't use wright (although the party did, just ask pa voters about all the wright ads in the past few weeks) is because he made a pledge not to after the controversy first died out. at the time, someone probably advised him he would look like he was taking the moral high ground.
as stated before, he would have done whatever it took to get elected. how do you explain Ayers & Rashid Khalidi? he didn't cap hate, what campaign were you watching? the opposite is true.
whether he agrees with the nasty things said in his campaign are irrelevant....its "his campaign".
ummm ... I saw Jeremiah Wright commercials every 3 minutes for the past week. Just because there was no "I'm John McCain and I approve this message" tags doesn't make me believe that his campaign was a) not aware of the commercials and b) could not have stopped them.
ummm ... I saw Jeremiah Wright commercials every 3 minutes for the past week. Just because there was no "I'm John McCain and I approve this message" tags doesn't make me believe that his campaign was a) not aware of the commercials and b) could not have stopped them.
ummm ... I saw Jeremiah Wright commercials every 3 minutes for the past week. Just because there was no "I'm John McCain and I approve this message" tags doesn't make me believe that his campaign was a) not aware of the commercials and b) could not have stopped them.
I didn't know.
Sorry you missed them LW, they were running hot and heavy in PDX in the last week of the campaign. I am so glad I have a TIVO and just fast forwarded through them...
ummm ... I saw Jeremiah Wright commercials every 3 minutes for the past week. Just because there was no "I'm John McCain and I approve this message" tags doesn't make me believe that his campaign was a) not aware of the commercials and b) could not have stopped them.
I didn't know.
Sorry you missed them LW, they were running hot and heavy in PDX in the last week of the campaign. I am so glad I have a TIVO and just fast forwarded through them...
I don't have cable. All I saw in my limited tv watching was endless Merkley/Smith ads.
ummm ... I saw Jeremiah Wright commercials every 3 minutes for the past week. Just because there was no "I'm John McCain and I approve this message" tags doesn't make me believe that his campaign was a) not aware of the commercials and b) could not have stopped them.
I didn't know.
Sorry you missed them LW, they were running hot and heavy in PDX in the last week of the campaign. I am so glad I have a TIVO and just fast forwarded through them...
I don't have cable. All I saw in my limited tv watching was endless Merkley/Smith ads.
And frankly the Merkley/Smith ads were puke worthy on their own. I am taking about both sides. I am not going miss the commercials now that the election is over.
ummm ... I saw Jeremiah Wright commercials every 3 minutes for the past week. Just because there was no "I'm John McCain and I approve this message" tags doesn't make me believe that his campaign was a) not aware of the commercials and b) could not have stopped them.
I didn't know.
Sorry you missed them LW, they were running hot and heavy in PDX in the last week of the campaign. I am so glad I have a TIVO and just fast forwarded through them...
I don't have cable. All I saw in my limited tv watching was endless Merkley/Smith ads.
And frankly the Merkley/Smith ads were puke worthy on their own. I am taking about both sides. I am not going miss the commercials now that the election is over.
he looks and sounds like he knows that what happened is what's best for the country and the world.
I posted this in the election highlights thread:
" Re: Your favourite Election Night moments?
onetet Said:
honestly, for all the high points one of the most memorable and emblematic moments of last night was the gathering at McCain's HQ. the crowd's ferocious booing at the very mention of Obama's name -- in a humble and respectful context, no less -- says a lot.
IMO, McCain was visably dismayed by these reactions, and may have had an epiphany about just how low his campaign was aiming in the final days to reach what his people may have hoped was a "silent majority" of small-minded people living in bigotry and fear. People with that mentality are going to have a hard 4-8 years -- and, I hope, will spend that time learning and growing."
This is all so ignorant.
Enlighten us
The notion that McCain thinks that Obama is better for the country and the world is patently hilarious.
Who wouldn't boo the opponent of your candidate when your guy just lost? It doesn't say anything more than they were upset and frustrated with the result.
We had some equally sore winners posting last night -- at least one.
thanks for calling me ignorant on the internet!
it was the ferocity of the boos that was unsetteling. that ferocity may simply be the booing that comes when an opponent's name is mentioned. to my mind, the vehemence of it showed how effective the Republicans' labeling of Obama as "socialist," "terrorist sympathizer," etc has been. constrast that with the respectful reaction to McCain's name dropped in Obama's speech.
McCain probably did not think that Obama is better for this country in this or any moment, but fwiw to me he seemed humbled during this speech... and seemed to have a sense that his defeat represented something larger, that the country and possibly even the world wanted an end to the Old Boys' Club that has been American politics for too long.
My Obama enthusiasm is about 1/10 that of most people on this board (I consider myself to the left of him on most issues), so if I came across as an Obama fan boy in my earlier post, there's some irony there that hopefully we can all have a lil chuckle over.
There are concession speeches and there are concession speeches.
Compare McCain's concession speech with Hillary Clinton's after the primaries were done. She spent more time focused on what she accomplished in her losing effort. It was "gracious" in a politically demanded way but compare that with McCain and talking about Booker T going to the White House for dinner. McCain (or his speechwriter but whatever) recognized, acknowledged and genuinely seemed to embrace the historic moment for what it was. McCain put his campaign through the prism of what was good for America and while his whole "Country First" motto might seem incredibly facile (which it kind of is), to me, his speech last night was actually walking-the-walk.
It's not like I expected him to say, "let's keep the fight on, f*ck Obama!" but McCain seemed humble and sincere and those were qualities really lacking from his campaign trail.
I also think folks give Palin 1) way too much credit for McCain's loss and 2) way too much shit. She deserves to get clowned - richly - but ultimately, she was even more victimized by this whole process than McCain was. The main diff though is that Palin's young enough and green enough that her political future is less certain. McCain will likely fade away like Bob Dole (hopefully sans E.D. commercials). But while I have no love for Palin and would NEVER want to see her anywhere near a national ticket again, McCain and his people mismanaged almost every part of her campaign, beginning with her selection to begin with. Clearly, she should never been chosen to begin with; she wasn't ready for prime time but I can't fault her for taking the call. She fucked up on her own but it's sort of like blaming a Little Leaguer for f*cking up in a MLB game - the coach deserves even more of the blame for even putting her in the game to start with).
And ultimately, Palin dragged down the ticket - no question - but the single biggest thing that destroyed McCain's candidacy (besides himself) was the economy. If things were going swimmingly, I could easily imagine that McCain/Palin would have pulled far closer than they did or even won, despite all her failings. All of that was very well put. Major co-sign.
I was touched by McCain's concession speech and felt really bad for him. Back during his rally when he was calming and correcting that woman with the crazy hair who said "I'm afraid of Obama he's an arab", the look on his face was so obviously conflicted and even he appeared to be shaken by the hatred and ignorance that his negative campaign had spread. Like i've said many times here before when not in election mode, he seems like a decent person and a rare breed of republicans that would extend an olive branch to get things done. He and his campaign strategists made some epic bad decisions though and I don't think he will ever forget that. I can't help but think of that line from JFK's inauguration speech:
"Those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside."[/b]
I was touched by McCain's concession speech and felt really bad for him. Back during his rally when he was calming and correcting that woman with the crazy hair who said "I'm afraid of Obama he's an arab", the look on his face was so obviously conflicted and even he appeared to be shaken by the hatred and ignorance that his negative campaign had spread. Like i've said many times here before when not in election mode, he seems like a decent person and a rare breed of republicans that would extend an olive branch to get things done. He and his campaign strategists made some epic bad decisions though and I don't think he will ever forget that. I can't help but think of that line from JFK's inauguration speech:
"Those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside."[/b]
I'm sure if Shakespeare was alive today, Bush would be his greatest...b,121b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/talib-doodoo.gif" alt="" 21
i agree with that first post by the conservative in this thread, that if anything this election is going to push the GOP further to the right. there is a weird kinda fantasy a lot of ppl have that the 'religious right' is some kinda fringe, which after 8 yrs of GWB should be disproven. that IS the party - thats the grassroots and ive said this before but in a democracy just being the dude talking on tv a la george f will or chris buckley doesnt make one the person actually organizing the party - the nomination process proved this, when the establishment couldn't get romney nominated even with millions of dollars.b,121b,121need more evidence? im experiencing such incredible schadenfreude at this post by malkin:b,121b,121a href="http://michellemalkin.com/2008/11/05/the-mccain-campaigns-classless-cowards/" target="_blank"1http://michellemalkin.com/2008/11/05/the-mccain-campaigns-classless-cowards//a1b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121We're tracking down all the people from the McCain campaign now whispering smears against Governor Palin to Carl Cameron and others. Michelle Malkin has the details.b,121b,121We intend to constantly remind the base about these people, monitor who they are working for, and, when 2012 rolls around, see which candidates hire them. Naturally then, you'll see us go to war against those candidates.b,121b,121It is our expressed intention to make these few people political lepers.b,121b,121....b,121b,121Don't make us add you to our list. Do you really want to be next to Kathleen Parker in the leper colony?b, 21b, 21h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121should be an entertaining couple of years.b,121b,121b,121as for odub, while i do sympathize w/ what was done to palin, i think that her electoral significance was pretty great in the end - lots and lots of center-right voters were extremely put off by his selecting her, and it seemed to contradict the central narrative premise of his campaign to that point. in some ways i think it hurt him more than the economy, and in some ways was directly tied to WHY the economy hurt him so badly (vs. if he had picked romney for veep).b,121b,121b,121and finally, as per usual i think kvh is talking out his ass. i thought the concession speech was very smart and even somewhat brave considering the type of crowd he was dealing with
Quote:/font1h,121b,121'Hero' doesn't mean what you think it does. b, 21b, 21h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Hilarious. So which one is the mortal and which one the deity?b, 21b, 21Barbara or George H.W.?b,121b,121b,121Or are we talking about this:b,121b,121 img src="http://www.maddclearvideos.com/aheroaintnothinbutasandwich.jpg"1
you are an english teacher right? george w. bush is a privileged oaf who has fallen ass backwards into success throughout his whole lifetime. i think your pedantic teacher sensibilities are confusing the term "tragic hero" with "lucky bastard". if i were feeling generous, i might say Bush is an idiot savant for politics if it weren't for his handlers being responsible for every successful fear mongering strategy he undertook as POTUSb,121b,121whereas john mccain, though i am reluctant to call a tragic hero, i might say has a tragic flaw and that was doing whatever it takes to be POTUS at the expense of his reputation. why? because here is a guy who was respected by both republicans and democrats alike for shit like campaign finance reform, for his unselfish service and sacrifices during the Vietnam War, for taking the high road during the 2000 primaries when he was smeared ruthlessly by Rove and Bush and vowed never to play that nasty game. That didn't work out for him in 2000, so what did he do? He scrapped his highly publicized morals and hired the same jerkoffs who smeared him-- the ones responsible for spreading rumors that he had an illegitimate black child, that went after his wife and claimed she was a shady drug addict-- for his OWN CAMPAIGN. IF you think that Dubya deserves more sympathy than McCain and that Dubya is a tragic hero, you may need to stop smoking your hoity-toity crack
Quote:/font1h,121b,121you are an english teacher right? george w. bush is a privileged oaf who has fallen ass backwards into success throughout his whole lifetime. i think your pedantic teacher sensibilities are confusing the term "tragic hero" with "lucky bastard". if i were feeling generous, i might say Bush is an idiot savant for politics if it weren't for his handlers being responsible for every successful fear mongering strategy he undertook as POTUSb,121b,121whereas john mccain, though i am reluctant to call a tragic hero, i might say has a tragic flaw and that was doing whatever it takes to be POTUS at the expense of his reputation. why? because here is a guy who was respected by both republicans and democrats alike for shit like campaign finance reform, for his unselfish service and sacrifices during the Vietnam War, for taking the high road during the 2000 primaries when he was smeared ruthlessly by Rove and Bush and vowed never to play that nasty game. That didn't work out for him in 2000, so what did he do? He scrapped his highly publicized morals and hired the same jerkoffs who smeared him-- the ones responsible for spreading rumors that he had an illegitimate black child, that went after his wife and claimed she was a shady drug addict-- for his OWN CAMPAIGN. IF you think that Dubya deserves more sympathy than McCain and that Dubya is a tragic hero, you may need to stop smoking your hoity-toity crack b, 21b, 21h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121hahaha img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/game.gif" alt="" 21
Quote:/font1h,121b,121you are an english teacher right? george w. bush is a privileged oaf who has fallen ass backwards into success throughout his whole lifetime. i think your pedantic teacher sensibilities are confusing the term "tragic hero" with "lucky bastard". if i were feeling generous, i might say Bush is an idiot savant for politics if it weren't for his handlers being responsible for every successful fear mongering strategy he undertook as POTUSb,121b,121whereas john mccain, though i am reluctant to call a tragic hero, i might say has a tragic flaw and that was doing whatever it takes to be POTUS at the expense of his reputation. why? because here is a guy who was respected by both republicans and democrats alike for shit like campaign finance reform, for his unselfish service and sacrifices during the Vietnam War, for taking the high road during the 2000 primaries when he was smeared ruthlessly by Rove and Bush and vowed never to play that nasty game. That didn't work out for him in 2000, so what did he do? He scrapped his highly publicized morals and hired the same jerkoffs who smeared him-- the ones responsible for spreading rumors that he had an illegitimate black child, that went after his wife and claimed she was a shady drug addict-- for his OWN CAMPAIGN. IF you think that Dubya deserves more sympathy than McCain and that Dubya is a tragic hero, you may need to stop smoking your hoity-toity crack b, 21b, 21h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Tell 'em why you mad, A*****y!
Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21b, 21need more evidence? im experiencing such incredible schadenfreude at this post by malkin:b, 21b, 21http://michellemalkin.com/2008/11/05/the-mccain-campaigns-classless-cowards/b, 21b, 21/font1Quote:/font1h, 21b, 21We're tracking down all the people from the McCain campaign now whispering smears against Governor Palin to Carl Cameron and others. Michelle Malkin has the details.b, 21b, 21We intend to constantly remind the base about these people, monitor who they are working for, and, when 2012 rolls around, see which candidates hire them. Naturally then, you'll see us go to war against those candidates.b, 21b, 21It is our expressed intention to make these few people political lepers.b, 21b, 21....b, 21b, 21Don't make us add you to our list. Do you really want to be next to Kathleen Parker in the leper colony?b, 21b, 21h, 21
b, 21b, 21 b, 21b, 21h, 21b, 21b, 21Operation Leper! No, seriously, that's what they're calling it. Wingnut blogs have teamed up to form a strike team to take out all those batsards who are saying mean things about that f*cking idiot Palin. b, 21b, 21If I made up something like that, people would say I'm being too cartoonish with my depiction.
Comments
Not saying I didn't like McCain's speech, quite the contrary but I'm just recalling Kerry's half-assed mending speech last election. Maybe that was due to the shitty way he lost?
Regardless, with the last 3 years as the exception, I applaud the guy for his lifetime of duty to this country. He just let the vipers influence him. And you can tell he realized that last night on that stage.
Yet he was the leader of the party and he couldn't control anyone. If he truly valued running a clean campaign, he would have done it as the party's leader. That makes him one of two things: a shit leader or someone who didn't value running a clean campaign.
pleassseeeeeeee. the only reason mccain didn't use wright (although the party did, just ask pa voters about all the wright ads in the past few weeks) is because he made a pledge not to after the controversy first died out. at the time, someone probably advised him he would look like he was taking the moral high ground.
as stated before, he would have done whatever it took to get elected. how do you explain Ayers & Rashid Khalidi? he didn't cap hate, what campaign were you watching? the opposite is true.
whether he agrees with the nasty things said in his campaign are irrelevant....its "his campaign".
ummm ... I saw Jeremiah Wright commercials every 3 minutes for the
past week. Just because there was no "I'm John McCain and I approve
this message" tags doesn't make me believe that his campaign was a) not
aware of the commercials and b) could not have stopped them.
I didn't know.
Sorry you missed them LW, they were running hot and heavy in PDX in the last week of the campaign. I am so glad I have a TIVO and just fast forwarded through them...
I don't have cable. All I saw in my limited tv watching was endless Merkley/Smith ads.
And frankly the Merkley/Smith ads were puke worthy on their own. I am taking about both sides. I am not going miss the commercials now that the election is over.
that sounds like a death metal band.
it was the ferocity of the boos that was unsetteling. that ferocity may simply be the booing that comes when an opponent's name is mentioned. to my mind, the vehemence of it showed how effective the Republicans' labeling of Obama as "socialist," "terrorist sympathizer," etc has been. constrast that with the respectful reaction to McCain's name dropped in Obama's speech.
McCain probably did not think that Obama is better for this country in this or any moment, but fwiw to me he seemed humbled during this speech... and seemed to have a sense that his defeat represented something larger, that the country and possibly even the world wanted an end to the Old Boys' Club that has been American politics for too long.
My Obama enthusiasm is about 1/10 that of most people on this board (I consider myself to the left of him on most issues), so if I came across as an Obama fan boy in my earlier post, there's some irony there that hopefully we can all have a lil chuckle over.
Often what you hear is a stage boo and part of the fun of being in a crowd that feels like you do.
In McCain's concession speech we heard very angry boos and shouting. To me it sounded violent.
There are concession speeches and there are concession speeches.
Compare McCain's concession speech with Hillary Clinton's after the primaries were done. She spent more time focused on what she accomplished in her losing effort. It was "gracious" in a politically demanded way but compare that with McCain and talking about Booker T going to the White House for dinner. McCain (or his speechwriter but whatever) recognized, acknowledged and genuinely seemed to embrace the historic moment for what it was. McCain put his campaign through the prism of what was good for America and while his whole "Country First" motto might seem incredibly facile (which it kind of is), to me, his speech last night was actually walking-the-walk.
It's not like I expected him to say, "let's keep the fight on, f*ck Obama!" but McCain seemed humble and sincere and those were qualities really lacking from his campaign trail.
I also think folks give Palin 1) way too much credit for McCain's loss and 2) way too much shit. She deserves to get clowned - richly - but ultimately, she was even more victimized by this whole process than McCain was. The main diff though is that Palin's young enough and green enough that her political future is less certain. McCain will likely fade away like Bob Dole (hopefully sans E.D. commercials). But while I have no love for Palin and would NEVER want to see her anywhere near a national ticket again, McCain and his people mismanaged almost every part of her campaign, beginning with her selection to begin with. Clearly, she should never been chosen to begin with; she wasn't ready for prime time but I can't fault her for taking the call. She fucked up on her own but it's sort of like blaming a Little Leaguer for f*cking up in a MLB game - the coach deserves even more of the blame for even putting her in the game to start with).
And ultimately, Palin dragged down the ticket - no question - but the single biggest thing that destroyed McCain's candidacy (besides himself) was the economy. If things were going swimmingly, I could easily imagine that McCain/Palin would have pulled far closer than they did or even won, despite all her failings.
All of that was very well put. Major co-sign.
"Those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside."[/b]
Rings so true in Mccain's case.
He is.